Quote :

"supposedly had a flashy offense, so put his name up in the rafters. "

i think everybody hated his "UCLA offense" and nobody wants Gott's name in the rafters

11/15/2017 5:12:19 PM

ftr, lowe put together the first s16 team, and herb put better teams together than the lacey team. Lomg term success is a better indication of coaching than throwing together one good weekend of basketball.

11/15/2017 5:42:10 PM

Eh if I had to choose I’d go with Gott over Herb. Luckily for us we aren’t actually in basketball hell and we have what appears to be a great coach now in Keatts. I will still miss Giglio. He knew the nctstate fan feels.

11/15/2017 6:22:44 PM

Quote :

"put together the worst NC State basketball team I've ever seen. Worse than any Sidney Lowe or Les Robinson garbage."

Cool sample size of one.

Quote :

"But he told jokes that simpletons could understand and supposedly had a flashy offense, so put his name up in the rafters"

Cool strawman.

11/15/2017 6:26:22 PM

Not sure why we are arguing Herb versus Gott. Obviously both improved upon their predesecer but Herb took over an even worse situation and left us in better shape than Gott did.

Also if Yurtseven wasn't highly recruited, people wouldn't be making such a big deal. To hear some people in the crowds and online, you would think he is Neil Fingleton bad. He's averaging 9.7 PPG and 5.0 RPG and 2 BPG.

11/15/2017 7:14:49 PM

y'all forgetting how boring and bad some Herb games/teams were. 10 point first halves and shit.

11/15/2017 7:25:38 PM

Quote :

"Herb took over an even worse situation and left us in better shape than Gott did. "

11/16/2017 1:05:29 AM

it’s the truth

looking forward to your counter argument, though

[Edited on November 16, 2017 at 1:21 AM. Reason : .]

11/16/2017 1:14:43 AM

Didn't Herb's last season include him having a team that beat unc for the first time in like eight years?

Gott did way better than that after Lowe gave us several teams who couldn't beat anyone.

11/16/2017 6:57:05 AM

Neither hung a banner worth shit, all while FSU, Miami, ND, and UVA have been able to in the past decade.

11/16/2017 7:29:09 AM

Herb was 8-38 against Duke and UNC according to wikipedia. Gott was 5-19 against Duke and UNC (if I can count correctly). Not much of a difference (17% for Herb, 21% for Gott). EDIT: Lowe was 3-12 against UNC and Duke, good for 20%.

Gott's highs were higher then Herb's high's, but his lows were lower than Herb's lows. If Herb made 1 more sweet 16 (we lost by 2 to Vanderbilt in 2004 and 3 to UCONN in 2002), this wouldn't be a discussion worth having. He brought a ton of excitement back to the program after Lowe, but he was trending downwards, and I doubt he could have done much better this year if he was given another year (assuming DSJ goes pro and Maverick still transfers).

Then again, I became a state fan during Lowe's years (I was a freshmen in fall of 07, so I missed Lowe's best year and suffered through the rest) so my glasses aren't tainted by watching the Princeton offense for 10 years. I'd probably feel differently if I was a state fan all my life.

[Edited on November 16, 2017 at 9:22 AM. Reason : added Lowe win% against UNC and Duke for yucks]

11/16/2017 9:05:37 AM

all you have to do is compare rosters and the seasons previous to when the coaching change took place

it’s not really that close

and Herb took over a program that was in shambles. Gott took over a talented roster.

11/16/2017 9:21:00 AM

Quote :

"Gott's highs were higher then Herb's high's,"

Not really sure that is true either. Herb finished 2nd in ACC regular season once and took the team to the ACC title game three times. It's also worth noting that Herb's last 5 teams with the "Princeton Offense" averaged nearly what Gott's teams did in PPG. They of course gave up less PPG on defense compared to Gottball. As much shit as people talk about the Princeton, it really was what turned our team around when he brought Larry Hunter in as assistant.

11/16/2017 10:46:59 AM

Remember when our jorts fanbase wished that Herb would be more like the more successful and exciting Chuck Amato?

11/16/2017 11:33:42 AM

the real argument should be lowe vs gott.

11/16/2017 11:38:03 AM

Quote :

"Herb finished 2nd in ACC regular season once and took the team to the ACC title game three times. "

Herb coached in a 9 team ACC with a 3 day* conference tournament. I'd hope he'd make the tournament finals more often.

[Edited on November 16, 2017 at 11:59 AM. Reason : . ]

11/16/2017 11:58:20 AM

Making the finals is actually easier now for higher seeds.

[Edited on November 16, 2017 at 12:11 PM. Reason : But gott didn't get higher seeds]

11/16/2017 12:10:41 PM

The Gott supporters are only looking at the 1st 2 rounds of the ncaa tournament and nothing is going to change that. they will always count sweet 16s as some sort of qseudo championship and ignore the other 95% of his time here.

Anyone who looks at an entire body of work knows Gott was an awful coach and nowhere near Herb.

11/16/2017 12:12:47 PM

Quote :

"Gott's highs were higher then Herb's high's"

Was speaking more about 2 sweet 16's (vs 1 for HS) and the optimism around the program surrounding the first half of the 2012-2013 year (ranked top 10 to begin the year, was ranked through end of January, beat Duke and UNC within 10 or so days). I don't think we reached a stretch like that with Sendek (please correct me if I'm wrong, I didn't actively follow NC State closely back then).

This was obviously a bit of a "paper tiger" moment as the later the season progressed, we got worse, lost rematches to both Duke and UNC, dropped out of the top 25, and lost opening weekend.

The 3 ACC tourney finals are very impressive, forgot about those.

Just to be explicitly clear, Herb > Gott > Lowe.

11/16/2017 12:15:45 PM

Quote :

"Making the finals is actually easier now for higher seeds."

Yeah, winning 3 games is actually easier than winning 2 games

11/16/2017 12:29:50 PM

It is when the teams you're playing have played multiple games in a row.

11/16/2017 12:32:17 PM