you said it would have been upsetting if we didnt win easily...i wouldve been perfectly happy with a 7 or 8 point win, although obviously i was much happier with the actual results

but if we had won by 7-8, you wouldve complained about how we shouldve beaten them by a lot more

since we did win convincingly, you basically dismiss it as being nothing since Wake is a bad team, kind of like how you dismissed Javi's improvement because of how bad he was to start, and he had nowhere to go but up

it just gets tiring to hear all the negativity AFTER WINS

1/8/2011 10:54:14 PM

Nothing negative is being said. If anything we're just shitting on how bad Wake Forest is.

Javi is still not worthy of starting in the ACC. Sad but true. Harrow is clearly balling at a higher level than he is and most of us have been saying that all year. I mean Javi again today did nothing. I don't see what's wrong with saying Harrow is clearly better?

Plus Javi's attidude fucking blows and I personally think takes away, Harrow has a great attitude

[Edited on January 8, 2011 at 10:59 PM. Reason : attitudes]

1/8/2011 10:57:19 PM

Fine. Let's kill this until after the BC loss.

1/8/2011 10:58:44 PM

I agree Harrow is better. I'm just saying earlier in this thread you weren't willing to give Lowe any credit for Javi improving over his time at State, kind of like how you don't seem to be giving us credit for a great win today. And I mean great as in how we played, not the opponent we beat.

You don't have to convince me that Harrow is better than Javi, I've very seldom been a Javi fan, but its just an example I used of where you downplay positive things about Lowe.

1/8/2011 10:59:11 PM

Fine. Let's kill this until after the BC loss.

1/8/2011 11:00:23 PM

I'm not sure Javi has improved that much, has he?

Sure, he has more experience so anyone is going to naturally get somewhat better that has played in this league as much as he has. He hasn't developed into a solid ACC point guard, though. Still throws the ball away, still can't shoot, still takes horrible shots at the absolute worst times, and doesn't appear to have much in the "leadership" department, either

I'm not saying this to criticize Lowe...I'm saying it because it's the truth. i think the debate is whether Javi didn't improve alot because Lowe can't develop players or becuase Javi had a low ceiling to begin with and is as hardheaded as they come. That won't be answered until we see how Harrow turn out, IMO.

Don't want to bash Javi because he seems to really give alot of effort, he's just not a very good point guard...especially considering he's a senior.

1/9/2011 12:56:21 AM

Fine. Let's kill this until after the BC loss.

1/9/2011 12:57:08 AM

PackBoozie must be a UNC homer. I bet he loves to take it up the ass

1/9/2011 1:03:49 AM

Javi isnt really a point guard, he is a shooting guard trapped in a point guards body.

1/9/2011 1:27:46 AM

Javi has certainly improved since his freshman year. Anybody who watched him bounce the ball off his own foot multiple times against Carolina his freshman year (when they beat us by about 50) knows that.

He has developed a pretty good three-point shot, doesn't turn the ball over AS MUCH, and has a couple good assists now and then.

I honestly think the guy just doesn't have that high of a ceiling, and is not much of a leader to begin with. I don't think he was ever recruited to be THE GUY at point guard. More of a energy role player off the bench. But, as we saw his freshman year, he was thrust into the fire early and often due to injury and other circumstances.

Now if Harrow is here for 3 years, and doesn't get any better, then that's on Lowe. The kid was a blue-chip recruit, and supposedly has a super high ceiling. We shall see.

1/9/2011 10:21:00 AM

Quote :

"Javi isnt really a point guard, he is a shooting guard trapped in a point guards body."

Basically he's not a good player no matter what position he plays.

1/9/2011 11:07:19 AM

I feel like Javi is similar to Atsur. He has been in the same system for so long that he knows what Sidney is going to do in almost every situation. Now he is more of a game manager for Lowes system than anything. Atsur was a better player and point guard than Javi is, but I think their progress is similar.

and I agree, Harrow should be an absolute stud if hes here for the next 4 years (similar to Chris Wright in Georgetown)

1/9/2011 11:17:08 AM

atsur only played for lowe for one year, though.

1/9/2011 11:20:12 AM

^^Don't ever again fucking compare Javi to Atsur. Atsur learned more about Lowe's offense in half a season than Javi has in 4 years.

[Edited on January 9, 2011 at 11:40 AM. Reason : ]

1/9/2011 11:40:18 AM

Quote :

"Atsur learned more about Lowe's offense in half a season than Javi has in 4 years."

1/9/2011 11:43:14 AM

Quote :

"Don't ever again fucking compare Javi to Atsur."

people getting overly dramatic itt.

1/9/2011 11:56:04 AM

there's certainly a lot of over reacting and dramatizing in this thread. many a tear has been shed up in here.

1/9/2011 11:57:46 AM

i love how the term game manager has basically evolved into "shitty player who continues to play either for lack of better alternative and/or because he's a veteran"

1/9/2011 12:36:01 PM

It's shocking we are a better team with Tracy Smith really.

I mean who knew having a guy score 20 points grab 10 rebounds, play pretty good defense would help this team.

Who could have seen this coming...

I thought all along the problem was Lowe's substitution patterns and the fact that he discourages layup lines in practice!

1/9/2011 12:46:50 PM

although the point stands....was an /dramatization or /sarcasm really needed there?

1/9/2011 1:02:45 PM

wow, Javi is not going to go on the next 50 players of all time in the NBA but he has gotten much better.

Don't make me search thru the archives when he took games over last year and EVERYone was jizzing about Latin Heat. Does he make boneheaded plays still? of course. But if you guys cant see that he's improved, immensely, well, its just hateration that will never give him a chance, maybe because begrudgingly it means giving Lowe props for developing/coaching players.

I also think Ryan can run circles around him on the offensive end but javi has also become a very solid defender the last 2 years.

1/9/2011 1:12:47 PM

Quote :

"but javi has also become a very solid defender the last 2 years."

what.

he is the worst on the ball defender on the whole team. maybe you didn't notice how when he was in the game, the wake guards drove to the hoop and either scored or passed to a wide open big man (whose man had to come over to stop the man driving to the hoop because javi didn't).

sure he gets some steals, but overall he is a poor defender.

1/9/2011 2:49:15 PM

you guys can keep bashing javi all you want, but I saw what I needed to see his freshman year for him to be one of my favorite players ever, regardless of his basketball skills

Incident 1:

Playing (at?) GT, there is a stoppage in play and Javi walks past the GT players in a huddle. He puts his arms around the closest two players and gets in their huddle. Hilarious.

Incident 2:
Playing Duke, Paulus had as usual been getting ridiculous calls and flopping all over the place. A timeout was called, and Paulus walked back to the Duke bench. On the way, he passed about two feet in front of Javi who flopped HARD. Also hilarious.

So yeah, he may ebb and flow as far as being a good player, but he's still pretty awesome.

1/9/2011 3:01:21 PM

Quote :

"Playing (at?) GT, there is a stoppage in play and Javi walks past the GT players in a huddle. He puts his arms around the closest two players and gets in their huddle. Hilarious. "

Apparently Javi is unoriginal, too

Courney Fells says 'Hi'

1/9/2011 3:25:09 PM

And Brandon Costner and another guy

It looks like they're just standing near the huddle moreso than actually sticking their heads in

1/9/2011 3:31:50 PM

Quote :

"clearly balling at a higher level"

1/9/2011 4:09:04 PM

^^ no way, you dont think hes actually in their huddle. you have to be kidding me!

1/9/2011 4:13:51 PM

Quote :

"And Brandon Costner and another guy It looks like they're just standing near the huddle moreso than actually sticking their heads in "

Tough to say, but you might be right.

The hand on Hansbroughs back looks pretty dark to be Danny Green, but that might just be a bias from me WANTING it to be Courtney Fells' hand

Might just be an optical illusion. I certainly don't remember the game, but I think that's from Sid's first game vs UNC in Raleigh that we won. (At least as I remember it). You're probably right in the fact that no one seems to remember it that saw it live....and I'm pretty sure they would have

1/9/2011 6:16:58 PM

Its Brandon Wright's hand.

1/9/2011 6:18:27 PM

Green is on the other side of the huddle

That's Brandan Wright's hand

1/9/2011 6:18:50 PM

that's not courtney fells hand

1/9/2011 6:19:01 PM

And Gavin Grants head beside Costner.

1/9/2011 6:22:45 PM

Fells has that look on his face of a guy leading two horses through the water

1/9/2011 7:45:51 PM

Quote :

"Don't make me search thru the archives when he took games over last year and EVERYone was jizzing about Latin Heat."

When the fuck did that happen?? Hitting two threes in a row is not "taking over a game."

Although the "flopping" in front of Paulus is pretty fucking hilarious. That moves him up a few notches in my book.

1/9/2011 7:47:57 PM

lol at this guy calling someone out for exaggerating

1/9/2011 7:48:38 PM

I never exaggerate...always 100% completely serious.

1/9/2011 7:50:01 PM

Seriously off base

1/9/2011 7:50:32 PM

seriously

1/9/2011 7:54:40 PM

Quote :

"When the fuck did that happen?? Hitting two threes in a row is not "taking over a game.""

18 pts against Duke as a freshman, 4 games with 8 assists last year (including win against Duke in which he had 15 points and only 2 turnovers). Overall he has had quite a few games with people slobbing his knob.

1/9/2011 8:55:12 PM

please, don't mention the past or anything like that on tww. we apparently have goldfish brains.

1/9/2011 9:06:52 PM

Latin Heat poasts are funny. Doesn't mean he can play point guard.

1/9/2011 9:10:55 PM

Good grief, reading adder's post makes my head hurt.

1/9/2011 9:16:15 PM

^Boozie 2.0 actual information makes your head hurt?

1/9/2011 9:43:28 PM

Tim Hall reads TWW:

Quote :

"Harrow leads Pack in scoring, but that doesn't mean he'll be starting soon By Tim Hall Jan 7, 2011 Ryan Harrow is averaging 11.3 points per game. That leads the Wolfpack. Technically he's tied with Tracy Smith for average but his 158 points leads the team. His free throw percentage is a ridiculous 94 percent. He's averaging more minutes per game than fellow point guard Javi Gonzalez. But Gonzalez has the title as starter. He's started all 14 games to Harrow's zero. Head coach Sidney Lowe looked at that situation from Harrow's perspective on his Wolfpack Sports Network radio show the other night. "What I like about this now is he's not asking about starting, he's not saying 'why am I not starting?', he understands all I have to do is play as hard as I can and play the right way and do the right things, I'm going to play minutes," Lowe said. "That's what coach told us, and that's what I'm gonna do. It's worked out that way for him in several games. Sometimes it's better to have that guy coming off your bench as opposed to have him in your starting lineup." So don't expect a change to be coming anytime soon, and don't expect it to be a huge deal either. There are certain players that work better knowing they're starting the game, and apparently Harrow is one of those players that hasn't made a big deal out of it. Plus it's not like he's setting the world on fire so much that it's creating a huge controversy. Javi Gonzalez plays better defense and warrants some minutes, but Harrow is obviously scoring the ball better. They both bring something. Until Harrow is averaging 25 points per game and gets a chip on his shoulder, he'll probably work just fine coming off the bench. Heck, Manu Ginobili came off the bench for years and he's a 20 point per game guy."

[Edited on January 10, 2011 at 10:04 AM. Reason : ]

1/10/2011 10:04:04 AM

Javi played really, really well on Saturday.

He drove into some lanes,

he went around the horn and picked up double teams (opening up other players who he passed to)

he played decent defense, but WF had a lot of guys who could drive. Our defensive scheme did really well having Tracy down under the basket to move over and help next to the basket.

He showed more brilliance than he did crap on Saturday, and you guys are all hating if you don't think that is great improvement since he started playing here four years ago.

(Plus, overall, his defense is better than Harrow's)

1/10/2011 10:59:57 AM

^ this wayyy too much facts for some people on here

1/10/2011 12:08:26 PM

if Javi played "really, really well" on Saturday, I guess Harrow played "really, really, really, really well" and Tracy played "out of his fucking mind awesome"

1/10/2011 12:22:26 PM

Javi played his role really well.

1/10/2011 1:06:11 PM

^^Really really well is a relative term to each player, you trolly asshole. And Javi played it.

1/10/2011 4:19:13 PM

pad

1/10/2011 10:43:01 PM