are you jewish?

6/8/2009 2:56:38 PM

so i'm finishing classes right. i'm working on one paper now that is due on monday and i finished another one a few weeks ago (after missing like 1.5 months of school). i got my grade back and i'm pretty happy! B+ in international business transactions.

for having to teach myself A LOT and catch up on A LOT and stare at other people's notes (which is honestly like reading something in chinese, because i don't understand why they wrote certain words down) i think i did pretty well. i mean i probably wouldn't have done that much better had i been in the class for the last month and a half if i can get a B+ on this next paper, then i will have salvaged 6 hours and they WON'T be destroying my gpa like everyone thought would happen.

i'm pretty happy. go me.

6/10/2009 12:36:30 PM

^ You fucking rock

6/11/2009 11:04:31 AM

I can't wait to get this last year over with. I am so fucking tired of school.

6/11/2009 2:19:41 PM

Just general advice:

1. Don't go to law school and imagine coming out making $50k, let alone 100k. The market is bad, firms are on hiring freeze and no longer offering cost of living raises.

2. Don't go to a lower tier school and expect to come out in the top of the class.

3. I would think long and hard about enrolling in ANY private law school right now, especially those that are not established. If you did not get into a school you liked, I would consider waiting an additional year and reapply in early September. A lot of schools accepted too many people early and as a result rejected a lot of people that would have gotten in otherwise,

4. Bar Exam: Depending who you know, you can find out your results early. If you are with a big firm, find out if anyone is grading. They will call and let you know when it is concluded.

6/23/2009 2:42:46 PM

^^^^ GG

6/23/2009 3:26:54 PM

thanks

^^ all good advice. i'd only go to a private school if you get a hefty scholarship.

i think after law school i will move on to nursing school or medical school. i'm so over law school / being an attorney.

6/23/2009 3:58:04 PM

JennMc, any advice on how to study for the bar? daily schedules, etc. etc.? just seems like there is WAAAAY too much stuff to fit in my head, let alone remember at the end of the month.

6/23/2009 5:20:14 PM

ok, final thoughts on my situation.

I got rejected from just about every school that I applied to except:

Again my stats were 150/3.77 with a TON of extracurricular activities geared towards international focus, great LOR's (Dr., Judge, Lawyer), 2 years internship at a law firm in Raleigh. Alot of dropped charges (all very explainable and most in high school), one drinking ticket conviction.

Accepted at Charlotte ($5,000 scholarship), and NC Central's night program...

Waitlisted at Chapman, William and Mary, South Carolina, and Central's day program. doubtful that I'll get into any of these except maybe Central's day program.

rejected from - Virgina and Vandy (duh), American, Loyola Chicago, Campbell, Charleston, Tulane, Maryland, and Wake Forest. I should have applied to more safety schools...I think these were all a bit over my head for a 150 lsat

Should I work and reapply next year, get a master's, take the part-time option (9 hours/semester) to get into the full time by spring, or go full time in the fall to Charlotte?

Last question: If I take part-time classes at Central, can I retake the LSAT and assuming I do well apply as an incoming student at say Campbell, UNC or William and Mary, not as a transfer student since I never attended full time? If I can, then I can rack up most of my first year courses doing part time to count towards wherever I get in.


thanks again for all the help.

6/23/2009 7:28:25 PM

I'm almost certain you can't do Central part time to get the first year courses, re-take the LSAT, and apply as an incoming student (as opposed to a transfer) anywhere. William and Mary makes most transfers re-take some of the first year classes. I imagine most other schools are similar in that respect. I'm pretty sure no school will let anyone exempt out/transfer credit in for any first year classes. First year is pretty structured at most schools, and they aren't very flexible with those schedules, so I don't see any benefit to doing Central part time with the idea of re-applying somewhere.

If it were me, I'd just re-take the LSAT and re-apply this fall. That's really what's hurting your application. A 10 pt jump in LSAT would probably get you into some Tier I schools, and probably some money as well.

I'd certainly not go to Charlotte. Way to expensive for a school that has 0 alumni, isn't even ranked in the 4th tier, and isn't even fully accredited yet.

6/25/2009 2:44:31 PM

^I think that's pretty solid advice. One of my good friends in law school wasn't accepted anywhere the first year she applied. So, she took a year off, took courses towards a random masters degree, and re-applied, and was accepted.

I wouldn't settle and expect to transfer, because a lot of schools really don't like that. As ^ said, they've got some pretty strict guidelines on what a 1st year student should take, and they aren't about to let just about anybody go past that.

6/25/2009 3:02:52 PM

I start the evening program at Barry University this fall. Reality is setting in ... my life is about to disappear!

Any other Barry students here? It's not a great school, but I can go there and stay with my company. Plus I got a $54k scholarship.

6/25/2009 5:15:31 PM

Okay so incoming student thing won't work but I found out that I can take 12 hours this fall at Central (and I still could get into the day division as well, hopefully) but I'd be full time in the spring for sure as long as I don't royally screw anything up. So, with that said, W&M (my target school) wants 24 hours for a transfer, I assume they mean from a full time program so is it possible that I may have one foot in the door so to speak since I'm waitlisted there and maybe if I place in the top third of the class (as per the website) then I could transfer?

I'm running out of options because my political science degree isn't going to help me get a job making more than $10 an hour and that's not enough to live off of, I'd have to move home....which really is not an option anyway. This whole process has been a mindfuck honestly.

6/25/2009 5:58:55 PM

i think i'd retake the LSAT as well and just wait. like everyone else said, that is honestly what is hurting you. i know you are still baffled by it, but the emphasis on that exam is obviously fairly large (as you can see through your other statistic). get a tutor or something. aim for a 160. you will at least get scholarships to lower tiered schools and may be able to get in to a W&M.

i mean seriously don't put all your eggs in one basket banking on transferring. the # of transfers schools take varies from year to year AND they don't take a lot. it isn't like transferring in undergrad. they might only take 5 transfer students IF that. it depends on space, etc. i would NOT bank on transferring. if you aren't happy with the options you have - wait.

i know it is tough to find a job right now, but i know plenty of people with political science (and other various humanities degrees) that have found jobs that pay more than $10 an hour. many admin assistant jobs pay 12 - 14. but the people i know have found salaried positions. it may not be the job you want, but if you're just putting off school for a year, you can just push through, ya know?

6/25/2009 8:55:02 PM

I'm just worried that my GPA fell from 3.77 when I applied earlier about 3.71 or so, and most schools will average my LSAT so I'd have to pull a miracle and take the $2,500 Kaplan program or whatever to try to get a better score. I just don't know what's the better bet. I pretested the first time I ever took it at 156 but got 150 on the exam, granted I studied about a month, maybe less.

I agree with you about the office admin jobs, and I have lots of experience in that from the law firm I interned at and from high school and I have been starting to apply to more positions but its just depressing to not even get a reply e-mail saying they got or are considering your application, etc.

the last thing is that I'm worried if I take the year off and work it'll be like no return to academics, like I'll lose the patience and the mindset, let alone the desire to continue school if I start to make okay money...

haha real world reality check 101, god I miss undergrad already.

[Edited on June 26, 2009 at 2:44 AM. Reason : .]

6/26/2009 2:25:05 AM

Just bought all my books (minus 1 supplement) for the Fall Semester for a grand total of $175 for five classes. If you hit Half.com before the rest of your classmates, it can save you hundreds of dollars. And all of my books are highlighting and writing free. Yay. I'm just a little bit happy with saving this much money.

6/26/2009 4:39:18 PM

A lot of schools will actually take the higher score, so don't feel like the prior LSAT is gonna really hold you back.

Kaplan could help, but also keep in mind that the difference between a 150 and a 156ish is only 5 questions (one per section). 9-10 more right can put you into the 160 range. The other thing that helps is that the LSAT has released so many old tests, you can practice the exact same kinds of questions you'll see on the real test. They don't vary the question types very much at all, and small increases in actual number of Q's right can mean a bigger jump in scores than you might think.

6/26/2009 5:55:49 PM

Did anyone here transition from a summer clerkship to a permanent full time position after graduation? If so, did you "know" someone in the office or were new to the office when you did the summer clerkship? Lastly, if you did transition like this, how was it brought about, did you initiate the conversation or did your employer?

I would like my summer clerkship to transition to a full time job after graduation, but don't know the likelihood or procedure to make this happen. I would imagine that at the end of the summer that I would just ask to have a meeting with the managing partner and feel it out, but I was looking for a little more guidance than that.

7/7/2009 4:47:04 PM

^ are you working as a clerk for a judge or are you working in a law firm? it sounds like you're working as a summer associate in a firm, and if that's the case, hopefully they hired you to work for the summer with the intention of you working there full-time after graduation. if they didn't then i guess they're just wasting their money and your time.

as far as getting a full-time job, just talk it up with the partners during the summer. let them know you're interested in working there after you graduate. do good work, show them that you can learn how to practice "real law" and that you're motivated. other than that, it's really out of your hands as the economy and their needs are always going to dictate their business decisions.

it helps to have someone that you "know" working at the firm, but i never find that to be the dispositive factor. i mean, a jackass that does shitty work and is lazy isn't going to get hired just because his dad's friend's friend works at the law firm. good luck and let me know if you have any more ?s.

7/7/2009 9:45:02 PM

Business is booming

Here's hoping it stays this way *knocking on wood*

[Edited on July 8, 2009 at 1:36 PM. Reason : fff]

7/8/2009 1:26:05 PM

alldaydumbass - haha, I love the applications to uva and vanderbilt, yeah, you had a great shot ...of donating your application fee... but then again I got rejected from central so what do I know...

7/8/2009 10:00:00 PM

Quote :

"Business is booming Here's hoping it stays this way *knocking on wood* "

forgive me for not going back to clarify this post, but....

did you just hang out your own shingle or something? I ask because I've been contemplating doing the same thing.

I've been out working for about 4 years now and I'm sick of it. I have the solo practice itch, and know enough people now to get some cases fed to me, I'm just debating the start up cost v. existing law school student loan debt.

7/11/2009 8:42:23 PM

So I will be spending the summer filling out my applications so that I can drop them in the mail as soon as the early applications are received, which if I remember is September/October, depending on the school. I got my LSAT score when I was on a bus in Turkey, of all places. I found out at like 2 am (the bus had WiFi of all things...that sure kicks Greyhound's ass) about an hour after I found out that Farrah Fawcett and Michael Jackson had kicked the bucket.

I'm pretty stoked. Law school, here I come.

7/12/2009 6:55:22 PM

^^^the applications went out before I realized that I did horrible on the LSAT. With a 3.77 and all my EC's if I had gotten in the 160's I probably would have had a shot and the way I see it, if $50 could yield you a life changing (relatively) opportunity then it's worth it.

I deferred all of my applications and am taking the Kaplan LSAT prep and re-applying and going to UNC grad in the mean time, which I may just say fuck it and try to go for a PhD at some point and teach

7/17/2009 1:25:56 PM

^What are you going to grad school for?

7/17/2009 1:33:52 PM

I'm just taking some classes in public policy at UNC and possibly at state too State. I didn't decide to do grad school until I got rejected from practically everywhere. I applied to an academic research position with the UNC school of government which is exciting and I hope to hear back from them, but if I don't I'll take 8 hours at UNC and 6 hours at State too.

I'm going to take Kaplan prep classes for the LSAT and the GRE, apply early decision for law and grad school and take the best option. I'm also going to apply to some UK schools too. I just really love school and learning new things honestly so I figured that even though I had really hoped to be full time in a program in the fall but I thought this was the best, more mature, and hopefully a fruitful option.

I can honestly only see myself as a professor of political science/public policy or a lawyer in the future.

and if you mean what are you going to grad school for? (not referring to the field of study) I'm going because I don't want to be academically idle, I feel like if I stop school and start working then I'd get attached to the money and either be less likely to return to school or at least let my mind dull, I really need intellectual stimulation.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 2:17 PM. Reason : .]

7/17/2009 2:10:32 PM

Yeah, I meant, which classes, field of study etc. School of Government is right next door to our law school, shares a parking lot and everything. Have you done a tour of UNC's law school yet? If you ever want to see the place or sit in on a class let me know, and I'd be happy to show you around. Be prepared that you will have a really shitty parking situation at UNC. There were 36 parking permits available to 2L's this year.

7/17/2009 2:40:03 PM

^^ As someone who has spent the last seven years working after leaving college, I can tell you that the experience has prepared me better than anything else I can think of for returning to school. I have significantly more maturity and focus, and understanding what is actually expected of someone in a profession has been invaluable. I have missed the mental stimulation, like you mentioned, but have gained many other things.

I was not a very good college student for a variety of reasons, mainly by choice, but I had an opportunity to really develop through my job (I'm a teacher) and improve my discipline and focus. As my experience increased, so did my level of professionalism and competency. Had I decided to go to law school straight away I think I would have done pretty poorly, mainly as a result of my academic habits. Just saying that as a possible reason for working a little while before trying again.

Just as an FYI, my GPA was a 2.76, and my LSAT is a 174. I think those two numbers encompass who I was in college based on effort, and who I am now based on effort.

[Edited on July 17, 2009 at 4:28 PM. Reason : h]

7/17/2009 4:27:46 PM

^^ I'd actually really like to sit in on a class sometime, it's crazy becasue right now I don't know which I would pick between a master's/phd or the jd if I got into both, I think think that could help clarify alot

^that's an impressive LSAT score for sure. I went through a similar dry spell in high school, I didn't even make it into state I actually went to ECU, hated it, came home (I'm from Raleigh) and took part time classes with a 3.528 and they let me in full time and I applied to law school with a 3.77. I think that being rejected from state, even as a legacy student, really made me fight for what I wanted and I learned to motivate myself academically and when I got into State, I framed my acceptance letter because it meant so much to me growing up and walking around the campus with my dad, junior Wolfpack club, etc. Anyways, I was a shithead in high school and racked up a bunch of (dismissed) charges that probably affect the way my applications have been looked at and I really underestimated the LSAT and didn't have time to take a prep course...but coming from a 2.7 high school GPA and the first time I made staight A's or even a 4.0 astounded myself and I learned to really appreciate academia. Bravo on the 175 though that's amazing. You can actually make a good bit on the side by teaching Kaplan prep classes.

7/17/2009 11:21:40 PM

i finally got my schedule finalized!!

i'm taking:

commercial contract drafting
secured transactions
corporate finance (1/2 the semester, then it turns into mergers and acquisitions)
child advocacy law
advanced legal problem solving (hah. it is 2 credits and i think it is pass fail, hollaaa)
social research and the law
banking law and regulation (this is a retake from last semester. ugh. i really liked the class but wasn't able to finish it so hopefully it won't be that bad since i completed like 2/3 of the course)

this works out to 18 hours. but only 16 at once (due to the corp finance/M&A split)

things could get rough

no friday classes and no classes before 11 though staying positive??? hah.

7/24/2009 5:27:00 PM

^^^ what schools are you considering? That is a damn good LSAT score!

I'm headed to school in the fall and I'm about to jump out of my skin I'm so ready for it to start

7/27/2009 3:10:47 PM

^Where are you heading? I am so ready for classes to start back for my 2L year! Summer has been way too crazy for my tastes. Finishing 1L year, getting married, working full time, and moving has been absolutely hectic.

Fall Schedule--earliest class is 11am, and every Friday off
Copyright Law
Immigration and Citizenship
Environmental Law
Family Law
Perspectives on European law

Spring Schedule--First Class is at 11am, and every Monday off
Evidence
International Law
Professional Responsibility
Carbon Trading
International Security Law

[Edited on July 27, 2009 at 3:40 PM. Reason : ]

7/27/2009 3:39:41 PM

quick question:

i can suspend my undergrad school loans even though ive been paying them for 2 years to go back to law school right?

please say of course stupid

7/27/2009 5:19:34 PM

^^ holy crap. Planning a wedding, working full time, and moving after coming off of 1L year....

I'm headed up to Harvard, which is going to be a thrill. Just got my section number, although I don't yet know what that translates into as far as classes, professors, or a schedule

7/27/2009 8:36:48 PM

^^ ummm you can defer your undergraduate loans if you go to any grad school. but i mean i wouldn't recommend going to school just to defer loans.

7/28/2009 2:06:52 AM

of course im not going into law school just to defer loans, ive PMed you over the last year about it, lol

but i stayed at work for an extra year (thank god) just so i could save some extra money and i wanted to make sure rent and food was all i had to worry about

7/28/2009 9:36:13 AM

My top 3 choices are Harvard, Georgetown, and Duke, in that order. Do you have any advice for applying to Harvard, given that you were admitted?

7/28/2009 11:15:32 AM

Harvard will be difficult with less than a 3.5 or so GPA

I wish there was advice or techniques I could tell you that overcome that, but Harvard, maybe more than any other school, seems to look at the hard numbers to narrow down most of the applicants.

Applying as early as possible will help, and spending A LOT of time on your personal statement, going through several drafts, and have it reviewed by as many qualified people as you can (editors, law school professors, lawyers, people in admissions, etc) will help [true for all schools].

I'd recommend looking at lawschoolnumbers.com if you haven't already - they have graphs for all of the law schools with who was admitted/waitlisted/rejected based on GPA and LSAT. Also useful is the Law School Probability Calculator (http://www.hourumd.com/) - although with such a dramatic split between GPA and LSAT there won't be a lot of other people with similar numbers.

Best of luck and let me know if you have any specific questions about applying!

7/28/2009 1:46:31 PM

^^Just to give you an idea: you said your "GPA was a 2.76, and LSAT is a 174." I had a 3.75 GPA with 2 majors and a minor at NCSU. I had a 174 LSAT and a pretty kick-ass resume and letters of rec. I was waitlisted and then rejected from Duke. I did a visit to Georgetown and decided not to apply, so I'm not sure if I would have gotten in there. I ended up going to UNC and didn't even get scholarships there, and I think I'm pretty qualified (I only got 1 B my 1L year, and that was in the 1 credit hour class).

I'm not trying to discourage you, but if I were you, I would put in applications to places other than those three. They will be difficult to get into.

7/28/2009 1:52:43 PM

Damn - I can't believe Duke didn't take you with those numbers!

7/28/2009 1:59:55 PM

Yeah, they waited until August to tell me too. I had already enrolled and done orientation at UNC when I got notice back.

7/28/2009 2:09:32 PM

ok so i'm compiling everything I need for my law school apps and i'll have to wait on my transcripts cause i honestly don't remember what any of my GPAs were but in the meantime I can send out my requests for LOR. which of these, or which combination, do you think would be best for law school?

here are some options and I don't know how many I need yet but it never hurts to have as many as you can available:

1) current boss (in the bag, his wife is a DA or ADA for wake county also and i'd been meaning to get up with her too) (I also have 2 other sub-bosses so if it's cool to rack em up I can)
2) past boss (this was a high school-college job that i held for 6 years, not really relevant to law school other than to show i worked my ass off during school)
3) CMPD Police Sergeants (interned for 6 months, was told I was the best they'd had come in)
4) college professors (this is my weakest, i could name maybe 2 that might remember me or that I had for more than 1 class over the years, wasnt a great student until the last 2 years)
5) family friend (this one is just for namedropping, nationally recognized and very popular sports surgeon, known for half my life and actually lived with family for a year)

7/28/2009 8:15:42 PM

Well, there's no way I'd ever consider applying with that GPA if I was right out of school, but since I am 7 years out of school and based on other soft factors, Those are on my list. I have many other schools as well, though.

7/28/2009 9:09:51 PM

^^ IIRC most schools want to see at least one letter from an academic person, but if you have been out of school for a while you can probably get by without one. But I would really try to include one.

2-3 letters is the norm, I don't think any school requires more than 2 and several request no more than 3.

I would tend to think the past boss is probably not the right choice. The job will be on your resume, which will demonstrate that you were working in college. Also, many of the applications I filled out actually had sections that wanted you to list how many hours you were working during school and during the summers.

The Police Sergeants could be an interesting choice, depending on the extent of your interning duties. Leadership is a big plus factor to have in your LOR's, and if that is something you demonstrated and that they would write about I think it could go a long way.

I'd probably need more information to know whether or not to recommend the family friend. Did you ever work with him? In what capacity did you know him? How is he qualified to talk about your potential strengths as a lawyer? If he is only a family friend and you are just namedropping that will most likely come through in the LOR, and it will not help you.

A friend of mine got a book when he was preparing his applications that talks about the impression the admissions committee will get from different choices people make for letters/resumes/personal statements, etc. Next time I talk to him I will see if I can find the title of it for you.

7/30/2009 8:33:54 PM

I am re-taking the Kaplan prep class to re-take the LSAT in September. I dread having to start studying for it again.
THE LSAT IS TORTURE.
Also, Central really needs to step up their time lines. They took FOREVER in responding.

8/1/2009 3:31:29 PM

The Bar exam is easily 100 times worse than the LSAT.

8/2/2009 4:42:48 PM

My Fall schedule sucks...I didn't get Crim Practice, so now I am forced to take State & Local Government (class about writing statutes to solve local problems). I didn't get ADR in Crim Cases, so now I am forced to take a natural resources seminar. Those two, combined with Secured Transactions, Payment Systems and Family Law...fucking sucks.

Spring isn't going to be must better, Trial Ad, Bar Prep, Conflicts, Advanced Crim Pro, and possible advanced torts.

I guess that its good that this is my last year. Now I just need to get a job lined up, preferably a federal clerkship.

[Edited on August 4, 2009 at 10:24 AM. Reason : .]

8/4/2009 10:23:34 AM

Just finished my first day

it sucked

we drank afterwards

classmates are cool as hell

I'm tired, and have homework to do.

8/10/2009 7:29:56 PM

^ wow you already started? crazy!

8/10/2009 8:31:13 PM

Yeah, they call it !L orientation

But they give us lectures and homework too

8/10/2009 9:49:46 PM