I know you think everything I say is just meant to wind you up but...

Quote :

"Tottenham, Man City, and the first half of the liverpool match are perfect examples of how United dominated possession, found overlaps in attack, and negated the oppositions midfield."

Quote :

"aside from a short spell where they were very good (Spurs, LFC, Villa, City) they haven't really impressed me that much"

You're pretty much agreeing with me except the difference is you think they can do that consistently next season with the same squad (and you also gloss over the fact they were absolutely dire in a lot of games this season as well but whatever). I'm not letting a handful of games where they were excellent convince me they can do that next year without adding some more major pieces.

[Edited on April 30, 2015 at 8:55 AM. Reason : .]

4/30/2015 8:48:11 AM

I don't disagree with that point but there is a reason for the slow start United had. Sure Van Gaal had a 150 million to spend but that doesn't guarantee anything. He still had to contend with a short pre season, deals not getting done till the season started, and figuring out a new league with a new team that has a lot expectations.

These things take time and I have seen a consistent improvement in performances. Not to mention Van Gaal himself experimented a lot in the beginning and was hampered by a shit ton of injuries.

In what world are Gundogan, Depay, Clyne, and another CB (say Hummels for example) not big signings? United don't need 7 players like last year. Just key kogs to address key issues. Do you not think with those 4 players in the team that Van Gaal may have been able to mount a title challenge off the back of a good preparation?

If you disagree than that is your prerogative. We will see within the next couple of months the players United sign and what Van Gaal can do with them next season. I am optimistic that with the right signings we should be in the title conversation till at least March next year.

4/30/2015 9:28:01 AM

Yeah, I don't think United would win the title with that team. I don't think Van Gaal does either which is why I expect some bigger players than that. We'll see.

4/30/2015 10:38:36 AM

Quote :

"compared to last year and even under Sir Alex (during his last two years) yes this football is much better"

my goodness, bull motherfucking shit. they were tremendously sharp in those two years, and finished #2 and #1.

4/30/2015 11:03:00 AM

The general play was shit. It wasn't pretty and a lot of times and United held on to slim leads while playing some very static football. It was only because of Sir Alex did United win the title. The sharpness was there, won't disagree. The top notch finishing ability and Vidic and Rio on their last legs won United that title.

The squad wasn't great. I still don't understand how United made that CL final in 2011, probably one of the worst title winning sides Sir Alex had.

I remember every match I would be nervous as hell that United wouldn't make it through and drop points. Just look at how the team crumbled with City needing 8 points in 6 matches to win the title. Sir Alex basically willed that team to a title right before he retired. Let's not forget all the blame he was given when Moyes took over and struggled.

If you don't believe the football Van Gaal has played since February is good then I really don't know what anyone has been watching. The best United squads were between 1995 - 2001 and then 2005 - 2009. Sharp, counter attacking football that exuded everything Sir Alex instilled. From 2010 to 2013 the football wasn't great but United got results.

[Edited on April 30, 2015 at 11:27 AM. Reason : .]

4/30/2015 11:26:34 AM

Quote :

"If you don't believe the football Van Gaal has played since February is good"

that's not what I said. I said it wasn't up to the level of 2011-2013.

At the start of the 2011 seaason, when had had Welbeck and Cleverley breaking into the first squad, that team played wonderful football. Sure, they fell apart at the end, but there were still more outstanding performances (in terms quantity and quality) than LVG's side this year.

As aimorris said, you're looking at a few admittedly really nice performances and taking those as end-all-and-be-all samples of the team's raw quality. Nobody performs at their best all the time, or even most of the time really.

4/30/2015 11:47:23 AM

He has replicated it for 5 out of 6 matches. Its not like they tried to play like that all year, he actually found a system that worked and benched Di Maria and Falcao in the process.

I didn't bring up the slow start to the season to highlight as an excuse. Van Gaal took that long to figure out a system. Before the Tottenham match the criticism was United haven't played well. After the Tottenham match the criticism was can that do it again? Now that he has done it again on more than just one or two occasions, the criticism is again that he has only done it for such a short period? lol.

That 2012 team came no where close to actually dominating top teams like Van Gaal has done in 5 of his last 6. 4 of those performances against the current top 5 mind you. Even against Chelsea the team was very unlucky in losing Carrick and having to drop Rooney. The team still dominated that match and let Chelsea off because of one undisciplined moment. Credit to Chelsea because they are tremendous defensively. Draw would have been a fair result on that day.

The team is judged off its form. Its very clear the quality is there in this United team when players are fit. You don't fluke your way to impressive victories against 3 top 5 teams all within a month of each other.

Given more money to strengthen this team with at least 4 more signings in key positions. A better idea of how the premier league works and a clearer understanding of your teams strengths and weaknesses you don't think a manager like Van Gaal can replicated the quality this team has showcased, admittedly in a short time span? If United can grind out results while not performing with this team, enough to be in the top 4, you don't think this team can add more quality and continue to impress?

[Edited on April 30, 2015 at 12:49 PM. Reason : ,]

4/30/2015 12:47:11 PM

Is buying titles United's philosophy now? Sounds like it.

"Guys, if we just spend another 100+ million this transfer window we may have an outside chance at competing"

[Edited on April 30, 2015 at 1:48 PM. Reason : dont ever change man, please.]

4/30/2015 1:46:16 PM

^ haha. United have gone away from only spending when necessary. It has become apparent that to compete a team must spend money now or have a once in a lifetime manager.

If you are foolish enough to believe that teams don't change their outlook to fit the current market - well actually that shouldn't need to be completed, you are foolish.

I am not going to say United have relied on their academy in the last 8 years, we haven't. However United opened the checkbook exorbitantly in the last two years while other teams have been doing it for over a decade now. United have also continued to have the academy play a key role. Januzaj, Periera, McNair, Blackett, and Wilson all have a chance to go on to become very good players. Lets see where they are in 5 years.

Carry on being a tool ribs, never change!

4/30/2015 2:22:49 PM

You championed United's academy and thumbed your nose at spending teams like a year ago, now look where we are. Fucking hypocrite. That sentence should read...

Quote :

"If you are foolish enough to believe that Wazza doesn't change his philosophy to fit the current argument - well actually that shouldn't need to be completed, you are foolish."

4/30/2015 2:36:43 PM

hahaha.

As I said never change. I don't see Chelsea and City bringing through any academy graduates. If you really want to know, and please feel free to waste your time digging through the old thread, my problem is teams spending money and bankrolling losses. That isn't spending within their means, that is winning the lottery and ignoring the losses because your owner has deep pockets. Not exactly self sustaining.

Whatever though, go on calling me a hypocrite when its clear United still hold the academy in regard and still haven't outspent City or Chelsea. Where is Tottenham's sustainability? Down in the drain after spunking 100 million on overrated players that haven't gotten you results.

[Edited on April 30, 2015 at 2:43 PM. Reason : d]

4/30/2015 2:42:50 PM

the £100m spurs spent was recouped with the Bale sale

4/30/2015 2:46:47 PM

United have held on to the purse strings after Ronaldo as well. Until Mata United hadn't spent more than 30 million on one player. Rarely bought world class players and often preferred to get young players around 20-25 million and turn them into world class players. Rio Ferdinand, Ronaldo, and Wayne Rooney are tremendous examples of that. Three great players on the cusp of greatness who achieved to reach it at United.

Di Maria, Falcao, and Mata are aberrations. Rarely have United bought players of this quality outright. Cantona, Veron, RVN, Keane, and Cole are a few exceptions. It hasn't exactly been normal for United to go on spending sprees. The transfers have usually been good value signings.

What has been massively lucky is that the class of 92 coincided with the rise of the premier league. That academy class laid the foundation for United because those academy graduates brought us the success that have given United the ability to turn into a commercial juggernaut. Any money United spend now is pretty much recouped by the annual turnover.

[Edited on April 30, 2015 at 3:01 PM. Reason : d]

4/30/2015 2:59:43 PM

@MirrorFootball: What have #MUFC come to when hitting it up to Fellaini is Plan A and Plan B? | @RobbieSavage8 http://t.co/h8TO5xFHf8 http://t.co/lKITuEEd5A

4/30/2015 3:19:18 PM

Quote :

" I don't see Chelsea and City bringing through any academy graduates."

There also weren't any city or chelsea fans in this thread claiming their club relied on doing things "the right way" by relying on academy graduates as part of their philosophy as a club.

Quote :

"If you really want to know, and please feel free to waste your time digging through the old thread, my problem is teams spending money and bankrolling losses."

You conveniently never mentioned that and we've been arguing this for years now. Interesting... you wouldn't be playing revisionist history again would you?

4/30/2015 3:22:29 PM

lol savage wouldn't be talking about this if Rooney or Falcao had buried one of their 3 or 4 chances against Chelsea. Everton did a great job in not only isolating Fellaini but also isolating all of United's attack. I am curious to see how Van Gaal can address that when United come up against teams who play compact on a narrow pitch and can't stretch the opposition.

Fellaini as plan a and b is laughable. United have two flanks of attack, Young Fellaini, and Shaw on the left and Herrera, Valencia, and Mata on the right. To say United have hoofed it up to Fellaini and dominated possession and nullified the oppositions attack is just hilarious. As I said, watch the matches, Fellaini is only one part of the attack, not the only part. The pivotal cog in this is Michael Carrick. Someone who can recycle possession.

Fellaini helps stretch the pitch but also hold up the ball. I wouldn't call Everton's win figuring out how to handle Fellaini, it was figuring out how to keep United from finding the space behind the pack 4. They put 10 behind the ball and countered admirably. The goals were all very poor goals to give up and a sign of a bad day of the office. West Brom is coming up soon, but I suppose a win there would only mean that United beat an easy opposition.

No winning here I suppose.

4/30/2015 3:28:07 PM

You'll never win because people call you on your bullshit at every turn

4/30/2015 3:29:36 PM

Quote :

"There also weren't any city or chelsea fans in this thread claiming their club relied on doing things "the right way" by relying on academy graduates as part of their philosophy as a club."

How exactly has United gotten away from that then? McNair and Blackett have broken through to the first team this year. Periera is on the cusp of the first team. Wilson hopefully will get his chances next year as well. Van Gaal has even said Januzaj features in his long term plans.

To say United haven't put an emphasis on its academy is just being ignorant. Out of the top 5 only Arsenal and Liverpool have that claim.

There is a reason every United match day squad since like 1930 has featured an academy graduate. Also where did I say that I am happy the club is moving away from this philosophy? I don't control the board and I don't control the transfers. I will be much much happier if McNair was given a chance to prove himself next year instead of signing a defender in his place. I will be even more happier if McNair, Januzaj, Periera, and Wilson go on to become great players for United instead of Di Maria and Blind.

4/30/2015 3:35:09 PM

Quote :

"You conveniently never mentioned that and we've been arguing this for years now. Interesting... you wouldn't be playing revisionist history again would you?"

lol. As I said I am not going to waste my time continuously calling you out on your stupidity. If you like please go ahead and waste your own time, its probably worthless anyway.

[Edited on April 30, 2015 at 3:39 PM. Reason : s]

4/30/2015 3:38:40 PM

Stop it. With a fit squad McNair and Blackett are no where near the XI. FFS I'm not sitting here claiming Chuba Akpom spot filling in as a sub when Giroud was hurt as some sort of praise of the Arsenal academy.

Arsenal does well using Southamptons academy tho.

[Edited on April 30, 2015 at 3:42 PM. Reason : X]

4/30/2015 3:41:20 PM

Yes they wouldn't start because they are inexperience, however when given the chance they have taken it. Haven't Coquelin and Bellerin done the same or does Arsenal not consider them academy graduates?

Van Gaal trusted McNair enough to start him twice against Chelsea and he has played well enough to earn 14 appearances this year. Just because it was born out of necessity doesn't take away from the fact that this is a talented academy graduate who will certainly feature in the first team moving forward. It does sadden me that clubs and fans these days want instant results. Youth products need to be given the chance to prove themselves. If you recall this is one of the reasons I was excited for Van Gaal. If we make the CL next year I hope Van Gaal trusts the kids enough to start them in the rotation. I will just have to wait and see.

[Edited on April 30, 2015 at 4:06 PM. Reason : s]

4/30/2015 4:01:39 PM

Bellerin is from La Masia, Coquelin was bought as a 17 year old. Most all of the young players in the Arsenal first team were bought in the 16-20 age range.

Only real academy graduate in the Arsenal squad is Wilshere

4/30/2015 4:38:42 PM

100 million quid for Bale? Get the fuck out. Please do not let that be true. Would be extremely disappointed we decided to go down that route. Absolutely unnecessary and ludicrous amounts of money. I don't know what Ed Woodward is smoking but he needs to pass some my way because apparently its amazing.

4/30/2015 7:49:02 PM

PHILOSOPHY

5/2/2015 2:24:55 PM

Lol did I see Rooney and RVP playing in midfield with Fellaini up top. Wat.

Shame on Liverpool for fucking it up so bad and letting this dross still be in position for top four.

5/2/2015 3:55:20 PM

^ haha. This dross that deservedly beat Liverpool, not Liverpool fucking it up.

Horrible performance. LVG needs to change it again. Teams are doing well parking the bus when there is no one to recycle possession and exploit space in the middle. RVPalso had a terrible match. Still think getting a CB, CDM, and RB are the only reinforcements needed. Just goes to show how static this team is in attack without Carrick. Now in real danger of truly fucking up top 4.

5/2/2015 4:51:52 PM

You just needed to hoof it more like you did when you were winning.

5/2/2015 5:20:19 PM

Quote :

"my problem is teams spending money and bankrolling losses. That isn't spending within their means, that is winning the lottery and ignoring the losses because your owner has deep pockets."

So only best/most popular teams are allowed to spend money?

5/2/2015 6:36:22 PM

This is not the NFL you stupid yank. Teams should not spend outside their means.

5/2/2015 7:12:51 PM

NFL has a salary cap moron. And that's a great philosophy to have if are a fan of one of the richest teams.

5/2/2015 8:13:59 PM

recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession recycle possession

5/2/2015 11:31:55 PM

I fucking hate John Terry.

5/3/2015 10:24:29 AM

Woot! Go Chelsea!!

5/3/2015 11:03:52 AM

Chelsea clinch the league title with a 1-0 win on a bullshit penalty. What a perfect summary of their season and philosophy

Fuck Chelsea. I respect Barcelona and Bayern because they play nice football, but Chelsea are just a bunch nutless, minimally talented pragmatists.

5/3/2015 11:13:01 AM

Yeah okay. He got taken out by two defenders. As the announcer stated, that was an obvious penalty.

5/3/2015 11:29:56 AM

^^
Exactly. I can't wait to get back to the exciting, attacking title winning sides of Man United and Arsenal.

5/3/2015 11:33:40 AM

^^
you must not have watched the replay and seen that neither defender even touches him

nor heard Gary Neville basically say "That's not a penalty"

5/3/2015 11:36:43 AM

Maybe I'm missing something but it looks like the first defender shoves him with a forearm knocking him into the other defender who takes out his leg. Neither defender touches the ball.

5/3/2015 11:40:09 AM

^
okay, you're right, the dude touches Hazard with his forearm...I missed that.

but it REALLY doesn't look like either defender touches his legs at any point. he just bundles over. check out the highlights in this video, around 0:33

http://www.fullmatchesandshows.com/2015/05/03/chelsea-vs-crystal-palace-highlights-full-match/

it's nothing unusual in world football, but seriously, he trips over absolutely nothing.



[Edited on May 3, 2015 at 11:52 AM. Reason : your video doesn't show their feet]

5/3/2015 11:49:05 AM

It looks like the 2nd defender gets him in the upper thigh or hip which caused the change in direction

[Edited on May 3, 2015 at 12:18 PM. Reason : .]

5/3/2015 12:07:58 PM

No, it doesn't. In the 2nd replay, you can pretty clearly tell that there's zero contact below the waist.

If he sprawls over as if there had been such contact, that's because he's diving, obviously.

5/3/2015 12:21:51 PM

one could argue it is a soft penalty but they have been given before. Chelsea deserved to win the title anyway so I don't see why this penalty is a big talking point. Penalties much softer than these are often given.

5/4/2015 9:54:22 AM

Yes, of course, softer penalties are often given, and Chelsea were going to win the league anyway.

But it should be clear from the discussion that this penalty had taken on a symbolic value...I claimed for Chelsea to win the league on a bullshit penalty was an excellent microcosm for their season, so it kinda became evidence in a larger question

Also, if Man U were involved in this penalty (on either side), you'd be posting five-paragraph arguments in their favor; so don't act like you're too high and mighty to debate the awarding of a penalty kick.

5/4/2015 10:39:53 AM

Depends on the amount of recycled possession before the penalty claim.

5/4/2015 10:50:16 AM

They would have recycled it back out before getting in the position to win a penalty

5/4/2015 10:56:37 AM

Not even discussing United and guess what? The idiots on TWW have decided to keep obsessing over it.

You see my post for the WBA match? Did I make any excuses? You see my posts after the everton match? I call it like I see it and if you disagree with it then that is your prerogative. I have always acknowledged when United don't deserve a penalty so keep on being a petulant twat about everything related to United. Even when the conversation doesn't involve United.

I even went as far as congratulating pool last year. Won't see the same from the other when United play well. Sir Alex' domination was always shat on by the rivals as buying refs and intimidation. The hatred must be nice.

[Edited on May 4, 2015 at 11:15 AM. Reason : s]

5/4/2015 11:13:41 AM

Gonna lol when Arsenal have more trophies than RVP I his time at United (though tbf I'd take one PL over 2 FA Cups).

I wonder what Turkish or mid-table Serie A club he will play for next year?

5/4/2015 11:36:28 AM

So you're going to laugh at united because 2>1, then in the same sentence admitted you'd rather have their one title.

Why even post that?

5/4/2015 12:37:33 PM

he mad prob

5/4/2015 12:49:08 PM

lol. Arsenal haven't even won that second FA cup yet. Don't underestimate tactics timmy.

5/4/2015 1:25:32 PM