Quote :

"I just hate social media, and I think it is a horrible outlet for news. But twitter is the worst. You can't get news across in 140 characters. You just can't."

what headlines have you ever seen that are more than 140 characters?

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 10:52 AM. Reason : GIVE ME LONGFORM OR GIVE ME DEATH]

1/23/2017 10:51:28 AM

Twitter is good for getting out headlines and linking to the actual story thats about it. I generally browse twitter because it consolidates a lot of stuff into one space. If I see something come across that says Breaking News: Terrorist attack at so and so then I will find my way to an actual news site to see the story. So I agree for actual news Twitter isnt really the platform for that.

1/23/2017 10:56:30 AM

Quote :

"^^Well, for starters, the one about the crowds at inauguration"

No Trump supporter cares about something as irrelevant as "inauguration attendance". They care about what Trump's team wrote for his speech, what his first actions are going to be. The fact that the attendance even becomes an issue is further evidence, to Trump supporters, that the media just wants to attack Trump, and keep pivoting the discussion from anything of relevance.

I doubt many Trump supporters would care if one of his guys misspoke, exaggerated, or BSed something when they view the initial attack he is defending against as BS to begin with.

1/23/2017 10:59:27 AM

Quote :

"What specific lies are you referring to"

I'm going to respond to you once even though I know I shouldn't and that will be it unless you actually respond in some sort of intelligent way

1) The size of the inaugural crowd, both live and watching on TV
2) Whether or not he will release his tax returns

Those are the two largest in the first 3 days here, but even if you want to somehow claim those aren't lies, that's not even my question. The question is, how many lies would it take for you to not vote for him again?

^ so to be clear you are basically saying you don't care if he lies so long as it's about something you don't care about

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 11:01 AM. Reason : s]

1/23/2017 10:59:49 AM

Quote :

"No Trump supporter cares about something as irrelevant as "inauguration attendance". They care about what Trump's team wrote for his speech, what his first actions are going to be. The fact that the attendance even becomes an issue is further evidence, to Trump supporters, that the media just wants to attack Trump, and keep pivoting the discussion from anything of relevance. "

If nobody cares, then why the fuck did he have his WH press secretary waste his time going in front of the press to cry about it?

1/23/2017 11:04:34 AM

Ya know while this was a huge blow to the Democrats presently I think if they want to be forward looking they have to know they have 2020 in the bag and depending just how things go they may be able to point back at nominating Trump for decades as good enough reason not to trust the GOP judgement.

Up until this point in my life I have always sided Republican but this whole process has made me question if that is actually what I believe. I fall on both sides with regards to certain issues so I don't really feel anymore that either party entirely represents my thoughts. I am hoping this will be the case where the GOP doesn't run Trump for reelection if he makes it 4 years. I would like to at least feel like I have options in 4 years.

1/23/2017 11:12:33 AM

^These are my thoughts exactly.

1/23/2017 11:15:21 AM

edit fail

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 11:36 AM. Reason : .]

1/23/2017 11:35:43 AM

Trump's national security adviser received payment from RT (the russian state broadcaster)?

what the fuck, i feel like we are living in crazy town

1/23/2017 11:39:10 AM

What source are you looking at?

1/23/2017 11:42:34 AM

I don't think all "lies" in politics are equal, as we see with factchecking websites they usually try to rank how "big" of a lie it is, so for the two examples you gave I think one is a big lie about an important issue the other isn't. I think equating the two weakens your argument.

Quote :

"1) The size of the inaugural crowd, both live and watching on TV"

I don't recall a direct quote from Trump about this that was a lie, either way like I said Trump supporters view this as more "anti-Trump propaganda" and don't care.

Quote :

"2) Whether or not he will release his tax returns"

This is a very valid concern. I would imagine his tax returns would reveal how he took advantage of a broken system. Part of his campaign was he was claiming he would work to fix that system, and that Clinton's donors wanted the broken system in place.

So I think lying about the tax return is a big minus, though I would argue deleting pay to play emails post congressional subpoena as a public servant was a HUGE minus that nobody on your side seemed to care about, so yea I'd go with Trump still.

1/23/2017 11:53:03 AM

1/23/2017 11:53:43 AM

^^but but but.....what about Hillary's emails.........


Hopefully Trumpkins can come up with a better defense than emails in the next 4 years.

1/23/2017 12:00:32 PM

I would argue that plus her general hawkishness absolutely hurt her among Democrats, especially the more Progressive wing. How someone can claim it didn't is beyond me.

----

The fact that Trump is so insecure and delicate that he needs to bring a entourage to cheer for him everywhere is sort of hilarious.

1/23/2017 12:02:37 PM

Quote :

"^^but but but.....what about Hillary's emails......... Hopefully Trumpkins can come up with a better defense than emails in the next 4 years"

Like I said, nobody on your side seemed to care. You make my point for me.

I'd also point out the GOP didn't want Trump to win, and this was before he was so shady about his tax returns.

The corrupt DNC rigged the system for Clinton, knowing full well about her deleting emails after a subpoena.

1/23/2017 12:11:09 PM

He's clearly afraid the returns will show how poor he is at business. They will also reveal how he is using the office of the presidency to fix those poor businesses.

Get in the mind of the thin-skinned narcissist -- these are the reasons to continue to hide this information. We've had mega rich presidents/candidates before and they dealt with this.

Trump is too emotionally fragile to deal with embarrassment. <-- shameful this can be written about our fucking president.

1/23/2017 12:17:47 PM

Quote :

"I think equating the two weakens your argument."

I'm not equating anything, I'm simply listing lies, not ranking importance. How many lies until someone is just a liar and you wouldn't vote for them any more?

Quote :

"I don't recall a direct quote from Trump about this that was a lie"

I said Trump or his people...i.e. people that are speaking for him. Here is the quote:

Quote :

"This was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration — period — both in person and around the globe"

That is, at best, a completely unsubstantiated claim that contradicts all currently known facts and figures regarding both the in person and television audience. That's either gross incompetence and a complete inability to analyze numbers, or a lie. And again, a lie is a lie. If your argument is that lying about something that you don't care about doesn't count, than go ahead.

Quote :

"though I would argue deleting pay to play emails post congressional subpoena as a public servant was a HUGE minus"

Again, this isn't a comparison to Clinton. I'm asking about how you feel about Trump going forward

1/23/2017 12:23:56 PM

Currently being reported by AP we flew a sortie with Russia over Syria, but haven't seen any official confirmation.

1/23/2017 12:33:10 PM

Quote :

"Again, this isn't a comparison to Clinton. I'm asking about how you feel about Trump going forward"

No. You said "The question is, how many lies would it take for you to not vote for him again?"

So naturally I have to look at the other option and compare the two in order to know how I would vote. There isn't a magic "lie threshold" where one candidate with 5 lies is disqualified and the other candidate with 4 is not.

Quote :

"a lie is a lie."

Then by that logic, an irrelevant lie like "landing under sniper fire" should be material to my decision? That isn't how it works.

To answer your question, if Trump flip-flopped on something yuuuge like the wall, or a conservative supreme court justice pick, etc, he would have no chance getting re-elected.

1/23/2017 12:39:39 PM

I don't mean if we re-voted I mean in 4 years when the other candidate almost definitely won't be Clinton

I'm not asking whether you think he'll be reelected or not

The heart of what I'm trying to find out is when will YOU, just you, simply recognize that Trump is a pathological liar. How many lies does that take?

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 12:47 PM. Reason : s]

1/23/2017 12:45:39 PM

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-politics/wp/2017/01/23/trump-signs-executive-orders-on-federal-hiring-freeze-tpp-withdrawal-and-global-abortion-gag/?utm_term=.402f67b3613a

A federal hiring freeze for all depts except military doesn't make any sense.

It's admitting you need good people to function well, but then saying you don't want government services that literally affect everyone to function well.

1/23/2017 12:45:44 PM

I bitched about Obama's executive orders, and I'm gonna bitch about these.

I hiring freeze doesn't make any sense at all. What would make more sense is a committee dedicated to trimming departmental fat. Or perhaps an executive order that makes it easier to fire federal employees. But to freeze hiring?

1/23/2017 12:49:26 PM

off of the top of your head, could you name one specific Executive Order from the Obama presidency that you still feel is legitimately damaging?

1/23/2017 12:57:13 PM

^^Well said, but maybe this is step one of that? There is no need to continue to hire, if you are planning on making employee cuts.

1/23/2017 1:09:07 PM

I know you'll disagree tgl, but I still don't agree with the gitmo closing EO. But I just don't like them in general. We have an entire branch dedicated to creating laws, regulations and such.

And I fear that Trump is going to be a maniac when it comes to EO's. He is already proving himself to be one.

^Corporations do that all the time. They cut while continuing to hire better, fresher talent.

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 1:19 PM. Reason : sdfa]

1/23/2017 1:18:01 PM

Quote :

"but I still don't agree with the gitmo closing EO."

you don't agree with something that never happened?

Quote :

"We have an entire branch dedicated to creating laws, regulations and such. "

the same branch that gives the president the authority to issue Executive Orders?

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 1:34 PM. Reason : .]

1/23/2017 1:30:00 PM

https://twitter.com/jpacedc/status/823596000828882944

Us flying with Russians bogus

1/23/2017 1:34:29 PM

Quote :

"The heart of what I'm trying to find out is when will YOU, just you, simply recognize that Trump is a pathological liar. How many lies does that take?"

I don't consider Trump a pathological liar, nor do I consider Obama, Bush, or Clinton pathological liars. I consider them politicians, and by political standards they do what all politicians do: Say whatever it takes to get elected.

I think "liar" has a different context in politics. A better term for Trump would be "Bullshitter". Half of being a politician is being able to talk a lot without saying anything aka "rhetoric". I think all of our presidents have been pretty good at bullshitting, you tell people what you think they want to hear, hopefully without making any concrete promises in your statement that people can point to later on for hypocrisy. That is the art of being a politician, its convincing people you will do a lot without ever making yourself accountable for doing a lot.

1/23/2017 2:25:34 PM

I understand you don't consider him one now, I'm asking what it would take

I understand your distinction of being a liar to being a bullshitter.

Saying you're worth a gazillion dollars when it's probably less is bullshitting

Saying you're going to build a wall and make Mexico pay for it and perhaps not being able to pass that through Congress is bullshitting

Saying you will release your taxes a dozen times and then 11 days later saying you're never going to release them is a lie, that's not just bullshitting.

Saying "this was the largest audience to ever witness an inauguration, period, both in person and around the world" when all evidence points to the contrary is a lie, not just bullshitting to sway people over

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 2:53 PM. Reason : df]

1/23/2017 2:52:36 PM

And let's not say "all presidents lie, get over it."

He's been in office 3 days, and he's already given us several doozies. We have 4 years of this mess.

1/23/2017 2:55:59 PM

http://boingboing.net/2017/01/23/the-bizarre-story-of-trumps.html

so we have melania copying michele's speech, and now the inaguration cake.

what else have the trumps ripped off from the obamas?

1/23/2017 2:57:03 PM

I agree the tax return is a lie, it's a broken promise that the democratic nominee will attack him on next year. If he did something like that on any of the promises I actually care about, he would lose my vote, even if the DNC runs weekend at Hillary's 2020.

1/23/2017 2:59:47 PM

Trump's new dog, Ro:

1/23/2017 3:00:34 PM

So like I said, you don't care if he's a liar if he's only lying about things you don't care about, got it

What are the promises you care about?

1/23/2017 3:02:43 PM

Lol this press conference is absurdly entertaining. Spiced basically admitted Trump (the most powerful man on earth now) had sads that people didn't adore him all weekend.

Do we need to make the the Oval Office a safe space? It's so bizarre seeing a guy campaign against PC be so triggered by words and protests.

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 3:05 PM. Reason : He loves the press too and CRAVES their adoration. All one big act.]

1/23/2017 3:04:26 PM

Quote :

"What are the promises you care about?"

The Wall, and the conservative supreme court appointee(s) primarily.

I still don't believe Trump is remotely conservative, anything else he does that is conservative is icing on the cake.

1/23/2017 3:27:33 PM

The fact that you care about the wall is proof enough that we just all need to block your posts. Can we even do that anymore?

You really care about the wall? What about that wall appeals to you? Do you find it more appealing as some symbol? Or do you honestly think that a wall is going to keep people out?

1/23/2017 3:31:12 PM

You want to block my posts because you disagree with me on a political issue? How very progressive of you.

1/23/2017 3:33:50 PM

nah man, it just shows you're an idiot that can't be taken seriously

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 3:41 PM. Reason : and apparently too stupid to realize rjrumfel isn't trying to be "progressive"]

1/23/2017 3:41:04 PM

I like the wall because illegal immigration is doing irreparable damage to the voting demographics. Anchor babies have higher birthrates, and require more government assistance, and they vote 8 to 2 in favor of big government/handouts (democrats). As a nation $20 trillion in debt, the last thing we need to do is import more poor people. You cannot have a welfare state with open borders.

Also Bullet, I'm flattered you're such a big fan of me, but until you can put on your big boy pants and actually counter any of my arguments, please stop replying to my posts. Nobody cares you are triggered by a differing opinion

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 3:44 PM. Reason : .]

1/23/2017 3:43:38 PM

You still haven't answered my question.

I didn't ask you what you dislike about illegal immigration. I asked you what you like about the wall. As in, what do you like about the wall.

Don't give me stats about illegal immigration, I already know them. Give me stats about how a wall is going to fix it.

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 3:49 PM. Reason : Me, progressive. Lol.]

1/23/2017 3:48:58 PM

Quote :

"As a nation $20 trillion in debt, the last thing we need to do is import more poor people. You cannot have a welfare state with open borders."

Since you seem to be trying to converse today... Do you know how the federal deficit works? G-S is a pretty easy equation so I'm sure you do.

Do you think that Trump's tax cuts and increase in infrastructure spending plans along with the fact that our trade deficit will almost assuredly increase given his policy will decrease the deficit? Do you think illegal immigration or anchor babies have any appreciable effect on this?

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 3:52 PM. Reason : ^ immigration and the deficit have almost no relationship. His response was gibberish]

1/23/2017 3:51:23 PM

^^You're asking me to explain to you how a wall prevents people from entering?

Always impressed by the intellectual stimulation I get posting in TSB.

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 3:53 PM. Reason : x]

1/23/2017 3:53:25 PM

Isn't net migration close to 0 these days? I'm pretty sure it's a none issue.

You're worried about national debt? Nothing about Trump suggests he wont take it to 25 trillion.

1/23/2017 3:54:10 PM

In four years.

And if he is going to create 25 million jobs and get GDP over 4% it would take a FDR type spending bill.

1/23/2017 3:56:58 PM

^^^Yes. I'm asking exactly how a wall is going to keep people from entering this country.

Because you honestly think a physical wall is going to keep people out.

Congrats man you bought it. Hook, line and sinker.

I was really hoping you were going for more of a logical wall. You know, maybe legislation that tightens border security or something. I left that door open for you. But nope. You actually think a goddamned physical wall that spans thousands of miles is going to fix this problem you perceive.

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 3:57 PM. Reason : Sorry, that was rude of me.]

1/23/2017 3:57:03 PM

^^^I agree. Like I said I don't consider Trump a conservative by any means. I'm thinking what he can do in 4 years that helps long term.

That includes slowing the demographic change (though it may be too little too late), and stopping leftist activist judges from getting on the supreme court and creating unconstitutional socialist policies we can't afford to begin with.

[Edited on January 23, 2017 at 4:01 PM. Reason : x]

1/23/2017 4:01:02 PM

Do you win the argument if he starts ignoring you?

1/23/2017 4:04:40 PM

A majority of illegal immigrants today enter the country legally and simply overstay their visa.

Please explain how a big ass wall does anything to remedy this.

1/23/2017 4:04:59 PM

rapists don't get student visas

1/23/2017 4:07:59 PM