Quote :

"We can win big again tonight and that will still drop."

We aren't playing tonight. You would think with your superfan season ticket status you would know that...

Quote :

"Dude, you're already saying that we have the best roster this year, but not producing, even though ACC-play hasn't even started and Tracy has missed the whole season. And you're sticking with this stupid argument about coaches being fired after no NCAA tournament appearances after year five. But year five is just beginning for Sid. How about waiting at least a few games into ACC with Tracy back before you start talking about "results"?"

Can't be said enough.
We have a grand total of 2 games (one a preseason game) in which our most important player has been reasonably healthy and you are trying to make comparative statements about Lowe based shit you made up based on a very limited data set. You are just making up hypothetical situations in your head and flipping out that everyone isn't buying into them.

1/3/2011 12:25:17 PM

I think people need to realize something; Adding one skilled player to a team does not give you a team that's exactly the same plus one more guy. There is a synergetic quality to Smith's returning to the court. Our forwards now get to play a way they are more familiar with (Howell mentioned after the SD game that he just knows where Tracy is on the court, they have a good game relationship), Smith is a legit inside presence on both ends of the court which changes the way teams play us, opening opportunities around the perimeter. Our forwards get to pull down more rebounds since they aren't busy trying to post up. We have a legitimate experience senior leader under the basket who can pull our younger talent under there together and help them stay focused. A lot of things happen with Tracy back, and I hope it has a huge impact on our game. I don't think it necessarily makes Tracy a top 10 pick if it changes our game that much, it just means he's that important to our team.

1/3/2011 6:46:03 PM

very excited to have tracy back. we will be much better.

sidney still has no credibility though.

1/3/2011 6:47:07 PM

Quote :

"the last 4 years are irrelevant why do you keep bringing them up? We had shitty talent for the most part. Everyone agrees season 2 we underachieved, but look at season 4 we won 20 fucking games and made a legit ACC tourney run with a shitty roster."

and who's job is it to get the talent? do we have a draft and a general manager now I don't know abouit

1/3/2011 7:08:31 PM

What a stupid post, jprince11

1/3/2011 7:14:23 PM

As far as talent, Sid got Tracy, who's developed nicely (and hickson). He kinda whiffed in '08, but Williams is a good role player and "glue guy". and then he got Howell and Wood, who played well as freshmen and are playing even better as sophomores, and Deshawn has really stepped-up this year in Tracy's absence. And then, of course, Brown, Leslie and Harrow, who are already playing pretty good as freshmen and will only get better. Sid hasn't done too bad getting talent.

So who's coming in next year? Is Uchebo officially in the '11 class? I read on this board that Tyler Harris might be re-classifying to '12? And then there's Tyler Lewis in '12, who just broke a 3-game scoring record set by Chris Paul.

1/3/2011 8:33:48 PM

Quote :

"and who's job is it to get the talent? do we have a draft and a general manager now I don't know abouit"

Jesus if theres two kinds of people I hate in this world its fat kids and UNC fans. Im getting trolled by both in one post!

Which is it fatboy, do you like ice cream or basketball?

ITS SIDNEYS TEAM HE WANTED BARTOSZ LEWANDOSKI!!!!!!!

Great point you have there, Sidney sucks at recruiting. It's a really fresh and original idea you came up with...

Shut the fuck up faggot.

1/3/2011 9:55:38 PM

Hey rally, don't you have some economics threads to also be wrong about in TSB you're ignoring these days?

1/3/2011 10:07:44 PM

LOL, Florida State just lost to Auburn. Yes, the same Auburn who has lost to UNC-Asheville, Campbell, Presbyterian and Sam Houston State so far this year...

I know this doesn't have to do with Sidney Lowe but it does have to do with Rally's random postings.

[Edited on January 3, 2011 at 10:50 PM. Reason : x]

1/3/2011 10:50:12 PM

Quote :

"Sid got Tracy, who's developed nicely"

thats a good point. my biggest knock on sid is that his players dont develop or improve from year one to year four. my biggest example is always javi. even in his senior year...when he runs the offense he goes to one side of the floor. dribbles until there are 10 seconds left on the shot clock, and then starts the javi show where he waits for 2 seconds and shoots a terrible shot (and sometimes makes it)

but the fact that tracy has developed nicely is a very good counter argument

1/3/2011 11:30:16 PM

Fsu lost good, its looking more and more like we can compete in the acc this year.

Not sure what you're referring to chance? I've been dominating the stock market and economics in general since late 2008 thanks to austrian economics. Before that all I had was a trusty econ degree from our liberal arts university so ill admit almost all my economic arguments were based on fallacy.


As far as sports go, I've pretty much dominated this place as long as I've posted here.

State will be good this year, eat it haters. Join the suicide watch now

1/4/2011 1:56:44 AM

haha face reminds me exactly of my alcoholic friend on the internet, the same jumping to conclusions incoherently just to be an asshole, and where did you get I was fat from?

1/4/2011 2:26:36 AM

lots of domination going on in this thread. i personally dominated a chocolate croissant for breakfast this morning.

[Edited on January 4, 2011 at 8:19 AM. Reason : .]

1/4/2011 8:17:56 AM

Quote :

" my biggest example is always javi"

If you don't see Javi's massive amount of improvement you really are retarded. He was never supposed to come in and be the answer at PG.

1/4/2011 8:36:41 AM

Oh my bad I thought this was the thread where we throw out wild generalizations about everything.

Please direct me to the one where we intelligently discuss state basketball

1/4/2011 8:44:46 AM

^^I'm iffy on Javi's "improvement".

Has he improved?? Yes...he's improved a lot. But he also had nowhere to go but up. It's almost like, "if he plays a lot of basketball in the ACC for four years, he has to get a lot better." He was abysmal as a freshmen and now is finally a "serviceable" point guard. After being a four year starter, he's losing minutes to an undersized, erratic, turnover prone freshmen (who I still think is awesome).

Tracy Smith is definitely Sid's best example of player improvement under his tutelage. As far as point guards go...I expected a lot more in recruiting and developing talent from this staff with a ton of PG experience.

1/4/2011 8:53:27 AM

javi has improved leaps and bounds, and has been mentioned, he was never supposed to be an Al-ACC poing guard. When he's playing his best, he can hang with any point guard in the ACC. Of course, he plays bad as often as he plays good.

Quote :

"an undersized, erratic, turnover prone freshmen"

Do you watch the games? Harrow handles the ball pretty well, especially for a flashy freshman point guard. He's averaging 1.5 TOs and is 6th in the ACC in A/T ration (2.2 in 22 minutes).

[Edited on January 4, 2011 at 9:19 AM. Reason : ]

1/4/2011 9:18:32 AM

Javi is comparable to Larry Drew right now. LD started out as a Mcdonalds all American. Javi was a last minute recruit to provide backup at the PG position. He was forced into starting by multiple injuries.

1/4/2011 9:29:32 AM

Quote :

"When he's playing his best, he can hang with any point guard in the ACC."

This is not true. He can still get shut down when he's playing his best. When playing his best, Javi can hit open shots and not turn the ball over. He'll add the occasional drive to the basket, but his "best" can still be "bested" by other good point guards.

And I agree that he's improved a lot...I'm just saying that it's much easier to improve a lot when you start off horrible.

I watch the games...Harrow is an amazing ball-handler, but he's still a little careless. I definitely want him on the court more than I do Javi...which I feel bad about because Javi has worked his ass off here and been put in a tough position from day one.

1/4/2011 9:32:46 AM

Yeah, I was stretching it a little with Javi "being able to hang with any ACC pg when he's playing his best". But when he's on fire, he's an above average ACC pg. OF course, he's a sub-par pg just as often, if not more. BUt my point being, he has improved leaps and bounds since his freshmen year. He and Tracy both developed nicely. And Wood, Howell, and Painter seem to be developing nicely.

1/4/2011 9:50:54 AM

Harrow has looked really good against inferior opponents and really bad against our good opponents.

He's young, small, and getting adjusted to playing with the big boys. He's a natural pure point guard though and if he can ever develop a shot he'll be a great player the next three years.

In reality he's just not ready to be a starter in the ACC yet. He is a serviceable backup though and he'll prob have a few games where he really helps us out before the season is over.


Javi on the other hand is a solid pg some games and a liabilty others. He's got a ton of experience to go along with a pretty good skillset so we're all hoping he can put it all together and help save our season. In all likelihood he'll still be fairly inconsistent but if we can get 10-12 good games out of him in ACC play, we've got enough strengths elsewhere that we can still make noise this year.

1/4/2011 9:51:44 AM

I think having Lorenzo Brown is going to do wonders for our PG situation. He makes good decisions, is a good ball handler, and can create his own shot and shots for others. Playing him at the 2 takes a lot of weight off of the PG.

1/4/2011 11:45:11 AM

Im very excited about our future at the PG position. But back to this

Quote :

"But when he's on fire, he's an above average ACC pg."

when javi is on fire...it just means he is making his crap shots at the end of the shot clock. he doesnt ever run the offense well, his perceived level of play just comes down to whether or not he hits the shot that he is forced to take with 1 second left on the shot clock. if he makes it...'he's on fire and an above average acc pg.' (not really) and when he misses it he is exposed as somebody who cant run the offense.

1/4/2011 12:24:02 PM

^nah man, when he's playing well, javi is fully capable of running the offense. i think you're letting a few plays where he heaved up desperation shots at the end of the shot clock influence your overall perception of his play.

1/4/2011 12:36:52 PM

Sid detractors again showing a black-and-white take on everything

Javi can't be decent, he's either great or he's trash

1/4/2011 1:42:26 PM

javi is an undersized 2 guard who was forced to play PG

he's really not that good at it either, but having guys like julius mays (another undersized 2 guard) and courtney fells/gavin grant play the position in recent years makes us appreciate the flashes javi gives

rallydurham actually has Harrow pegged right now. he can shit on the San Diego's of the world because it's like he's back in high school but the top schools give him problems b/c of his size. I'd probably still rate him over javi at this point because the offense runs better with him in there but the difference is pretty marginal

1/4/2011 1:47:11 PM

Quote :

"Javi can't be decent, he's either great or he's trash"

He use to be trash...now he's just slightly below average.

1/4/2011 1:53:12 PM

Come on man

We all want something better than Javi, but he's not below average for any league, not even the ACC. I'd put him squarely in the "average" classification. He's not a guy who's going to be running a top-ten team, but he does everything well enough.

1/4/2011 2:01:36 PM

And his "average" rating comes from a culmination of extremes. Sometimes he gets this edge on him where he comes down the court, drives, finds open lanes, dishes balls to open players, causes motion, and gets us great points on the offensive end of the floor and looks great..

And it seems like just as often he walks down, passes the ball around the horn, gets no motion on offense, does nothing to move the defense around, attempts no moves to get anyone open, waits for the shot clock to expire, and puts up hail Marys and looks horrible..

It's really odd, I feel like very few of his possessions fall into the "decent offensive attempts" category.

1/4/2011 2:08:56 PM

i don't know where this "javi is a 2, forced to play the 1" comes from. i think that's just the default thing to say when you aren't pleased w/ your pg play.

i can think of maybe two games ever where javi demonstrated to me that he would be well suited to play the 2. however, i can think of many more games where javi demonstrated to me that he is well suited to play the 1. so according to me, he is NOT a "natural 2".

unrelated: i wish i had my posts where i defended potentially hiring steve lavin handy. i'm not going to search for them, but he looks to be finding his way well at st. johns.

[Edited on January 4, 2011 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2011 2:10:41 PM

Quote :

"I'd put him squarely in the "average" classification."

I like to compare Javi to Justin Gainey. Both are/were undersized point guards, forced to handle the load as freshmen (and all 4 years), and both playing a little bit over their heads. Only real difference being that Gainey was probably more of a true point guard while Javi is a tad more athletic.

Gainey was average to slightly above average.

Javi is slightly below average. Career 39% FG, 2.9 assists and 2.4 TO (that's pretty damn bad), 35% 3pt FG, and 70 ft%. So he's an average 3pt and ft shooter, below average overall shooter and below average point guard stats (assists and turnovers).

We're just going to have to disagree on this, sorry.



Actually...shit, I might have to take that back. They had pretty similar stats...except I can't find Gainey's turnover numbers, although I don't remember him being a turnover machine. He did average more steals than Javi.

[Edited on January 4, 2011 at 2:16 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2011 2:11:41 PM

Quote :

"i don't know where this "javi is a 2, forced to play the 1" comes from."

Quote :

"Career 39% FG, 2.9 assists and 2.4 TO (that's pretty damn bad), 35% 3pt FG, and 70 ft%."

And when he's not busy being the guy trying to run the offense, I've seen him more often than not make open shots (3's or mid jumpers). so he's definitely a capable shooter, just not a creator in situations where the defense is entrenched.

1/4/2011 2:15:30 PM

So a 0.6 difference in turnovers per game is the difference between below average and above average? Because Javi either beats or matches Gainey in every other category you mentioned.

1/4/2011 2:16:18 PM

Quote :

"So a 0.6 difference in turnovers per game is the difference between below average and above average? Because Javi either beats or matches Gainey in every other category you mentioned."

I said Gainey was average to slightly above average and javi was slightly below average. Not that big of a difference between average and slightly below average (key word, [/b]slightly[b]). Although barely, Gainey averaged more points, less turnovers, and a somewhat significantly better ft%. He might not have shot better than Javi from three point land, but his overall fg% was the same (which means he finished better). And he played with a less talented team (Danny Strong ftmfw!).

I also felt much more comfortable with the ball in Gainey's hand that I do Javi's. When Javi has the ball, I worry that he will turnover it over and I want him to pass it to someone else. I was at ease when Gainey had the ball (probably also didn't want him to pass it to anyone else except for CC).

[Edited on January 4, 2011 at 2:26 PM. Reason : .]

1/4/2011 2:23:35 PM

Quote :

"so he's definitely a capable shooter, just not a creator in situations where the defense is entrenched."

maybe this is just me, but i think a good shooting guard should be able to both shoot and penetrate. especially when your small forward is scott wood.

and don't get me wrong, i love scott wood, and i love how he plays. but someone out there needs to be able to get to the basket, and i want that person to be lorenzo brown w/ javi and harrow getting minutes at the 1. then howell can get every board out there and tracy can be the best forward in the acc. boom, awesome team.

1/4/2011 2:35:44 PM

Quote :

"but i think a good shooting guard should be able to both shoot and penetrate."

Those should be the two first things that shooting guards HAVE to do. Shit, I would like for them to be able to penetrate first. You're not always going to be able to get a 3-point shot off...but you can always drive to the basket.

Our drought of good shooting guards is about as bad as our drought of point guards. Hodge could count, but he also played a lot of SF and was not that great of a shooter. I miss the Grundy's and and C.C.'s of the past.

1/4/2011 2:43:15 PM

dude, the drought is over. once lorenzo brown stops turning the ball over trying to do too much he's going to dominate every night.

my language is a joke, but the spirit of my post is very serious. i love that kid. (he's definitely not a one and done though, for all of you idiots that believed gunzz in the offseason).

1/4/2011 2:48:24 PM

I agree. I think Brown is the best pure shooting guard we've had since Monroe.

CC and Grundy were awesome....but CC was streaky and never saw a shot he didn't like...and Grundy had that crazy ass shot and could be streaky himself (although he's probably my favorite State bball player ever).

But I'm definitely a big fan of Brown.

1/4/2011 3:00:14 PM

you can't not love brown. he plays hard the whole time, hustles on defense, gets scrappy on both sides of the court, has a beautiful game, doesn't get out of control except for a pass that gets too fancy, changes speed better than anyone this program's seen in years and years.

awesome kid. just wish he wasn't a freshman, or at least didn't make it obvious a few times each game.

1/4/2011 3:06:15 PM

Brown has the highest turnover rate on the team

1/4/2011 4:02:13 PM

^^^ I'm gonna wait till lo brown leads us to an upset in the dean dome, or hits multiple game winners in acc play, before i put him in the same category as cc harrison. not saying brown won't do it, but man, cc carried a team on his back and gave us some exciting moments. gotta give him his proper respect!!

1/4/2011 4:16:41 PM

^^ like i said, i can't wait until he's not a freshman.

the thing about brown is, he's not cj leslie just going balls out into the lane and losing the ball out of bounds. he just tries to get too cute w/ it sometimes. he'll get it sorted out sooner than leslie will.

1/4/2011 6:28:13 PM

Everyone knows this team has chemistry,and I think Tracy is the reagent (not catalyst) that's going to speed up the gelling process.

The team looked much more focused in the last game, like they knew what they were doing.

I know the were playing against a shitty team, but in games past, the team's looked lost on the court sometimes.

The 3 freshmen (and scott) have been the leading scorers, and they're all having freshmen moments.

Tracy's return should take a lot of pressure off the rest of the team.

And the big guys will have all benefited from the extra minutes.

1/4/2011 6:48:06 PM

Quote :

"i don't know where this "javi is a 2, forced to play the 1" comes from. i think that's just the default thing to say when you aren't pleased w/ your pg play."

i mean i dont see how its any different than saying a guy is a 1 just because he's short. is nolan smith a point guard? if lorenzo brown was 5'11 what would you classify him as?

maybe he isn't an ideal 2 guard either but he's at least a "combo" guard. when javi is rolling best he's a scorer who can pass, not a passer who can score. we've even played him at SG some. he can shoot decently and even rebounds well for his size. ideally we would have brought in a guy like Harrow a year or two ago and javi could have been playing 20 minutes a game between the 1 and 2

mays was listed as a SG by scout and even played off the ball in high school until the pg at marion was kicked off the team. but we tried to make him play PG

1/4/2011 8:37:09 PM

Julius Mays was definitely a 2 forced to play the 1

1/4/2011 8:46:20 PM

He was also a white man in a black man's body

1/4/2011 9:38:09 PM

yeah it's a bit unfair to say he was a 2 playing the 1, b/c the truth is he was just too slow to play any position in the acc.

1/4/2011 9:46:30 PM

Quote :

"Yeah, I was stretching it a little with Javi "being able to hang with any ACC pg when he's playing his best". But when he's on fire, he's an above average ACC pg. OF course, he's a sub-par pg just as often, if not more. BUt my point being, he has improved leaps and bounds since his freshmen year. He and Tracy both developed nicely. And Wood, Howell, and Painter seem to be developing nicely. "

The worst thing about Javi's game, IMO, is his defense.

He can get on a streak and hit a few 3's and make a few good passes, but an upper tier ACC PG can blow by Javi 9 times out of 10.

Javi's decision making is also pretty bad. He seems to always try to be the hero that ends a run for the other team......and it's usually always a terrible shot that has a 50/50 chance of hitting anything. There's also usually at least 20+ seconds on the shot clock when he throws up said terrible shot.

Javi is semi-serviceable...I thought the Drew II comparison was pretty accurate. Looks pretty solid at times, but really, really bad at others.

1/4/2011 10:10:15 PM

^to that point, I can't understand why people keep bitching about Ryan Harrow's defense. IMO his biggest problem is not being strong enough to fight through screens but he's able to keep dudes in front of him. Javi on the other hand can't do shit on offense if his 3 isn't falling and basically doesn't stay in front of anyone.


I think the only reason Harrow isn't playing more is that we may be worried about his conditioning...not now but for later in the season. Plus, it would be nice to see Javi step up and start playing well and I don't mind giving him the PT in the early season games.

1/4/2011 10:27:32 PM

Give me the martini drinking ape from Congo over this travesty.

1/5/2011 7:39:34 PM