I don't want to get into the all-time argument without doing more research first, but he's definitely up there. Shaq at his peak I think was definitely a little better than Duncan, but Duncan is clearly superior for longevity.

I really don't think whether the Spurs win or not this year SHOULD affect his legacy though it obviously will. He's certainly not the one carrying them to the title, he's really not a huge factor on this team.

He had a mediocre regular season and was having a good postseason, but last night he wasn't effective and the Spurs still won fairly easily.


As for the series being over. It's basically over if they keep trotting out the same rotations because they can't win with them. If they run Westbrook, Harden, Sefolosha, Durant, Ibaka together then it's not over. That lineup is so athletic defensively that they can generate turnovers and OKC is unstoppable on the break. In the halfcourt that lineup has three attackers who are great at finishing and getting to the line. It's not bad from a spacing standpoint because four of those guys CAN make open shots (not all are elite shooters obviously). On top of that Durant can rebound like a 4, Ibaka covers a lot of ground around the basket, and Westbrook/Harden are solid rebounding guards.

That's the magic lineup. Let's see if Brooks figures it out. Even Barkley went on and on last night about how you CAN'T play Perkins. And Fisher?!?! The guy offers nothing beyond the ability to knock down an open jumper. That's not a recipe for success when you need a complete team effort to beat the Spurs.

They're leaving Perkins out there because they think they need him to guard Duncan. Duncan isn't the key to this team. The key is keeping Parker/Ginobili out of the paint because once they get there they can both finish and the Spurs surround them with great outside shooters like Green, Leonard, Bonner, etc. Let Duncan get his 20 points, 12 rebounds. That's okay. He's going to have a lot of turnovers, missed FTs, and shots getting blocked too. It's not okay to let Parker go 17-22 FG or whatever or let Green/Leonard/Bonner get 10-12 wide open threes from the corner.

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 10:45 AM. Reason : a]

5/30/2012 10:42:45 AM

Quote :

"That lineup is so athletic defensively that they can generate turnovers and OKC is unstoppable on the break. "

They kept coming back doing this in last night's game. Then the refs made some bull-shit blocking calls. I hope they can get some of those calls going the other way in OKC and run away with at least one game...then they'll probably have to win a close one. I can see it happening. But like rally says...they need the right lineup on the floor.

5/30/2012 10:47:20 AM

That lineup is good and all but they're screwed when they have to sub.

5/30/2012 10:51:33 AM

Quote :

"That lineup is good and all but they're screwed when they have to sub."

As long as they don't do hockey line changes, they'll be fine. More Quinn Cook and less Derek Fisher whenever Westbrook has to go out. At least Cook can defend and shoot over defenders.

5/30/2012 11:03:42 AM

Quote :

"More Quinn Cook and less Derek Fisher whenever Westbrook has to go out. At least Cook can defend and shoot over defenders."

5/30/2012 11:59:45 AM

Dequan, Quinn...whatever

5/30/2012 12:06:53 PM

i actually think Duncan is a bigger part of this team than people are giving him credit for. his defense and rebounding is pretty huge. and he typically makes great decisions with the ball, even when he's not shooting/scoring well. i dunno, he was definitely off last night, but the team was still +16 with him in the game. parker was clearly the MVP of last night's game, and ginobi of game 1, but Duncan is still a critical part of this team vis-a-vis splitter or bonner or blair, etc.

5/30/2012 12:51:20 PM

The thing about Duncan is that he can't really take over a game offensively consistently anymore. You can back off of him on jumpers because he's not a particularly good shooter. You can foul him when he does get good looks and he won't make you pay at the FT line. He gets a high percentage of his shots blocked because he doesn't have lift around the basket. He turns the ball over a lot when you pressure him and make him put the ball on the floor. He even misses a lot more "bunnies" than a lot of less skilled big men.

I'm not saying he's completely ineffective offensively. But if you have to pick your poison against a great offensive team like the Spurs. You can allow Duncan to have 24 points on 8-16 FG, and 8-12 FT with 5 turnovers. That's not going to kill you, especially considering he's going to get like 12-18 anyway with Perkins guarding him. He's not going to put up the old 29 points, 17 rebounds on 20 FGA like he was doing a decade ago.

What WILL kill you is Ginobili getting layups and free throws and having like 26 points on 12 FGA/10 FTA, Parker getting wide open 15-18 footers and hitting nearly every one of them, and Green/Bonner/Leonard knocking down 50% of their wide open 10-12 corner threes.

Look at what Sefolosha did in Game 1. He had 4 steals in 31 minutes played. 2 of those I'm pretty sure were stripping Ginobili on a drive. The other two I believe were by playing the passing lanes and anticipating the kickouts. These steals are converted into fast break points nearly every time and you force the Spurs to take tougher shots instead of whipping no look passes all over the court because they know Perkins is late in rotation again. If you put Sefolosha on Ginobili he is going to be much less effective. The knock on Sefolosha is that he stinks on offense. So what? If he goes 1/3 from 3's that isn't hurting you. What, Durant and Westbrook can't take an extra 5 contested jumpers in the game and make nearly as many as Fisher would have wide open?

With that lineup on the court you are going to frustrate the Spurs rhythm by forcing them to take tough shots at the end of the shot clock instead of running three straight pick & rolls until they break down the defense for an open look. That's a great trade-off for the extra couple of buckets Duncan might score.


Also, OKC is so young they don't really need to substitute much. Westbrook and Durant have no problem playing around 45 minutes per game. Harden can easily go 40. Sefolosha can play 30+. Ibaka can play ~35. You're looking at a total of like 45 minutes or so that need to be absorbed by OKC's role players. Collison should get ~20 of those as he's a great energy player that hits the glass. The other 25 you throw Fisher in for 5, Cook in for 5, Perkins in for 15 and call it a day.

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 1:33 PM. Reason : a]

5/30/2012 1:29:56 PM

I love how Barkley already had that figured out at half time, and it took scott brooks to get through deep in the 2nd half to hear him.

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 1:58 PM. Reason : sd]

5/30/2012 1:57:30 PM

^^ ok, that makes sense. you're saying that he's still a big part of the team, but OKC's defense should focus more on stopping the drives by parket/ginobili than stopping duncan. i'll buy that, especially after last night. sheesh.

5/30/2012 3:44:45 PM

Did anybody else think that San Antonio got away with a ton of contact last night? There was a 10-12 minute stretch where OKC was attacking the basket every play, and I thought they could have called 5 or 6 fouls...and they let them play.

And they wouldn't call a charge on Duncan if their life depended on it. He barreled into OKC defenders a couple times and they either let them play or called a blocking foul.

It was a ridiculous disparity in calls...but there was definitely some home cooking that took away a lot of OKC's advantage of getting to and defending the basket.

5/30/2012 3:55:21 PM

^ I thought they were letting it go on both ends for the first half or so and I appreciated it. Then in the 4th quarter I thought SAS got away with a few fouls (the one where someone smacked Durant's forearm on a jumper comes to mind) and that they whistled OKC for some really questionable ones when SAS was driving to the basket in the last 3-4 minutes.


On the other hand it's really annoying to see Durant/Harden/Westbrook go to the line all game. They're just too good at drawing fouls.

Westbrook with his athleticism gets all the way to the rim, Harden has those crazy finesse moves, and Durant is terrific at using his size to get a good look and then leaning into the contact when he goes up. This is why I don't understand why anyone would care about Sefolosha's offense. The Thunder don't pass the ball anyway, they dribble drive from the top of the key, shoot jumpers, or hit Durant off curls. Sefolosha can just stand in the corner all game and he's a good enough shooter to go 1/3 from 3's every game.

In the meantime you don't get the illegal screens, turnovers, loose ball fouls, and missed layups/hooks/and free throws from Perkins.



As far as the Thunder's future this could be a really dangerous team next year. The forgotten man in this series is Eric Maynor. He's a very solid backup PG, and will be a big upgrade over Fisher if he can come back healthy next season.

Also, Cole Aldrich actually put up really good per minute numbers this year too in limited action. When a guy plays that few minutes you have to take his numbers with a grain of salt because there's a lot of garbage minutes involved. But he's a guy who can rebound, finish around the basket, and contest shots.

Durant seems to have kinda peaked offensively, but he's going to keep getting better defensively (improved a ton this season). Harden obviously had his coming out party last year in the playoffs and then continued to play at a ridiculously high level this year. I don't think OKC let's him get away. He's only a 6th man because they like him to have him fresh as the primary ballhandler when Russell sits near the end of the quarter. He will get a max offer (or right around it) from someone for sure and I bet OKC is willing to match whatever.

The real story is Russell Westbrook though. He improved his shooting percentage a lot this year in the regular season but his turnovers were still terrible. This year in the postseason the turnovers have all but disappeared.

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 8:15 PM. Reason : a]

5/30/2012 8:06:08 PM

5/30/2012 8:08:06 PM

wonder how many people she's executed

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 8:13 PM. Reason : russian chick obviously, not adrianne maloof]

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 8:14 PM. Reason : yeah wrong thread, oh well, she's probably still ex-KGB]

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 8:14 PM. Reason : .]

5/30/2012 8:13:12 PM

yeah, the Spurs played SO dirty, What a NASTY team ...





GO SPURS GO!!!

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 8:43 PM. Reason : It's a big boy game...]

5/30/2012 8:39:47 PM

Only time I ever see ^ post is jacking off the Spurs in this thread. I wish I had that kind of discipline. I'd be a lot farther ahead.

5/30/2012 8:43:19 PM

not that i should have to do this but just in case someone tries to give me crap if boston loses the series i took miami again tonight at -425 to hedge my series bet off fully.

5/30/2012 8:49:05 PM

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 9:02 PM. Reason : ...]

5/30/2012 8:52:21 PM

man Stiemsma is such an elite center, he only has 4 fouls already

5/30/2012 8:58:27 PM

LOL, TreeTwista is such a douchey troll.

5/30/2012 9:07:17 PM

if the dude had zero fouls, he still wouldn't be an elite center

no trolling necessary

5/30/2012 9:08:28 PM

Go back to your cave, troll! I've about had it with your antics.

5/30/2012 9:12:28 PM

when I think of elite centers, I think of Howard, Bynum...and Stiemsma

5/30/2012 9:14:26 PM

Getting close to Billy Packer time...

5/30/2012 9:14:29 PM

maybe game 1 was a fluke and Boston just needed some rest.

5/30/2012 9:16:39 PM

damn i didnt know the refs were allowed to call technicals on Heat players

5/30/2012 9:23:26 PM

Referee declined on HEAT! Rondo didn't foul on LBJ.

5/30/2012 9:46:28 PM

I feel like Miami will start guarding Rondo and dominate the 3rd qtr.

5/30/2012 10:01:08 PM

technical on Garnett for Chalmers hitting him in the face

5/30/2012 10:44:04 PM

^
You sound mad.

5/30/2012 10:53:00 PM

probably wouldnt have even mentioned it if not for all the ridiculous technicals in game 1

5/30/2012 10:54:33 PM

This 4th quarter collapse is so Bulls/Jordanesque.

5/30/2012 11:08:37 PM

Paul Pierce may be one of my least favorite NBA players of all time.

5/30/2012 11:09:48 PM

Always wonder how teams cannot defend a simple ball screen that everyone knows is coming at the end of the game.

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 11:25 PM. Reason : .]

5/30/2012 11:17:11 PM

How in the hell does a superstar ever foul out in the NBA?

5/30/2012 11:17:52 PM

Clearout for a jumper from James versus Rondo? Seems sub-optimal.

5/30/2012 11:24:57 PM

Big game, go to OT!

5/30/2012 11:25:01 PM

if the Heat lose, it'll be because of those free throws that they choked on...

5/30/2012 11:34:28 PM

The older Garnett gets, the more he resembles Lil' Penny.

5/30/2012 11:34:29 PM

damn. looks like the heat are gonna pull this one out.

5/30/2012 11:39:39 PM

Celtics should've fouled earlier in the last minute...Rondo was on fire.

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 11:46 PM. Reason : great game!]

[Edited on May 30, 2012 at 11:47 PM. Reason : Heat got away with a few fouls...]

5/30/2012 11:45:04 PM

Quote :

"THE BIG ONE"

5/30/2012 11:45:35 PM

5/30/2012 11:48:03 PM

pretty sure I've never seen a player play a game like that before

holy fucking Rondo

5/30/2012 11:51:23 PM

what a game! i enjoyed all 76 free throws!!

5/30/2012 11:56:40 PM

Quote :

"Always wonder how teams cannot defend a simple ball screen that everyone knows is coming at the end of the game."

The pick and roll is the simplest play in basketball, but its still very effective

That said, when its Wade picking for Lebron or Lebron picking for Wade, you have to sink back into the paint to prevent the cut for the easy layup

But at the same time, when they have Miller and Chalmers in the corners or on the wings, you risk giving up the open 3

if I were Spoelstra I'd run that all game...when somebody like Haslem sets a pick, you can play it differently, but when its #3 and #6 doing it, its tough to stop without giving up an open 3

5/30/2012 11:59:50 PM

Man im so tired of brousard and jb and this whole. Its obvious that they just hate the heat. I mean they jut one and they are still talking about not being clutch.

5/31/2012 12:03:51 AM

i've been tired of broussard since the first time i heard him talk

i'm still shocked that he's not from the left coast though, with that strong R-enunciating accent

5/31/2012 12:06:07 AM

I got sick at the stomach right after halftime and went to bed. CRAZY

5/31/2012 12:18:19 AM

You can't let Chalmers and Haslem score that many points. If two other guys combine for 30, the heat will win every time. Otherwise lebron and wade have to score 30-35 each.

[Edited on May 31, 2012 at 12:33 AM. Reason : fucking refs blew the game apparently]

5/31/2012 12:33:20 AM