^^ you're misinterpreting his statement, replace "toy" with "superfluous luxury for enjoyment and entertainment" or something else.

His point is correct

1/2/2013 3:00:07 PM

Quote :

"would you like some anecdotal evidence of folks who were assaulted/murdered in areas most folks would consider "safe"?"

No need, look at the murder rates, they'll be less than the chances of getting hit by a car. You'd be safer wearing a reflective vest at all times rather than a firearm.

Quote :

"No gun is a toy"

If you buy one just to play with it, I would consider it a toy.

Quote :

"no modern gun is inherently more safe or dangerous than any other gun"

So a pellet gun is just as dangerous as a magnum?

Quote :

"ARs and AKs were not designed to be luxury items."

They were not designed for just being used on the range, they weren't designed for hunting, they weren't designed for home defense. They were designed to kill large groups of people, a purpose that you will never use it for. You'll use it as a toy, a fashion accesory, a doll.

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 3:02 PM. Reason : ]

1/2/2013 3:01:37 PM

Quote :

"There is a psychology aspect to it and its one that probably should be looked at if we are in a "gun control" discussion. Of course, that discussion shouldn't involve people saying you're a paranoid freak."

Nah, yo. A person who carries all the time should be taken as seriously when discussing personal safety as a man with a handlebar mustache should be taken when discussing philosophy or politics.

It's just funny to listen to them pretend that they're little boy scouts, prepared for their own safety and the safety of others. Would you take them seriously if they wore a bullet proof vest at all times? That'd keep them just as safe from these armed burglars out there who are supposedly pillaging and plundering their suburbs.

There's this positive stigma that people try to attach to gun lovers as being prepared for this dangerous world out there.

Somebody even used the Aurora shooting as evidence of needing to be prepared (and they'll no doubt cite that as an aberration when the discussion turns toward gun control...an aberration that should not be considered in terms of regulation).

And somehow we're supposed to respect this mentality? As if it's somehow not worthy of scorn and ridicule? Their mindset literally boils down to a Cypress Hillian philosophy of "I ain't goin' out like dat." Except, they're not coming out the slums.

1/2/2013 3:16:50 PM

^,^^ great job, guys. do us all a favor and keep going. you're making a better case for the pro-gun camp than they could ever make in their own words.

several posts from both of you and nary a fact or figure to stand on. you can't win, so you have to resort to gross hyperbole, speculation, and outright making shit up.

1/2/2013 3:24:17 PM

What's the reason you need or want an AR or AK variant or 100rd drum magazines? There isn't one, its for your entertainment and fun. It's a luxury item.

1/2/2013 3:33:04 PM

Two words:

Red

Dawn.

I rest my case.

1/2/2013 3:35:11 PM

my AR-15 variant is primarily for varmint hunting (destructive animals like groundhogs, beavers, coyotes, etc). it's lightweight, accurate, ergonomic, rugged, reliable, allows for quick follow-up shots, and didn't cost me any more than any other quality varmint rifle.

those same characteristics make it a very good choice for home defense. .223 defense rounds are less likely to penetrate walls than most handgun defense rounds like 9mm, .45 ACP, etc.

and, yes, it's fun to target shoot with it. it's a comfortable rifle that is easy to shoot accurately.

i have no use for a 100 rd drum mag because they usually jam and they're extremely heavy and cumbersome. not to mention that it only takes 2-3 seconds longer to fire off three 30 rd mags.

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 3:43 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/2/2013 3:42:20 PM

There are plenty of small calibre lightweight, compact rifles. Why did you need that one? Or did you just want it because you liked it as you just stated. That's what he meant by "toy".

1/2/2013 3:44:30 PM

so what makes the AR-15 more dangerous than those other rifles you mention?

i like the ergonomics of the pistol grip and the fact that the stock is in line with the barrel, which reduces muzzle rise under recoil and allows faster follow-up shots.

also like that the thing is unbelievably simple and easy for anyone to work on. parts are easy to get. it's highly customizable. .223 is an excellent varmint round and it's cheap and plentiful, even cheaper if you reload them like i do.

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 4:00 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/2/2013 3:49:18 PM

I never said it was more dangerous, only that its not needed. It's a grown mans doll.

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 4:02 PM. Reason : Looks great with affliction shirts ]

1/2/2013 4:01:41 PM

so are the other rifles needed?

1/2/2013 4:02:53 PM

To some people

1/2/2013 4:03:40 PM

but what makes the AR-15 different? i'm not following you.

1/2/2013 4:04:19 PM

What makes an Affliction shirt different than a wal-mart pocket T?

1/2/2013 4:06:04 PM

what is affliction?

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 4:07 PM. Reason : thread has devolved to stereotyping and trolling ]

1/2/2013 4:06:26 PM

Asks question:

Quote :

"There are plenty of small calibre lightweight, compact rifles. Why did you need that one? Or did you just want it because you liked it as you just stated. That's what he meant by "toy"."

Receives answer:

Quote :

"i like the ergonomics of the pistol grip and the fact that the stock is in line with the barrel, which reduces muzzle rise under recoil and allows faster follow-up shots. also like that the thing is unbelievably simple and easy for anyone to work on. parts are easy to get. it's highly customizable. .223 is an excellent varmint round and it's cheap and plentiful, even cheaper if you reload them like i do."

Response:

Quote :

"I never said it was more dangerous, only that its not needed. It's a grown mans doll."

Definitely a serious discussion going on here...

1/2/2013 4:08:05 PM

^^It's the AR-15 of t-shirts

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 4:09 PM. Reason : .]

1/2/2013 4:08:16 PM

^^^...and fashion, apparently (had to google Affliction clothing)

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 4:08 PM. Reason : ]

1/2/2013 4:08:19 PM

Fashion is exactly why people get guns like this

1/2/2013 4:10:01 PM

i actually really hate the way the AR-15 looks. it's ugly as sin. however, in my search for an accurate, lightweight, compact, semi-automatic varmint rifle, i just couldn't find anything that fit the bill as good as the AR-15. i'm not worried about scratching it up or dropping it like i would be with some nicer, more pleasant-looking rifles. i wrapped a bunch of camo tape around it and i'm not scared to drag it through the bushes.

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 4:15 PM. Reason : df]

1/2/2013 4:15:17 PM

Or a cheaper rifle, less macho rifle like a savage 10 or ruger 77

1/2/2013 4:18:58 PM

wanted a semi-automatic

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 4:19 PM. Reason : handy when coyotes come in in pairs]

i've got a savage 12 (variation of the savage 10 but with a heavy varmint barrel). it cost just as much as my AR-15 variant.

[Edited on January 2, 2013 at 4:24 PM. Reason : asdf]

1/2/2013 4:19:23 PM

Bass Pro has one for $630, so riiight

1/2/2013 4:32:47 PM

i built my AR for about $700

1/2/2013 4:33:46 PM

dtownral do you really know anything about guns?

1/2/2013 5:27:55 PM

Of course he doesn't.

1/2/2013 5:39:27 PM

ARs are considered macho now?

News to me.

1/2/2013 5:42:54 PM

before they went mainstream they were considered underpowered poodle-shooters

1/2/2013 6:21:59 PM

I like the look of the Bushmaster ACR, but that shit's like, a lot of money.

1/2/2013 9:30:14 PM

I know enough abut guns to be allowed to carry my hand gun concealed (although I use this mostly for easier transporting and purchasing instead of carrying) and am an occasional hunter with family land down east.

1/2/2013 9:34:42 PM

.... just so most of you non gun people know....


.223 is a weak round and someone who's all ar crazy like its the best gun in the world is usually mocked behind his back by other shooters..... But we all own one because they are great guns.

Its not really a grown man's doll it's more of a grown man's ruger 10/22 (which is one of the most popular "first guns" as it is not much more powerful than a bb gun) Its a gun that's highly customizable and relatively light weight.

Regular .22 caliber guns are "rim fire" which isn't a very reliable form of igniting the powder and can actually be dangerous as rounds that don't fire can be ejected and finally fire a few seconds (up to a minute) later. .223 is a more powerful .22 round that is center fire meaning it has a real, typically reliable primer in it. The gun is incredibly reliable if maintained properly and not used with stupid gimmicks like 100 rnd drum mags ( no marksman in their right mind would ever consider a drum mag for anything other then dumping a few rounds to impress someone... in my experience shooting i've never seen 100rnd drum fire completely through without a malfunction.

Every hunting gun i own is chambered in a round significantly more powerful than the round my ar-15 fires.

I don't know what i'm trying to say is all guns are deadly in the wrong hands... the AR-15 i think is more a victim of it's popularity and reliability then it is "more dangerous" than any other, non scary looking gun.

1/3/2013 8:18:00 AM

Drum magazines in my experience run like shit and thats probably what kept Aurora from being 10x worse.

Also:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/01/02/illinois-dems-press-forward-with-gun-control-bills-firearms-group-warns-no/

Illinois supposedly going after pump shotguns too... Armalite could be moving operations to another state?

1/3/2013 9:30:44 AM

for the record (and I <3 foo1)...


poo-pooing on one firearm's ammunition type against another is a bit extreme for any argument. I don't think it validate one gun's 'assaultiness' over another, ever. A well (or mis-)placed .22LR round to the body can make for a bad fucking day for anyone; especially reminds me of that story from H8R's post in the 'crazy family stories' thread.


re-read the post, I see and agree.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 9:57 AM. Reason : -]

1/3/2013 9:55:57 AM

I wasn't shitting on the round or the gun at all i'm just dr.p...

fuck i own one and i love it...
I'm just trying to let people know it's not the gun or the round or anything like that it's just the people

I almost brought up the reason our military selected it but figured that would be a little much for this thread.

1/3/2013 10:03:16 AM

Quote :

"my AR-15 variant is primarily for varmint hunting"

Quote :

"i have no use for a 100 rd drum mag because they usually jam and they're extremely heavy and cumbersome. not to mention that it only takes 2-3 seconds longer to fire off three 30 rd mags."

You have way too many varmints, or you like to pretend you are Rambo. I'm betting on the latter.

But if you really do have a varmint problem, you can buy a trap for like $20, not have to chase the animal down, not have to worry about damaging anything, and not have to clean up animal blood.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 10:15 AM. Reason : ]

1/3/2013 10:12:30 AM

Why cant you simply accept its the best tool for the job at hand?

Oh yeah, politics.

1/3/2013 10:15:57 AM

How is an assault rifle better at dealing with varmints than a trap?

1/3/2013 10:25:53 AM

^how is someone who has no experience with varmint hunting arguing that one method is better than the other?

Also, once again an ar15 is not an assault rifle.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 10:42 AM. Reason : .]

1/3/2013 10:41:25 AM

please stay focused. i'm not gonna sit here and debate the best way to keep coyote and beaver populations in check. rest assured that no chasing or blood clean-up is involved and that the shots taken are safe.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 10:44 AM. Reason : asdf]

1/3/2013 10:42:38 AM

I guess Kris can at least abandon one liberal position then... animal cruelty/humane killing.

Traps maim far more often and I seriously doubt NRR ever wounds anything...

1/3/2013 10:46:11 AM

if the varmint isn't killed immediately, the AR allows for a fast follow-up shot

this thread shows the problem with gun control legislation. folks who have little experience with firearms form misguided opinions and make up laws that will have no effect on them to impose on the rest of us.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 10:58 AM. Reason : asdf]

1/3/2013 10:48:46 AM

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/boy-6-suspended-from-silver-spring-school-for-pointing-finger-like-a-gun/2013/01/02/21acc8d4-54fc-11e2-8b9e-dd8773594efc_story.html

1/3/2013 12:04:29 PM

Quote :

"how is someone who has no experience with varmint hunting arguing that one method is better than the other?"

You don't know my experience hunting or anything else. I do know that professionals use traps for small animals.

I don't know why you don't want to admit that it's more of a toy than anything else. That's why you like customizing it and knowing how fast you can shoot through 300 rounds of ammunition.

Quote :

"I guess Kris can at least abandon one liberal position then... animal cruelty/humane killing."

I've never cared about that.

Quote :

"this thread shows the problem with gun control legislation. folks who have little experience with firearms form misguided opinions and make up laws that will have no effect on them to impose on the rest of us."

I agree it shows the problem with gun control legislation, but it's that people are willing to talk about being able to keep toys they don't even need as a life or death issue. It's a toy, you should frame the gun control debate around keeping the guns that around keeping the guns that actually have a purpose rather than acting pretentious because the other side of the debate doesn't pretend to be Rambo in man-child like fantasies, and thus think they know everything there is to know about guns.

1/3/2013 12:14:55 PM

Where the fuck do some of you people live? Varmints? Coyotes?

Jesus Christ. How the hell are you even connected to the internet right now? Shouldn't you be outside, picking boysenberries or something?

If nature is that goddamn threatening, maybe you should pack up and join the rest of civilization and move into town, where we have indoor plumbing and grocery stores.

1/3/2013 12:38:05 PM

you're only making yourselves look stupid at this point

1/3/2013 12:39:19 PM

don't blow their mind my pointing out that the necessary tools they have for required protection of things from varmints is really hunting by choice

1/3/2013 12:40:17 PM

Quote :

"I agree it shows the problem with gun control legislation, but it's that people are willing to talk about being able to keep toys they don't even need as a life or death issue. It's a toy, you should frame the gun control debate around keeping the guns that around keeping the guns that actually have a purpose rather than acting pretentious because the other side of the debate doesn't pretend to be Rambo in man-child like fantasies, and thus think they know everything there is to know about guns."

-Kris

Maybe you should frame the debate in a way that doesnt include copy and pasting, since you obviously are (probably from some blog), and arent very good at it.

Quote :

"don't blow their mind my pointing out that the necessary tools they have for required protection of things from varmints is really hunting by choice"

-dtownral

What the fuck is this? Are you guys so mad at this point that youre stammering through your fingers?


[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 12:43 PM. Reason : -]

1/3/2013 12:41:56 PM

what about my post seemed mad to you?

1/3/2013 12:48:53 PM

^he was left to speculate, since you weren't able to form a coherent/complete sentence.

for someone who seems to think so highly of their intelligence, you sure are fucking dumb.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 12:53 PM. Reason : lol, toyz]

1/3/2013 12:52:25 PM

^^It doesnt really seem mad... Its just one of the most awkward sentences ive ever read here.

It was a perfect follow-up to Kris' hurrr-de-durrr, but of course the rest of us are the knuckle-dragging troglodytes here because we have barbaric hobbies.

[Edited on January 3, 2013 at 12:53 PM. Reason : -]

1/3/2013 12:53:07 PM