While the stereotype may be accurate, there are plenty of decent boomers (just as there are some decent millennials). In general, most humans of all ages suck.

12/6/2018 1:26:38 PM

More grist:

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/06/boomers-are-blame-aging-america/592336/

6/24/2019 5:43:58 PM

I’m gonna have to diverge from that author just a bit.

Sure Boomers screwed us. When he starts talking about federal budget issues, he’s on point. I think housing zoning issues have complicated origins, but that’s an acceptable argument to me.

Requiring a higher degree for jobs? That’s a function of the changing nature of work in the US. There could be some blame for Boomers here (voting for globalization policies), but in general I’d argue a ton of that was inevitable. Licensing for professionals? Yes, some of this is bullshit and should be repealed, some of it is necessary. In no way do I think it’s a significant factor in why genX/millennials are suffering.

So the article is half good, but I also think guy is shoehorning his general libertarian rants into Boomer hate.

6/25/2019 5:31:28 PM

I think that post demonstrates just how self-centered your position on all of this is. The author's point about degrees/licenses are pretty good, but you reject it (even while you are otherwise eager to grab onto anti-boomer lines) because you have a higher degree and want to think well of that investment.

The "changing nature of work"...please. If anything, the changing nature of work is laying bare how unnecessary degrees are. I think of all of the friends I made at NC State who didn't graduate because they didn't need to - they make a damn sight more than I do working for tech companies smart enough not to care about whether you have the piece of paper. (Tech companies founded, generally, by Gen-Xers and others who came after the generation that established our whole understanding of what college was all about)

A very large proportion of jobs that say they "require" a college degree don't. It's that simple. If millions of young people hadn't been told that a degree was necessary (still less that the "college experience" was key to being a complete adult), they wouldn't be saddled with crippling debt loads. So yeah, I think it's a significant factor.

Unfortunately it's also an unfixable one. There's no government policy that's going to make 2-year degrees or other vocational education as respectable or desirable as a 4-year degree; it would require a cultural shift that's unlikely given the precedent established and nurtured by baby boomers. Then, too, we're not much better. There's some glimmers of hope that we might not be as devout in our degree-worship, but that's not because our generation is intrinsically better; we just got out of college at a moment of economic recession, high debt, and fortuitous technological changes. Still, I'm not convinced that the flexibility shown by GenX/Millennial-owned companies is going to be durable.

6/27/2019 7:58:18 AM

Quote :

"I think that post demonstrates just how self-centered your position on all of this is. The author's point about degrees/licenses are pretty good, but you reject it (even while you are otherwise eager to grab onto anti-boomer lines) because you have a higher degree and want to think well of that investment. "

He doesn't make a good point, his argument is completely unsupported. He shows us that degrees and licenses have increased in the US, then immediately jumps to the conclusion that this benefits Boomers and hurts millenials. How? He doesn't show that older workers are more credentialed, he doesn't show that older workers hold more degrees. He doesn't show the licensing and degree requirements only affect millenials and not Boomers.

Anecdotally, I have gotten jobs because I was willing to sit through a training, take a cake walk test, and get some meaningless credentials. My older, "more experienced" Boomer competition turned out to be barely literate and struggled with how to fill out a scan-tron form. I just don't think licensing or degrees is ALWAYS to the advantage of older workers, its double edged for all workers.

Quote :

"The "changing nature of work"...please. If anything, the changing nature of work is laying bare how unnecessary degrees are. I think of all of the friends I made at NC State who didn't graduate because they didn't need to - they make a damn sight more than I do working for tech companies smart enough not to care about whether you have the piece of paper. (Tech companies founded, generally, by Gen-Xers and others who came after the generation that established our whole understanding of what college was all about)"

You're proving my point IMO. More power to your buddies for not getting a formalized degree and still making everything work for them, but the fact remains that they got significant 2ndary education if they went to NCSU and got some skills that landed them in the tech world. 50 years ago they could have dropped out of HIGH SCHOOL, got a decent factory job, and there's a chance they would STILL be making more money than you. Dropping out of high school in 2019 is a death sentence (on average). That's the changing nature of work, the tech economy requires far more education than the Boomer's manufacturing economy and their just isn't a way around it.

Even the shittiest degree is more than a piece of paper, it represents an education. Even though your buddies didn't cross the finish line and get the formalized piece of paper, they still got some of the associated education. The data we look at and our system is imperfect because we measure higher education through degrees rather than actual skills or knowledge (b/c its easier). The tech industry deserves kudos for judging people based on skills and knowledge rather than a degree, but I also don't think you should judge businesses for wanting educated workers and simplifying hiring evaluations by just up front asking for a degree.

Quote :

"A very large proportion of jobs that say they "require" a college degree don't. It's that simple. If millions of young people hadn't been told that a degree was necessary (still less that the "college experience" was key to being a complete adult), they wouldn't be saddled with crippling debt loads. So yeah, I think it's a significant factor."

Alternatively, Boomers could have continued funding higher education at the state level at the same per pupil rates as when they were in school. Then Millenials would still be the most educated generation, would be trained and ready to tackle the tech economy, and their school debt would be exponentially lower.

Quote :

"There's no government policy that's going to make 2-year degrees or other vocational education as respectable or desirable as a 4-year degree;"

Is it possible this is because, on average, a worker with a 4 year degree is better than a worker with a 2-year degree?

6/27/2019 9:43:44 AM

Quote :

"Is it possible this is because, on average, a worker with a 4 year degree is better than a worker with a 2-year degree?"

I'm not sure what to think about that. I often feel like those people who were in 2 year degrees are individuals whose parent's couldn't afford college, and likely didn't even promote it as a need. They went to work right out of high school and then later started school at community college. This is actually a pretty big trend with CCs and is why the median age is between 26 and 30 and why the on-time and the overall graduation rates are abysmal compared to lengthier 4 year degrees, even though the programs are only two years.

That situation to me doesn't scream better or worse worker. Also, better or worse is hard to define because it is largely situationally dependent, so I'd need to understand what you mean more. I'd be a shitty ass janitor, even though I hold graduate degrees, because I'd be unmotivated. Someone who went to community college may be a worse worker in my role, but perhaps only because they don't have the breadth of knowledge required for my specific role. However, they may be equally good at other jobs that require a four year degree, so as cold calling or data entry.

It'd be hard for me to jump and say that last point is true, even though I do respect your other points.

6/27/2019 1:43:08 PM

“Better” is a crappy descriptor in this case, you’re right. Maybe “more valuable in The eyes of our economic system,” is more along the lines of what I was looking for.

And I’d like to point out that having degrees, or a certain job, or whatever doesn’t make you a better person, or more valuable as a human, nor that people without degrees are somehow stupid or useless.

However, in our current system, workers are compensated based on the value they produce (theoretically, that’s the model most of us somewhat accept). Statistically, degree holders have higher wages, across the board. Therefore, degree holders are more valuable workers.

6/27/2019 5:00:02 PM

^^ sounds like you never attended a CC (let alone worked for one) but that's alright. Plenty of people have some pretty big misconceptions about CCs.

It's true that CCs have lower graduation rates than 4 year colleges (~30%), but for students who successfully matriculate from a 2year to a 4year, the success rate is often higher than students who go straight from HS to a 4 year.

Also worth noting is that the mission of CCs isn't the same as universities/4 year colleges- plenty of people take classes for fun, or to earn certificates to enhance their job prospects. Some students are there to learn a valuable trade (plumber/electrician/x ray tech/etc). Some students are there because they have disabilities and need tons of support which is harder to find at a giant 4 year.

In California, the nation's largest CC system, a huge number of students finish their GEs at a local CC and live at home with parents/family and then transfer to the UCs/CSUs because it's so much cheaper and more efficient. These are people that got into Stanford, Berkeley, UCLA, etc but just couldn't afford it for four years.

[Edited on June 27, 2019 at 7:57 PM. Reason : .]

6/27/2019 7:56:38 PM

More Boomer bashing:

Quote :

""Kids today" may be the Dumbest Generation, but the parents and teachers of the Dumbest Generation are themselves so dumb they not only don't know the information themselves, they don't even know what knowledge exists that is important to pass on. And I can prove it: the above book What Do Our 17 Year Olds Know? was written in 1987. Those dumb 17 year olds are 40 now. Say what you want about the "elitist" conclusions of The Closing of the American Mind but it was also written in 1987, about 1987 college kids-- who are now adults. The adults are dumb, all right; but they don't know it. They have a unsettling feeling that something is lacking. The general narcissism and insecurity of parents today-- even/especially the "good" parents, is visible in their parenting. At a birthday party, the kids are running Lord of The Flies while their parents completely ignore them, socializing; meanwhile, they hover over them at the store, at the playground-- "no bicycle without a helmet." They secretly read their kid's email and Facebook accounts, but have never once read the kid's math book. "Oh, ha ha, I don't remember all that math!" Idiot, could you at least pretend it's important?"

https://thelastpsychiatrist.com/2008/10/the_dumbest_generation_is_only.html

[Edited on July 7, 2019 at 4:23 PM. Reason : A]

7/7/2019 4:22:57 PM

very curious to know what brought you to an article that’s 11 years old

7/7/2019 5:12:36 PM

^ found it in 2014 and became a bit obsessed. I've read many of the articles multiple times, particularly if they involve narcissism or advertising. It has some insights that really changed my thinking, particularly about politics.

There's a good talk he gave which is hard to find about narcissism that's a distillation of the blog content which is quicker to get than reading all the posts about it. I think there are still links to it on reddit.

7/7/2019 5:25:08 PM

Progressive Boomers Are Making It Impossible For Cities To Fix The Housing Crisis
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/as-cities-try-to-fix-housing-boomers-are-radicalizing-to-stop-progress_n_5d1bcf0ee4b07f6ca58598a9
saving to read later

7/9/2019 8:45:51 AM