sounds like a good thursday

5/30/2012 6:33:09 PM

a teenager. talking about sex? and drugs?


well I never.

5/30/2012 6:34:53 PM

Quote :

"Good human beings call the police when they see a druggie loitering in the rain in their neighborhoods, and then defend themselves when the suspended thug attacks."

I assume Zimmerman knew Martin and his "history" from what you said. Is that right? I wasn't aware that he did. Because the police reports from the autopsy said that Martin wasn't high and had only traces of chemicals from weed in his system at the time. So unless he knew Martin then I'm not really all that sure why he would report this druggie.

Are we espousing morality now? Trayvon was far from an All-American boy but so was Zimmerman obviously given the following:

- In 2005, Zimmerman, then 20, was arrested and charged with “resisting officer with violence” and “battery of law enforcement officer,” both which are third-degree felonies. The charge was reduced to “resisting officer without violence” and then waived when he entered an alcohol education program. Contemporaneous accounts indicate he shoved an officer who was questioning a friend for alleged underage drinking at an Orange County bar.

- In August 2005, Zimmerman’s ex-fiancee, Veronica Zuazo, filed a civil motion for a restraining order alleging domestic violence. Zimmerman counterfiled for a restraining order against Zuazo. The competing claims were resolved with both restraining orders being granted.

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 6:40 PM. Reason : x]

5/30/2012 6:38:58 PM

Good thing this thread exists in TSB, so that we can avoid the buffoonery of Chit Chat...

5/30/2012 7:08:05 PM

Quote :

"What is up with this black people speak as of late? I thought black people were trying to buck the stereotypes. The way they talk just makes them look ignorant and stupid"

Lol...

5/30/2012 10:50:50 PM

Quote :

"Much in the same way as you classifying abortion as "murder" when it is a legal act."

And, as far as Germany was concerned, it was a legal act when Hitler had millions of Jews killed. Doesn't mean it wasn't murder. The point? There are meanings to words beyond legal definitions.

5/31/2012 12:01:47 AM

Impressive job, aaronburro. We made it 21 pages before Godwin's law kicked in.

5/31/2012 12:07:12 AM

I do what I can. except, in this case, it's fucking relevant

5/31/2012 12:10:14 AM

Quote :

"And, as far as Germany...Hitler... Jews... murder "

totally relevant itt

5/31/2012 12:11:12 AM

completely. one person said something couldn't be murder if it wasn't illegal. I showed specifically a situation that was legal when it occurred, yet that is still considered murder.

5/31/2012 7:39:44 PM

aaronburro I thought you were against the murder of the innocent.

5/31/2012 10:53:50 PM

Quote :

"There are meanings to words beyond legal definitions."

As long as the word isn't 'marriage', amirite?

6/1/2012 8:54:45 AM

lol you guys are owning aaronburro hard but yeah, he's right on this, it's fucking murder to stalk and shoot an unarmed teenager; even if he got a few good hits in on you once your ignorant, tiny-penised, wannabe mallcop ass confronted him up close and personal.


[Edited on June 1, 2012 at 12:32 PM. Reason : .]

6/1/2012 12:31:07 PM

I think you're looking for the chit chat thread

6/1/2012 1:12:50 PM

^^McDanger, I hate to break it to you pal, but nothing you claim is supported by evidence.

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/5/27/44552/1872

6/1/2012 4:47:01 PM

6/1/2012 7:25:56 PM

yeah, let's review the logic there, Kurtis. TM is scared of a guy who is following him. he is so scared that he runs away from him. then, inexplicably, he turns around and heads TOWARDS the guy he is scared of. yep. brilliant logic

6/2/2012 6:39:44 PM

But from all the evidence that appears to be exactly what happened. I don't understand what you're getting at.

6/2/2012 9:09:29 PM

so, "all the evidence" points to the most absurd thing that could possibly have happened, yet you say that's what must have happened. more likely, you are simply ignoring other evidence that suggests something else

6/2/2012 10:20:42 PM

Show it to me and if it's more compelling than everything else that's been released I'll change my opinion.

6/2/2012 11:15:17 PM

so...TM wasn't followed and Zim didn't get out of his car? I'm pretty sure both of those had to occur for this situation to have happened. I'm all for "bad guys" to get their come uppins, but you can't "smoke em out" vigilante style. That's why we have laws and the punishments aren't supposed to occur until after you actually catch them in the act/attempt. That and a CC doesn't make you the local sheriff. Self-defense ended when he stepped out of the car to provoke the guy.

6/4/2012 10:40:51 AM

^Not at all correct. Even saying, "what are you doing here, you don't belong here" or something similar does not give that person the right to start pummeling you.

I'm not saying that Zimmerman is some blameless paradigm of humanity to be admired by all, but from everything that is known about this case it appears that he's not actually guilty of any criminal offense.

6/4/2012 5:05:06 PM

except possibly murder

6/4/2012 5:17:49 PM

Quote :

"Even saying, "what are you doing here, you don't belong here" or something similar does not give that person the right to start pummeling you."

Given the fact that he got out of his car, that he followed Trayvon, that he had a gun on his person,and his history of assaulting other people, he more than likely initiated the assault. Of course, we don't know that, there's no evidence, but there's no evidence that Treyovon initiated it either. In fact, from his phone call with his girlfriend, and Zimmerman's phone call with 911, they'd lead you to believe that Zimmerman initiated it.

6/4/2012 5:22:19 PM

Quote :

"Even saying, "what are you doing here, you don't belong here" or something similar does not give that person the right to start pummeling you."

Not everyone agrees with this, unfortunately. Many people seem to take the position, "If you confront or follow someone, you deserve to get your ass kicked and have no right to defend yourself, no matter how badly you're getting fucked up."

In order words, these people are supporting the initiation of force - nothing new here. Justified use of force could be anything from looking at someone the wrong way to saying something offensive.

6/4/2012 5:24:37 PM

^nah, i don't think many people are saying that he deserved to get his ass kicked if he just kindly asked "what are you doing here?"

6/4/2012 5:29:14 PM

What if it wasn't kindly at all? What he said, "Hey kid, what the fuck are you doing here?" or something else highly inflammatory? Who here is willing to legally enshrine the principle of "talk shit, get hit"?

6/4/2012 5:48:19 PM

what if he grabbed his shoulder? is there where the line is drawn?

6/4/2012 5:53:40 PM

I don't know exactly where the line should be drawn. I'd say the use of force. Touching isn't force, really - pushing, grabbing/holding, etc - that's force.

It's just ridiculous that so people claim to know the true nature of this confrontation when the evidence simply isn't there.

6/4/2012 6:04:18 PM

Quote :

"Not everyone agrees with this, unfortunately. Many people seem to take the position, "If you confront or follow someone, you deserve to get your ass kicked and have no right to defend yourself, no matter how badly you're getting fucked up." In order words, these people are supporting the initiation of force - nothing new here. Justified use of force could be anything from looking at someone the wrong way to saying something offensive."

No one has said this.

What has been said is that Zimmerman's actions (i.e., following Martin in his vehicle and then on foot) could be reasonably considered threatening. What has also been said is that the situation was wholly Zimmerman's creation.

6/4/2012 10:40:12 PM

he should've just taken the ass whipping and left the gun out of it. you win some, you lose some. but you live.....you live to fight another day.

6/5/2012 10:52:06 AM

6/5/2012 10:59:00 AM

Quote :

"he should've just taken the ass whipping and left the gun out of it. you win some, you lose some. but you live.....you live to fight another day."

To be devil's advocate... you could say the same thing in Martin's case. If things did go according to Zimmerman's story, then Martin should've just kept walking away and not have turned around to to fight. Might still be alive today.

Both guys were acting stupid, it's just that one had a gun an the other didn't. I feel no sympathy for either.

6/5/2012 12:41:37 PM

You feel no sympathy for either, as long as the prerequisites of your assumption are met at least.

There are really two basic ways this story could have never happened:
1. Trayvon Martin didn't go to the store and walk back to his father's house.
2. George Zimmerman didn't get out of his car and follow Martin.

Now which of these sounds like looking for a confrontation?

6/5/2012 1:18:27 PM

Quote :

"There are really two basic ways this story could have never happened: 1. Trayvon Martin didn't turn around to confront the man following him. 2. George Zimmerman didn't get out of his car and follow Martin."

Logic fail. Fixed it for you.

Like mama always said, the smart man always walks away from a fight. Neither was smart enough to do so that night. Martin should've just kept walking home. Or let the Zimmerman and the police arrest him for doing nothing wrong. He may still be alive. And obviously, Zimmerman should've stayed in his car. Like I said, according to the evidence, both guys were in the wrong. It's just that one had a gun.

6/5/2012 1:35:40 PM

Why is it so difficult for some of you to realize that it is very possible to inflict great bodily harm or death quite easily with one's hands and feet?

Just "taking it" can quickly result in death/brain injury etc.

6/5/2012 1:58:07 PM

Quote :

"Martin should've just kept walking home. Or let the Zimmerman and the police arrest him for doing nothing wrong."

haha. did you seriously just type that?

6/5/2012 2:12:24 PM

Quote :

"1. Trayvon Martin didn't turn around to confront the man following him."

As far as I'm aware, only Zimmerman's testimony implies this happened. If you disregard his testimony, it's equally likely that Zimmerman caught up with Martin, shoved him, thus initiating a fight he soon started losing.

If I had to guess who would start the fight between an unarmed teenager and a fully grown, armed, wannabe cop...

[Edited on June 5, 2012 at 2:21 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2012 2:15:11 PM

You should only stand up for yourself when you have a gun.

6/5/2012 2:15:22 PM

Turns out the whole "What if the races were switched?" scenario basically happened already: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2012/03/22/1076889/-Black-Shooter-of-White-Victim-in-Florida-Claimed-Stand-Your-Ground-still-went-to-Court


Oh, there're statistics too: http://www.tampabay.com/news/publicsafety/races-complex-role/1233152

Quote :

"A Tampa Bay Times analysis of nearly 200 cases — the first to examine the role of race in "stand your ground" — found that people who killed a black person walked free 73 percent of the time, while those who killed a white person went free 59 percent of the time. "

[Edited on June 5, 2012 at 2:20 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2012 2:19:39 PM

Quote :

"As far as I'm aware, only Zimmerman's testimony implies this happened. If you disregard his testimony, it's equally likely that Zimmerman caught up with Martin, shoved him, thus initiating a fight he soon started losing."

Exactly, like I said, I'm not going to play the guessing game. I'm only basing my opinion on the current evidence.

If you start hypothesizing too much, then it throws all your arguments way out the window (like most of the people on here... maybe too many Harry Potter books, eh?). Heck, an alien could've come down, shot Martin, beat Zimmerman up, and wiped his memory and replaced it a new one.

Quote :

"haha. did you seriously just type that?"

Yes, I did. If I were in his shoes, that's what I would've done. At night, someone is stalking you in their SUV, it's dark. I'm actually running at this point. Who in their right mind would turn back and confront this stranger who's stalking them? Only someone who's stupid enough to do it.

Quote :

"You should only stand up for yourself when you have a gun."

Sure, you can stand up for yourself, at night, in the dark, against some stranger, who you have no clue why he's following you. Very smart move. Personally, I'd run and hide. Only dumb blondes from scary movies actually go looking for the monster.

Like I keep saying, neither of these guys are that smart. Hence why I don't have sympathy for either.

[Edited on June 5, 2012 at 2:30 PM. Reason : ...]

6/5/2012 2:20:51 PM

It's hilarious to me how conservatives only pop up with this "WE CANNOT GUESS AT THAT WHICH WE HAVE NO EVIDENCE OF..." line when someone suggests a scenario that isn't the marihuana-crazed black thug gangster jumping out of the sewer to assault the noble Mr. Zimmerman as he courageously defended his neighborhood. Yet they don't even recognize their own extrapolations and assumptions as they occur.

Tell me, what evidence do you have that Martin turned around to confront Zimmerman?

[Edited on June 5, 2012 at 2:25 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2012 2:22:29 PM

I was referring to this:

Quote :

"Or let the Zimmerman and the police arrest him for doing nothing wrong.""

You seriously suggested that Martin should have let some random man with a gun abduct him. Jesus.

6/5/2012 2:44:15 PM

If I were in his shoes, that's what I would've done. At night, someone is stalking you in their SUV, it's dark. I'm actually running at this point. Then I let him arrest me and hop in his van so he can take me to the police station.

[Edited on June 5, 2012 at 2:46 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2012 2:46:04 PM

alright....everybody start following xvang IRL and lets see how many times he runs vs. how many times he turns around.

6/5/2012 3:07:48 PM

The proof is in the pudding. The police call, the busted knuckles, shot in the chest, etc...

Y'all making it out like Trayvon was some innocent kid who was enjoying his Skittles and stopped to smell the flowers when he got shot. Seriously?

He should've ran. And ironically he did run according to the police call. Zimmerman even lost sight of him at one point. But, Trayvon didn't run home. Instead he some how ended up back in Zimmerman's presence and in the confrontation.

Not saying Trayvon doesn't have a right to defend himself. Not saying he should've let Zimmerman abduct him (not sure where your reading comprehension went astray). Just saying he did not make the smart decision. Neither did Zimmerman. No sympathy for either guy.

On that note, you guys win. Last one to post wins. Thus is the way of life in the tdub.

[Edited on June 5, 2012 at 3:12 PM. Reason : I always run... 'tis the life of a small asian man... we use our speed and agility to our advantage]

6/5/2012 3:10:29 PM

Quote :

"The proof is in the pudding. The police call, the busted knuckles, shot in the chest, etc.."

That's only proof that he was in an altercation and was shot. There's no proof there whatsoever that he confronted Zimmerman or started the fight. You're assuming it, don't even recognize it as an assumption, yet try to criticize people for "hypotheses not predicated on evidence."

Quote :

"Y'all making it out like Trayvon was some innocent kid who was enjoying his Skittles and stopped to smell the flowers when he got shot. Seriously?"

That is literally, exactly what he was at that time.

Quote :

"He should've ran. And ironically he did run according to the police call. Zimmerman even lost sight of him at one point. But, Trayvon didn't run home. Instead he some how ended up back in Zimmerman's presence and in the confrontation."

Hm. So it seems that Trayvon's motivation was to escape, and Zimmerman's motivation was to catch him. Trayvon ran away, and Zimmerman pursued him, and they later were in a confrontation. I wonder whose motivation is more likely to lead to a confrontation?

Why would Trayvon run for a while, then decide to turn around again and attack a person he had just formerly been running from?

Quote :

"Not saying he should've let Zimmerman abduct him (not sure where your reading comprehension went astray)."

It might have been the part where you said "Martin should've just kept walking home. Or let the Zimmerman and the police arrest him for doing nothing wrong."

Quote :

"Just saying he did not make the smart decision."

You have no idea what decision he made, you just have assumptions about his behavior that aren't backed up by the evidence, just you filling in the gaps with your desire to make this at best be a "Ohh I guess everyone's at fault situation." so you can appear even-handed.

Quote :

"On that note, you guys win. Last one to post wins. Thus is the way of life in the tdub."

You're an idiot chock full of his own evidence less assumptions, and this is just your clumsy way of exiting what has become an embarrassing defense of your own stupid statements.

[Edited on June 5, 2012 at 3:20 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2012 3:19:30 PM

Quote :

"Zimmerman even lost sight of him at one point. But, Trayvon didn't run home. "

yes, run home so the person following you knows where you live.

Quote :

"Instead he some how ended up back in Zimmerman's presence and in the confrontation. "

sounds like speculation / guesswork to me.

6/5/2012 3:29:20 PM

Quote :

"Turns out the whole "What if the races were switched?" scenario basically happened already:"

By your own link, what happened here with the Zimmerman case is what also happened in that case. So much for Zimmerman being let off because he was white and the victim was black.

Quote :

"James' wife, Kanina James, can't understand why Dooley is free. "It's over and it's done and it can't be undone," she said on the phone to a friend Monday morning. "Yeah, they caught him and they let him go. I don't know why.""

Also per the time stamps on the articles linked, the shooting occurred in Sept 2010, and Dooley went to trial in Feb of 2012

Seems like the wheels of justice grind faster when the victim is black. Or was that not the point your were trying to make?

6/5/2012 7:33:58 PM

^ it took massive nationwide outcry for Zimmerman to be brought it.

And the trial for zimmerman isn't expect to start until next year, at the earliest, either.

As it stands, a superficial comparison of these cases would seem to indicate the legal system in Fl is harder on blacks than non-blacks.

6/5/2012 11:27:02 PM