should they wait till end of the season to fire him?

1/16/2011 9:41:07 AM

Is that a serious question are you really that retarded? We are 3 games into the ACC season. We have lost our road games. How many road games have been won in the ACC so far??

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 9:56 AM. Reason : adsfda]

1/16/2011 9:55:35 AM

^ do you know what Sidney Lowe's road record is in the ACC for the last 4 years?

if so, you should know we can only count on him winning 1 to 2 ACC road games for the entire season.

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 10:13 AM. Reason : .]

1/16/2011 10:12:27 AM

yeah he's only won 6 acc road games. ever.

that's pretty shitty.

1/16/2011 10:17:37 AM

wow, thats horrible

1/16/2011 10:23:10 AM

He's not getting fired midseason. Period.

1/16/2011 10:25:11 AM

Quote :

"yeah he's only won 6 acc road games. ever. that's pretty shitty."

With teams that had obvious insufficiencies this has all been gone over before. Just wait until the end of the season and show some class while you do (this means refrain from booing during coach introductions it makes us look bad not Lowe). You do realize our perceived insane fanbase is yet another detraction for potential future hires. While people may not look at TWW you better believe they are looking at packpride... IF we have a terrible season and get rid of Lowe after it is over we will have the national media on our side unlike the last debacle of a coaching search. We get rid of him now and it will be the "those crazy state fans couldn't even give him a chance" part 2.

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 10:53 AM. Reason : asdfa]

1/16/2011 10:52:47 AM

Firing someone midseason is stupid as fuck for many reasons.

But Lowe was on pretty much every media outlet's hot seat this year. Herb wasn't on a single one (and he wasn't fired). I doubt there would be much outcry whatever the circumstances are.

1/16/2011 11:08:27 AM

Potential coaching candidates reading Packpride...lol. Riiight.

And Lowe is in year 5. It's not unreasonable to expect an NCAA tournament appearance and can him if he doesn't get one. That makes us no different than any other school in the country...most would do the same thing.

It might be different if there was reason to believe we were "right there" or just approaching the cusp. To this point Lowe hasn't finished above 10th in 4 years. How is expecting more than that being unreasonable?

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 11:22 AM. Reason : ]

1/16/2011 11:19:18 AM

look

i don't necessarily set the bar at making the tourney

i just want to be able to watch a game without

i just want an enjoyable saturday afternoon game

i love sid, but i think he's fucked

1/16/2011 11:27:43 AM

Give it until the end of the season and until then don't give state fans a bad name.

Quote :

"But Lowe was on pretty much every media outlet's hot seat this year. Herb wasn't on a single one (and he wasn't fired). I doubt there would be much outcry whatever the circumstances are."

Waiting until the end of the season would be fine. Doing it 3 games into the season would make NCSU, it's fans and its athletic department look bad and increase the perception of this being a high pressure job.

1/16/2011 11:33:05 AM

They won't fire him mid-season.

That rarely happens. But, you better believe his ass is gone at season's end. If he's not, then god help us all.

1/16/2011 11:36:37 AM

Quote :

"You do realize our perceived insane fanbase is yet another detraction for potential future hires. While people may not look at TWW you better believe they are looking at packpride"

Only at NC State do we expect a coach to show improvement and be competitive in year five.

We are so insane.

1/16/2011 11:37:28 AM

we should hire calipari and john chaney as a team

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51-4sJTf7iQ

makes as much sense as Bruce Pearl

1/16/2011 11:44:28 AM

Pearl likely wouldn't get hired just b/c of who his ex-wife is and their not so amicable split, even if the little spat he's having with the NCAA had not happened

It wouldn't be a deal breaker, but it'd play a factor with some of the old money.

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 12:08 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2011 11:52:38 AM

The fuck are you talking about

1/16/2011 11:57:52 AM

Quote :

"Only at NC State do we expect a coach to show improvement and be competitive in year five."

Getting rid of a coach in the middle of the season is an irrational thing to do and would further the impression of NCSU as rabid and irrational. I for one got sick of every mention of Sendek on ESPN involving how he was mistreated at NCSU and I don't want to give anyone an excuse to start down that road again.

1/16/2011 12:04:40 PM

Quote :

"I always love this. I call it "The Wolfpack Shuffle": [Start] Preseason: "For God's sake, you people are predicting disaster when we have not lost a single game. You ain't no TRUE FANS." Early Season Failures: "For God's sake, you people can't expect us to win every game. And these games don't matter anyway; when the ACC begins you will see. Plus, you, know, you can't expect us to win if the other team shoots REALLY GOOD. You people ain't no TRUE FANS." More Failures: "Wait until [this year Tracy] gets back. You ain't no TRUE FANS." [Tracy gets back] ACC Failures Begin: It's you people's fault for expecting so much from this team. Like, you know, winning one game against a quality opponent. You ain't no TRUE FANS." NOTE: I love this one for its absolutely dazzling intellectual insult: this festival of suck is our fault as fans, when the same people were telling us we were disloyal for having doubts about the team doing well earlier in the season. ACC Failures Continue: "Season ain't over. You people need to let the season play out. You ain't no TRUE FAN." NIT Bid: "You people need to chill and wait until next year. You ain't no TRUE FANS." Postseason: "Just shut up. Don't you know recruits read this board? You want to coach the team? YOU AIN'T NO TRUE FANS." [Return to Start]"

1/16/2011 12:09:53 PM

Wow I'm ready for Lowe to go, but midseason? Come back to reality guys.

1/16/2011 12:09:59 PM

just dropped in to say, not cool. Not cool at all.

1/16/2011 12:12:26 PM

Another day, more crazy hyperbole from boozie

You're trying your hardest to turn this place into packpride

1/16/2011 12:12:37 PM

This whole debate just gets frustrating because it seems as if everyone has their mind made up about what the other sides position is.

With the exception of Pack Pride (which can basically be discounted if we're going to talk about rational people), and maybe 1 poster on here, I don't think we've seen anyone calling for him to be fired mid-season. Conversely, I don't think we've seen more than 1 person say that we definitely need to keep him more than just the end of this year.

I think what is happening is that poor performances this season in both wins and losses this season is causing people to complain. That complaining is taken as "FIRE HIM NOW!!!". Now, I can certainly understand the dislike of people complaining if they're vocally doing it at home games to our coaches and players, but we're on a internet forum for christs sake. The way I personally see it is that we've have 1 quality win and 1 quality loss so far. No matter how many you count, it's probably going to be under your original expectations going in to the season with this new team in a down conference. People are angry. I haven't attended a game as a fan since Delaware State, so I can't say how the crowd has been reacting in person recently, but obnoxious booing at home is about the only legitimate complaint I can see so far.

1/16/2011 12:24:56 PM

We need a new coach and we have needed a new coach for 5 years.

1/16/2011 12:25:31 PM

Spin it however you want, but you can't argue with the facts:

past 5 years
ACC Standings:
+-----+
|all ....|
|other.|
|teams|
| ...... |
+-----+
|NCSU|
+-----+

1/16/2011 12:34:27 PM

That game was pretty abysmal to watch.

FSU is pretty decent (their defense is stout), but let's not act like they're an awesome team. They lost to Auburn for crying out loud, got spanked by a mediocre Virginia Tech team, and lost to an equally mediocre Florida team.

And they beat the shit out of us yesterday...in every facet of the game. I really don't think anyone if serious about the firing Lowe midseason (if they are, then they should be ignored)...but I don't see how anyone can be optimistic about how the rest of this season is going to pan out. I still hope the ship gets righted, but yesterday was not good. Boston College was not good. Wake Forest was great, but they look like one of the worst teams in ACC history. Sidney has had some spurts of success here, but overall, you have to pick 5 and 6 game stretches to show that he's a good coach?? That's pretty weak. Every team goes through stretches of good play....to hold onto to a couple of those stretches as proof of good coaching ability is not enough. Every team has questions marks every year, but this is easily the most complete team he's fielded in his 5 years, and the results (in a short season thus far) are not looking any different than the other year. I want this team to win more than anything...I really like this group of guys and I think there is some great talent here. But it's the coaches job to put the best combination of talent/experience on the floor and it doesn't look like Sidney is doing that. The team looks unmotivated the majority of the team (at the least, at the beginning of EVERY GAME) and his substitutions has been suspect to say the least.

This season has been extremely disappointing so far.

1/16/2011 12:35:03 PM

No one ever seems to provide any examples of this substitution issue

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 12:47 PM. Reason : Besides pulling Harrow in the BC game of course]

1/16/2011 12:45:13 PM

^
Also

Quote :

"in every facet of the game."

We thoroughly outrebounded them. Isn't rebounding a historic issue that you Lowe critics like to rehash over and over again?

Quote :

" They lost to Auburn for crying out loud, got spanked by a mediocre Virginia Tech team, and lost to an equally mediocre Florida team."

and most recently they beat the number 1 team in the nation. Did you leave that out on accident??

1/16/2011 12:48:22 PM

Actually one thing I was surprised about during the FSU game is that he changed up the sub patterns again (for the better, imo), but not for that long.

First one was: Smith, Howell, Leslie, Wood, Harrow

Can't remember the second one other than it called for Harrow at the 1 and Javi at the 2. I was excited to see that, because I'd much rather see Javi playing the 2 and just focused on shooting rather than trying to break the D...but he came in and was bricking all over the place. I just can't believe how badly he seems to have regressed since last year.

1/16/2011 12:49:12 PM

he should be fired at the end of the season

posts like this from the other thread are just asinine

Quote :

"we've been struggling for a while and it's very frustrating for all of us, but over the past 5 years (and all throughout the herb years) all we've done is continue to talk shit about our own instead of encouraging them to get better. this season is still far from over and many of you have already given up. this team has a lot of potential and has shown flashes of brilliance, but in order for them to reach that potential, they're gonna need our full support."

how will "giving them our full support" make our defense less terrible? how will it improve our offensive movement and spacing?

1/16/2011 12:50:33 PM

We are a very poorly coached team. We have been a very poorly coached team for 4.5 years. The results speak for themselves. Anyone who says otherwise is trolling or really just doesn't have the ability to comprehend what a well coached team looks like.

1/16/2011 12:52:37 PM

SUPPORT DA TROOPS

1/16/2011 12:53:27 PM

Quote :

"We are a very poorly coached team. We have been a very poorly coached team for 4.5 years. The results speak for themselves. Anyone who says otherwise is trolling or really just doesn't have the ability to comprehend what a well coached team looks like"

exactly. how anyone even attempts to argue against this blows my mind.

1/16/2011 12:53:57 PM

Quote :

"how will "giving them our full support" make our defense less terrible? how will it improve our offensive movement and spacing?"

I get what you're saying, and I'm with you as far as talking shit on a message board isn't making our team suck dick. And I'm not fully on board with the the notion of blindly supporting the program. But (and I'm reading that quote as it's posted, completely out of context) player morale is directly affected by fan morale. If fans are not showing up, booing, generally being dickheads, it might not hurt much, but it isn't helping anything.

Yeah, it's chicken and egg, but if everyone, and I'm including myself here, could be a bit more civil, this thread would at least be tolerable.

Really I wish people could just speak their minds without trying to attack dissenters or the coach on a personal level. But this is TWW, douchebags gonna douche.

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 1:00 PM. Reason : ^ The only person actually arguing that is adder. No one should take that guy seriously.]

1/16/2011 12:59:45 PM

No evidence Sid can coach itt....aside for one game instances of brilliance that the likes of Les Robinson, Pete Gillen, and other perpetually losing coaches pulled off a couple days a year.

1/16/2011 1:00:36 PM

One of my biggest concerns is that if Sid does get canned... where will some of the douche "fans" project their unhappiness about life? I'm afraid some might turn to their friends, or wife, or children as a scape-goat....

1/16/2011 1:10:46 PM

1/16/2011 1:16:08 PM

Yeah, fuck fans you complain when their team always sucks. WHAT NERVE, definitely a phenomenon reserved for NC State.

1/16/2011 1:17:05 PM

Quote :

"Lowe went with Harrow because Javi was late to practice, not because of his struggles. Then Javi played more minutes than Harrow (22 to 21). If Lowe hasn't been able to convey that in 4.5 years, then a midseason firing is probably a good option."

Is this true? First I have heard of it. I was going to give Sid credit for starting Harrow.

1/16/2011 1:19:53 PM

^^who said it was a phenomenon reserved for state fans?

why do people continually make up arguments itt?

1/16/2011 1:22:28 PM

I thought that's what we do here, in light of there being no real argument regarding the original topic.

1/16/2011 1:27:18 PM

well, some certainly do it here. it appears to give them pleasure and satisfaction. but i guess its better than them beating their wife.

1/16/2011 1:41:41 PM

depends on who their wife is

1/16/2011 1:55:51 PM

Quote :

"No one ever seems to provide any examples of this substitution issue"

Where should we start?

and.... the fact that you don't see it for yourself might be why a person wouldn't care to waste the time.

also, because they're game by game happenings, so that would require one to look at every post in every post-game thread and dig up the situational fuck ups perpetuated by Lowe year after year where he goes away from a hot hand, or where he played Julius Mays over Javi in pivotal situations where it could be deduced there was a high likelihood of pressure being placed on the ball, or when he would pull McCauley after the dude had just gone on a tear and you'd see it on his face and the faces of the other players wondering wtf he was thinking, or where we saw Jordan Vandenberg enter the rotation when Smith was out, when we arguably could have been better off seeing a Howell/Painter/Leslie rotation at the 4 and 5.

but again, if you can't recall seeing him do this and having those "wtf is he thinking" thoughts run through your head, then it's a waste of time because you're either trolling or aren't watching the games. the times are too numerous to recall. i can't think of any other way to address it. even the most diehard of lowe supporters that i know admit this to be a serious issue with him. it's like he's doing the shit at random and his clock management (regarding the lineups) is another huge issue, but that's for another post.

i had no fault with the subtitution he made in the BC game, fwiw. i took issue with Donahue out coaching him, going zone, and Lowe not having his team prepared to face any look other than a man to man. it's basic coaching to have a contingency for wtf to do if you see a zone, or if the play should breakdown. we didn't, and Lowe got pwnt as he has so many, many times in his horrendous ACC coaching career.


[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 2:05 PM. Reason : .]

1/16/2011 2:04:04 PM

Quote :

"^ The only person actually arguing that is adder. No one should take that guy seriously."

Actually I am firmly on the give him this season and if we don't get to the NCAA tournament he is gone but please believe the picture that boozie likes to paint.

Quote :

" i took issue with Donahue out coaching him, going zone, and Lowe not having his team prepared to face any look other than a man to man"

Ok you have one instance of Donahue out coaching. How about the other plays after timeouts in which we scored what happened there (go look at the gamethread if you don't believe me)? Donahue getting outcoached? NAhhhhh couldn't be Lowe is a terrible coach... It isn't all black or white just stfu until the end of the season.

Quote :

"Jordan Vandenberg enter the rotation when Smith was out, when we arguably could have been better off seeing a Howell/Painter/Leslie rotation at the 4 and 5."

Already been explained a couple times but what is one more. We had 2 players capable of playing the 4 on the entire team Leslie and Howell (Painter/ Vandy very ineffective guarding on the perimeter). At that time we had 2 players capable of playing the 5 Painter and Vandy. You move Howell over as your backup at center and you have no one available as backup for Leslie. Howell would also be playing in a position that he wouldn't get much time in once Smith (he will be playing most of the minutes available at the 5) is cleared for play. Painter is an adequate backup center and you are getting Vandy a little more PT than expected. Sucks but would you rather throw your future lineup in disarray? I think it was wise to avoid having players play out of position for a temporary injury especially given the relative youth and inexperience of the team.



[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 2:33 PM. Reason : asdfd]

1/16/2011 2:13:32 PM

Wins/Losses are about as black and white as you can get.

1/16/2011 2:17:47 PM

Quote :

" Ok you have one instance of Donahue out coaching. How about the other plays after timeouts in which we scored what happened there (go look at the gamethread if you don't believe me)?"

I have 4.5 years of watching this pitiful excuse for a coach on our sidelines to know what is going to happen by the end of the season.

He has the lowest ACC and overall winning percentage of any coach in NC State history not named Les Robinson. He's won 6 road games in 4.5 years. He has had plenty of talent in years past, and has "his players" now.... same old shit.

And, once instance of out coaching? They_won_the_game.

1/16/2011 2:33:12 PM

^^So you wouldn't be happy unless we went undefeated?

(I'm gonna give this "making up an argument" thing a try)

[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 2:34 PM. Reason : ^s]

1/16/2011 2:34:04 PM

lol

1/16/2011 2:35:00 PM

I'm not blindly supporting Sid, and I agree with most of what you said ... but you're really gonna argue this?

Quote :

"He has had plenty of talent in years past "

Before this year, he's had exactly two five-star players on the roster. One was Hickson, here for a whole year. The other was Costner ... not gonna go there. Who else makes up this "plenty of talent?" I'm not saying that's the case this year. But we're still a team made up of two upperclassmen ... and Javi ... one of which has played 3 whole games this season.


[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 4:01 PM. Reason : ]

1/16/2011 3:57:13 PM

Well to be fair, it's been proven in this thread that FSU has enough talent to beat the Miami Heat, so for FSU to squeak by us is actually another moral victory.

We are undefeated in moral victories.


[Edited on January 16, 2011 at 4:00 PM. Reason : (making up shit is fun)]

1/16/2011 4:00:01 PM