nah i ment optical out on the ps3.... but we have a receiver that can take hdmi audio in then video out.... so i guess that is the best way to do it?

ps3 ->hdmi-> reciever ->hdmi-> TV?

12/3/2007 8:46:10 PM

^thats what I have setup. My receiver has 2 hdmi in's and one out.

Xbox360 -> hdmi -> receiver -> hdmi -> tv

12/3/2007 8:47:35 PM

k, might just do that..... that or just live with some compression....

12/3/2007 8:58:27 PM

from the link on the previous page:

Quote :

"Both Dolby Digital and DTS are "lossy" compression codecs. Before making it to disc, each format selectively filters out data from the studio's digital audio master using perceptual encoding techniques. In theory, the data removed should consist mainly of either frequencies beyond the range of human hearing or frequencies that would normally be masked by other frequencies in the track anyway. If done properly, the end result should sound seamless to the listener. But if done poorly or over-compressed, the audio may lose fidelity."

now, i'm not listening to HD audio, so maybe i'm missing something (which i admit is a possibility), but i would think that they key is the bolded text...i know that half the people in this thread claim to be able to tell the difference, but since that's totally unprovable and human beings tend to lie or fool themselves when it makes them seem special, what real advantage does full PCM have? i agree that if you have the space on the disc, by all means, throw it in...but if not, 99.99% of the people buying the HDM don't have the physical capabilities to hear the difference, and half of the other 0.01% can hardly tell the difference...it's seems like a silly thing to base success of the media on

that said, i'm not pulling for one camp or the other, though i hate sony because sony hates its consumers...i just don't get the jerk session that happens when people start talking about uncompressed audio

12/4/2007 9:04:09 AM

Quote :

"now, i'm not listening to HD audio, so maybe i'm missing something (which i admit is a possibility), but i would think that they key is the bolded text...i know that half the people in this thread claim to be able to tell the difference, but since that's totally unprovable and human beings tend to lie or fool themselves when it makes them seem special, what real advantage does full PCM have? i agree that if you have the space on the disc, by all means, throw it in...but if not, 99.99% of the people buying the HDM don't have the physical capabilities to hear the difference, and half of the other 0.01% can hardly tell the difference...it's seems like a silly thing to base success of the media on"

the only people in this thread you hear yapping on about how they can hear the difference are the PS3 owners. And they tend to lie a lot to save face. So i wouldn't take anything they say too seriously. Its all part of the OMG BLU RAY OWNS YOU argument.

12/4/2007 9:29:29 AM

Quote :

"99.99% of the people buying the HDM don't have the physical capabilities to hear the difference"

yep, and then 99.99% of the people who WOULD be able to hear it, don't have the room acoustics to allow it to be audible

but don't ask wyloch about that - he's got gold plated diamond wires in his speakers

EDIT: ^ I am a ps3 owner, but I think audiophilia is a total crock .... why do you hate on ps3 owners just because we prefer bluray. kumbaya, my man, kumbaya

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 9:34 AM. Reason : s]

12/4/2007 9:32:28 AM

No one has said that you need uncompressed PCM on every disc (although if you have the space, why not), but if you're gonna call it HD media, you at least need one of the new HD audio formats like Dolby TrueHD or DTS-HD MA. Otherwise, what's the point? AC-3 was invented in the 90s for freaking laser discs. You really don't care if that continues to be the standard for HD media? Don't be ridiculous.

It's true that most people probably won't hear the difference, but then again most people use their TV speakers or some shitty $300 HTiB set up. For people who have invested in a decent audio system, any of the lossless audio tracks (TrueHD, DTS-HD MA, or PCM) is a huge step up. Is it as large or obvious as SD video to HD video? Hell no, but it's most definitely an upgrade. I really don't care if you believe me or not, but I would wager that there isn't a single person in this thread criticizing HD audio who has actually listened to it.

12/4/2007 10:12:01 AM

my room doesn't have anywhere near the acoustics necessary to support the improved audio and anyway I only have a $140 HTiB that I had to splice the wires on and probably reconnected them out of phase

12/4/2007 10:17:54 AM

Quote :

"EDIT: ^ I am a ps3 owner, but I think audiophilia is a total crock .... why do you hate on ps3 owners just because we prefer bluray. kumbaya, my man, kumbaya"

i hate on ps3 owners because they think the ps3 is God's gift to man when clearly its not. It has flaws and cons just like any other electronics. But because it has the Sony stamp its perfection.

Quote :

"but I would wager that there isn't a single person in this thread criticizing HD audio who has actually listened to it."

I used HD audio back when I had a stand-alone HD DVD player and now that I'm using the xbox add on I notice no difference. I have a high end receiver that does a great job regardless. And its not like the Xbox is a POS in audio.

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 10:36 AM. Reason : .]

12/4/2007 10:34:48 AM

does that include me? because I just like it for playing demos and blu-ray, personally.

12/4/2007 10:36:07 AM

^^Which is totally fine. It just doesn't matter to some people. However, for the people who do care and who have spent the money on their setups, they feel shortchanged anytime an HD disc comes out without a lossless audio track they can take advantage of.

This also has nothing to do with the format war or HD DVD vs. Blu-ray. Both were meant to allow for HD audio, and both have had some notable fuck ups in delivering it. Transformers has already been discussed. More recently, I've watched some Fox titles that have DTS-HD MA tracks, but there isn't a single Blu-ray player on the market (including the PS3) that can decode these tracks yet. This pisses me off as well, since we were promised DTS-HD MA decoding the PS3, but it hasn't showed up yet.

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 10:36 AM. Reason : :]

12/4/2007 10:36:07 AM

^^HAHA not you, you are the only PS3 owner that I know of that just plays demos you are in a whole new category.

Quote :

"^^Which is totally fine. It just doesn't matter to some people. However, for the people who do care and who have spent the money on their setups, they feel shortchanged anytime an HD disc comes out without a lossless audio track they can take advantage of."

the point i'm making is I have the setup for that except for the player hardware and back when I had the player hardware with those capabilities it made no difference. And I've got excellent hearing (if that matters). What I would invest in is 7.1 tracks. When I first bought my surround sound setup I went out and bought a 2nd copy of gladiator because I wanted the DTS ES. However I have yet to find any disc with 7.1. If blu ray has that or HD Audio supports that on all discs then I'll go out and buy a PS3 tomorrow.

12/4/2007 10:39:04 AM

^Most PS3 games have discrete 7.1 PCM. Also, there are a handful of Blu-ray movies that have it, but they are mostly japanese anime imports (and Waiting, of all movies to have 7.1 audio). Also, there are a lot of newer receivers that can matrix 5.1 to 7.1 using Dolby PLIIx, and the results are supposedly pretty good. On that note, didn't you have the HD-A1? If I recall, it didn't support TrueHD out of the box and didn't until firmware 2.0. Not sure if you had it long enough for that.

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 10:52 AM. Reason : :]

12/4/2007 10:48:30 AM

If you have 24-bit audio from 6 PCM, TrueHD, or DTS-HD coming out of your system, you can brag to your friends that you have the best possible sound coming out of your system. Bragging rights count for a lot when people are building a home theater system. It's a big pissing contest.

Quote :

"More recently, I've watched some Fox titles that have DTS-HD MA tracks, but there isn't a single Blu-ray player on the market (including the PS3) that can decode these tracks yet."

Right, there aren't any that will decode it internally. The Samsung BD-P1400 can stream DTS-HD directly to your receiver, as can the Toshiba HD-A35. To my knowledge, these are the only two players that can/will do this. Sometimes receivers claim they send DTS-HD "core only", but remember the "core" of DTS-HD is the plain old lossy DTS stream.

Are there any receivers on the market that can decode it?

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 10:58 AM. Reason : .]

12/4/2007 10:57:34 AM

Yeah, pretty much any HDMI 1.3 receiver can. Even the lowly Onkyo TX-SR605 I mentioned on the last page can. Which makes even more annoying that Sony hasn't released the firmware to do it on the PS3. You know if some shitty passively cooled AVR can handle the decoding, something with all the PS3s processing power should be able to do it with ease.

12/4/2007 11:01:41 AM

its not entirely a pissing contest. if one can't hear the difference between uncompressed audio and compressed audio one either doesn't listen to anything with the volume turned up much at all or they do not have equipment good enough to tell the difference.


now people like ML groupies... yeah thats just to say i spent 10k on speakers that don't sound as good as many speakers that cost half as much that won't shock you if you touch them in the wrong spot.

12/4/2007 11:12:55 AM

Quote :

"the only people in this thread you hear yapping on about how they can hear the difference are the PS3 owners. And they tend to lie a lot to save face."

lawl

i think i pretty much said i was listening to compressed

DTS actually

Quote :

"Yeah, pretty much any HDMI 1.3 receiver can. Even the lowly Onkyo TX-SR605 I mentioned on the last page can. Which makes even more annoying that Sony hasn't released the firmware to do it on the PS3. You know if some shitty passively cooled AVR can handle the decoding, something with all the PS3s processing power should be able to do it with ease."

but who would be directly connecting a ps3 into something that couldn't decode it and also provide 5.1 + abilities?

most of the time when you dont have other speakers you're just using tv speakers which are sts stereo.....

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 11:32 AM. Reason : s]

12/4/2007 11:30:03 AM

Quote :

"but don't ask wyloch about that - he's got gold plated diamond wires in his speakers "

...you really have no fucking clue on this topic, do you? I just realized you've been trolling all along. Well done.

12/4/2007 11:55:51 AM

oh you don't have the new speaker cables that have been impregnated with lab grown diamond dust? look it up - apparently the diamond dust makes the cables inert to any interference and also provides a chemical resistance to corrosion (carbon crystals actually kill the corrosive bacteria on contact)

12/4/2007 12:01:52 PM

Nah. I prefer the Krypton infused ones with the spaghetti sauce lining.

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 12:04 PM. Reason : ]

12/4/2007 12:04:06 PM

whoever was debating the relevance of lossless audio - give it a shot, see if it makes a difference for you or not.

It may well be placebo effect, but I sure can tell the difference. YMMV

12/4/2007 12:27:32 PM

Quote :

"i hate on ps3 owners because they think the ps3 is God's gift to man when clearly its not. It has flaws and cons just like any other electronics. But because it has the Sony stamp its perfection."

that still doesn't answer the question: Why does it bother you so much that PS3 owners enjoy the machine they purchased?

12/4/2007 12:28:57 PM

oh it doesn't bother me that you enjoy your machine. Its just like a cult. You have to convert everyone into a PS3 because it is the only way to heaven. So that part is annoying as fuck.

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 1:28 PM. Reason : asdf]

12/4/2007 1:28:30 PM

I'd say the evangelism is based more on a profound fear that the PS3 will go the way of the dreamcast.

12/4/2007 1:33:11 PM

i'm not familiar with the dreamcast. Last sega I had was a Mega Drive.d

12/4/2007 1:59:16 PM

format wars.. lol


(500gb external hd = $100) + (usb 3.0 transfer) = Winnar. Format war over.

12/4/2007 2:04:45 PM

^yay! an empty 500gb hard drive with super fast transfer speeds. Winz!

12/4/2007 2:06:17 PM

Does anyone actually think that the Playstation brand (or the PS3 itself for that matter) is going to go away? Sony has seen how profitable Playstation is, I think ditching the PS3 would only happen if they closed up shop altogether. Which obviously ain't gonna happen.

And ^... I'm not trying to "convert" anyone. You're free to buy whatever you want. But I AM gonna call you out when you spew out a bunch of bullshit. Which you do quite often. Which is why we're caught in this vicious cycle.

Quick, think up a witty reply!

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 2:31 PM. Reason : d]

12/4/2007 2:31:10 PM

Sony can't really stop PS3 from going the way of Dreamcast in terms of popularity if no one buys it.

Sure, it won't go down the path of "closing shop" but yea, in terms of minimal game support and reduced market penetration, it could very well happen

12/4/2007 2:39:54 PM

IMO, there are more parallels to be drawn b/w the 360 + Dreamcast than the PS3 + Dreamcast:

-released one year earlier than the competition to try to beat them to market
-minimum lifespan for their consoles (not Dreamcast specific, but applies to Sega as a company)
-Too many versions of their hardware with drastically different configurations (32x, segacd, etc etc / 360 + their HDD)




Then again, I never thought it was possible for Sony to even blow it as much as they have so far, so.....

12/4/2007 2:51:30 PM

^^^^
lugging around empty blurays && hddvdz! winz!!!



[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 3:15 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2007 3:14:58 PM

Quote :

"the only people in this thread you hear yapping on about how they can hear the difference are the PS3 owners. And they tend to lie a lot to save face."

btw i have a 360 with hd-dvd and i can tell the difference...
i also now run my hd-dvd player through my computer to get ALL of the sound capabilities out of it.


Rat, is usb 3.0 going to be faster than e-sata or sata II? if not... i don't see the point in it well i guess it is more plug & play friendly but really e-sata is sick in comparison to usb 2

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 3:18 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2007 3:16:41 PM

I thought the Sega Dreamcast died because anyone with broadband a burner could pirate their games... when it was released in 1999, this was about when broadband and home burners became popular and affordable.

12/4/2007 3:18:08 PM

it died cause the play station came out with better, more realistic games and made all this sonic/street fighter crap useless.

imho but i'm not an expert.

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 3:22 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2007 3:20:04 PM

Quote :

" -released one year earlier than the competition to try to beat them to market -minimum lifespan for their consoles (not Dreamcast specific, but applies to Sega as a company) -Too many versions of their hardware with drastically different configurations (32x, segacd, etc etc / 360 + their HDD)"

LOL...dude every 360 game plays on every 360 console no matter what ghey halo 3 skin you have.

a huge bulk of the original xbox games play on 360 (now available as of today to be purchased on the marketplace)

minimum lifespan for the console? (really?) lol....

Quote :

"lugging around empty blurays && hddvdz! winz!!!"

empty? I wasn't aware blank blu ray/hd dvd discs were available.

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 3:27 PM. Reason : .]

12/4/2007 3:26:54 PM

IMHO:

They rushed it out to market, and as a result had inferior hardware.
People were fed up with Sega b/c they kept releasing consoles + add-ons on a yearly basis (32X, Mega CD, Neptune, Saturn, then finally Dreamcast all in a period of 7 years).

I remember all my friends who owned Sega consoles being sour as hell by the time the Neptune came out.

12/4/2007 3:27:31 PM

Quote :

"LOL...dude every 360 game plays on every 360 console no matter what ghey halo 3 skin you have. a huge bulk of the original xbox games play on 360 (now available as of today to be purchased on the marketplace) minimum lifespan for the console? (really?) lol...."

1. Maybe so, but developers can't design the games using the HDD because it's not standard. This is how you ended up with such a mishmash of CD/cart games in the later half of the Genesis's life cycle. If you can't admit that MS made a mistake not making the HDD standard, you are blind (but that's another discussion).

2. Yeah, you can play original xbox games on 360 (but seriously... who would?) Unfortunately, it's not what I'm talking about. What I mean is that MS completely STOPPED supporting the Xbox 1 on the very same day the 360 was launched. No more new games at all, while the PS2 is still the most popular console 1+ year into the PS3's lifecycle. I think that's kinda giving your loyal customers the finger in a big way.

3. Yes, to me 4-5 years is pretty weak to just completely DROP support. I can understand if they wanna give people the option to upgrade to "NEXT GEN", but don't FORCE people to, it's shitty.


Can you really not see how much of a fanboy you are? Just look at how defensive you are getting.

12/4/2007 3:33:11 PM

Quote :

"empty? I wasn't aware blank blu ray/hd dvd discs were available. "

Well that just (again) shows just how little you know, then, doesn't it?

12/4/2007 3:38:34 PM

Haha, what's a Sega Neptune??

I am leaning on agreeing with you that the 360 feels like it was rushed to the market, because of the 33% ring-of-death defect rate, and the disk scratching problems... But Microsoft not acknowledging a the problem, and saying the defect rate was only about 3% for so long was just arrogant.

-------------

BD-R blanks @ newegg.com -- they're not exactly cheap yet, but both CD-Rs and DVD-Rs took a while to go down too.

[Edited on December 4, 2007 at 3:43 PM. Reason : blanks]

12/4/2007 3:41:12 PM

^^ yeah, wat an idiot

does everything he say = spewed bullshit?

12/4/2007 3:43:04 PM

Quote :

"Rat, is usb 3.0 going to be faster than e-sata or sata II? if not... i don't see the point in it well i guess it is more plug & play friendly but really e-sata is sick in comparison to usb 2"

at 4.8gb/s theoretical throughput, yes, USB 3.0 will be faster than e-sata

12/4/2007 3:59:47 PM

yep, usb 3.0 should be out shortly as well.

12/4/2007 4:04:04 PM

The Neptune was the frankenstein of Sega consoles. It was basically a Genesis + Sega CD + 32X all in one. I dont think it ever actually saw the light of day, but I remember when it was announced all my friends were pissed. And they were pissed because they had been milked by Sega and ended up with a console that looked like a transformer (genesis + 32X + SegaCD was ugly as hell). And the Saturn was already almost finalized at that point (which I believe is why they ended up scrapping the Neptune altogether).

I think they released like 15 games total for the 32X after charging $150-$200 for it.

12/4/2007 4:21:54 PM

Quote :

"1. Maybe so, but developers can't design the games using the HDD because it's not standard. This is how you ended up with such a mishmash of CD/cart games in the later half of the Genesis's life cycle. If you can't admit that MS made a mistake not making the HDD standard, you are blind (but that's another discussion). 2. Yeah, you can play original xbox games on 360 (but seriously... who would?) Unfortunately, it's not what I'm talking about. What I mean is that MS completely STOPPED supporting the Xbox 1 on the very same day the 360 was launched. No more new games at all, while the PS2 is still the most popular console 1+ year into the PS3's lifecycle. I think that's kinda giving your loyal customers the finger in a big way. 3. Yes, to me 4-5 years is pretty weak to just completely DROP support. I can understand if they wanna give people the option to upgrade to "NEXT GEN", but don't FORCE people to, it's shitty. Can you really not see how much of a fanboy you are? Just look at how defensive you are getting."

Xbox 360 >>>>>>>> ps3

12/4/2007 4:23:27 PM

thanks quag i haven't read anything on it.

12/4/2007 4:27:54 PM

Quote :

"Xbox 360 >>>>>>>> ps3"

At this point in the game, you're absolutely right.

See how liberating it can be to have an objective thought? You should try it sometime.

12/4/2007 4:46:09 PM

i daresay usb 3.0 is my most awaited new spec...i've been waiting for standardized optical interfaces for a while (on a consumer level, not in regards to HD audio)...it should effectively kill firewire and e.sata...maybe not, though

12/4/2007 4:50:48 PM

Quote :

"whoever was debating the relevance of lossless audio - give it a shot, see if it makes a difference for you or not. It may well be placebo effect, but I sure can tell the difference. YMMV"

Only decent post in the entire thread.

I will say that to conduct any test you need to be immune to the changes someone else is making.

I tested a flac, mp3, and hd-audio dvd of the same track.

Obviously if i flipped back and forth and tried to convince myself I could. No way in hell could i pick it out if someone else changed them.

12/4/2007 6:04:11 PM

pad

12/4/2007 6:08:25 PM

^^ I can and I have.

12/4/2007 6:50:54 PM