Can we please just forget about Herb?

1/28/2008 12:46:50 PM

i don't think we need to forget about him. after all, evaluation of improvement requires a comparison data point, which would be herb. what we really need is for people to stop being homers and look at the facts objectively and make civil discourse. which of course isn't going to happen on tww, so...

Can we please just forget about Herb?

1/28/2008 12:50:42 PM

^ what he said.

1/28/2008 12:59:51 PM

Herb will probably get crushed on Thursday vs. UCLA. If he somehow manages to win this one, the media/blogs will def. throw some more barbs towards State...

1/28/2008 1:02:05 PM

Doubtful. To my knowledge not many have been critical of NC State due to Herb's relative success at Arizona State. For some reason people on here have the need to be vindicated over something... I can't figure out what that is though considering he wasn't fired.

As far as close games... The reality is we actually did pretty well in close games under Herb... as we do under Sid...

1/28/2008 1:04:09 PM

i think some people here just want to see herb fail because he did "nothing" for our program. they forget the two double OT games against clemson and miami (both away) and other close games like that that we did win. i guess they'd feel better about running him off if it were, in their minds, more justified. (meaning he's winning elsewhere and is maybe not as bad a coach as they thought he was)

[Edited on January 28, 2008 at 1:27 PM. Reason : ]

1/28/2008 1:10:43 PM

RPI Rankings as of last night

SOS Polls
Rank School W-L RPI Rank Rating AP USA
1 Tennessee 16-2 0.6842 2 0.6140 3 5
2 Memphis 19-0 0.6715 34 0.5620 1 1
3 Kansas 19-0 0.6714 36 0.5618 2 2
4 North Carolina 19-1 0.6713 11 0.5851 5 4
5 Duke 17-1 0.6551 37 0.5604 4 3
6 Michigan St 18-2 0.6495 29 0.5660 10 10
7 Arizona 13-6 0.6494 1 0.6395
8 Drake 16-1 0.6454 74 0.5406 22 23
9 Georgetown 16-2 0.6454 44 0.5535 9 9
10 Washington St 17-2 0.6352 77 0.5371 6 6

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

11 Xavier 17-4 0.6341 18 0.5749 23 22
12 UCLA 17-2 0.6338 32 0.5630 8 7
13 Vanderbilt 17-3 0.6307 56 0.5493 14 13
14 Texas 15-3 0.6305 20 0.5732 12 12
15 St. Mary's 16-2 0.6299 84 0.5351 24
16 Mississippi 15-3 0.6282 59 0.5484 17 15
17 Dayton 14-4 0.6209 27 0.5666 16 19
18 Pittsburgh 15-4 0.6180 41 0.5582 13 17
19 Wisconsin 16-3 0.6139 73 0.5415 11 11
20 Marquette 13-4 0.6139 30 0.5642 21 20

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

21 Ohio State 14-6 0.6137 9 0.5902
22 Butler 19-2 0.6122 156 0.5031 15 14
23 Connecticut 14-5 0.6075 24 0.5690
24 Oklahoma 14-5 0.6071 16 0.5766
25 Rhode Island 17-3 0.6064 137 0.5118
26 Massachusetts 13-6 0.6063 13 0.5794
27 Clemson 14-5 0.6057 15 0.5771 25
28 South Alabama 15-3 0.6056 111 0.5250
29 Stanford 16-3 0.6044 110 0.5261 20 21
30 Gonzaga 15-5 0.6024 33 0.5625

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

31 Indiana 17-2 0.6011 126 0.5175 7 8
32 Miami (FL) 14-4 0.5997 60 0.5473
33 Baylor 15-3 0.5996 75 0.5398 25
34 West Virginia 14-5 0.5965 38 0.5600
35 Kent St 16-4 0.5955 115 0.5221
36 Louisville 15-5 0.5948 39 0.5597
37 Southern California 13-6 0.5941 26 0.5688
38 UNLV 14-4 0.5928 72 0.5426
39 Kansas St 13-4 0.5921 43 0.5567
40 Syracuse 14-7 0.5912 6 0.5955

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

41 Notre Dame 14-4 0.5911 83 0.5357
42 Florida 18-3 0.5877 154 0.5037
43 Saint Joseph's 12-5 0.5876 81 0.5363
44 Texas A&M 15-4 0.5875 104 0.5272 18 16
45 Illinois St 14-5 0.5874 91 0.5322
46 Ohio 13-6 0.5873 87 0.5341
47 Arkansas 14-5 0.5864 64 0.5455
48 BYU 15-5 0.5844 106 0.5271
49 North Carolina St 13-6 0.5811 51 0.5511
50 Providence 12-7 0.5806 22 0.5697

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

51 Oregon 12-8 0.5806 14 0.5790
52 Seton Hall 14-6 0.5802 58 0.5485
53 Mississippi St 14-5 0.5784 76 0.5390
54 Georgia Tech 10-9 0.5763 8 0.5930
55 Creighton 13-5 0.5760 89 0.5329
56 Oral Roberts 13-5 0.5740 162 0.5011
57 VCU 15-4 0.5729 174 0.4964
58 Southern Illinois 10-10 0.5726 4 0.6011
59 Purdue 15-5 0.5722 124 0.5193
60 George Mason 14-6 0.5720 120 0.5210

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

61 Villanova 13-5 0.5717 113 0.5235 19 18
62 Sam Houston 11-3 0.5715 181 0.4943
63 San Diego St 13-6 0.5697 88 0.5336
64 Cleveland St 12-7 0.5683 70 0.5432
65 Temple 9-9 0.5678 5 0.5982
66 Duquesne 13-5 0.5663 144 0.5097
67 Texas Tech 10-8 0.5660 12 0.5827
68 New Mexico 16-5 0.5651 175 0.4964
69 Miami (OH) 8-10 0.5641 3 0.6040
70 Virginia Tech 12-8 0.5637 65 0.5452

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

71 Florida St 13-8 0.5634 31 0.5635
72 Wake Forest 12-6 0.5633 119 0.5211
73 Stephen F. Austin 11-3 0.5627 259 0.4623
74 Houston 15-3 0.5596 203 0.4823
75 Charlotte 13-6 0.5582 108 0.5264
76 Western Kentucky 14-5 0.5576 184 0.4924
77 Minnesota 12-6 0.5569 109 0.5263
78 Wright St 12-6 0.5561 117 0.5218
79 Missouri 12-8 0.5558 47 0.5519
80 Akron 14-5 0.5556 193 0.4873

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

81 Nevada 11-7 0.5547 112 0.5241
82 Maryland 12-8 0.5546 17 0.5765
83 Utah 10-7 0.5530 68 0.5441
84 Boston College 12-6 0.5509 50 0.5513
85 CS Northridge 13-4 0.5499 270 0.4589
86 Marist 14-7 0.5493 158 0.5030
87 Davidson 12-6 0.5490 166 0.5001
88 Washington 12-8 0.5477 62 0.5470
89 Valparaiso 12-7 0.5476 140 0.5105
90 Arizona St 14-5 0.5462 151 0.5060 24

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

91 Cornell 9-5 0.5446 180 0.4949
92 California 11-7 0.5433 42 0.5577
93 Georgia 10-6 0.5432 98 0.5288
94 Alabama 12-8 0.5429 45 0.5533
95 UC Santa Barbara 14-5 0.5429 219 0.4766
96 Appalachian St 11-7 0.5422 159 0.5020
97 Indiana St 9-9 0.5411 69 0.5432
98 UW Milwaukee 11-8 0.5410 93 0.5314
99 Iowa State 11-8 0.5409 71 0.5431
100 Chattanooga 11-7 0.5407 90 0.5323

1/28/2008 3:24:14 PM

well I never thought we'd be ranked in basketball beneath clemson and miami

1/28/2008 3:27:09 PM

108 Virginia 11-7 0.5377 78 0.5371

Might as well post the only ACC team not in the top 100 (and the only one ranked lower than Arizona State).

1/28/2008 3:29:42 PM

sheeeit. GT below us?

there goes the credibility of this poll.... they certainly look like top ACC team thus far....

1/28/2008 3:32:28 PM

Poll Credibility Watch

1/28/2008 3:38:19 PM

^ i think it needs its own thread!

1/28/2008 3:41:04 PM

Quote :

"sheeeit. GT below us? there goes the credibility of this poll.... they certainly look like top ACC team thus far...."

Why? Because they beat US?

They also lost to UNC-Greensboro, Winthrop and Georgia...

1/28/2008 3:46:41 PM

they're also 10-9

1/28/2008 3:49:17 PM

for what it's worth, pomeroy has us as last in the acc:

Quote :

"Duke 16-1 5-0 .9842/3 North Carolina 19-1 4-1 .9707/6 Clemson 15-4 3-3 .9491/20 Maryland 12-7 2-3 .8863/45 Miami FL 14-4 2-3 .8759/51 Virginia Tech 12-8 3-3 .8714/55 Georgia Tech 9-9 3-3 .8502/61 Virginia 11-6 1-4 .8455/62 Florida St. 13-8 2-4 .8441/63 Boston College 12-6 3-2 .8345/69 Wake Forest 12-6 2-3 .8113/79 North Carolina St. 13-6 2-3 .7655/92 "

1/28/2008 4:12:18 PM

Since we seem to know how to win when we're underdogs, then I hope they keep us rated at the bottom at everything from here to eternity

1/28/2008 4:20:02 PM

Pomeroy also called us beating GT and losing to FSU

1/28/2008 4:55:48 PM

^ & ^^^ pomeroy has been dicking us all year

[Edited on January 28, 2008 at 4:57 PM. Reason : .]

1/28/2008 4:56:53 PM

Quote :

"Since we seem to know how to win when we're underdogs, then I hope they keep us rated at the bottom at everything from here to eternity"

not this shit again

1/28/2008 5:04:28 PM

i appologize.

1/28/2008 5:05:54 PM

pomeroy ratings are weird.

1/28/2008 5:11:20 PM

ECU is #207 (5-10 are you serious), UNO is #167 (12-7)

Those two loses especially ECU are killing our NCAA chances. Villanova struggling to win now also has hurt our rank with them being our key OOC win. Our schedule rank will keep going up playing in the ACC so there is still a good hope at making the dance this year.

1/30/2008 1:40:34 AM

http://northcarolinastate.scout.com/a.z?s=178&p=2&c=724601

RALEIGH, N.C. -- NC State's Sidney Lowe met with the media today to discuss the game against Duke. Here is a sample of what the Wolfpack head coach had to say.

On if a veteran like Gavin Grant can help the younger guys prepare for the Cameron Indoor Stadium environment:
“We thought about that, it’s going to be an experience for those guys, no question about it. We hope Gavin can shed some light on it in terms of what to expect and not get too wrapped up in the fans because they’re there. They’re loud and they’re great. They support their team and they know they’re important to the way they play, and they certainly try to get in the heads of the other teams and sometimes they do that. Our guys are just going to have to concentrate, block that stuff out and show some poise while they’re over there.”
On what impressed him the most with the win over Florida State:
“Our toughness. Both physically and mentally. Making those plays when we had to, making those stops, diving for loose balls, guys not relaxing at all. That stands out in my mind – the fact we were playing tough basketball. They came back at us and tried to put it on us and we responded to the challenge.”

On if he had stressed the importance of playing another conference rival in Duke:
“At this point, if I have to tell them then they haven’t been listening. Anytime you’re playing in the same conference of another school and they’re right down the road, those are big games. The four schools down here and the three in the triangle, it’s always big. When Carolina plays Duke it’s big, Carolina plays State, State plays Duke, it doesn’t matter. It’s big, it’s exciting. I think that’s why the fans are the way they are, because they feel the same thing. I don’t think I should have to tell them that, I think they should know that.”

On if there’s any extra motivation trying to win back-to-back road games:
“We’re playing against a very, very good basketball team and a very tough environment. You certainly want to say things and get your guys excited and pumped up to play. But again, if you can’t get motivated for this game then there’s a problem. Coach V, coach Sloan didn’t have to get us motivated to play Wake or Duke or Carolina. It just didn’t happen. They didn’t need to do that. If you don’t understand that, if you don’t feel that, then you’re in the wrong place. You’re not understanding what it means to everyone around here whether you’re a Duke fan, a State fan, a Carolina fan or a Wake fan. If you don’t embrace that and take that challenge, you don’t want to be here, you don’t want to play at N.C. State.”

On if the experiences at Clemson and Carolina will help guys like Hickson and Gonzalez:
“They certainly understand it better. If they think back to the environment at Carolina and think about how they felt, whether they were nervous, trying too hard, moving too fast, they’ll use that to make the adjustment tomorrow night and understand you have to be under control and poised. There’s pressure there to make the right decisions. I think they’d be more comfortable. We’ve been at Carolina, at Clemson, we’ve had some tough games at home. Again, it’s another environment but I think they’ll be OK. I think they understand now what they have to do.”

On the importance of the forwards not turning the ball over:
“Crucial. In fact, yesterday in practice I had to stop and I made that point to our threes fours and fives. They can’t lead us in turnovers. When they lead us in turnovers that hurts us a great deal. They don’t handle the ball enough to lead us in turnovers. What has been poor decision-making, trying to do too much, or not being strong enough with the basketball. We can’t do that over there. Your point guards, they’re going to have a couple just because of the pressure, but we can’t have three, four and five leading us in turnovers.”

On the importance of getting the ball inside:
“[Duke] understands as well as any team in the country who they are. By that I mean they know they’re not big inside so they fight you, they front you, they trap you and then they force you to make the right decisions every time and a lot of teams can’t do that. It’s important that we’re patient with it. That we’re patient, move the ball around, continue to move inside, don’t force it but you have to be strong with it. We certainly have to look to go there and if it’s not there right away we have move the ball around and be strong with it and again, don’t turn it over.”

On how much time he spent working with the point guards in practice once Farnold Degand went down:
“We spent a lot of time with them. It’s more just conversations, talking about the game, talking about the thought process and what they’re trying to do. And I talk a lot to them about control. Just about being in control, being a leader and understanding that they’re the captain out there basically and whatever they say goes. Just to not listen to the other guys, it’s really not important. They’re supposed to listen to you. If they make a call, it’s not wrong, it’s the call that they make so now we just need to execute it. Just trying to give them that confidence that it’s on them. They can do whatever as far as making decisions and calls they make And then obviously in practice sometimes we have to stop and look at their reads and make sure they understand the different options they have with the basketball.”

On if starting the ACC in two harsh environments is paying off for the point guards:
“I guess since those games are over I can say yeah. I wouldn’t have said that before. It could have helped them because if you look at them whether it was the first two games of the ACC season or the last two, playing at Carolina and at Clemson was going to be tough. So maybe it was good to let them get a feel for it early and hopefully it’s helped. I think it’s helped.”

On what about Duke (namely DeMarcus Nelson and Greg Paulus) he admires the most:
“I just like good basketball. I like good, tough, smart basketball players and I think those two guys are. Nelson’s been around for awhile and Paulus is a little fiery guy. He doesn’t take stuff off from anyone. Sometimes you have guys like that who you don’t really like but you admire because you don’t want to play against them. I like the way they approach the game, they’re no nonsense, they talk, they’re just fun to watch play. They’re not fun to play against but they’re fun to watch. As a basketball coach you admire guys who play the game the right way and play with passion.”

1/30/2008 3:55:17 PM

beautiful gameplan

1/31/2008 9:46:54 PM

Dear sid,

apparently your halftime speech sucked donkey balls.

try not to give that one again.

thanks,

wolfpack nation.

[Edited on January 31, 2008 at 11:01 PM. Reason : ]

1/31/2008 11:01:06 PM

its just that you can't ask him to not be outcoached by one of the greatest coaches of all time.

1/31/2008 11:03:08 PM

Way to get beat by 30 in the 2nd half

1/31/2008 11:04:01 PM

Our defense is one of the most unorganized in the country.

We have no idea how to defend picks, sets, swing passes, high/low attacks, etc

Our offense devolves into nigger ball (i.e. one on one) the minute we lose our momentum.


Not much silver lining to take away from this game. We showed that talentwise we have enough to compete but that we dont know what to do

1/31/2008 11:09:41 PM

i really dont get why Costner didnt get the start in the second half
i would have started Javi, Grant, Big Ben, Costner and Hickson

i would really like to see them all on the floor at once a few times. i know, for foul reasons its a really big gamble but that would be a slick line up ...

1/31/2008 11:10:21 PM

Why doesnt he wear the red jacket anymore again?

1/31/2008 11:11:12 PM

This was a bad game for Sid's credibility.

It showed that we actually have talent to compete with the top teams in the country and that we are severely underachieving.

2/1/2008 9:47:16 AM

Remember how bad we were without Atsur?

Remember how we became a whole lot better when he came back?


Well this season.... it's like being without Atsur.... only Atsur isn't coming back.

Help us John Wall

2/1/2008 9:51:32 AM

Coaches job to have a serviceable point guard ready (especially when two of the coaches are two of the best point guards in the program's history).

I'd like to say Farnold would be making a difference...but he was there for the UNO, ECU, and Michigan State debacles. And Javi and Marques weren't horrible last night.

We need to get off the point guard excuses.

2/1/2008 9:55:34 AM

they werent horrible by any means last night but our guards combined basketball IQ still dont equal Atsur's baskball IQ

2/1/2008 10:05:22 AM

Quote :

"Coaches job to have a serviceable point guard ready "

Hard to do in your 2nd year....especially when the coach before you didn't believe in point guards

We have a point guard... he's just a freshmen and got abused last night by a veteran player

2/1/2008 10:12:40 AM

I don't think we're losing because of point guard play anymore. We're never gonna get a star performance out of them or anything but they're no longer liabilities. We're losing because we play stretches of atrocious defense and only 1-2 guys show up offensively every night.

2/1/2008 10:21:15 AM

^ We have a ton of turnovers becuase we don't have anyone who can deliver the ball reliably and handle pressure.

Javi is improving, but we need a quick guard that can give us an offensive threat. You watched Causey (sp?) and Paulus take Javi or Marques straight to the basket or get easy jumpshots. They don't respect those guys shot on the offensive side either.

I'm not saying all of our problems lie from lack of a PG, but it makes a huge difference. That position is a liability for us right now both offensively and defensively

On top of that, I will admit we have major chemistry issues.

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 10:33 AM. Reason : ]

2/1/2008 10:33:03 AM

Meh, I've seen much better and more experienced point guards fall apart @Duke. You can pretty much throw that game out if you're talking about turnovers, but even still, 7 total from that position isn't terrible. You can still win with that. Yeah, their defense sucks but so does everyone else's. I'm just saying it's time to stop putting the blame on one position.

2/1/2008 10:45:23 AM

^ Not to mention Brandon has absolutely dissapeared.

If we could get McCauley, Fells, Grant, Costner, and Hickson scoring in a game we'd be tough to beat.

Problem is, like you said, we get 1 or two of them scoring in double figures one game and two completely different ones the next

I think we'll improve as the year goes on like we did last season. It seems we're playing better together with each game and Javier, at least, (Not sure about Marques...he's iffy) seems to be getting more comfortable and confident.

[Edited on February 1, 2008 at 11:02 AM. Reason : ]

2/1/2008 11:01:45 AM

Why are people referring to RPI & Pomerory Ratings as "polls"?

2/1/2008 11:06:59 AM

Until Fells becomes more comfortable attacking the basket, he will continue to disappear against teams that overplay the wings.

2/1/2008 11:21:10 AM

Quote :

"Hard to do in your 2nd year....especially when the coach before you didn't believe in point guards"

Chris Motherfucking Wright.

I wish that punk had given Sidney a chance. We could be pretty solid with him right now.

2/1/2008 1:21:08 PM

^ yeah probably

2/1/2008 1:24:02 PM

^^ Wright was nearly signed and sealed for Sidney.

He had given him word that he was going to sign, he just had a change of heart

2/1/2008 1:27:21 PM

The bastard would have started from day 1 here but instead is on the bench for GTown.

NCSU could have been his team, he could have led us to the tourney and became a star as a frosh.

2/1/2008 1:30:26 PM

Hard to say, but he would've definitely made a difference. Hard to fault HIM on the move though.

2/1/2008 1:30:39 PM

Per the 'insiders' he actually wanted to come to NC State... at the last minute his parents wanted him to stay closer to home.

Per these same 'insiders', he had actually recommitted to Sidney and his father called Sidney to apologize 2 nights before signing day saying the family decided it would be better for Chris to stay closer to home (Which was supposedly the family wishes, not Chris')

2/1/2008 1:45:41 PM

I don't know how it is in the NBA, but I get the feeling that Sid is not as detail-oriented about running his program as top college coaches.

2/2/2008 9:39:54 PM

Sidney needs to bring in an assistant who is a defensive specialist immediately.

2/3/2008 1:16:03 PM

^I've always wondered why more coaches don't do that (sort of like having an OC/DC on your bench)

Skip Prosser comes to mind.

2/3/2008 1:19:23 PM