8/27/2010 5:05:14 PM

If you think al Qaeda is the only problem, then you simply have no idea what you're talking about.

I take your larger point, though. It is definitely important to draw distinctions between Islamists and moderate, modern, secular Muslims, who do, I think, make up the majority of the Muslim world.

[Edited on August 27, 2010 at 5:30 PM. Reason : ]

8/27/2010 5:30:20 PM

1. McDanger admits here to being a troll:

Quote :

"troll thread"

McDanger

message_topic.aspx?topic=595066&page=18

Why does anyone care what his position on anything is?

2. McDanger admits that today's Islam is more violent than today's Christianity:

Quote :

"The roots of the religion are different, and yes, NOWADAYS Christians happen to be by and far less violent than Muslims."

McDanger

Yet, McDanger reveals his bias in favor of Islam:

Quote :

"Islam hasn't quite degenerated to the level of Christianity yet -- the main mode and emotion of Christianity being pity."

message_topic.aspx?topic=412249

3. Concerning punctuation:

Quote :

"If you ever read an academic journal worth a damn, you'd realize you're wrong."

McDanger

LOL! The self-proclaimed "smartest guy in the room" doesn't even know the basics. One doesn't turn to an "academic journal" concerning punctuation, you know-it-all. One checks a style manual and, to a lesser extent and for finer points, a usage guide. Even the APA Guide to Preparing Manuscripts for Journal Publication is a style guide.

Hey, kids, try this: The next time you have to write a paper in a college class, ask your professor what "academic journal" will be the authority under which the paper is written--and watch him or her look at you like you're stupid. If you ask what style manual to go by, you'll get the proper response.

4. You claim to suckle at the teat of Mother Math, McDanger, yet you offer nothing along these lines to prove your assertion that everyone who opposes the mosque near Ground Zero is a bigot. In contrast, I have presented evidence that this is in fact not the case, nor could it be.

I submit that it is not only statistically improbable that all who oppose the mosque near Ground Zero are bigots but it is statistically impossible. You have taken the position that all who oppose this mosque are bigots: prove it.

5. I think 392 said it best; he writes:

Quote :

"McDouche: 'anything that I think is good and that other countries already have is a right....IT JUST HAS TO BE!!' :retard: common sense: 'um, no it's not. rights are universal, come from "god" or nature, and don't contradict other rights.' :truth: McDouche: 'That's not how you argue!! Therefore I win. Debate over.' :smug:""

392

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You were wrong here:

Quote :

"Sorry to break it to you hooks, but many people on this board would have little issue placing you firmly in the 'bigot' category, on this or some other argument. Not that you care...."

tromboner950

That's because "many people" on this board are either wrong or just flat-out liars. Most of the rational folks here who don't even like me and/or my positions don't think I'm a bigot.

And you were right here:

Quote :

"I assume [hooksaw] meant things like breaking building codes and ordinances and whatnot... ya know, same things that every other building has to deal with to be allowed to build."

tromboner950

Correct.

[Edited on August 27, 2010 at 6:00 PM. Reason : .]

8/27/2010 5:52:25 PM

Quote :

"hooksaw: Yet, McDanger reveals his bias in favor of Islam: Quote : "Islam hasn't quite degenerated to the level of Christianity yet -- the main mode and emotion of Christianity being pity." (--McDanger)"

McDanger's quote is entirely wrong: the main mode of Christianity is certainly not pity. Most scholars and adherents would say it is love. Some might say mercy.

At an rate it makes absolutely no sense to call Christianity a "degenerate religion". This is a purely subjective phrase that was popularized by the Nazis to eradicate art and culture they found disagreeable. It has no place in discussion of religion, art, or culture except in the language of fanatics to describe other systems they consider anathema.



hooksaw, that quote in question is from 2006. while your skill with the "search" button is truly impressive ( ), how about we keep the focus on relevant issues, rather than redirection and obfuscation?

everyone here has said something ill-considered at some point. this is not a game in which you score points. you do not get a cookie for digging up an old dried up four year old turd and parading it around like you just made some profound discovery.


I'll grant you that being against the islamic center does not necessarily mean one is a racist and/or bigot. But an unsurprising majority of people against the islamic center happen to turn out to be racists and bigots when pressed.

There are perhaps entirely non-racist/bigoted reasons for opposing the building of the center. However, the ones i've heard are either misguided or incoherent, and have at their core at least some implied element of bigotry against muslims.

I, for one, do not believe you are a bigot or a racist. I have to admit that I have not read your reason for opposing the islamic center. perhaps you could summarize your main points?








[Edited on August 27, 2010 at 6:33 PM. Reason : ]

8/27/2010 6:26:00 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SgMcht-EW6I

[Edited on August 27, 2010 at 6:33 PM. Reason : ^ The ones you've "heard"? You mean, discussed at Seattle's finest communist coffeehouse? ]

8/27/2010 6:32:08 PM

I'm sorry, my work blocks social media at the firewall.

anyhow, a single YouTube link does not constitute a response. perhaps you have some commentary or background context to explain what your point is.

or ... was that a response? Maybe I'm getting rickrolled? I can't tell.



[Edited on August 27, 2010 at 6:40 PM. Reason : i dont usually go to the communist coffee houses. their espresso machines always break down]

8/27/2010 6:35:30 PM

this debate is very tired.

they should build. the constitution grants that right. it is basic. it is fundamental. it is who we are.

they (builders) should also, in my opinion, stop being so secretive about their funding. open books would take the teeth out of the dissenting opinion.

8/27/2010 10:48:18 PM

hooksaw

have you posted your reason for opposing the build? please point me to the page number, so i can understand a non-bigoted reason for opposing.

seriously. i really want to know your reason.






[Edited on August 27, 2010 at 11:05 PM. Reason : ]

8/27/2010 11:03:26 PM

Like every other deluded conservative, he is going to claim Islam isn't a peaceful religion and it was Islam that blew up the towers.

8/27/2010 11:26:01 PM

^^ Okay, but there are a number of folks here and elsewhere that are opposed to the mosque at issue--why focus on me? Since you're a recovering hooksaw derangement syndrome sufferer, you understand my concern.

My reasons for opposing the mosque near Ground Zero?

1. I think it's insensitive to the feelings of many New Yorkers and even other Americans. And we've debated "why" ad nauseum--don't ask me this again.

2. The building itself was a point of attack. It should be preserved as part of/related to the Ground Zero site.

3. I have concerns about funding of the mosque/center and about some involved. This video might help explain my concerns:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bf9LpVRwNc

If all of this is aboveboard, then why won't those involved simply answer straightforward questions about funding and related questions?

4. I have concerns as to the manner in which the building was denied landmark status.

[Edited on August 28, 2010 at 12:01 AM. Reason : .]

8/27/2010 11:50:44 PM

Quote :

"1. I think it's insensitive to the feelings of many New Yorkers and even other Americans. And we've debated "why" ad nauseum--don't ask me this again. "

Get this liberal shit out of here.

8/28/2010 12:08:37 AM

Quote :

"I think it's insensitive to the feelings of many New Yorkers and even other Americans. And we've debated "why" ad nauseum--don't ask me this again."

Bigots don't like it

Quote :

"The building itself was a point of attack. It should be preserved as part of/related to the Ground Zero site."

We all know how the terrorists want to destroy our......coats.

Quote :

"I have concerns about funding of the mosque/center and about some involved. This video might help explain my concerns: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bf9LpVRwNc"

"We throughly accosted him and dug through his financial records and found absolutely nothing interesting."

Quote :

"If all of this is aboveboard, then why won't those involved simply answer straightforward questions about funding and related questions?"

Because they don't have to. If there is something criminal it would be an issue, otherwise it's an invasion of privacy.

8/28/2010 1:09:55 AM

Quote :

"Why does anyone care what his position on anything is? "

Why doesn't anybody care what your positions are? Oh right.

You dug up a bunch of 4 year old crap I said. Congratulations. I disagree with the way in which I said a lot of that stuff but stick with a lot of it. The fact that you still can't figure out any of what I said is irrelevant to this discussion reveals just how fucking retarded you really are. Oh wow, I have some objections to the concepts present in traditional Christianity. This has WHAT to do with demanding a mosque be placed "out of sight"? God damn. It's like your brain was completed fried with alcohol the years you spent beating poors in the state pen.

I said this:

Quote :

"Islam hasn't quite degenerated to the level of Christianity yet -- the main mode and emotion of Christianity being pity."

How the fuck do you imagine this is a pro-Islam bias? I'd rather neither religion exist at all. Are you really this fucking stupid you dribbling old geezer? Clean the shit out of your diapers.

By the way only fucking losers like yourself care about style manuals. The rest of us who contribute to science will pay attention to whatever style guidelines the quality journals use, and use those. By the way, in many analytic journals (read: journals worth a damn not drafted by fucking morons like yourself), periods go outside of quotes. This is because often quotes are used to distinguish use and mention, and you don't want to include extraneous syntactic objects in your mentions.

Get bent you senile, worthless, shriveled little prick. It offends me I'm stupid enough to waste time on you.

8/28/2010 1:41:44 AM

I mean seriously you give an old fucker a chance to spend countless years "earning" a worthless MA and suddenly he thinks he's king shit-bird of the block. You are the single most pathetic piece of shit I've ever had the displeasure of happening across on the internet, ever. Even the guy on Somethingawful who was exposed to his family (by trolling board members) as having sniffed his sister's panties has more going for him than you. You are stupid, senile, clueless; a pathetic, washed up, bitter, foolish, idiotic waste of time and space. You spend the majority of your day, every day, pretending to be a conservative talk show host on an internet forum. I've never seen anything sadder than that.

You spend hours and hours combing through posts for grammar and spelling errors. You bring up posts from years ago that bear no relevance on anything and think you're scoring points, whatever that means. You have no ability to track what's being debated, how to debate it, or the content of what other people say. You're a mass of conceptual confusion, your alcohol riddled-brain unable to hold a coherent chain of thoughts.

Fuck off forever you waste. I'm done interacting with you. I'd rather spend the time I've wasted typing out responses to you on literally anything else.

8/28/2010 1:49:00 AM

8/28/2010 2:18:17 AM

Quote :

"hooksaw All American 16225 Posts user info edit post send PM view photos Show this post"

Mmm it feels so good.

8/28/2010 2:22:09 AM

^It was actually a pretty funny post, in a way.

8/28/2010 2:23:07 AM

Quote :

"Why are some of you Christophobic bigots? "

And with all the bashing they did, they never once claim that it was wrong to build a church anywhere in this country.

[Edited on August 28, 2010 at 7:32 PM. Reason : ]

8/28/2010 7:32:29 PM

^ Actually, that's yet another factually inaccurate statement or just flat-out lie.

When is it best to relocate your church?

Quote :

"'Churches that relocate tend to do so because they really have no other option,' Davis Byrd, director of LifeWay Christian Resources' Church Architecture Service, believes. Only two factors, he said, lead to that circumstance: 1) there is no available land for expansion, or 2) the environment has changed. Lack of available land often means local codes forbid further expansion. A significantly changed environment may render a church incapable of adjustment. Those changes, he said, may be ethnic, socioeconomic, residential becoming commercial, or growth that has moved in another direction."

http://www.lifeway.com/churcharchitecture/downloads/relocation.pdf

[Edited on August 28, 2010 at 7:52 PM. Reason : PS: ]

8/28/2010 7:52:20 PM

^ haha, that doesn't say what you think it says, captain comprehension.

8/28/2010 7:56:31 PM

^ Thanks for sharing. It says that churches move all the time for various reasons.

8/28/2010 8:14:43 PM

Quote :

"Fire at Tenn. Mosque Building Site Ruled Arson Federal officials are investigating a fire that started overnight at the site of a new Islamic center in a Nashville suburb. Ben Goodwin of the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department confirmed to CBS Affiliate WTVF that the fire, which burned construction equipment at the future site of the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro, is being ruled as arson. Special Agent Andy Anderson of the federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives told CBS News that the fire destroyed one piece of construction equipment and damaged three others. Gas was poured over the equipment to start the fire, Anderson said. ... "They are not a religion. They are a political, militaristic group," Bob Shelton, a 76-year-old retiree who lives in the area, told The Associated Press. Shelton was among several hundred demonstrators who recently wore "Vote for Jesus" T-shirts and carried signs that said "No Sharia law for USA!," referring to the Islamic code of law. ... "No mosque in Murfreesboro. I don't want it. I don't want them here," Evy Summers said to WTVF. "Go start their own country overseas somewhere. This is a Christian country. It was based on Christianity."

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/08/28/national/main6814690.shtml

Why can't the Muslims of Murfreesboro be sensitive to the bigoted needs of their community and get the fuck out?

8/29/2010 10:19:51 AM

^ugggggggggggggggg. makes me sad and sick

8/29/2010 10:23:54 AM

^^ Don’t you know? It’s too close to ground zero!

It’s not about bigotry!

[Edited on August 29, 2010 at 10:26 AM. Reason : ]

8/29/2010 10:26:21 AM

Quote :

""They are not a religion. They are a political, militaristic group," Bob Shelton, a 76-year-old retiree who lives in the area, told The Associated Press. Shelton was among several hundred demonstrators who recently wore "Vote for Jesus" T-shirts and carried signs that said "No Sharia law for USA!," referring to the Islamic code of law."

You'll notice how he couches his attacks on Islam in secular terms, but, on another day, promotes an overtly theocratic ideology.

Islamism and Christian Reconstructionism: two sides, same coin.

8/29/2010 12:45:15 PM

^^^^ That's obviously very wrong and should be condemned by all. But I don't remember any concerned posts from some of you when churches around the world were torched by Muslims.

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/L06376353.htm

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38686330/ns/world_news

[Edited on August 29, 2010 at 2:53 PM. Reason : Among other violent acts.]

8/29/2010 2:53:22 PM

Maybe it's because it occurred on the other side of the fucking world instead of the next state over.

8/29/2010 3:57:48 PM

I don't see you complaining about the attacks by Christians on abortion facilities, Sikhs after 9/11, etc. Bigotry is wrong in every form, but the fact that people keep bringing up this "WELL THEY STARTED IT" attitude is dumb as hell. We are supposed to be above the actions of extremists and nations that do not allow the same freedoms we do.

[Edited on August 29, 2010 at 4:20 PM. Reason : .]

8/29/2010 4:13:01 PM

^^^ Because those happened in fucking MALAYSIA AND NIGERIA. If nothing else, those third world shitholes have got bigger fish to fry. I don't know about you, but I find violence of this nature (and a lot of other shit that goes down in Africa and Southeast Asia) more shocking and more personal when it happens in the United States.

8/29/2010 4:18:57 PM

^^ If you haven't seen it, I'll gladly condemn such attacks here and now in the strongest possible terms. I'm sorry that my actual sociopolitical beliefs don't conform to your stereotype, but I'm pro-choice--always have been.

^ Why don't you care about the Christians of Malaysia and Nigeria, spöoky? Is it because they're "brown"?

8/29/2010 7:26:39 PM

When it comes to the spreading and support by hooksaw and others of bigotry in the US, it's not relevant what is happening in other countries, particularly those we expect to be shittier than us.

You're blatantly trying to distract from the despicable view you are supporting in this thread by using misdirection.

8/29/2010 8:17:10 PM

^ My views aren't despicable and I'm not a bigot. And I'll thank you not to call me one, Christophobe.

8/29/2010 8:20:13 PM

^ I didn't say you were a bigot, just that you support bigotry.

And your views are despicable, sorry. You are encouraging terrorism against the US, and that is despicable.

8/29/2010 8:23:21 PM

...by bending to their will.

8/29/2010 10:22:01 PM

Quote :

"I didn't say you were a bigot, just that you support bigotry."

Bingo.

8/30/2010 9:30:30 AM

Christophobe

Christophobe

Nanny nanny boo boo

8/30/2010 10:11:57 AM

http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2010/08/27/marginalized-folks-shouldnt-always-have-to-be-the-bigger-persons/

Quote :

"I wrote this over on Love Isn’t Enough in response to a parent who wondered how to address the impact of his aunt’s racism on his mixed-race family."

Quote :

"Ask any marginalized person and it is a safe bet that they have been told “have a sense a humor,” “don’t be so PC,” “that’s just how so-and-so was raised,” “here’s a great teaching moment, “you have to understand some people won’t be comfortable with x, y, z,” “he didn’t really mean it.” Today, when an “ism” shows its face, too much public sympathy rests with the offender and not the offended. As I’ve written before, in these times, hearing someone branded a racist is likely to upset more folks than encountered racism."

Quote :

"Cajoling and gentle prodding is often more effective than angry shouting. And women, people of color and other groups learn early to pick their battles, lest they be branded bitter, angry or over-sensitive."

Quote :

"This notion of “being the bigger person” and handling bias gently has popped up around my Google Reader this week. In a response to the ARP post, one commenter suggested the man whose white aunt had forwarded a racist “joke” to his Puerto Rican/black wife respond as follows: I’d say, “Aunt Mary, I know you didn’t mean that the way it came across, but that e-mail hurt my wife’s feelings and she felt it was kind of derogatory. I’d like you to meet my wife and son and be a part of our lives, but do you think you could not send us jokes like that or make comments like that?” The end. Give her the benefit of the doubt. She doesn’t know better, she didn’t mean to hurt you, and she is part of your family. If she keeps doing it, you can always limit contact. I responded to this commenter that statements like “kind of derogatory,” “do you think you could…” soften what was an ugly offense. And she said: In this situation, I’d give her a graceful way to save face while also letting her know that it offended the wife and would probably be offensive to other people. “I know you didn’t mean it that way, but this is the way my wife saw it …” If Aunt Mary has any sensitivity, that’s enough to make her think, “Boy. Maybe I SHOULDN’T make jokes like that. I’m so embarrassed. See, it is important that the offender be able to “save face” even if it means implying that the person of color took the joke in the wrong spirit or maybe is extra sensitive and maybe it wasn’t all that bad, but hey other people might find it offensive, so…"

Quote :

"I am all for humor and compassion, but I reject the notion that, as a woman and a black person, I need be extra compassionate and jovial in a society that often affords people like me neither of those things."

Quote :

"I believe in using the most effective means to change, but I also believe in calling “isms” for what they are and not coating them in equivocations and wishy-washy language that lets oppressors feel good about themselves. Sometimes, someone else needs to be the “bigger person.”"

Reminded me of this thread. Those who support allowing this religious community center to be built are just being oversensitive to what the people who disapprove are saying, besides they probably didn't really mean it in an offensive way.

8/30/2010 1:57:35 PM

I think it's inappropriate to put religion in the same category as immutable characteristics such as race or sexuality. Religion is a cancer, originating from ignorance, and it should not be respected or encouraged. It's a false belief, and it's caused a lot of suffering on this planet. Islam encourages the same backwards way of thinking that Christianity does, and I thought most liberals were against that.

8/30/2010 3:30:01 PM

pipe bomb explodes at florida mosque
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/florida-mosque-bombed-fbi-calls-help-nation

This one too must have been too close to ground zero. I bet hooksaw thinks these muslims weren't being sensitive enough?

8/30/2010 3:33:21 PM

Quote :

"Religion is a cancer, originating from ignorance, and it should not be respected or encouraged."

What church shit in your cornflakes?

http://www.courier-journal.com/article/20100822/FEATURES10/308220054/Somalis-want-new-mosque-in-Western-Kentucky

Religious freedom is hardly serious business when it comes to more serious issues. Such as parking.

[Edited on August 30, 2010 at 3:36 PM. Reason : .]

8/30/2010 3:34:14 PM

Quote :

"I think it's inappropriate to put religion in the same category as immutable characteristics such as race or sexuality. Religion is a cancer, originating from ignorance, and it should not be respected or encouraged. It's a false belief, and it's caused a lot of suffering on this planet. Islam encourages the same backwards way of thinking that Christianity does, and I thought most liberals were against that."

THIS

[Edited on August 30, 2010 at 3:35 PM. Reason : this]

8/30/2010 3:34:39 PM

Does anyone here care that there are any number of moderate, liberal, and conservative factions within Islam and Christianity?

Or that the guy that wants to build this mosque in Lower Manhattan is a Sufi?

8/30/2010 3:38:08 PM

Relevant to what?
I happen to hold even the moderately religious somewhat responsible for the extremists for their role in perpetuating the idea that unfounded faith is virtuous.

No, I don't think all Muslims are terrorists. No I don't think all Christians are terrorists. I wouldn't even go so far as to call them an accessory to terrorism. But the idea that believing in something with no evidence and acting on those beliefs is a destructive force on humanity that we need to discard.

8/30/2010 4:05:33 PM

Well, then maybe some day we'll all wake up and evolve past the incredibly stupid notion that somewhere, someone might believe something that's not scientifically provable.

In the meantime, we'll keep treating economics, a "social" science, as something that can be axiomatically true, right libertarians?

Ok, that was a stupid dig. But no, seriously, sometimes I think I have more faith in trees and shrubs than most humans.

8/30/2010 4:12:51 PM

Quote :

"Well, then maybe some day we'll all wake up and evolve past the incredibly stupid notion that somewhere, someone might believe something that's not scientifically provable. "

But the idea that believing in something with no evidence and acting on those beliefs is a destructive force on humanity that we need to discard.

A person can believe in whatever they want, they are free to accept any level of evidence for their beliefs that they desire. The moment they start acting on these beliefs that have no evidence and affecting others, yes they are being incredibly stupid.

I'm not sure where you were going with the rest of it, so I'll leave that there.

8/30/2010 4:21:42 PM

Quote :

"But the idea that believing in something with no evidence and acting on those beliefs is a destructive force on humanity that we need to discard."

No positive actions have ever been performed by groups acting out of inspiration derived from religious beliefs. Ever.

It's not necessary, but whether you're motivated to do something positive out of pure humanist motivations or motivations related to your faith, I don't see how it matters as long are you are helping and not harming.

8/30/2010 4:25:08 PM

All these liberals and left-wing types suddenly standing up for religion and for spending public money on places of worship--it's laughable. But as we've seen from past posts, Christianity and Judaism have not enjoyed the same support.

Here's where they "RAWR!" and try to make some half-assed distinction. Oh, and they'll probably attempt to shift the focus to me.

8/30/2010 4:29:46 PM

CUZ WE A BUNCH OF CHRISTOPHOBES AND MOSESOPHOBES DONCHA KNOW!

8/30/2010 4:31:41 PM

Yes, more than likely.

8/30/2010 4:37:06 PM

^x4: Faith has done far greater damage than good to humanity. Yes, it has done and continues to do good. But it's not enough to make up for the bad. Also, humanity would continue to do good (and bad) without it, but at least the good and bad would have a rational basis and not be at the whim of fantasy.

[Edited on August 30, 2010 at 4:41 PM. Reason : ^]

8/30/2010 4:40:07 PM