well, i think the adam and eve concept will play a huge role in the storyline, and if it plays a very large role, than i don't think rose and bernard would fit that...we'll see

3/9/2009 7:13:53 PM

Yeah, that's right. So they are probably living in a cave somewhere. They were loners anyway.

3/9/2009 8:59:44 PM

maybe there will be one episode later that will fill us in on everything Rose/Brenard and some of the others have done during all the time jumping and from 1974-77, before they reconvene with the main crowd. Kind of like how they did a "catch-up" episode when thy introduced the "tailies" back in S1 or 2

3/9/2009 9:34:24 PM

all this rose and bernard talk is such a waste

they're not very important characters

and even if they turn out to be...they're not that interesting

Quote :

"Kind of like how they did a "catch-up" episode when thy introduced the "tailies" back in S1 or 2"

also a waste...where are those people now and how has that advanced the story?

[Edited on March 9, 2009 at 9:38 PM. Reason : sdfghjkl;]

3/9/2009 9:37:27 PM

Quote :

"also a waste...where are those people now and how has that advanced the story?"

Ana Lucia and Libby weren't supposed to be killed off

The actresses playing those characters got DUIs or something and they were written off prematurely

Quote :

"well, i think the adam and eve concept will play a huge role in the storyline"

How? Why? They're just dead people. We already know their purpose: to show us that the writers weren't making shit up as the went along. You're reading far too much into this

[Edited on March 9, 2009 at 9:47 PM. Reason : ]

3/9/2009 9:46:43 PM

like i said

waste




and how does adam and eve prove they knew what they were doing all along?

they could put anyone in there and people would be satisfied...

[Edited on March 9, 2009 at 9:50 PM. Reason : asdfghjkl]

3/9/2009 9:48:11 PM

So I guess they shouldn't develop any characters

Just assume that they'll all be kicked off the show

They should probably just cancel the entire series now before someone else boozes it and loses it

3/9/2009 9:49:21 PM

bdub is still under the cloud correct?

3/9/2009 9:49:55 PM

Quote :

"and how does adam and eve prove they knew what they were doing all along? they could put anyone in there and people would be satisfied..."

It doesn't matter who they are, it matters how they got there. To some degree, the writers were obviously planning the time-skipping all along.

It doesn't mean that they didn't improvise or tread water for months at a time. But it does show that there were several arcs planed out from the beginning.

3/9/2009 9:54:12 PM

and that fascinates you?

really?

"Hey--lets throw in this little mind blowing thing and then figure it out later after we figure out some other shit...lets go browse wikipedia!"

3/9/2009 10:19:23 PM

Yep, totally fascinated

In awe

I'm jerking off to photos of JJ Abrams

Ahhwwhwhwhwwww

3/9/2009 10:20:45 PM

Quote :

"agreed, that and since karl was trying to run away with alex maybe they wanted to control him and keep him from doing so. they'd have plenty of reasons to brainwash karl."

wat?

First of all karl didn't seem like someone they'd let in on every secret detail of the island. Remember juliet didn't know how harper appeared in front of her or what the whispers were. Most of the others follow the leader and the leader receives information from Jacob. Its up to the leaders judgement what information to share. Think back to how Juliet didn't know how to move the island, or even probably what the orchid was really for. The others now armed with all of the data from DI (post purge) didn't know why women were dying while pregnant. Juliet said "We don't know what it is, but we know it doesn't like our fences" in reference to the smoke monster. Until Keamy showed up i would assume the others didn't know how to get to the temple. Alex for sure didn't and there isn't really a reason for them to go there for safekeeping. Until the losties showed up, the others weren't in conflict with anyone (that we know of ) other than Danielle. Furthermore at that time karl would've had no idea that 6 of the losties were getting off of the island. Furthermorier they attempted to brainwash Walt. Walt certainly didn't know anything secrets. Beatrice threatened to put Walt back in the room to spook him. Maybe its just a punishment, but seems like a strange punishment.

Rose and bernard being adam and eve makes sense because from 1974-1977 apparently they never met up with the DI. I doubt the others would just let 2 random people in. Earlier Ben claimed Locke wasn't 'other' material because he couldn't pass that test to kill his dad. But i don't see how you people care that much about adam & eve or rose & bernard. Neither has been a significant part of the story and no one else cared to find them or made a big deal out of it. After the flaming arrow attack on the beach the producers did say that they did not die on the beach, but that doesn't mean very much.

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

3/10/2009 12:12:27 AM

^most of that was just trite and doesn't refute anything that I said. I'm not sure from where your concept of Karl being a keeper of secrets, or lack there of, developed, but what I said was Karl was trying to run off with Alex so ben wanted to stop him from doing so. The only thing worthwhile from that first worthless section of your post is you stated walt was also being brainwashed, which supports my conclusion. They don't want walt to leave so they brainwash him to stay. I don't refute the bulk of your post because its in large parts nothing more than a recap of story line and is baseless when compared to statements anyone else has made.

Sadly, I cannot approve your message.

3/10/2009 7:58:06 AM

oh my bad i meant to quote

Quote :

" If a group had been protecting the secrets of the island since the dawn of man I could imagine that brainwashing would prove useful. I think Ben was probably abusing that power a little bit for personal reasons."

that guy too

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

3/10/2009 10:16:25 AM

3/10/2009 11:53:26 AM

1. lets pause to remember "Mac" from "Its Always Sunny..." was the one gaurding the "torture" room when Karl was in it

thats probably one of my favorite things from that season, and definitely my favorite part of that episode

2. can we take a second to look at rose's backstory (and one plot hole/point that is important)

remember when bernard took rose to the faith healer, he basically explained what we learned at the dharma watchtower (or whatever elloise's church hideout is called)

there are places on the earth where there are "powers"

so we see rose/bernard as, in many ways, as validating at least some of the show mythology (if not helping to create it)

but a plot hole or important plot point that has bugged me

ROSE = CANCER = CURED BY ISLAND
LOCKE = PARALYSIS = CURED BY ISLAND
SHANNON = ASTHMA = CURED BY ISLANDEUCALYPTUS LEAVES

is shannon not special enough
is inflamed lung tissue not showy enough

it could go back to what the guy in australia was saying, different spots for different people
but then you have to ask what are the odds two people who work with this spot wound up crashing together

or maybe shannon's asthma was just a way for the writers to pit jack/sayid against sawyer and they didn't consider the larger ramifications

3/10/2009 7:34:33 PM

I don't see how Shannon's asthma is a plot hole. Maybe the island didn't, uh, want to heal her. Just like Ben's cancer, Jack's appendix, Sawyer's nearsightedness...

3/10/2009 7:39:52 PM

so then rose is, in some way, more important than some of you people are giving her credit for

3/10/2009 8:18:14 PM

i do believe you are reading too much into that

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

3/10/2009 11:14:52 PM

ok

3/10/2009 11:24:39 PM

are you insinuating that shannon would be healed if she found another island?

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

3/11/2009 12:39:33 AM

perhaps she would have been able to ditch the inhaler if she'd rented a land rover and gone to the site in australia like bernard tried

3/11/2009 12:57:11 AM

WHERE IS VINCENT?

3/11/2009 2:15:01 AM

i hope he becomes richard's pet and becomes an immortal too

3/11/2009 2:31:15 AM

Woodfoot

where do you stand on our bet at this current juncture. i find it unlikely that they will discuss at any future point the relations of the people who were others on the island, especially since charlotte's family was part of dharma, which doesn't exactly mingle well with the others. That, and, considering the remaining crew also had the same symptoms as she did.

I believe its fairly clear that the person killed was not her grandfather or even father. Are you willing to concede and discuss delivery at this point?

3/11/2009 10:13:51 AM

are you really asking for a concession just a few episodes removed from the first mention of your bet?

this is Lost, things go unexplained for like seasons apart

3/11/2009 10:32:08 AM

^are you daft? just a few episodes? For starters its been about 6weeks since the inception of our bet. Moving past that while things go on for months or seasons without being explained they can be explained early on and this subject has been pretty much covered. do you even watch the show, because if so it should be clear to you.

3/11/2009 10:39:08 AM

6 weeks is about equal to a few episodes...

3/11/2009 11:13:56 AM

I have to agree with IRSeriousCat. There's not a ton of specifics as to why the time travel/flashes killed Charlotte other than "you can only handle so much," but there is overwhelming evidence that Locke killing that guy in the past did NOT affect Charlotte's life or death.

Most importantly, the way they've been hammering home the fact that "whatever happened, happened" and it's not going to change, thus eliminating the opportunity to create alternate timelines/futures (thank God!). This means that that guy that Locke killed was always killed by Locke at that moment in time. There was no alternate timeline that ever had him living past that moment in time. This has point has been repeatedly addressed and affirmed over the last few episodes.

I think it's pretty obvious by now that Charlotte didn't fade away slowly Michael J. Fox style.

3/11/2009 11:27:38 AM

im not backing either side, i was just saying it hasn't been long enough for a bet to be conceded in either direction

3/11/2009 11:29:37 AM

yeah charlotte was there with DI. its unlikely that someone who was an other became DI or had children who became DI

I'm Big Business and i approved this message.

3/11/2009 12:07:51 PM

Quote :

"are you daft? just a few episodes? For starters its been about 6weeks since the inception of our bet."

Dude, I think he's going to challenge you to a duel

3/11/2009 12:31:18 PM

Quote :

"its unlikely that someone who was an other became DI or had children who became DI"

fact.

give the man his money, Woodfoot

3/11/2009 12:49:58 PM

Wait, who said Charlotte and her mom were with the DI?

3/11/2009 12:53:16 PM

aha

who was that guy that used to post fact. before everything in sports talk

3/11/2009 12:54:06 PM

If what has happened has always happened, why didn't Richard in "the present" automatically recognize Locke as the crazy old man that wandered out of the desert X years ago and disappeared before his eyes and then was reminded about it again by Sawyer some years later? (whom he also didn't recognize when he saw him in "the present")

3/11/2009 1:49:23 PM

what makes you say he didn't recognize them?

3/11/2009 1:50:18 PM

Quote :

"why didn't Richard in "the present" automatically recognize Locke as the crazy old man that wandered out of the desert X years ago and disappeared before his eyes"

He did recognize Locke, hence all the "we've been waiting for you" speak.

Quote :

"Sawyer ... whom he also didn't recognize when he saw him in "the present""

In 2005, we never saw Richard meet Sawyer. In 1954, we never saw Richard meet Sawyer but we saw Juliet point out Richard to Sawyer from afar. That's why Sawyer knew Richard in 1977, but Richard did not know Sawyer.

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 1:57 PM. Reason : ]

3/11/2009 1:55:30 PM

^^^Richard DOES recognize Locke, that's kinda a point they've been stressing this whole season. The fact that we now know how Richard knows him only helps to explain why Richard helped Locke in "The Brig" which is the episode I'm assuming you're referencing when you said, "The Present."

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 1:59 PM. Reason : sorry, thought you were referencing an episode when you said "the present," my bad.]

3/11/2009 1:57:54 PM

I thought that the first time that Richard met Locke (and by first I mean in the show) was when Locke was going to take over the Others and was supposed to kill his father. At the time, I don't remember Richard being all like "Hey, weren't you the crazy fuck that just straight up disappeared like 40 years ago!"

3/11/2009 2:05:51 PM

Quote :

"He did recognize Locke, hence all the "we've been waiting for you" speak."

3/11/2009 2:10:06 PM

Quote :

"At the time, I don't remember Richard being all like "Hey, weren't you the crazy fuck that just straight up disappeared like 40 years ago!""

There wasn't a need, it would've just confused Locke further. Locke was already dealing with some heavy shit, he didn't need the anticipation of upcoming time travel to try and wrap his head around.

3/11/2009 2:11:52 PM

^exactly. Richard knew he would see him again and he act as he saw fit. Even if there was a scene in the show where richard was introduced to locke and someone said "hey do you know this guy" and richard replied 'no', that answer would presumably be a lie.

i think people are so accustomed to plot holes that they are looking for them as much as they can, even to the point where they forget to utilize their suspension of disbelief.

3/11/2009 2:25:47 PM

You hit the nail on the head. The absurdity of the show kills my suspension of disbelief. I think it stems back to when the show first started. I really wanted it to be about people crashed on an island. Lord of the flies and shit. I didn't even mind when they found the hatch, "oooh, a secret government installation, this will be interesting." Then the Stephen King shit started happening and it lost me. For me, it's been jumping the shark since the first season. Ahhh, well.

As a side note, I was totally suspicious of the writers' intentions when they were marketing credit cards where if you signed up you would be given some of the secrets of Lost.

3/11/2009 2:37:59 PM

So you're one of those guys who hates the show so much you've decided to stick with it for five seasons?

3/11/2009 2:42:32 PM

...and spend time talking about it on a message board.

3/11/2009 2:44:55 PM

When your plotline involves time travel, any and every sub-plot can be made to make sense.

3/11/2009 2:46:25 PM

I just don't get the people who say that shit started getting wacky after the second episode, that you just wanted some crash-survivors Lord of the Flies shit going on.

REALLY

SIXTY-ODD PEOPLE SURVIVE A PLANE BEING RIPPED APART IN MID-AIR

AND YOU'RE COOL WITH THAT

BUT YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE SCI-FI ELEMENTS OF THE SHOW

REALLY

3/11/2009 2:47:14 PM

^ He said since the first season, not after the first episode. Huge difference there. Some people just cannot get into Lost. Honestly, at this point, I'm just watching it to find out how everything could possibly fit together and still make coherent sense. Hopefully it's surprising and original, hopefully.

[Edited on March 11, 2009 at 2:56 PM. Reason : -]

3/11/2009 2:55:47 PM

First, as I have explained before, there are other people in my life that like this show and rather than avoid them for this hour I have chosen to sit and watch this show with them. Yes, I could go play WoW, but there is time for conversation to be had during the hour that Lost is on the TV.

Second, there's a difference between SciFi and Fantasy. Science Fiction has an understandable framework. There are spaceships. They have engines which explain how they move. Conflict (and interesting plot, since conflict really is the only thing that makes plots interesting) can occur because the engines could become damaged. Or the safety dampeners on the Holodeck will fail yet again.

Lost lacks this believable framework (for me at least) and conflict is meaningless. I wouldn't worry if someone was stuck in the jungle and about to starve because it seems as though that it is just as likely that a MacDonald's will spring up out of the ground instead of them dying. Why should I care that Ben strangled Locke to death when he will just pop back up? Will Locke seek revenge, or will Ben just come back from the dead?

Finally, I thought this was a message board for discussion, not a Lost friends circle jerk. Me not liking Lost is no opinion on your personal tastes. No need to get antsy when someone doesn't like the same stupid shows you do.

3/11/2009 2:56:34 PM