Quote :

"Well, it mirrored it to a point. There were obviously some huge differences."

well yeah there were huge differences, but i think it was just supposed to give you the basic gist of what happened between them and how bizarro ben didn't take the selfish route like his counterpart did.

3/9/2010 11:18:28 PM

Quote :

"how bizarro ben didn't take the selfish route like his counterpart did"

Or, if you view that as a reflection on what was happening with Ben on the island in this episode, you could say that Ben didn't take the selfish route in either timeline. In both timelines, he made mistakes and started down a dark path, but then redeemed himself. That's what I took as important. What happened with Sayid two episodes ago showed something similar--in both episodes, he gave up on his good will and embraced his violent nature.

3/9/2010 11:23:19 PM

Quote :

"damn, good fucking episode, lots of questions answered"

so thats the kind of episdoes you guys like?

I though the last episode was by far the best of the season with all the action. o well.


i'm so glad they got llana to take michelle rodriguez's spot. Gotta have a badass chick. I still think the story/show would've been better with the way it was going with her as a main character.

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 11:45 PM. Reason : probably would've been doing the same thing instead of llana]

3/9/2010 11:43:59 PM

Quote :

"Or, if you view that as a reflection on what was happening with Ben on the island in this episode, you could say that Ben didn't take the selfish route in either timeline. In both timelines, he made mistakes and started down a dark path, but then redeemed himself. That's what I took as important. What happened with Sayid two episodes ago showed something similar--in both episodes, he gave up on his good will and embraced his violent nature."

my only issue with this is that it doesn't really work with locke's flash sideways.

Quote :

"so thats the kind of episdoes you guys like? I though the last episode was by far the best of the season with all the action. o well."

the fact that you base your favorite episode on action comes as no surprise to me. the substance of this show rests mostly in the characters. the entire "sundown" episode could not match the amount of emotion contained within the single moment when ilana asks ben why he is going to meet locke and ben says, "because he is the only one who will have me." and if you think "sundown" was the best episode of this season because of the action then you seriously missed the most important aspects of it.

Quote :

"i'm so glad they got llana to take michelle rodriguez's spot. Gotta have a badass chick."

what the fuck are you talking about? ilana is not a replacement for a character who was killed off in season 2. and for someone who was so worked up about juliet's death, you seem to have forgotten about her as the "badass chick" pretty quickly, faggot.

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 11:55 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on March 9, 2010 at 11:57 PM. Reason : misquote]

3/9/2010 11:53:52 PM

I sure do love the way people deal with mambagrl

As far as Locke's alternate timeline not mirroring his island timeline, you are right. But that might just be because the real Locke is dead in the island timeline. If we look at Jack's alternate timeline episode, we MIGHT say that Jack overcame his personal issues in both timelines; in his alternate timeline, he told his son that he loved him unconditionally and fully embraced fatherhood despite his own delusions about perfection and expectation, and in the island timeline, what we know NOW is that when he saw the mirror, he decided to embrace faith in the island, and the idea that everything has a purpose. But, this seems like a stretch. Time will tell. But I think that more and more, we're going to start seeing the characters' alternate timelines reflecting their island ones.

Speaking of Jack, though, I thought this was an EXCELLENT episode for Jack. Not only did Ben redeem himself, the character of Jack did, too--he redeemed himself to the fans of this show. Or, at least to me. That scene with Richard Alpert was incredible, one of many great scenes in this episode. It was really nice to see Jack letting go of his obnoxious denial of any greater purpose. Maybe for the first time in this series, he seemed like a true, good leader in this episode.

And to answer mambagrl, I personally don't need a lot of questions being answered to consider an episode great. And I DEFINITELY don't need action. I'm more interested in the character development, the philosophical ideas, and the emotional gravity of the episode. I think Rat Soup more or less just said that.

3/10/2010 12:15:00 AM

Im going to bed so i'll fully talk about this tomorrow but sundown wasn't "just action" ya it had lots of action which made it even better but that was only one scene.

Also, Locke's flash sideways definitely represents at least partially, smoke locke, instead of just real locke. I know this because he manipulated Ben.

3/10/2010 12:20:29 AM

Quote :

"Other than that when Jacob touches you, he gives you a gift, which I thought we kind of already knew."

Well, we, or at least I, learned that this is why Richard is immortal. I don't remember that being answered before.

Also, it seems Jack and possibly everyone else who has been chosen is, too, since the dynamite didn't go off.

[Edited on March 10, 2010 at 2:58 AM. Reason : .]

3/10/2010 2:53:45 AM

Quote :

"Like what? I thought this was a great episode, but I can't seem to recall any questions being answered with this episode. Other than that when Jacob touches you, he gives you a gift, which I thought we kind of already knew. And that Widmore is the one coming to the island. What else? (I'm not being facetious; I'm legitimately trying to recap)"

^yeah, and we officially found out that Richard was on the Black Rock, which was sort of hinted at before, we know why he doesnt age, who Jacob was talking about when he said "hes coming" i think those are pretty big questions answered

Quote :

"so thats the kind of episdoes you guys like?"

i didn't like it because it answered the questions, it was a very good episode that also answered questions

3/10/2010 2:58:10 AM

Quote :

"yeah, and we officially found out that Richard was on the Black Rock"

is that why he was looking at the chains in the ship's hold? cause he was a prisoner on that ship? im not sure if that's what we are supposed to be led to believe, in my mind it is.

3/10/2010 8:03:52 AM

Quote :

"Also, Locke's flash sideways definitely represents at least partially, smoke locke, instead of just real locke. I know this because he manipulated Ben. "

wait....what?

3/10/2010 8:11:09 AM

We found out a little about Richard, but what we found out was vague enough to prompt more questions: why did he make a deal with jacob, why was he unable to communicate with jacob, what are the details of the gift (since he stated "its complicated"), why would Richard say "not yet" when Jack asks where he's from if he's already lost hope.

Richard could have explained so much, but Jack and Hurley didn't ask any of the obvious questions that should be burning in their minds as well as ours.

3/10/2010 8:11:30 AM

^ he may not have necessarily made a deal with jacob. he just said jacob touched him. none of the other candidates made a deal with jacob either. none of them really had a choice about the plans jacob had for them.

3/10/2010 8:37:14 AM

I think the chances are pretty good that Jack will continue to be led along to think that his purpose is to be "The Candidate," but I don't think he will end up being chosen. We've seen it happen to others before.

3/10/2010 8:40:13 AM

i'm most excited that the MiB and his posse are heading to the hydra station thus possibly revisiting the shootout between outriggers from season 5 where juliet shot someone before time travelling.


and lol that Jeff Goldblum dated Alex in real life.

[Edited on March 10, 2010 at 8:50 AM. Reason : wtg!]

3/10/2010 8:48:16 AM

That slow motion Sun-Hurley renunion was the corniest thing I've seen on this show in several years

and Holy Jeez about Goldblum

[Edited on March 10, 2010 at 9:32 AM. Reason : x]

3/10/2010 9:32:03 AM

I too lol'd at the periscope

3/10/2010 10:04:04 AM

wtf about Jeff Goldblum dating Alex? Isn't he like 50 yrs old or something? She looks late 20's at the oldest.

On Richard:

Quote :

"is that why he was looking at the chains in the ship's hold? cause he was a prisoner on that ship? im not sure if that's what we are supposed to be led to believe, in my mind it is."

This + when Fake Locke exited the four toed statue he said "Hello Richard, it's good to see you without chains on". That pretty much seals it that Richard originally arrived on The Black Rock as some kind of prisoner. I still wish they'd explain how The Black Rock got to the middle of the island.

Also, on the subject of Jacob making people immortal by touching them... he touched Locke after his dad pushed him out the window and effectively brought him back to life, but Locke is also the only one we know of that Jacob touched that is now dead.

Finally, why would Ben choose to side with Ilana rather than rule the island after Fake Locke & co. leave? Is it because he doesn't trust Fake Locke or because he truly has become "one of the good guys" now? I seriously hope he hasn't become good because I see him as one of the coolest TV show villains ever.

3/10/2010 10:44:49 AM

I don't believe that he said it made you immortal... just that you couldnt kill yourself... seeing as ben killed Locke, this theory could still hold true

3/10/2010 10:54:15 AM

^^hahah she's very young. Tania Raymonde (born March 22, 1988). But yeah, she dated/dates Jeff Goldblum who is 57.



^yeah i'm not so sure either. I mean we have to assume that each of the candidates on the walls of the cave have been touched by Jacob and all but six have been marked out.

[Edited on March 10, 2010 at 10:59 AM. Reason : a.]

3/10/2010 10:54:45 AM

Quote :

"I don't believe that he said it made you immortal... just that you couldnt kill yourself... seeing as ben killed Locke, this theory could still hold true"

Yeah, I think being touched by Jacob and being granted "immortality" are mutually exclusive.

3/10/2010 10:56:43 AM

I too don't like the idea of "Ben is actually a good guy". He was a very bad man in previous seasons, and not just for the sake of the island. The Ben we know would have jumped at the chance for power, regardless of who it came from.

I also don't like how quickly Ilana changed her mind about Ben - felt cheesy.

BTW - for anyone who hasn't seen it, here is Michael Emerson (Ben Linus) being creepy on Jimmy Fallon:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/04/21/michael-emerson-reads-lit_n_189662.html

3/10/2010 11:04:21 AM

i like the idea of Ben seeking redemption. He's done a lot of evil things, but like Richard, never really knew why. We saw some really deep emotions from him the last two years and while he's been evil there has always been a sense of him wanting what's good for the island, early on it was harming people to protect it. Now it's helping defeat the MiB if that's what it turns out to be.

3/10/2010 11:23:38 AM

I have a feeling Ben is going to pull his usual shenanigans. He is playing all nice but I wonder if in the end he is going to be playing along just to get what he wants

3/10/2010 11:27:38 AM

Well he's done evil stuff all the time just for the sake of it... he killed that dude Caesar on the beach with the shotgun back in Season 5 when he could have just shot him in the leg or something. There have been other things too, I'm sure.

3/10/2010 11:45:36 AM

Sayid, too, did a lot of bad things "in the name of good," but he did not seek redemption. I think that Ben truly is trying to redeem himself, but would not be shocked if he's just lying to people again to get what he wants. After all, he did seem to come under the spell of the MiB, but then (apparently) broke it. So, either you CAN overcome the MiB's persuasive power or Ben is lying again for the purpose of better serving the MiB.

As far as "immortality", Richard is not immortal. I don't think any character at all on the show is immortal. He does not age, however, and cannot kill himself. However, I don't think that Jacob touching you gives you this gift, I think it gives you a gift. I think the only reason that the candidates cannot be killed is because Jacob (who at least seems to be supernatural) will not allow it to happen.

3/10/2010 12:34:18 PM

i think you're basically immortal if you arrived on a boat from the mid 1800s and are around 200 years old and havent died of old age despite the fact that you dont age physically. i think richard could've been killed if jack wouldn't have stayed with him inside the black rock.

3/10/2010 12:43:17 PM

He's not immortal, though, he just doesn't age. He can die, therefore he's not immortal.

3/10/2010 12:54:38 PM

ok well in vampire rules or whatever he's pretty much immortal

3/10/2010 1:00:11 PM

I thought the conversation between Loepidus & Ben was a big hint as to where they are going, basically saying that regardless of whether or not he was the pilot of 815, the course is self-correcting, so to speak, and he ended up in the same place.

3/10/2010 1:22:57 PM

i guess MiB was just manipulating ben some more when he said his group was leaving and that ben could be the protector of the island after he left.

3/10/2010 1:30:28 PM

Vampire rules? I don't know what you mean by that, but I don't know much about vampires. Coming back to life? What do you mean?

3/10/2010 1:43:40 PM

^He means that vampires are typically referred to as being immortal even though they can be killed by sunlight/stake through the heart/etc. In a vampire sense, immortal means you won't die of old age... just as long as you are careful and don't get shot or whatever, you will never die.

3/10/2010 1:47:34 PM

meaning that vampires are considered immortal even though they can be killed

3/10/2010 1:48:37 PM

If others have succeeded conquering death, why must the rest of the islanders accept it? They know where immortals live, and how to obtain their secret. They, too, could become wisemen. The elements of chemistry are many, but finite. So are the techniques of enlightenment.

[Edited on March 10, 2010 at 1:53 PM. Reason : x]

3/10/2010 1:53:26 PM

in next week's episode, entitled "Recon," vincent enlists the aid of hurley and ben to investigate the origins of a strange wailing sound coming from deep within the jungle. mysteries will be unraveled as the gang confronts the ghosts of the island...and their pasts.

3/10/2010 2:36:09 PM

vincent is the smoke monster

3/10/2010 2:39:50 PM

Vincent created the island. He gave birth to Jacob and he shit out the Man in Black.

3/10/2010 3:00:54 PM

if you don't think vincent is behind everything then get out

3/10/2010 3:23:49 PM

There is no other possible explanation. He pissed on Richard's leg to give him his powers.

3/10/2010 3:35:28 PM

i believe that the black rock is out there in the middle of the woods due to the smoke monster getting buck wild and carrying it out there.

i also really like how they keep going back to the theme of man of science, man of faith with jack.

3/10/2010 4:51:04 PM

If by "man of science" you mean "man of veterinary medicine" then yes, I can see that. We don't want Vincent getting sick!

3/10/2010 6:21:47 PM

Vincent designed the fish biscuit device at the hydra station.

3/10/2010 6:23:22 PM

Episode 9 is going to be a game changer.

I'm AstralAdvent and i approved this message.

[Edited on March 10, 2010 at 8:19 PM. Reason : March 23rd mambagird]

3/10/2010 8:19:28 PM

^ it's been brought up before, so hopefully we already ruined who it's about for her

3/10/2010 8:25:11 PM

Vincent was actually the original captain of the Black Rock

3/11/2010 2:53:13 AM

Quote :

"the fact that you base your favorite episode on action comes as no surprise to me. the substance of this show rests mostly in the characters. the entire "sundown" episode could not match the amount of emotion contained within the single moment when ilana asks ben why he is going to meet locke and ben says, "because he is the only one who will have me." and if you think "sundown" was the best episode of this season because of the action then you seriously missed the most important aspects of it."

the character building is analogous to the lift of a roller coaster. It makes the show great but it also sets you up for the intensity of the fall. Most of the suspense of a coaster ride is in the ascent. Action is what puts a good show over the top. Its using some of that character building we have stored up and releasing it. A coaster with only lift wouldn't be nice.

To say sundown was "nothing but action" is grossly false. The kate-claire interaction was some of the best stuff from the series. Plus the mercenaries and Jin interacting with sayid is further support for my theory that they would all somehow end up together in the sideways.

3/11/2010 10:55:30 AM

Quote :

"To say sundown was "nothing but action" is grossly false. The kate-claire interaction was some of the best stuff from the series. Plus the mercenaries and Jin interacting with sayid is further support for my theory that they would all somehow end up together in the sideways."

DAMNIT MAMBAGRL STOP WITH THE SPOILERS OMGHAXTHEWORLDISENDING

3/11/2010 11:13:23 AM

Quote :

"the character building is analogous to the lift of a roller coaster. It makes the show great but it also sets you up for the intensity of the fall. Most of the suspense of a coaster ride is in the ascent. Action is what puts a good show over the top. Its using some of that character building we have stored up and releasing it. A coaster with only lift wouldn't be nice."

lost is a drama. your analogy is stupid. you are stupid.

3/11/2010 12:16:13 PM

You are "off-track", mambagrl. Zing.

3/11/2010 12:53:14 PM

I disagree. Lost is largely sci-fi suspense, part drama, part horror.

3/11/2010 4:52:17 PM