"Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur?"

I would hope those dissing fixed gear riding have tried it with an open mind, but then again opinions are like kittens right?

i will say that the idiots that ride the brightly colored fixies without brakes are giving the rest of fixed gear-dom a bad name.

anyone done any fixed mtbing? much more fun that freewheeling.
gonna try the 2011 tour divide fixed. if you haven't heard of the tour divide check it out. http://www.tourdivide.org 2745mi self supported mtb race from banff, canada to antelope wells, NM
no one has finished it "officially" fixed

10/8/2010 12:24:04 AM

Quote :

"I would hope those dissing fixed gear riding have tried it with an open mind, but then again opinions are like kittens right? "

There's a couple fixies in the house and I enjoy riding them. I'm not necessarily putting them down as I am praising how efficient geared bikes are and great at what they do.

Quote :

""Isn't it better to triumph by the strength of your muscles than by the artifice of a derailleur?""

That statement is completely misleading. In fact it couldn't be furthest from the truth. A geared bike is closer to triumphing naturally from the strength of your muscles whereas a single speed fixed gear bike is mechanical, unnatural, and inefficient.

Take running for example. You can change your stride, speed up, or slow down. Running is very natural and it relies completely on your body's ability to "change gear" for different circumstances. A geared bike does just this. The bike adjusts to your body and the road. It allows you to be efficient and match a cadence with the output power of your body. Just like running the system optimizes for peak performance.

A single speed bike on the other hand is a simple mechanical transfer of motion based upon one torque. There's no varying output based upon cadence or speed. It's all or nothing. It's very unnatural and mechanical. Humans aren't made to be restricted by one gear. Saying a single speed is directly transferring your muscles energy in an efficient and beneficial way is like saying running with a fixed stride is ideal.

In fact the derailleur could be compared to your hips and knees and their ability to adjust the body when needed. Sometimes your body needs to rest and coast, and sometimes it needs to adjust to a higher or lower cadence to maintain optimum output. Sure fixies are fun to ride but saying they're more natural and even hinting on the fact that you get any mechanical or natural benefit is just ridiculous.

Riding a bike in the first place isn't "natural" but gears have brought the motion closer to a natural transfer of power.

10/8/2010 1:33:17 AM

Fixie vs. geared fight!

Different (pedal) strokes for different folks!

I like my fixie for around Durham, because I don't want to worry about shifting all the time, and I get a better feel in sloppy road conditions, but, I also like my carbon/aluminum road bike because I can be efficient. And I like my heavy-ass Surly LHT for hauling shit in the bike trailer, and carrying all my crap to school and back.

My blue cruiser is purely aesthetic: I look cute on it, especially in the summer with a skirt on.

10/8/2010 11:45:41 AM

You fellows don't see the point. This is not the tour de france.

Sure I may be faster on a geared bike but guess what, I'm still going to pass you on my fixed.

I enjoy riding it.

This goes for everything. If you like it and it gets you excited then why not do it.

Quote :

"Bragging about being a fast rider on a fixie is like bragging about running with extra weights. You're less efficient but that doesn't mean you still can't beat people who are that much weaker than you to start with. "

Actually, I run with extra weight on me and ride around with a heavy book bag at all times.

I am strength training and I'm down for hard modes.



[Edited on October 8, 2010 at 12:20 PM. Reason : .]

10/8/2010 12:19:50 PM

^I think you're completely missing the point. I'm coming at it from a efficiency standpoint. If you were with someone of equal strength no you would not pass them on a fixed gear bike because you'd be slower and less efficient.

Saying "I'm still going to pass you on my fixed" is simply saying that you're that much stronger than that particular person. I guess it wouldn't make sense for me to say, "well guess what I'm still going to pass you on my geared bike" because I would have both the mechanical and the strength advantage. So I see your point. Saying you can pass someone on a fixed gear is like the ultimate way of poking fun at another biker. If it's true then you've overcome the handicap of a fixie and you're stronger in general. I guess it's akin to saying, "hey I can beat you in a boxing match with one arm tied behind my back".

You missed the weight example point. Sure for strength training you can run or bike with extra weight. I have a weight vest I run and do crossfit in but that's aside the point. Typically you don't get a handicap in races. I was comparing two people one with a fixie and one with geared of equal strength. Not some random scenario where you have weights on a fixie and some weaker person is riding a geared bike. That's neither an accurate test nor is there any point in discussing it. If you want to brag you say, "I'm riding the same bike as you and I can do this course this much faster" not "I'm riding a handicapped bike so I can still beat you."

10/8/2010 1:29:15 PM

I know exactly what you are shooting for. I need to handicap myself or I will never find and good competition on my rides. I also enjoy the strength training. I am not trying to be a lanky cyclist. Geared bikes bore me. Yes I have ridden them extensively.

[Edited on October 8, 2010 at 1:34 PM. Reason : X]

10/8/2010 1:33:09 PM

Quote :

"I need to handicap myself or I will never find and good competition on my rides."

Where do you live? If you can't find any competition on any rides you just aren't trying hard enough.

10/8/2010 1:42:39 PM

Hahahahahahahaha

10/8/2010 2:41:54 PM

I'M GOING TO DRIVE MY CAR ALWAYS IN THIRD GEAR

10/8/2010 2:41:56 PM

^^am I missing something?

^haha good way of putting it.

10/8/2010 2:48:22 PM

I saw a bike the other day downtown, but i was somewhat confused. I couldn't figure out why it only had 1 gear on it.

10/8/2010 2:50:23 PM

You know what. You guys are right. I'm just going to put a electric motor on my bike. Actually I hear gasoline is more efficient. wait I'm afraid of getting hurt now. Let me add 4 wheels for stability and some safety harnesses and drive that everywhere. Who would ride a bicycle. there are so many other efficient forms of transportation. What idiots!

10/8/2010 3:05:33 PM

...........
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............./´¯/'...'/´¯¯`·¸
........../'/.../..../......./¨¯\
........('(...´...´.... ¯~/'...') UMADBRO?
.........\.................'...../
..........''...\.......... _.·´
............\..............(

10/8/2010 3:15:31 PM

^^

Quote :

"You know what. You guys are right. I'm just going to put a electric motor on my bike. Actually I hear gasoline is more efficient. wait I'm afraid of getting hurt now. Let me add 4 wheels for stability and some safety harnesses and drive that everywhere. Who would ride a bicycle. there are so many other efficient forms of transportation. What idiots!"

Actually what's funny is how incorrect that statement is. Did you ever see "speed" at the omnimax (think that's what it was called)? It explained why a geared bicycle is the most efficient form of transportation.

Anyway doing any of those things you suggested would decrease efficiency. Gasoline is incredibly inefficient. Cars are what 20-30% efficient at best? Most of the caloric energy in a car gets wasted as friction or heat. Adding more wheels for stabilization would increase fiction and decrease efficiency even more. i.e. more energy would get transferred into stabilization than torque going to the wheels.

So basically:

Quote :

"there are so many other efficient forms of transportation. What idiots!"

100% incorrect. A geared bike is probably close to if not the most efficient form of transportation based upon a calorie per mile burned. A quick google search came up with this:

http://www.exploratorium.edu/cycling/humanpower1.html

Quote :

"It takes less energy to bicycle one mile than it takes to walk a mile. In fact, a bicycle can be up to 5 times more efficient than walking. If we compare the amount of calories burned in bicycling to the number of calories an automobile burns, the difference is astounding. One hundred calories can power a cyclist for three miles, but it would only power a car 280 feet (85 meters)!"

Now this is completely irrelevant if you're trying to be inefficient for the sake of getting stronger. But then again why don't you just be efficient with a geared bike and go faster and longer than if you were on a fixie?

Now don't take this as: "oh well then cycling must be the worst form of exercise because it uses the least calories per mile."

Take it like: "cycling must be a great work out then because you can optimize performance to go longer, faster, and more efficiently on fewer calories longer distances and on a variety of terrains."

Basically cycling is such a great sport because of how efficient the system is. You're dumbing it down by thinking a fixie single speed is giving you an advantage.

10/8/2010 4:07:44 PM

Quote :

"You're dumbing it down by thinking a fixie single speed is giving you an advantage."

bingo

/fixie argument

10/8/2010 6:48:48 PM

neo, id loved to see your fixies bud
It doesn't seem like anyone is arguing about the efficiency of fixed vs. gear besides a sarcastic comment that you took far too seriously and i doubt anyone thinks they have an advantage by riding fixed.

Quote :

"That statement is completely misleading. In fact it couldn't be furthest from the truth. A geared bike is closer to triumphing naturally from the strength of your muscles whereas a single speed fixed gear bike is mechanical, unnatural, and inefficient. Take running for example. You can change your stride, speed up, or slow down. Running is very natural and it relies completely on your body's ability to "change gear" for different circumstances. A geared bike does just this. The bike adjusts to your body and the road. It allows you to be efficient and match a cadence with the output power of your body. Just like running the system optimizes for peak performance. In fact the derailleur could be compared to your hips and knees and their ability to adjust the body when needed. Sometimes your body needs to rest and coast, and sometimes it needs to adjust to a higher or lower cadence to maintain optimum output. Sure fixies are fun to ride but saying they're more natural and even hinting on the fact that you get any mechanical or natural benefit is just ridiculous."

none of this really makes any sense to be honest. In now way is a geared bike closer to "triumphing naturally". derailleur like hips? no, not at all. as for the running comparison when you want to run faster you body doesn't "change gears" it increases power output to go faster. This is the same with a fixed/singlespeed if you want to go faster power output is increased. With gears this is not the case. speed can vary while power output stays the same due to what is called mechanical advantage.

Quote :

"A single speed bike on the other hand is a simple mechanical transfer of motion based upon one torque. There's no varying output based upon cadence or speed. It's all or nothing. It's very unnatural and mechanical."

theres no varying output based on speed? what?? when there is varying input there is varying output...

Quote :

" Humans aren't made to be restricted by one gear. Saying a single speed is directly transferring your muscles energy in an efficient and beneficial way is like saying running with a fixed stride is ideal. "

humans aren't made to be restricted by one gear? so there ARE made to ride with gears?? i don't know why we were made or how we got here but i doubt our purpose is to ride geared bikes.


i enjoy debating this subject but no one is arguing the efficiency of drive systems so why keep comparing them?

10/8/2010 11:35:53 PM

your stride length is the gearing equivalent of walking/running. force to distance ratio.

i swear SSs are over here in Boston. no joke within a year the number of SSs i see in Allston and Somerville (hipstervilles) has dropped like a rock and old ten speeds w/ gears are way up. interesting fashion trend.

That said, i just finished my six cyclocross race and i'm officially addicted. So much freaking fun. I did break a SRAM Rival shifter during my last race, though. I was pretty sad/pissed until the LBS said they'd warranty and replace it for me. heck. yes.

10/11/2010 2:20:47 PM

a store near me is trying to get rid of their 2010 stock, does this seem like a decent deal?
2010 Allez Triple (several sizes) MSRP $740 Sale $555

I've been thinking about getting a cheap road bike since i rarely ride the trails now. I don't know anything about road bikes, but i assume they are priced similarly to mountain bikes, ie. each model has the same frame but varying levels of components? I don't mind replacing components later as they break.

[Edited on October 11, 2010 at 6:09 PM. Reason : ?]

10/11/2010 6:09:06 PM

Anyone ever adapt an older road bike (late 90s) to a cyclocross bike? My old road bike needs re-purposed, because the boyfriend isn't riding it. It's got a 700 x 25c wheelset, Tektro brakes and all aluminum frame. I'm wondering what brakes/pads I can throw on it for extra stopping power, and what's the widest tire I can get away with? 28?

I'm going to bug the cross dudes I know, but I wanted to hear TWW's almighty opinion too. I figured I'd try the trails a few times- I'm familiar with flailing around in the mud from year-round trail riding on horses.

[Edited on October 16, 2010 at 1:02 PM. Reason : !!!]

10/16/2010 12:53:19 PM

i think tire clearance (frame and potentially brakes) with knobbies will be your biggest problem.

10/16/2010 1:44:26 PM

sorry Sinister Kid I didn't get a chance for a lengthy response. Basically dannydigtl summed it up:

Quote :

"your stride length is the gearing equivalent of walking/running. force to distance ratio."

Yeah basically. My whole argument wasn't really something I was just making up off the top of my head. I've had conversations with numerous cyclists and the general consensus is gears are like your bodies natural ability to change stride (like when running) aka force to distance. So yes a geared bike is more natural and a more fluid transfer of kinetic motion. A single speed is not natural. You can't change torque based upon that distance r like you can when doing just about any other sport (running, swimming, etc). A geared bike allows you to adjust the bike to fit how your body is outputting energy.

10/16/2010 1:59:30 PM

Rode my bike for the first time since May

yeah I died at about 10 miles

already thinking indoor trainer is the way to get going again. I don't want to ride around cars and not be sure of my strength just yet......

10/24/2010 11:55:58 AM

Am I missing something here? A fixed gear bike still has a mechanical advantage. It is simply fixed. Therefore, why is a fixed gear more about the power of your muscles? It has chosen a gear ratio that is a compromise of speed and strength.

10/24/2010 2:37:38 PM

limiting your muscles to one gear ratio does not use them effectively...or rather, as effectively as variable gear ratios do

there is an optimal cadence (pedal revolutions per minute) combined with varying power output that yields more efficiency from the multiple gear

if you are limited to a single gear (nevermind if it is fixed) you are not able to spin at the cadence that allows the most efficient use of muscle power

10/25/2010 10:22:23 AM

Good day to ride today. I'm sure many have heard of the Morgan Stanley dude getting off even after hit and running the cyclist down

11/9/2010 12:50:19 PM

my Ice Queen Princess:

11/9/2010 8:18:25 PM

double post. running CycleCross rims for these crap roads.

[Edited on November 9, 2010 at 8:18 PM. Reason : .]

11/9/2010 8:18:25 PM

Did my first cyclocross event this morning with my dad. Entered the singlspeed division and rode a singlespeed mountain bike my dad has. My dad and I were definitely the only people out there with mountain bikes, but we had fun finishing last and second to last in the division. Thank God I beat my dad or I would have never heard the end of it, but it was definitely touch and go for a few laps out there. I'm in terrible biking shape right now.

For those wondering, I would imagine that if it is wet and muddy, some of the advantage of a cyclocross bike may be mitigated, but on a course like today where it was dry and hard, mountain bikes are a no-go if you want to be at all competitive.

Still had fun and now I'm trying to figure out a way to convert my steel road bike to a make-shift cyclocross bike.

1/9/2011 6:34:28 PM

good to see this thread alive. i got my new seat post yesterday. looking forward to riding some this week.

1/9/2011 6:52:21 PM

Got a little over a mile and a quarter mapped out in the woods yesterday for my secret little dh run

The last .8 mile has just over 900 ft of elevation drop

1/9/2011 7:12:21 PM

toyotafj40s, do you know the year/model of your bike? I have a very similar frame (58cm 1988 Criterium series) in a very similar color.

1/9/2011 7:40:25 PM

Yay this thread's alive!

1) I started back in training this week for my May half-Ironman and the schedule makes me go , although
I am getting much better at running 3rd time out this year.

2) The trainer is the bane of my existence- good thing spin classes are starting back up at work, and that I get some
real miles in my commuting to school.

3) I am excited about doing outreach with the bike co-op with about half of the organizations in Durham. Should be a busy spring and summer!

1/9/2011 10:57:47 PM

^which one are you doing? White Lake?

1/10/2011 9:42:41 AM

^ Probably. I did their Olympic this past fall and liked the flat course. I may try something
a little hillier in the fall as my fitness improves.

Any other ones you could recommend? This would be my first half-IM.

1/10/2011 1:49:33 PM

I have a question: Can anyone suggest a good bike for me? I'm looking for a cross between a racing road bike and mountain bike (do they make those?). I am curious about what I should get since I plan on doing two triathlons this year and due to the fact that I'd like to ride to/from work every now and then for exercise. I'd like to be able to ride on the road well and have it comfortable enough to do trails. I have no real biking experience since I was like 12. I also plan on doing an Iron Man within the next 6 years so that is part of my consideration too. I guess I should start with my size. I'm 6'0" with a 34" inseam. So, basically, I'm all legs. HALP!

1/10/2011 2:13:58 PM

^^That's the only half ironman I had done, but it was nice...except for the miserable heat. It's held late enough in the year that it's a crapshoot whether it will be nice or unbearably hot. When I did it last year (second weekend), it was 95 degrees and humid. The run was unbelievable. I was planning on running around 1:45 based on my training, but I ended up running (or walking most of it because of severe cramping) 2:45.

I have heard good things about beach to battleship in wilmington and that's in november I think. If I were to do it again, I would do that just so I wouldnt have to race in the heat.

^If you are planning on doing an ironman (and this will presumably be the bike you do it on), don't consider anything except for a road or tri bike. I'm afraid they aren't really good for trails, but anything you can take on a trail would be miserable for 112 miles of an ironman. Your best bet is to get a decent road or tri bike, then scour craigslist for a cheap mountain bike that you can hit the trails with. That's basically what I did... now I have a stable of bikes.

[Edited on January 10, 2011 at 3:02 PM. Reason : d]

1/10/2011 2:59:52 PM

^ Yeah, I hear that. Our stable consists of:

2 mountain bikes
2 singlespeed commuter bikes
2 road bikes
1 welded tall bike
1 folding single speed w/coaster brake
1 single speed cruiser
1 geared cruiser
1 Surly LHT

And there are 3 more bikes between our other 2 roommates.

Needless to say, some live in the attic, on the walls, and up against furniture.
I still haven't found a good cyclocross frame to convert in my size.

1/10/2011 6:40:31 PM

welp, i picked up a steel frame single speed bike that I am gonna convert to a cyclocross bike. Once I get it how I want, I will post pics. That brings my bike tally to.

2 mountain bikes (1 steel rigid and 1 aluminum with a front shock)
1 steel frame road bike
1 aluminum triathlon bike
1 steel single speed cyclocross bike/commuter

I keep upgrading then telling myself I will get rid of the one I am upgrading from, but I end up keeping them for my friends to ride and tag along on. Best part is I probably have less than $1500 even with upgraded parts in all of them combined.

1/14/2011 9:06:11 AM

With the exception of the 20", I have eventually regretted selling any bike I've owned. Don't let anyone give you shit for having "too many" bikes.

1/14/2011 9:57:31 AM

Some amazing weather is coming up for next week.

Where are you guys going to ride?

1/14/2011 11:04:19 AM

I'm riding the NC cyclocross event on Sunday in Wilkesboro. Hit me up if any of you are riding.

1/14/2011 6:01:49 PM

pretty pumped to not have to ride the trainer today. rode my new rims for the first time. they are going to super fast when it warms up!

1/16/2011 9:06:55 PM

I am selling a few of my bikes to make room for a new cyclocross and mountain bike. I know this probably belongs in the classifieds, but I doubt there are many there that would be interested. If you guys know anyone that would be interested, please pass the word along.

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/bik/2190854493.html


http://raleigh.craigslist.org/bik/2190872612.html

1/31/2011 8:54:43 PM

what about motorized bikes?

1/31/2011 9:17:04 PM

got a good ride in yesterday afternoon. it was 74 degrees out. i only did 18 miles but i skiied for 14 hours on saturday and really didn't have much in the legs. but it sure was nice to ride in warm sunny weather.

1/31/2011 9:18:25 PM

^^ that cervelo is a real possibility for me. I've been looking at getting a tri bike, doubt I'll find a much better deal than that. How much does that frame weigh?

2/1/2011 7:52:20 AM

Not sure on the weight of the frame, but with training wheels and everything on it, I weighed it at around 18lbs (if memory serves correctly). If you went with carbon bars and wheels (I looked into it, but I couldn't afford it at the time), it'd be incredibly light. I can weigh it when I go home for lunch if you want.

2/1/2011 9:43:36 AM

Your singlespeed is nice . Not sure about the slightly upturned handlebars- is your stem too short?

2/1/2011 10:35:44 AM

It was a change I made during cyclocross season so I would have something to grab while I was standing and grinding up the hills (since I didn't have the brake hoods) and I never changed it back.

[Edited on February 1, 2011 at 11:12 AM. Reason : d]

2/1/2011 11:07:53 AM

not hating, but i'd be damned surprised if that was 18 lbs

jus sayin

2/3/2011 1:52:05 PM