Yea, you will definitely gain more mass with a high volume program like that.

Some people will make an argument that the mass you gain from the high volume is more "puffy" from sarcoplasmic hypertrophy, rather than contractile myofibullar hypertrophy.

I haven't made up my mind on it. And with my training I do a combo of heavy, lower rep like 3x5 on big lifts. Then high rep 3-5x10-12 on single joint or accessory lifts.

3/2/2012 11:13:58 AM

i never saw much results from heavy bent over rows/pendlay rows and to be quite honest haven't gotten heavy with power cleans yet, as they're super intimidating to learn on your own with reading from a book.

i'd like to start incorporating power cleans back into the programming, probs on the next cycle of 5/3/1. also need get more confident in them. which, with me is a function of repetition and familiarity.

been doing the back work on ohp/bp days as part of accessory work.


[Edited on March 2, 2012 at 11:27 AM. Reason : ok rereading that's not it at all]

3/2/2012 11:24:37 AM

Power cleans are not really useful for mass gains.

They are useful for developing explosiveness/power, strength, and how to handle/receive heavy weights. They do help develop the traps.

I like Pendlay rows a lot. But you need to do them right and with some volume to get growth from them. The draw back with them is that they don't have much of an eccentric phase which can limit it's effectiveness to build size.

Chin ups, lat pulls, dead lifts, 1 armed DB rows, seated rows, t bar rows and chest supported rows may be better for what you are after.



[Edited on March 2, 2012 at 11:53 AM. Reason : .]

3/2/2012 11:52:45 AM

i really can't make up my mind as to what i am after

3/2/2012 12:04:48 PM

If you're not seeing results with heavy rows, then you're probably not bent over far enough, like 90% of people doing in the gym usually are. Heavy barbell rows are by far the best mass builder exercise I know of for back. They're not going to make your lats flare out, but they'll make your back thick and give the illusion of a thinner waist.

can you do pullups instead of using a pulldown machine? I never got much flare out of my lats until I switched to pullups. Bodyweight exercises in general tend to signal growth in the body better than machines.

3/2/2012 1:22:48 PM

^ agreed. Pullups and chin ups have always been really effective for mass gains on my back.

3/2/2012 2:39:21 PM

working on wide grip pullups is what lead me to wide grip lat pull downs.

soon. haven't tried unassisted in a while.

chins and normal pullups ill do here and there.


[Edited on March 2, 2012 at 3:27 PM. Reason : makes me feel like a fatty. ]

3/2/2012 3:21:58 PM

Don't pull down , pull up

3/2/2012 3:37:44 PM

woot woot...

hour training, doing negative countdown with 145 bench....
another 45 doing cardio after.

boom boom pow

feel great, need to get my food inline more.

anyone against slow carb / low carb?

3/2/2012 4:06:21 PM

From my earlier comment yes smath interval training is good for fat burning but almost no one does it. Go to lake Johnson or any gym in the country and you see people toiling away at a medium pace (without a shampoo bottle shoved up their ass) on treadmills, ellipticals, or jogging around the circle looking miserable.

These people often are overweight too. How is it possible that overweight people can run a 3 mile loop in 9-10 minute miles? Obviously they are running frequently to get that type of conditioning. Why aren't they burning fat?

Why does every HS guy on the cross country team look like they belong in a jewish extermination camp instead of having a ripped physique?

Cardio just isn't very effective for burning fat. You can waste hours a week on it, be miserable doing it for the most part, and get almost no results. People train for marathons and lose 5 lbs of fat. After the 5 lbs, boom it ends. It's a waste for the most part for fat loss.

My buddy is a powerlifter and gets the credit for this one. Girls always tell him they don't want to lift weights because they're scared they'll get bulky. His response "Bitch, you weigh 160 pounds you ARE bulky" hahaha. Always cracks me up.

[Edited on March 2, 2012 at 5:25 PM. Reason : a]

3/2/2012 5:24:38 PM

please tell me more....

3/2/2012 5:45:54 PM

Make sure to ask him for proven studies...

3/2/2012 5:48:12 PM

there are plenty to choose from. Studies prove cardio is relatively ineffective for weight loss. (interval training is an exception). Just do the research if you don't believe me.

I havent read all of these specifically, just throwing out several of the first hits on google. This is widely known that cardio is not good for fat burning. Why is cardio so popular? Because it's easy and gyms love to promote easy ways to get in shape because people will do them. Very few people like hard workouts.

http://www.fitness-nutrition-weightloss.com/is-your-cardio-a-waste-of-time.html

http://www.mensfitnessandmore.com/2010/cardio-no-for-fat-loss/08/14/

http://www.askfitnesscoach.com/should-i-be-doing-long-runs-or-walks-to-lose-weight-angela-s/

http://www.healthylifestyletrainer.com/weight-loss-weightlifting-cardio-what-works-and-what-doesnt/


[Edited on March 2, 2012 at 5:54 PM. Reason : a]

3/2/2012 5:49:57 PM

Quote :

"Cardio just isn't very effective for burning fat. You can waste hours a week on it, be miserable doing it for the most part, and get almost no results. People train for marathons and lose 5 lbs of fat. After the 5 lbs, boom it ends. It's a waste for the most part for fat loss. "

I mean, cardio does burn calories. No one can really deny that. The problem is that it ends up being a negligible amount of calories that can be wiped out when you eat 6 oreos. What makes it worse is that cardio (low-medium intensity running) doesn't promote muscle growth, it promotes muscle efficiency.

It comes across as dogmatic, but virtually any person that wants a better physique (whether that involves putting on muscle, losing fat, performing better athletically, or just looking better in general) needs to be doing some form of progressive resistance training. There aren't enough in the world for women that shy away from weight training because they're afraid of getting bulky. It's a silly misconception perpetuated by fitness magazines.

3/2/2012 6:00:50 PM

not to be rude...but every link you offered was trying to get me to signup for their product

3/2/2012 6:03:09 PM

those were just the first hits off google so not surprising.

Do any amount of research and they all say cardio is ineffective for burning fat.

Now it is good for your heart and does have some health benefits so I'm not discouraging you from doing it if you enjoy it.

I tend to walk Lake Johnson ~1-2 times a week when it's nice out just because I enjoy it on my recovery days and I mix a few sprints and jogs in there. I seldom ever run for more than 2 minutes though because I want to keep it anaerobic for the running portion so that I get more benefit out of it.

There's a lot more to exercise and dieting than people think. Not everyone responds the same way to diets/training but it's a simple fact that all calories are not created equal and likewise not all calories burned via exercise are equal either.

3/2/2012 6:35:20 PM

When trying to lose fat, modifying your diet should be first priority. Then strength training. Followed by low intensity activity/cardio.

3/2/2012 7:37:10 PM

speaking just about exercise... low intensity cardio is good for getting rid of visceral fat - it won't necessarily translate to anything significant on the scale, but the health benefits are great. I mostly recommend this (walking 30-45min per day) to special populations who need to see a change in health when they go to the doctor, not necessarily weight loss.

3/2/2012 8:16:02 PM

Quote :

"Our recommendation when trying to lose weight is to find a complete program that includes proper counseling in nutrition, strength training and cardio. Don’t set yourself up for failure with a weight loss program by only making changes in a single area."

don't let those articles get you to think what the truth is. They aren't saying to NOT do cardio. They say you suggesting a more complete exercise/nutrition program for better results.


People let articles like those justify their lack of motivation and desire to get out and exercise.

3/2/2012 8:21:41 PM

I've lost 8.7 lbs in 2 weeks

3/3/2012 1:59:15 PM

just finished filming the workout video. I'm pooped.

3/3/2012 2:01:33 PM

Got in a nice 30minute dynamic work out in today. Hopefully adding this in will help get my bench press out of a rut.

Mixed Box and depth jumps. 10 total jumps.
Speed Bench - 185 8x3. Rotating grips and eccentric tempo. 1min rest breaks. 215 2x1
Muscle Ups 5x2.
Unloaded Barbell Complex: (RDL, Bent Over Row, Hang Clean, Front Squat, Press, Back Squat, Good Morning)x8each seamlessly.





[Edited on March 3, 2012 at 2:36 PM. Reason : autocorrect]

3/3/2012 2:34:21 PM

are there any good alternatives to pull ups I can do at home with no extra equipment? I'm stuck at home waiting for the carpet people to come by... i have a pull up bar, but I can only do one or two at a time (still working on getting up there) but I still want to work out the "pull up muscles"

3/3/2012 2:41:01 PM

Negatives and static holds

3/3/2012 2:58:52 PM

What type of diet/nutrition plan do most follow here?

I've been inundated with 3 different types lately...after having a resting expenditure test, multiple bod pos...and 3 different nutritionists recommend 3 different ways to go about things...I'm a little more confused that I thought I would be.

lean protein, lots of veggies, some type of carb/fiber...

What does that look like help burn fat, promote weightloss, and fuel one's body for an active lifestyle?

3/3/2012 3:08:48 PM

Eat whole, unprocessed foods, stay away from sugar. It is pretty much that simple, track your calories if you aren't seeing the weight loss you would like and then start cutting back on your calories.

3/3/2012 3:30:43 PM

^ what he said. Eating as clean as possible and getting in lots of lean protein and fruits/veggies is always the best. Make sure you're getting in enough calories but not overdoing it.

3/3/2012 4:02:07 PM

Red meat and potatoes. Nothing else.

3/3/2012 4:07:58 PM

Smath74, Seems counter productive there

3/3/2012 4:15:12 PM

but oh so delicious!

3/3/2012 4:20:01 PM

Intermittent fasting seems to work best for most people. Leangains.com is probably the best source for info

3/3/2012 4:31:13 PM

I tried intermittent fasting and didn't find much success with it. Like you said, it seems to work for most people but obviously it's not for everyone.

I think the thing about reaching goals is that there is the common sense approach (eating healthy and working out) and it's a matter of you figuring out what works best for you. Some need more carbs than others, some don't need any at all. Some need more cardio and some less. I think once I stopped looking at what others were doing and focused on what worked for me, everything seemed to fall into place very nicely.

3/3/2012 4:35:40 PM

Quote :

"What type of diet/nutrition plan do most follow here? I've been inundated with 3 different types lately...after having a resting expenditure test, multiple bod pos...and 3 different nutritionists recommend 3 different ways to go about things...I'm a little more confused that I thought I would be. lean protein, lots of veggies, some type of carb/fiber... What does that look like help burn fat, promote weightloss, and fuel one's body for an active lifestyle?"

Still intermittent fasting, have been doing it for the past 2-3 months and have adjusted quite nicely.

Macronutrient and calorie requirements don't really change on a fasting schedule, the only thing that changes is meal timing in relation to training. Fasting could be done without training at all, but if you like to eat like I do, lifting is going to make the program far easier to stick to. This is what a a few days might look like for me:

Monday: Rest day. Sunday night eating ends at 10:00 PM, go to work at 10:00 AM, eat first meal (some kind of meat, probably 80-100g protein worth, with some veggies and maybe some fruit). Between 10:00 PM Sunday and 2:30 PM Monday, the only thing I consume is caffeine, beverages, and fish oil. Feeding ends by 10:00 PM Monday. Rest day macronutrient is very high protein, very low carb. I've been trying to limit carb intake to 100g or less on rest days, protein should be 200g+ (I'm about 210 lbs, 6' 3"). Calorie intake is typically 2100-2400.

Tuesday: Training day. Some as rest day, nothing is consumed until around 2:30 PM. Lunch is similarly high in protein, but maybe with a serving of carbs. Lift from 7:20-8:20 PM, eat a high carb, high protein meal after. This meal might be 2000 calories or more. Total calories for the day comes out to about 3200. Feeding ends by 10 or 11 PM.

And that's really about it. Sometimes I train two days in a row. On a deload week (a week where I'm purposely lowering my lifts to recover), I might lower calorie intake every day to get in some extra fat loss. I've been losing about a pound and a half a week for the last 6 weeks or so. Hoping to keep that up all the way down to 185.

The great thing about fasting is that it's flexible, and it's easy to stay disciplined. You don't break the fast early because that stops fat loss. Anything more than 50 calories or so will break the fast. When you know that, you're more likely to stick to it. The hunger is very mild and passes pretty quickly. If you need to not fast for a day due to social obligations or whatever, it's not a big deal.

3/3/2012 4:48:09 PM

Weighed in yesterday at 208 and did

Squats: 225x5x3
Bench press: 140x5x3
Dead lift: 315x5x1
Curls: 37.5x10x1

3/3/2012 4:53:08 PM

my diet changes drastically based on what I'm doing. 5-7 meals per day of high protein moderate carb meals when I'm bulking, and only 2-3 high protein/moderate fat meals a day with very little carb intake when I'm dieting. I'll take in sucrose/dextrose along with protein immediately following a workout, and the remaining carbs usually come sparingly from spinach, celery, broccoli, and pineapple.

3/3/2012 5:01:55 PM

^i generally eat the same way

on off days i stick with slower & lower carbs and at right before/after workouts my meals are faster carbs and higher in content

i wish Bali-Hai would use brown rice for their fried rice, would people honestly taste the difference? I tend to eat there 2-3x week and make 2 meals out of it. High protein, high veggie, moderate carbs, low fat

Curry Rice in Cary/Morrisville has a great "healthy" & local menu, however their spicy isn't very spicy

Peace China also has really good chinese food with identifiable pieces of meat

Crazyfire of course is awesome but too expensive for me to eat more frequently

3/4/2012 10:00:18 AM

^I am curious, what are you basing the superiority of brown rice on?

Most credible sources I've read state that brown rice is inferior for nitrogen retention and actually acts as an anti-nutrient, making the bio-availability of nutrients on par with white rice.

3/4/2012 11:30:02 AM

http://diabetes.webmd.com/news/20100614/brown-rice-vs-white-rice-which-is-better

3/4/2012 11:40:37 AM

All that article talks about is reducing the risk of type 2 diabetes with brown rice.

If you strength train, have a non sedentary lifestyle and don't have ridic bad body comp, type 2 diabetes is a non factor.

3/4/2012 11:58:42 AM

oh the white rice doesn't bother me, hence i eat there 2-3x a week already and split it into 4-6 meals but part of my job has me finding healthy alternatives and at a good price for individuals who may have health issues and for society as a whole, lots of fatties out in the real world

3/4/2012 12:03:49 PM

word, that's understandable.

There is just so much misinformation and dogma that floats around the nutrition world. I feel like I am fighting a constant rush tide of half truths and incorrect assumptions.

Whole grains are not that much better for you. If insulin (in)sensitivity is an issue due to being sedentary or having terrible body comp., going low carb is a better answer than shifting to whole grains.

The difference between high/low GI foods is negligible in real world applications for the average person.

3/4/2012 12:18:10 PM

I think that Miracle Noodle might be a good alternative....

3/4/2012 2:00:12 PM

Quote :

"Miracle Noodle"

3/4/2012 2:15:08 PM

Have you ever had it?

I never have..but it has to be better than whole wheat pasta...which sucks,

3/4/2012 2:24:47 PM

lol my GF does the miracle noodle shit against my recommendation.

Stuff looks gross, smells gross, and is just filler fiber.

3/4/2012 3:11:31 PM

I think someone on here tried it and said it was disgusting.

3/4/2012 4:08:52 PM

mmmmmm... filler fiber...


i've been looking for something to serve as a substitute for pasta in my spaghetti... i love the sauce i make, but there are way too many carbs in most pasta, and spaghetti squash is a pain in the ass. Where do you people get that miracle noodle stuff? I'd rather get a small amount than order a shit ton of it for 30 bucks before I know I'll like it.

3/4/2012 4:19:02 PM

check the grocery stores for low carb pasta, i don't see it at every store but you'll find 5-7g net carb/serving pastas out there

3/4/2012 4:22:47 PM

Try quinoa pasta - it can be found at most grocery stores in the pasta section.

3/4/2012 4:37:21 PM

I tried dreamfields pasta once and it made me so gassy and bloated. It was just awful.

3/4/2012 4:38:56 PM