^^ this started before July 8

8/1/2014 8:05:41 AM

Israel has already killed a few dozen people during the cease fire because 7 rockets landed in open areas

8/1/2014 8:50:08 AM

Quote :

"I don't think that militants would be firing rockets from a designated UN shelter."

Quote :

"And why is that? Because it doesn't fit what you want to believe?"

You're right that I wouldn't want to believe that militants would be firing rockets from a designated UN shelter, but I also I wouldn't want to believe that Israel would be targeting innocent civilians in a designated UN shelter.

However, I've yet to see any evidence that militants were firing rockets from this UN shelter.

You, on the other hand, assume that militants were firing rockets from this UN shelter with no evidence to support your assumption.

8/1/2014 9:07:51 AM

Quote :

"You, on the other hand, assume that militants were firing rockets from this UN shelter with no evidence to support your assumption."

It's a pretty safe assumption, given their past actions.

Quote :

"Israel has already killed a few dozen people during the cease fire because 7 rockets landed in open areas"

Or maybe because Hamas fired upon and killed IDF troops, as well as abducted an IDF soldier...but fuck details right????

8/1/2014 9:39:44 AM

Another detail is that the ceasefire allowed Israel to continue to search and destroy tunnels on the ground, so it's not surprising that there were some firefights.

8/1/2014 9:51:06 AM

Quote :

"Israel has already killed a few dozen people during the cease fire because 7 rockets landed in open areas"

How can Israel fire a rocket into Gaza and not hit someone? My interpretation of that place is one large jam-packed dwelling. So no matter what Israel does with their rockets, they're bound to hit someone. I'm not making and argument for or against anything, just saying that if Hamas broke the cease fire with 7 rockets landing in open area, then they need to aim better.

8/1/2014 9:56:29 AM

Gaza fired rockets into Israel and didn't hit anything. Israel responded with tanks and killed a bunch of civilians.

8/1/2014 10:09:23 AM

^ Ok now I know you're trolling, cause you ain't that damn dumb.

8/1/2014 10:10:51 AM

Quote :

"just saying that if Hamas broke the cease fire with 7 rockets landing in open area, then they need to aim better."

i'm sure they'd like to have the same hardware as israel, but they're firing shitty rockets they've made from scrap metal that they've smuggled in through tunnels and other ways. I'd like to know more about how they build and store hundreds of rockets while essentially living in a prison. i guess they've become pretty ingenuitive over the years, like prisoners constructing and hiding shanks in prison.

8/1/2014 10:13:33 AM

^^ huh? that's what happened.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/truce-crumbles-as-40-killed-in-gaza-rockets-hit-israel-569121

Quote :

"Some two hours after the truce went into effect, Israeli tanks and artillery opened fire in the southern Rafah area, and a local hospital said 40 people were killed. The Israeli military had no immediate comment but media reports said the shelling began after Hamas fighters exchanged fire with Israeli soldiers on a mission to destroy infiltration tunnels. Eight rockets and mortar bombs were fired from Gaza at Israel, the military said, adding that one was intercepted by the Iron Dome system and seven hit open areas."

from other reporting, and the IDF spokesperson themselves, the firefight where the soldier was kidnapped happened at (or in) a tunnel shortly after the rockets
IDF @IDFSpokesperson · 4h
This morning, Hamas fired at our forces in S. Gaza in violation of a ceasefire. We suspect that an IDF soldier was kidnapped moments later.





[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 10:37 AM. Reason : .]

8/1/2014 10:14:50 AM

Imagone if a cease fire allowed hamas soldiers to roam around tel aviv

8/1/2014 10:31:24 AM

Quote :

"Ok now I know you're trolling, cause you ain't that damn dumb."

i dont get it. how was he trolling?

8/1/2014 11:43:31 AM

Because that's not even close to the order of events...or even a complete list of the events to begin with.

8/1/2014 12:12:14 PM

i'm going off the reporting that I found, are you seeing something that conflicts? all accounts i read are that Hamas fired 8 rockets, 1 was intercepted and 7-landed in an open area. IDF responded with tanks and artillery fire that killed 40 people.

What are you seeing differently? Are you just trolling?

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 12:19 PM. Reason : i think it is over 40 people now]

8/1/2014 12:18:29 PM

do you even read the shit you quote?

Quote :

" Some two hours after the truce went into effect, Israeli tanks and artillery opened fire in the southern Rafah area, and a local hospital said 40 people were killed. The Israeli military had no immediate comment but media reports said the shelling began after Hamas fighters exchanged fire with Israeli soldiers on a mission to destroy infiltration tunnels."

8/1/2014 12:23:20 PM

I think it's safe to assume that we don't know the order of events and have to rely on conflicting reports... but again, Israel soldiers were allowed to continue to roam gaza and search and destroy tunnels as part of the "cease-fire", so it's no surprise that there were firefights on the ground. Do you think Hamas would just lay down their weapons as the IDF ran around the neighborhoods with their guns?

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 12:30 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2014 12:28:45 PM

Quote :

"Israel soldiers were allowed to continue to roam gaza and search and destroy tunnels as part of the "cease-fire", so it's no surprise that there were firefights on the ground."

Yeah that's not much of a cease fire.

Quote :

"I think it's safe to assume that we don't know the order of events"

Well sure, but this dude claims he knows, quotes content from the media refuting his claim, and then says I'm trolling when I call him out on his original claim.

8/1/2014 12:34:54 PM

So i just looked at the comments on a WRAL story, and I again see "they hide behind their citizens" so it's their fault all these people are being killed.

And I wonder, what other option do they have? Gaza is smaller than the boundaries of Raleigh and one of the mostly densely populated places in the world. INn fighting the occupation, how could they even do it without stationing rockets, militants, etc. in civilian areas? It's not like they have the option of setting aside designated military bases from where to station their soldiers and store and fire their rockets. And if they did, the IDF could easily wipe out their entire military in a day.

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 12:38 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2014 12:35:00 PM

Quote :

"i just looked at the comments on a WRAL story"

I would advise against that.

Interesting comparison though.

Raleigh - 145 square miles, 425,000 population
Gaza - 139 square miles 1,800,000 population

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 12:39 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2014 12:36:42 PM

Haha, true. But the same argument has been brought up in this thread many times too.

8/1/2014 12:37:41 PM

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/1.608331

Quote :

"10:04 A.M. Two mortar shell strike town near Gaza border; rocket siren sounded, no injuries reported. (Haaretz)"

Quote :

"10:38 A.M. Three Palestinian civilians wounded by IDF artillery strikes in the southern Gaza Strip, Palestinian news agency Ma'an reports, less than three hours after cease-fire agreement takes effect (Haaretz)"

Quote :

"10:51 A.M. Rocket siren sounds in town near Gaza border (Haaretz)"

Quote :

"11:19 A.M. Heavy fire exchanged in eastern Rafah, in the southern Gaza Strip (Gili Cohen)"

this is what i keep seeing, that the rocket fire started before the gunfight in southern Gaza

Quote :

"do you even read the shit you quote?"

yeah, a quote about the gunfight that happened after the rocket attacks. nothing about that quote was intended to be in regards to a timeline, just that a gunfight also happened because it seems that you think i'm trolling about there being rocket fire and a gunfight.

i'm not sure what you are confused about or why you think i am trolling, are you seeing reporting to the contrary?

Even what I can find from IDF officials are either that it was concurrent or that the rockets fired from Gaza came first.

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 12:53 PM. Reason : .]

8/1/2014 12:49:01 PM

It doesn't really matter who fired the first shot. If the IDF continued their ground operations, then there was never really a cease fire to begin with.

How many times does this have to repeat itself?

Every time Hamas shoots, it is portrayed in the media as "a blatant disregard for the cease fire."

Every time the IDF shoots, it is portrayed in the media as "a continuation of operations and not a part of the cease fire agreement."


How obvious is this? Hamas breaks the cease fire, and they are putting their own citizens lives at risk. Israel breaks the cease fire, and, "nope, nuh-uh....that doesn't count. That's something totally different. We're still allowed to fuck shit up even during the cease fire. Hahaaa" [sticks out tongue, points fingers].

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 1:06 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2014 12:59:37 PM

i'm not trying to make a point about the timeline, it doesn't matter, i just don't understand how my post was confused as trolling

if i misunderstood the reporting then please point that out

8/1/2014 1:02:36 PM

Quote :

"i'm not trying to make a point about the timeline"

that's interesting, because this is a point about the timeline:

Quote :

"Gaza fired rockets into Israel and didn't hit anything. Israel responded with tanks and killed a bunch of civilians."

8/1/2014 1:45:21 PM

again, i'm not clear why that's wrong. all of the reports are that 8 rockets were fired, 1 was intercepted, and 7 landed in clear areas. Israel responded with artillery and tanks and killed at least 40 civilians.

do you disagree with that?

8/1/2014 1:46:39 PM

Quote :

"8 rockets were fired, 1 was intercepted, and 7 landed in clear areas. Israel responded with artillery and tanks and killed at least 40 civilians."

I'll agree that it appears those 8 rockets were launched, but I disagree that Israel's shelling was directly a response to that rocket attack. I get that you're trying to paint Israel's response as disproportionate in order to vilify them, but you're completely ignoring the reports of a Hamas attack on IDF soldiers who were dismantling a tunnel, which resulted in two IDF deaths and one reported IDF soldier captured, all of which happened before the rocket strike and Israeli shelling.

Which do you think would elicit a larger response from the IDF? 8 rockets that did jack shit or 2 dead IDF soldiers and (especially) one captured?

8/1/2014 2:08:37 PM

so i posted that Hamas broke the ceasefire to be sympathetic to Hamas? nothing about that post had anything to do with the kidnapping and gunfight that happened in another part of Gaza. Seriously, what the fuck are you arguing about? Are you so defensive of Israel that any news alert that does not include the entire history or every other event is trolling? i saw a news alert, posted it, then you shit yourself.

grow the fuck up

and yes, the artillery and tanks were in response to the rockets per the IDF.

8/1/2014 3:04:42 PM

Quote :

"It's a pretty safe assumption, given their past actions."

So, basically, you're cool with just making shit up.

Do you have evidence of these numerous rocket attacks coming from UN shelters? (Preferably not from foxnews.com or jewishpress.com, please. Thanks.)

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 3:18 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2014 3:16:48 PM

^ we are talking of synapse here...

who cares what the truth is, make assumptions and pass judgments!

8/1/2014 3:19:00 PM

Quote :

"nothing about that post had anything to do with the kidnapping and gunfight that happened in another part of Gaza"

Obviously. Thanks for repeating my point. I guess we'll call that agreement.

Quote :

"the artillery and tanks were in response to the rockets per the IDF."

Link? Because the one you provided says:

Quote :

" media reports said the shelling began after Hamas fighters exchanged fire with Israeli soldiers on a mission to destroy infiltration tunnels."

You'll note there's no mention of rockets there.

Quote :

"so i posted that Hamas broke the ceasefire to be sympathetic to Hamas?"

The killing and reported abduction of IDF soldiers is obviously the incident that broke the "cease-fire", not the rockets. Surely you can concede that by now.

Quote :

"Seriously, what the fuck are you arguing about? Are you so defensive of Israel that any news alert that does not include the entire history or every other event is trolling?"

Yeah I'm so defensive of Israel that I agreed that Israel didn't agree to a true cease-fire since they were still conducting ground operations in Gaza

And I don't know who you think you're fooling when you say this wasn't meant to vilify Israel:

Quote :

"Gaza fired rockets into Israel and didn't hit anything. Israel responded with tanks and killed a bunch of civilians."

Quote :

"So, basically, you're cool with just making shit up."

Quote :

"And it's SOP for Israel to bomb hospitals and schools they know to be full of refugees."

Quote :

"make assumptions and pass judgments!"

No, I reserve all of my judgements for you and your hypocritical shit-talking about 'Merica.

8/1/2014 3:40:34 PM

this thread is pointless

anything israel does is bad, and anything palestinians do is fine

8/1/2014 4:13:00 PM

I don't think anybody thinks that Hamas is completely innocent.

8/1/2014 4:15:57 PM

Those are all quotes made by different users.


I'm confused.

Does synapse think we're all the same person?

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 4:29 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2014 4:16:15 PM

Quote :

"The killing and reported abduction of IDF soldiers is obviously the incident that broke the "cease-fire", not the rockets. Surely you can concede that by now."

i've asked you at least 4 times for where you are seeing this, what i see says the rocket attacks broke the cease fire. perhaps i've misunderstood the reporting, i've politely asked you to clarify what you are seeing/reading multiple times.

but i'm not sure why it matters to you either way

8/1/2014 4:23:03 PM

synapse, i'm afraid you're losing your street cred bro. while your jabs against OEP were cool maybe 2-3 years ago, its kinda stale and making you look like a petulant child.

8/1/2014 4:32:40 PM

Quote :

"i've asked you at least 4 times for where you are seeing this, what i see says the rocket attacks broke the cease fire. perhaps i've misunderstood the reporting, i've politely asked you to clarify what you are seeing/reading multiple times. but i'm not sure why it matters to you either way"

More like where have I not seen it...is your head in the sand or are you just feigning ignorance?

Quote :

"Fighting broke out with renewed ferocity in Gaza on Friday as Israeli forces bombarded the town of Rafah in response to the apparent capture of one of its soldiers by Hamas, after an internationally brokered ceasefire collapsed almost immediately."

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/aug/01/israel-bombards-rafah-soldier-disappears-gaza-ceasefire-collapse

Quote :

"@IDFSpokesperson · 9h If our suspicions about today's events are accurate, Hamas took advantage of the latest ceasefire in order to kidnap an IDF soldier."

Quote :

"@IDFSpokesperson 7h Once again, Israel accepted a ceasefire. Once again, Hamas violated it. pic.twitter.com/DqQBMSUTDz"

Quote :

"The latest attempt at an Israel-Hamas cease-fire disintegrated Friday. After the capture of an Israeli soldier, the conflict edged closer to escalation than to peace."

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/01/world/meast/mideast-crisis/index.html?hpt=hp_c2

Quote :

"A 72-hour humanitarian ceasefire, supposed to pave the way to a peace deal, collapsed into savage violence within three fateful hours after the Israeli military accused Hamas of breaking the truce with the kidnapping of a soldier and killing two others in an ambush using a suicide bomber."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/gaza-conflict-israels-great-fear-is-realised-as-soldier-is-seized-in-ambush-that-killed-two-more-9643912.html

You still haven't substantiated your claim "the artillery and tanks were in response to the rockets per the IDF."

Quote :

"I'm confused. Does synapse think we're all the same person?"

I was responding to multiple people in one post...next time I'll be sure to double/triple post.



[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 4:48 PM. Reason : V ahh yeah my bad...i confused Pupils DiL8t post for yours for some reason]

8/1/2014 4:35:25 PM

That's weird, because one of those quotes was from me, and I haven't been talking to you at all on this page. I thought it was just you and dtown going at it.


It's like your collectively punishing me for something I had no involvement in.

8/1/2014 4:39:08 PM

boom goes the dynamite

8/1/2014 4:41:09 PM

i'm not sure what synapse is upset about

8/1/2014 4:43:14 PM

Or you could respond to the points...whatever.

8/1/2014 4:43:57 PM

you edited them in afterwards, they weren't there before

only one of those links says that the cease fire started with the kidnapping, which is all you needed to post before. i'm not sure which timeline is correct, does that mean that the heavy fighting in south gaza is not when the soldier was kidnapped?

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 4:46 PM. Reason : it doesn't matter to me which timeline is the right one]

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 4:47 PM. Reason : started = ended]

8/1/2014 4:45:15 PM

@IDFspokesperson



Yeah, he sounds reliable.

8/1/2014 4:49:30 PM

So you're still not going to back up "the artillery and tanks were in response to the rockets per the IDF" huh? I posted some of my sources...nearly the entirety of major world media. Where's yours?

Quote :

"@IDFspokesperson Yeah, he sounds reliable."

He's credible enough for dtownral to be posting his tweets.

Quote :

"Kerry issued a statement after the call condemning "in the strongest possible terms" Hamas' killing of two Israeli soldiers today, and demanding the group "immediately and unconditionally release the missing Israeli soldier." Hamas' operation was an "outrageous violation of the cease-fire," Kerry said."

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 4:57 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2014 4:51:12 PM

I guess, man.

I'mma hang up and listen.

8/1/2014 4:54:17 PM

i posted that as an IDF statement. It's a verified twitter account for the IDF, so yes, it is acceptable to use that way.

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 4:55 PM. Reason : ,]

8/1/2014 4:55:12 PM

I'm confused as to why this matters so much. So either Israel resumed killing ~50 some palestenians and injuring 100s more because either because 3 IDF soldiers were killed and one might of been captures while they continued to roam around gaza with their guns, or Israel did it because hamas fired off 7 rockets that didn't hit anything.

Actually, I think the first looks much worse for Israel, because the IDF were still running around gaza looking for tunnels (and militants too, i'm sure) during the ceasefire and knew that they'd be shot at, what did they expect? So when they were shot at, they claimed the cease-fire was broken and resumed bombarding the Palestinian people.

8/1/2014 5:00:00 PM

Quote :

"I'm confused as to why this matters so much."

Because I took exception with this comment from dtownral as in inaccurate attempt to vilify Israel. I mean Israel does a lot of fucked up shit for sure, but this "news alert" as he called it doesn't appear to be true.

Quote :

"Gaza fired rockets into Israel and didn't hit anything. Israel responded with tanks and killed a bunch of civilians."

Quote :

"the IDF were still running around gaza looking for tunnels"

Didn't they sign the "cease-fire" with that provision in place? (as mentioned...making it not really a cease-fire in the first place).

Also do we know if they were running around looking for new tunnels, or simply continuing with an existing destruction of a single tunnel. Not a huge distinction, but the latter isn't as bad i guess.



[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 5:10 PM. Reason : V they're been reporting that all day dude. hence my "head in sand" question]

8/1/2014 5:04:56 PM

looking at the timeline now it looks the reporting is that the Israeli soldiers were clearing the tunnels about 30 minutes prior to the rockets that were fired from Hamas. This timeline is different than it was when I saw the alert at 8:45, probably as additional information and reporting has come in. i haven't seen anything to contradict the earlier narrative that the tank (mobile artillery) was in response to the rockets and towards that position.


^ it wasn't a signed agreement, they agreed to a ceasefire and Israel came out and said they still had the right to clear tunnels

Quote :

" V they're been reporting that all day dude. hence my "head in sand" question"

well then you should have posted that when I asked, because the timeline according to haaretz still said otherwise at 12:49

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 5:12 PM. Reason : .]

8/1/2014 5:08:51 PM

^i have no idea what the language of the deal was. But, IDF, and Netanyahu have openly claimed that their "operations" would continue despite the "ceasefire" (making it not a ceasefire at all). This was the case when the IDF bombed a market a few days ago, so I'm sure that's their position on this as well.

8/1/2014 5:08:52 PM

Quote :

"Didn't they sign the "cease-fire" with that provision in place? (as mentioned...making it not really a cease-fire in the first place)."

Yeah, i think so, which again raises questions about the IDF's desire for peace. I think there was also something in there about not advancing beyond the territory that was already claimed, which Im not sure how that works in a battle like this, nor I don't understand how that allows for the IDF to continue looking for tunnels.

[Edited on August 1, 2014 at 5:09 PM. Reason : ]

8/1/2014 5:08:53 PM