Quote :

"but he's kind of been typecasted as a good guy"

um, he played barty crouch jr. in goblet of fire. besides dr. who it probably the role he's most known for in the US.

7/20/2008 8:10:08 AM

Quote :

"In TDK, everyone only talks about how bad Gotham is...and even then its not really that bad--especially when the mobsters have a conference where the Joker tells them they're not doing enough anymore and the whole "Gotham deserves a better class of criminal" line. All the dialogue about the state of Gotham is very political, appears fake and seems to be a lot of hype for Dent's campaign. You only ever see the public in the background, save for the ferries, but by then that's the end of the movie. Everything else that happens in the movie happens to Batman, Joker, Rachel, Dent, Gordon, and the mob bosses--none of those people make up Gotham City. So when Gordon goes on his spat about how Batman now has to be the outcast to save Gotham and give Gotham hope, I don't believe him and I don't believe that it's as relevant as they make it out to be."

The idea is that, while Gotham is better now than before, it's problems can never truly be fixed by Batman. Sure, he can clean up the streets and maybe inspire more vigilantism, but he can't solve the problems of the city for good; only provide a quick fix. Batman leaves, everything goes to hell again because the criminals fear him, not the legal system. He needs Dent and the image of Dent (and to an extent Gordon) to step in to show that it's not one man that's changing, it's the entirety of the city's law officials.

Batman can't arrest and won't kill, so while it's really nice that he's beating everyone up, without someone like Dent to actually build a case and put them in jail, all his work is for nothing.

7/20/2008 9:36:51 AM

saw it yesterday - acting was superior; story line was predictable, but i expected that. imo it's a top 5 movie, but not the best movie i've ever seen.

7/20/2008 9:50:04 AM

your mom is superior

7/20/2008 9:54:29 AM

Quote :

"story line was predictable, but i expected that"

7/20/2008 10:07:12 AM

SPOILERS....If you haven't seen the movie, I basically summarize the entire thing after the quote...But you really should have seen it by now anyway...

Quote :

"The idea is that, while Gotham is better now than before, it's problems can never truly be fixed by Batman. Sure, he can clean up the streets and maybe inspire more vigilantism, but he can't solve the problems of the city for good; only provide a quick fix. Batman leaves, everything goes to hell again because the criminals fear him, not the legal system. He needs Dent and the image of Dent (and to an extent Gordon) to step in to show that it's not one man that's changing, it's the entirety of the city's law officials. Batman can't arrest and won't kill, so while it's really nice that he's beating everyone up, without someone like Dent to actually build a case and put them in jail, all his work is for nothing."

I get the idea, I just don't think the movie did a good job of showing that idea

from the beginning of the movie, the emphasis isn't on the safety of gotham...its the joker stealing the mob's money, its the joker going after important elected officials, its batman fighting the joker, its the joker blowing up Rachel and Dent, and then finally its the joker putting some people in danger in the hospital (but the movie makes it mainly about the safety of Dent) and the ferries

and then after that Batman has to become the scapegoat of gotham....otherwise gotham goes to shit

this is probably one of the easiest movies to do a 1 minute youtube parody of and you wouldn't feel like you missing out on the real story

7/20/2008 10:43:40 AM

i, for one, do not care anything about Gotham as a whole

and i skip the posts that are discussing it

7/20/2008 11:03:08 AM

Some spoilers ahead:










When the Joker is talking to Dent, he tells him that Dent and Gordon and everybody else who's combating crime in the city has failed and will keep failing because they always have to stick to a plan. Joker even makes it a point in his schemes to prove that people never freak out when things are announced and planned in advance, but go apeshit when totally unpredictable things happen. Isn't Joker being hypocritical? He certainly had many things planned out to the letter, even allowing Batman and Gordon to catch him. One explanation is is that Joker was saying whatever he had to to push Dent over the edge, but I have to wonder if he actually believed himself.










[/spoilers]

7/20/2008 11:04:59 AM

^^that's kind of exactly what bothered me as i left the theatre

I don't care about Gotham as a whole....but the very end of the movie made me feel like i was supposed to

and since I didn't...the movie failed in what it was trying to portray



^I thought the exact same thing...but then i just chalked up the lying to his psychopathic behavior and it made a lot more sense. The Joker lies and that's about it.

[Edited on July 20, 2008 at 11:09 AM. Reason : asdfghj]

7/20/2008 11:05:46 AM

Quote :

"Isn't Joker being hypocritical?"

he's not the model citizen you know

7/20/2008 11:08:34 AM

Granted.

7/20/2008 11:09:09 AM

I enjoyed the hell out of it.

one thing that made me laugh my ass off was when Dent got his face burned, some guy behind me had the epiphany and said "oh, so he's two face." Way to follow shit, genius.

But the Joker's "magic trick" early on was outstanding!

7/20/2008 11:13:37 AM

i liked when he asked the guy how many of his men he had killed and then he lipped "SIX?"

and the "im like a dog chasing cars..I DUNNO WHAT I'D DO WITH IT IF I CAUGHT ONE!"

7/20/2008 11:15:12 AM

Quote :

"your mom is superior"

you would know

7/20/2008 11:50:31 AM

Saw it last night, loved it.

I'd really like to see a follow-up loosely based on Dark Victory. And I REALLY don't think they should do the Joker again. Heath Ledger nailed it. Give it another 20 years until the next relaunch for some other chump to try it.

7/20/2008 12:03:54 PM

That was awesome.

7/20/2008 1:17:19 PM

I didn't get why the joker seemed to be so suicidal so much of the time, considering the number of plans he had working all at once. Several times he almost begged for people to kill him, which would have basically ended his dream of toppling the establishment. Perhaps you could say that he knew Batman wouldn't kill him, but there's no way he could say the same for Harvey.

I know he's not entirely logical, being the joker and all, but even if he didn't care at all about his life, you would think he would show a bit more self preservation if only to carry out his schemes.

7/20/2008 1:26:34 PM

maybe he hated gotham so much that he knew it would continue a downward spiral if Dent killed him

much similar to why they end the movie with them talking of why they need to cover up what dent had turned into (killing and all)

7/20/2008 1:30:07 PM

Quote :

"it was supposed to be bad from the beginning, though. there was no sense of danger at the start of the film. in fact, they made it seem as if the majority of the "bad guys" were running scared and things were better than they'd been in ages"

It wasn't supposed to be that bad. The majority of bad guys were running scared because of what happened between Begins and TDK, as shown when the guys in the car didn't want to mug someone because batman might show up. However, the mob was still in a lot of power.

7/20/2008 1:36:54 PM

Quote :

"one thing that made me laugh my ass off was when Dent got his face burned, some guy behind me had the epiphany and said "oh, so he's two face." Way to follow shit, genius."

aha this girl sitting next to me saw that and turned around and told her friends behind her HE'S TWO FACE!!!

7/20/2008 1:50:45 PM

haha, yeah thats the advantage of standing in line and seeing it opening day, cause youre just around a lot of comic fiends that already know the deal.

<SPOILER>









even still, there were some younger people in the theater who actually gasped and sounded surprised/disappointed when gordon was killed. i mean really....commissioner gordon?

and like ^^ said, there were hints as to certain reasons for the movie taking the direction it was. only its a good director and not someone who makes silly montages like in the saw movies where you get to see all the important scenes and have them explained to you. nolan is definitely not that kind of director and did a great job of explaining himself with simple scenes. its a movie, you do have to watch it to get them, but then you get more movie and less 'i think my audience is dumb' vibe like some movies ive seen.

[Edited on July 20, 2008 at 2:57 PM. Reason : ...]

7/20/2008 2:56:37 PM

Quote :

"I know he's not entirely logical"

Since when? (at least in this movie)

[Edited on July 20, 2008 at 3:48 PM. Reason : ]

7/20/2008 3:48:46 PM

for some reason I was under the impression that Dent's transfiguration into Two Face would be the ending, and that his rise and fall as a villain would be used as the backdrop for a third movie.

I would not find it to far out of the way for the Nolan brothers to rebuild a previously used batman universe character like the Riddler and refit him from the comical question mark suit wearing loon into a dark and extremely demented character that fits the batman universe they have created. A third movie starting out with the expulsion of the Batman from the hearts of Gothamites, the downfall of the city into chaos at the hands of whatever villain and calling of the city for their dark savior back from exile would be in order. The exposition of Bruce's need to continue the normal life he has led for a short time with a new love interest and the inner calling to don the cape and cowl to save the city he and his father have worked for so long to save so many times would feel like the Nolan brothers style.

7/20/2008 4:07:19 PM

Quote :

"for some reason I was under the impression that Dent's transfiguration into Two Face would be the ending, and that his rise and fall as a villain would be used as the backdrop for a third movie."

I was expecting the same thing going in...this was almost two movies in one, as far as Dent's plotline was concerned

7/20/2008 4:32:58 PM

^yeah, same here

I was surprised when it kept going after that part.

7/20/2008 5:09:04 PM

box office mojo is saying 155 million for opening weekend

btw the movie was everything i could have asked for and more; saw it friday night and going to see it again in IMAX either this week or next

7/20/2008 5:11:23 PM

i absolutely loved it.

7/20/2008 6:03:49 PM

I thoroughly enjoyed it. Especially Ledger's Joker.

But I felt completely drained after I walked out of that movie.



>>>>>>> SPOILER!!!! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

Quote :

"The exposition of Bruce's need to continue the normal life he has led for a short time with a new love interest"

Getting rid of Dawes sets up, I think, quite nicely to have someone along the lines of Selena Kyle or Talia Al Ghul in the next movie.

Al Ghul more likely, since Ra's has already been involved.

[Edited on July 20, 2008 at 6:30 PM. Reason : .]

7/20/2008 6:28:27 PM

selena kyle please

7/20/2008 6:53:41 PM

My only qualm with the movie was how they last minute had Harvey dent turn bad after a quick chat w/ the joker within the last 45 mins of the movie. you'd think harvey kill joker than go after the corrupt cops would make more sense.

Though they could have maybe saved 2-face for the next film

[Edited on July 20, 2008 at 8:56 PM. Reason : l]

7/20/2008 8:56:32 PM

^ Just like Batman, Dent is already on the edge of doing semi-evil things at any moment. Losing Rachel and losing his face puts him over the edge.

7/20/2008 9:18:28 PM

i seriously hope they make a poster of the joker driving the cop car/ambulance (i cant remember which it was)

[Edited on July 20, 2008 at 10:32 PM. Reason : smile]

7/20/2008 10:16:29 PM

Ledger was very good in this movie, I'll admit. I think Christian Bale did a very good job as well, even though that's been overlooked to some extent.

7/20/2008 10:24:25 PM

awesome awesome movie

I am surprised they didn't have a lead in like in batman begins (joker card) for another villain in the next movie

7/20/2008 10:37:41 PM

This thought has been bothering me. I wonder if they actually wrote a death scene for the Joker but given Heath's real life demise they decided to scrap it in fear that it would be too traumatic.

7/20/2008 10:38:02 PM

does anyone else think Bale's "Batman voice" is a little over the top sometimes?

either way, great movie

7/20/2008 10:38:41 PM

so assuming catwoman makes an appearance in the next film (cause you know there'll be one), what actress would you want to see play her? i tried thinking of a "known" quantity, but something tells me they might go with someone lesser known. thoughts?

7/20/2008 10:43:07 PM

^^yes his batman voice is a bit over the top at times.

and PLEASE not catwoman

7/20/2008 10:46:44 PM

I was really expecting Dent to go off the deep in but still be alive in the third one. Along the lines of taking his fight against the mob in his own hands and being a mass murdering lunetic in a third movie. Sure he is taking out the mob but he has to be stopped. I was really looking forward to that because as soon as I saw Eckhart's Two-Face i was enthralled. I thought he looked amazing and was so excited for him to have the third movie. I was kinda bummed about his end.



as long as they keep the villains in the third movie somewhat realistic (read: NO MR. FREEZE!) then i'll be happy.

7/20/2008 10:48:44 PM

he might not be dead

they might have just told the public he was dead and hid him in arkham

but maybe i missed it when batman said "he's dead, jim"

7/20/2008 10:50:26 PM

speaking of Mr. Freeze, I watched part of Batman & Robin on tv the other day

best

movie

ever

7/20/2008 10:50:38 PM

^^you could be right, i dont think it was confirmed. Its just the way i took it.

7/20/2008 10:52:25 PM

He might not be dead

but they can only play the 'fake death' card so many times in this series

7/20/2008 10:53:18 PM

true. bruce, Al Guhl, Gordon, maybe Dent? that is quite a lot.

7/20/2008 10:54:23 PM

Quote :

"This thought has been bothering me. I wonder if they actually wrote a death scene for the Joker but given Heath's real life demise they decided to scrap it in fear that it would be too traumatic."

I don't know why they would have killed him. Throughout the movie the Joker talks about how he and Batman need each other

7/20/2008 10:57:31 PM

Well, to be fair, Gordon was the only one where you actually thought that the character was dead

Bruce was only portrayed as dead to the world in the movie...we as the audience knew he was alive the whole time

And we never we're led to think Liam Neeson died...that was more of a case of mistaken identity, because we thought that Chinese guy was Ra instead of him.

So they've only used Gordon for the fake death in making the audience think he was dead, but I think once is enough...thats one of the most overused plot points in movies today

[Edited on July 20, 2008 at 10:59 PM. Reason : x]

7/20/2008 10:59:08 PM

Completely forgot to post my thoughts about.....


How fucking bad/fake Dent's face looked. I mean holy fucking shit could they have done it any worse. Probably the only really bad fuck-up they had in making the whole movie.

7/20/2008 11:03:23 PM

well

they could have made half of his face purple and have half of his hair stick straight up

7/20/2008 11:07:02 PM

anyone got a pic of two face?

7/20/2008 11:08:14 PM

I thought they did a good job. It never distracted, except for how gross it was.

7/20/2008 11:08:25 PM