vandenberg has to be marginalized in the games against wisconsin and syracuse. I know we dont have a lot of bodies with Smith out but Painter and Howell are just going to have to suck it up

also Wood needs to learn how to shoot tougher shots. i actually like that he's trying different shots now, even if he's missing them, because he's not really that much of an asset on offense if he can only score by catching the ball and shooting when he's open and his body is set

11/21/2010 10:15:19 PM

Quote :

"and did you say howell can finish at the basket? he can get fouled, if that's what you meant, but he rarely finishes. same for painter. vandy doesn't even get fouled."

I should clarify, they can finish when the guards dish to them. They aren't particularly good post up players. That is enough to make us not a 3 point shooting team sans Tracy.

Not to mention the 3 other players that can get to the rim on their own.

11/21/2010 10:17:18 PM

The other thing the bigs don't do well is screen. They just have to get tougher and stop playing like pussies. The have a month to learn.

11/21/2010 10:18:20 PM

We also only had 8 assists as a team so we were trying to create a lot of shots rather than looking for open men.

11/21/2010 10:19:18 PM

rawr rawr

11/21/2010 10:19:39 PM

i'm kind of disappointed that howell doesnt look that much better than last year. he lost weight but it seems he didn't work on anything else in the offseason.

at this rate painter is going to pass him and take most of his minutes by their junior years. still a lot of time for him to show otherwise, though. he's very skilled for his size and just has to learn not to be a complete pussy within 6 feet of the basket to become an excellent player

11/21/2010 10:21:18 PM

Quote :

" [no] We have good penetrators and we have bigs to finish besides tracy. Vandy hurts us but Painter has come out and been impressive imo and howell, when not jacking up retarded 3's, can finish very well around the rim. Not to mention CJ and brown can create and finish at the rim very well."

In transition, sure, we should get to the rim everytime. In the half court though, defenses are going to focus on stopping penetration and we simply have to hit jump shots. Howell/Painter/Leslie aren't polished enough scorers to feed the ball to in the post like we would with Tracy.

11/21/2010 10:22:05 PM

of course they will focus on stopping penetration. but now we have guys that can create that penetration in a half court set.

11/21/2010 10:23:13 PM

Quote :

"We also only had 8 assists as a team so we were trying to create a lot of shots rather than looking for open men."

I don't know that they weren't looking for open men. Its more that Georgetown has a lot of really quick guys clogging up passing lanes. I saw several occasions where Harrow was looking for the dish and either turned it over or had to do some crazy acrobatic shot instead.

11/21/2010 10:23:48 PM

^^

11/21/2010 10:28:20 PM

I guess I should have said that they weren't finding open men. Georgetown was quick on defense but I also think we panicked a little in the middle of their run and stopped looking to pass.

11/21/2010 10:28:54 PM

what was the final score?

all I have to say is we HAVE to get better at rebounding (on both ends of the floor) and start making our fucking free throws. Also, Vandenburg is absolute garbage, I'd rather have Painter on the floor with his hands on his knees stationary on the defensive end because he is too tired to run up and down the court, than have Vandenburg in the game at any point

so, its basically the same thing I've been saying since the tourney started

also, CJ Leslie wouldve got his shit packed if he was able to go straight to the NBA out of high school. Sure he can make some good plays every now and then, but for the most part he looks a little lost out there. I wonder if Sidney needs to tighten or loosen the reins on him

11/21/2010 10:31:35 PM

Well, my 4 hour journey back starts...

Please tell me someone at least heard me on tv heckling chris wright right before his missed free throws.

11/21/2010 10:31:46 PM

Quote :

"also, CJ Leslie wouldve got his shit packed if he was able to go straight to the NBA out of high school. Sure he can make some good plays every now and then, but for the most part he looks a little lost out there. I wonder if Sidney needs to tighten or loosen the reins on him"

i would loosen them and let him do his thing (even if it involves stupid 1 on 5 shit or step back 3s) against some of the scrubs we play coming up. he needs to feel good about himself and have a big game after having some rough ones in this tournament

in the real games I like how Lowe has handled him. I think he's found the perfect middle ground in between just letting him get away with moronic shit all the time and benching him for entirely too long

11/21/2010 10:39:39 PM

Haven't read the entire thread...I'm sure this has been said (a few hundred times) but our shot selection was awful. Howell, Harrow, and Leslie all jacked up 3s...that's not really their game. Wood couldn't hit anything. Vandenberg sucks.

We got down early in the second half and panicked. A product of the youth and inexperience, I guess.

[Edited on November 21, 2010 at 10:54 PM. Reason : ]

11/21/2010 10:51:04 PM

Quote :

"Please tell me someone at least heard me on tv heckling chris wright right before his missed free throws. "

What did you say. Did it involve him being a traitor?

I kept watching the game thinking he should be our starting point guard with Harrow backing him up.

11/21/2010 11:50:59 PM

if i ever see chris wright on the street i'm going to punch him in the stomach.

11/22/2010 1:03:00 AM

Basically first two games in Charleston we played team ball. Tonight we played And1 and didn't work together. It was the first game against a big-time opponent so nerves were to be expected plus we were missing our best player hello. Even I didn't get all that worked up over this one.

Oh and Leslie needs to get on with the playing as a team idea...

11/22/2010 1:26:32 AM

Can't really get worked up over this loss. We played well for a half, then didn't play well for another half.

Not having Tracy definitely hurt us in this game and it will definitely hold us back when we play teams of this caliber. We can get by without him fairly easy when playing the George Mason's and ECU's of the world, but not Georgetown. Our big guys just couldn't get any easy baskets and it allowed Georgetown to really play aggressive with our guards.

They also shot the ball really well, but it helped that our defense was abysmal. We couldn't handle a simple screen and their backdoor cuts killed us. Our defense was pretty embarrassing. I'm not too worried about offense, especially once Tracy gets back, but we need to shore up the defense.

11/22/2010 7:59:10 AM

Not not to nitpick but it wasn't a great shooting night for them.. All three guards shot under their 3pt % coming in..

Chris Wright was incredibly impressive.. Best player on the floor by far.

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 8:42 AM. Reason : X]

11/22/2010 8:41:08 AM

Not surprised that we lost, but disappointed that we let Georgetown run away with the game in the 2nd half. Our 3 pt shooting was abysmal. If we hit one or two more 3s, maybe we could have won that game, but oh well. Sid better use this game as a lesson for the freshman as we get ready for a similar game in a couple weeks against Wisconsin.

11/22/2010 8:53:16 AM

The Hoyas play a far more uptempo game... Honestly it's only similar in name..

11/22/2010 9:14:12 AM

Quote :

"Not not to nitpick but it wasn't a great shooting night for them.. "

I guess it just seemed like they were hitting all of their open shots in person (their season percentages coming into the game were ridiculously high anyways, I don't expect those averages to stay up).

11/22/2010 9:32:31 AM

Quote :

"Chris Wright was incredibly impressive.. Best player on the floor by far."

no shit... it sure does suck seeing him play so good against us.
we let them control the tempo last night in the second half...and just couldnt get into a good flow b/c of being too rushed.

Zo is nasty ... so damn smooth and has a great feel for the game esp. leading the break and creating passing lanes

11/22/2010 10:14:08 AM

I think having Tracy would've made a ton of difference tonight based solely on the fact that when we hit that scoring draught we would've had an experienced senior in the post to run sets for to make sure we got points. Howell, and Leslie need to stay inside the 3 point arc and Wood was terrible last night. That's the type of game that even without Tracy I feel like we're at least within 5 points or so at the end more often than not. We just came undone when they started pushing it and we started missing.

11/22/2010 10:20:24 AM

well we are going to be w/out Smith for 3 weeks so everyone else needs to step up.

Vandy is such an offense liability at this point....its

11/22/2010 10:32:44 AM

Our perimeter D was atrocious.

Zo is as good as advertized and will be an all-ACC player.

CJL is our Harrison Barnes (way overhyped). He shot the ball over the backboard. THE BACKBOARD!!!

Harrow is quick as shit.

Painter is much improved.

Howell is no better than last year.

I think we need Javi and Williams to play more. They can't push it like the freshmen but as we found out last night, we need better defense on the perimeter and more maturity on the floor.

11/22/2010 10:35:24 AM

The thing with guys like Javi and Williams is that they are still just role players. Javi can hit open threes and be a solid point guard, but he can't create baskets against above average guards (Chris Wright is well above average) and he's undersized. Players like Harrow and Brown can create baskets and shots when the offense isn't running well like it was last night. Unfortunately they didn't have great games (Brown had a decent game) and they're still freshmen. So we will get beat by good teams like we did last night. Smith could have made a huge difference because we could have run plays for him in the post and it would have opened up more open shots for the guards.

So while agree that Leslie/Harrow/Brown didn't have a great game, giving Javi and Williams more minutes would not have made a difference in that game. Agree that Howell should never, EVER, shoot a three pointer again in his career and Leslie should only shoot wide open ones where he can get his feet set. Leslie can be dominant, but he has to adjust his game against bigger and more skilled players than what he faced in high school. He'll get there, but it will take time.

11/22/2010 11:06:39 AM

Javi isn't a role player. He's a 4 year starter in the ACC. And he may not be all-ACC, but he at least can play point and knows how to play defense on the perimeter. What we needed last night during the 17-0 run (or whatever it was) was some senior leadership.

Our perimeter defense was horrible. Couldn't stop the high picks and backdoor cuts. Lots of layups in the 2nd half.

11/22/2010 11:20:02 AM

I dont see how you can say howell is not improved from last year

11/22/2010 11:21:54 AM

Quote :

"Javi isn't a role player. He's a 4 year starter in the ACC."

And that's exactly what his role is.

11/22/2010 11:28:24 AM

Quote :

"He shot the ball over the backboard. THE BACKBOARD!!!"

Ha, I forgot about that. But how about Zo's slam?

11/22/2010 11:29:15 AM

^^Uh...ok.

^Zo's slam was awesome. All the recruiting 'experts' were saying he'd have the most immediate impact (over CJL and Harrow). They couldn't have been more right.

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 11:30 AM. Reason : ^^]

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 11:31 AM. Reason : ^]

11/22/2010 11:30:02 AM

Quote :

"^^Uh...ok."

Just because you're a 4-year start in the ACC doesn't mean you're more than a role player. Larry Drew could start his whole career at UNC and it wouldn't make him a great player.

I respect the shit out of Javi and what he's done here, but he has his limitations. We will never be a threat for an ACC championship or a deep NCAA tourney run if he's asked to be more than a role player. He can start for us, play solid defense, knock down open threes, and try and run the offense to his best abilities and I would be THRILLED. But we don't need him playing 30 minutes at the point and we will have an unsuccessful season if he does. Ryan needs to shore up his defense and take over at the point for us to be a threat. Javi needs to continue to play his "role".

11/22/2010 11:41:25 AM

We got out sized and out muscled in that game, especially in the guard position. Had we had Tracy on the floor that game gets much closer. He could have gotten us through that dry spell in the second half and given us some life and confidence.

Overall i still think it was a good game for our frosh to figure out what real bball is all about. Did anyone notice how pissed Lorenzo looked once he realized the game was lost. I think this will be a good punch in gut for our young guys.

11/22/2010 11:51:30 AM

^ yea a lot of these kids played on teams that maybe lose a handful of games there entire careers in high school. Some of these guys have undefeated season(s). Look at Barnes against Minnesota, they just out-toughed them. The jump from HS to College is enormous.

11/22/2010 11:56:19 AM

Quote :

"we don't need him playing 30 minutes at the point and we will have an unsuccessful season if he does."

college basketball is chock full of role players at the 1, mang.

11/22/2010 11:58:37 AM

all i know is, lo brown is a beast and harrow can be awesome but sometimes gets too fancy for his own good

11/22/2010 12:00:12 PM

^^He can "role it out" for 15-20 minutes a game at the 1, then another 10-15 at the 2 guard for all I care. But we need Harrow and Brown getting more minutes at the 1 if we want to be any type of threat this year.

11/22/2010 12:27:14 PM

Not sure how I feel about a one leading the team in shots taken.. Especially when he is sitting at 40% Ana 18% from 3. That needs to change quickly when Tracy gets back.

[Edited on November 22, 2010 at 12:35 PM. Reason : Harrow takes 7 more shots a game than javi.. Wow]

11/22/2010 12:34:01 PM

I've said it before and I'll say it again: If Javi doesn't step up and lead this team we will not make the NCAA tournament.

And a role player is one dimensional. I.e., has a specific role (lock-down defender, 3 point shooter, etc). Javi can score, defend, run the offense. He's not a great player, but he is a solid player. And he needs to step up and lead this team.

11/22/2010 12:48:54 PM

I agree... And I hate to continue harping on this but Javi is a solid defender for his size and far too many people overlook that aspect of the game because Harrow is more dynamic offensively.

11/22/2010 12:58:04 PM

Quote :

"And I hate to continue harping on this"

You really don't.

11/22/2010 1:07:24 PM

I think our freshman really needed this loss. I think that may also be why he didn't put Javi in at the end. As I said about 2 pages ago, these kids came in with a lot of swagger, which I liked don't get me wrong, but, they are still freshman and got schooled by an experienced jr and sr squad. I'm sure Sid was trying to settle them, he called the TO's when he needed to, but I think it took this loss and the game film from it for him to be able to tell the kids "see, you're not as tough as you thought you were, here's how to fix it". You can tell them what to do all you want, but until they experience it and figure it out themselves, they won't really learn it.

11/22/2010 1:15:12 PM

Javi's definitely a much better defender than Harrow right now. He's quick enough to stay in front of most guards and strong enough to handle most of them as well. But I think if Harrow can defend a little better fundamentally, then he'll be an overall improvement over Javi for what he can bring to the table offensively. Harrow is still quick as shit, so once he gets it beaten in to his head not to go for steals all the time (like CJ goes for blocks) and how to react to screens, then he'll be at least serviceable on the defensive end.

11/22/2010 1:16:05 PM

Actually, I do... I've never been a big Javi fan and love Harrow's potential..

11/22/2010 1:16:06 PM

Quote :

"I think our freshman really needed this loss. I think that may also be why he didn't put Javi in at the end."

I hate the fucking wolfweb

11/22/2010 1:16:10 PM

I really don't see why we can't start Javi and Harrow, and replace Wood with Brown at the 3. (Still like Scott, but he needs to come off the bench at this point. Right now I trust Javi with an open look just as much as Wood.

Harrow
Javi
Brown
Leslie (Howell seems to thrive off the bench)
Painter

If T Smith comes back okay, I love our chances for a great season.

11/22/2010 1:18:13 PM

Javi needs the open look. Wood can actually hit it with a hand in his face and has a quicker release.

He just didn't have the best shooting game yesterday.

11/22/2010 1:21:44 PM

You are correct on all three points, I'm just looking for a bit more consistency. (and nitpicking a bit) I bet Wood shoots less than 20% with a hand in his face.

11/22/2010 1:23:45 PM