Quote :

"Harris literally offers nothing other recruiting. He just sits on the bench the entire year looking like a T-Rex and occasionally face palming"

He used to yell at Gavin Grant and awful lot.

1/26/2011 12:37:34 AM

Thats my point. No one wanted those players. Look at their list of schools. My other point is we need to clean house. It has nothing to do with Larry's ability or lack there of. You can debate that in another thread. The only way Sid survives is if we beat the fagholes twice and win the ACC tournament. Because at this point ,given how bad the ACC is, we have no shot of making the tourney being a fifth place team at best.

1/26/2011 12:38:19 AM

Who is chris wright? I could care less who likes or dislikes Harris. My point is its time for him and everybody else on that bench to go.

1/26/2011 12:42:32 AM

1/26/2011 12:48:04 AM

1/26/2011 12:52:29 AM

You dont even know who Chris Wright is just shut the fuck up already.


Are you even aware Harris has been with the program longer than Sidney?


If we replaced Lowe at the end of the season what could be stupider than getting rid of the #1 NC State point of contact with every high school coach in the southeast? What could make it more likely we lose our current commits and prospects?

I'm done with this, you're an idiot and your opinion is a joke in this case.

1/26/2011 1:03:12 AM

Quote :

"^^^see that's the fucking bullshit that I'm talking about yes, make him resign, fire him, whatever, but he is still part of our family. Believe it or not, there is a line, and I don't give a fuck if this is just tww, some of you people are out of control. I really hope you are different in your actual lives and just lose all sense of propriety on the internet."

You're taking things too seriously here.

Sidney Lowe is always going to be an NC State hero. He didn't work out as head coach of the men's basketball team, and that's okay. I don't hate him because he wasn't a great college coach. I really think he's given 101% every day that he's been on the job. I have no problem with his effort or passion. I have no personal problem with him at all. I have a problem with the results.

As far as Sidney Lowe, head coach of the Wolfpack men's basketball team, or any other person who holds that job, they'll always receive criticism from fans. That criticism will be especially loud when the fan base is staring at a 5th consecutive year of not making the trip to the NCAA tournament.

1/26/2011 1:17:46 AM

This situation is similar to Randy Shannon at Miami.

Only Randy Shannon had far more success.

1/26/2011 2:11:51 AM

^^ Maybe I'm being a little too sensitive liberal homo here, but it just sucks to see the extreme end of the outrage directed at Sid personally. Honestly just with his history and the situation he was put in it makes it different than most normal coaching positions. I don't think I would care nearly as much if it were anyone else, I guess I just have a mad crush on Sid Lowe. It's really too bad things aren't working out.

Oh well, it's just some faceless people on the internet and Sid will be just fine when he gets another job in the NBA somewhere.

1/26/2011 2:45:49 AM

the situation he was put in.

a perennial NCAA tournament team.

1/26/2011 2:49:09 AM

well, let's work with the highly plausible theory that he is not an adequate coach. never been a head coach in college before, had shitty head coach experience with the fucking griz and raptors.

the situation he was put in? how about following up the guy who decided to leave due to pressure/fans/love of cactus, who was crucified in spite of leading a perennial tournament team? how about being the god knows what option after we whiffed all over the place? i'm not going to get into the great talent debate of what he was left with, but for a first time college coach (ever! in any capacity!) to step into herb's shoes here in Raleigh...you got to admit that's pretty rough.

1/26/2011 3:00:08 AM

Quote :

" Tracy just hasn't gotten it all together this season. He played better tonight but he's still not close to as effective as he was last season, so frustrating. At this point I just don't think he can do all the things he is used to being able to do and its affecting his confidence."

I don't get how you watch so much basketball and you can't see the forest for the trees. Smith is only as good as the people around him allow him to be. And that isn't on the people, it starts with the coach. He was better last year because there was literally NO ONE ELSE. Now, we supposedly have better people and the focus is off him when maybe it should still be on him. The bottom line is, our coach has never extracted max potential out of any one player and certainly out of the sum of them together.

Only homers and people more interested in winning an argument on the internet can't see it.

1/26/2011 6:56:38 AM

I call dibs on the next credibility thread

1/26/2011 7:13:30 AM

Yo dawg, I heard you like trolls. So, we put a troll in your troll thread!

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 7:30 AM. Reason : .]

1/26/2011 7:29:38 AM

Quote :

"let's all take guesses. How many pages does this thread when Sid is no longer the NCSU bball coach?"

Too bad Fowler is gone. It would have been interesting to see 4 digit page numbers.

1/26/2011 7:33:51 AM

Harris is probably the best thing the coaching staff has going. To bad he's not a great coach. We should try and just build a coaching staff around our assistant coach.

But for realz...pretty much every recruit we've signed in the past 15 years has made it a point to mention how important Larry Harris was in their decision to come to NC State. Herb was not happy when he didn't follow him to ASU. Get rid of Towe if you're getting rid of assistants. About the only thing he adds to the bench is the ability to get the best possible tee time the next day.

Last night was unbelievable. Even I still held out a little hope that we had an outside shot at the NCAA. I think it would have been better had we actually played a decent game for 40 minutes and went wire to wire with Clemson. Losing a game like that really takes the wind out of your sails...the team and the fans. I do remember thinking to myself last night as the game was ending, I bet this pushes Ernie over the edge.

1/26/2011 7:43:05 AM

I am glad I did not watch this game. I probably would have broken the TV. Great timing that we get to follow up this abortion with a game in Chapel Hill. Fucking fantastic. I bet we are down by 20 ten minutes into the game on Saturday. What the fuck is wrong with this team?

1/26/2011 8:07:05 AM

Quote :

"the situation he was put in. a perennial NCAA tournament team."

That the outgoing coach threw the biggest monkey wrench into as he left in the middle of the night.

Understandably, it's the AD's job to know these sorts of things are happening, but I was f'n floored when I heard Herb was leaving...not fired. And that started the process of sending this whole program back to ground zero.

1/26/2011 8:24:11 AM

1/26/2011 8:50:58 AM

Quote :

"I do remember thinking to myself last night as the game was ending, I bet this pushes Ernie over the edge."

I think the evidence is in the game thread....


someone else -

Quote :

"Someone summarize the actions that led to the defeat. I didn't see the game"

Ernie -

Quote :

"1. On May 6, 2006, Lowe was named the new head basketball coach of North Carolina State University"

Right now, I feel exactly like I did when Amato needed to go. Thanks for all you did for the school in the past, but I'm on some Janet Jackson What Have You Done For Me Lately-type shit.

I won you a national championship! Great, that was in 1983.

I beat UNC! Great, that was 5 years ago, and you haven't done it since.

I beat Duke! Great, that was the lone bright spot in a bad year last year.

I brought you a top-ranked recruiting class! Great, but you can't seem to coach them to success. Even a Ferrari will break down if you don't change the oil.


What's saddest to me is that in Lowe's 5 year tenure, I can name only those 3 achievements... even Herb had more than that, and everyone knows that I hated Herb Sendek with a passion.


It is time for NC State to move on, and most importantly it is time for NC State to move FORWARD.


We Our Athletic Director can't keep letting sentimentality overrule common sense.

1/26/2011 9:26:25 AM

the highlight of SL's career was the Red/White Game before his second season when we were all super pumped about the team and him. I remember being there and he got a HUGE ovation when he was introduced.

then that season happened.

1/26/2011 9:32:57 AM

There's nothing left to be said in this thread

Zero credibility, everyone is on board now

Pretty much anything else is kicking dirt in his face

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:38 AM. Reason : ^^ aha, check my first post in here last night]

1/26/2011 9:37:11 AM

Before last night I was like, "if we can beat Clemson then upset UNC at home this weekend, maybe Sid can turn this thing around and save his job and our program has a chance."

After last night, we could beat UNC by 40 on Saturday and I'm pretty sure my overall opinion of Sidney needing to step aside at the end of the year would not change.

1/26/2011 9:38:28 AM

There's nothing left to be said, but I'll say this

I agree 100% with jbrick's post, there's nothing he could conceivably do to change my opinion. Most people understood this, but a lot didn't: I, like a lot of others here, never was rooting for Bad Sid to get another year, we just thought that Good Sid would eventually win out. It's frustrating as hell that he showed flashes of putting it all together before ultimately shitting the bed -- especially in one damn game. We were clicking the first 15 minutes like no game I've seen before, not even Wake. And then we play the absolute worst final 25 in college basketball history, and it's 100% on Sid.

I mean goddammit look at this

1/26/2011 9:44:22 AM

Quote :

""Someone summarize the actions that led to the defeat. I didn't see the game""

I think Riddick and Reynolds summed it up greatly:

Quote :

"Anatomy Of A Meltdown The following are notes I scribbled re-watching "The Meltdown"—from about 6:00 remaining in the first half, when the Pack enjoyed a 31-12 lead, until the game was well in Clemson's favor. Admittedly, I went into this focusing solely on CJ Leslie and his miscues, but it was clear he was not the only guilty party. You could say, though, he was the grossest offender. Enjoy… 5:52 left in the first – CJ Leslie is in position for an easy rebound but mistimes his jump. The ball squirts out of his hands out of bounds. Bryan Narcisse gets an easy dunk on the ensuing possession due to weak help defense from Tracy Smith. 31-14 5:19, CJ cheats off his man Milton Jennings to assist Ryan Harrow guarding Andre Young at the foul line. Young hits an open Jennings with a pass and Leslie is too late to recover, Jennings drains the three. Timeout, Sidney Lowe, 2nd of the half. 31-17 4:26, CJ loses track of Jennings while trying to rebound. This is a common theme the rest of the night. 3:59, CJ wanders away from Jennings again, trying to assist underneath the basket. A shot goes up and Jennings, unchecked by Leslie, grabs the rebound. Leslie reaches in and fouls Jennings on his put-back attempt, and Jennings hits 1-of-2 at the line. 32-18 3:28, while guarding Jerai Grant, weakly contests a 12-footer. His feet never leave the court as Grant makes it easily. 32-20 2:35, CJ jacks up an ill-advised three with over 20 seconds remaining on the shot clock. The team is slow to recover down court and surrenders an easy two. Sidney calls his third timeout of the first half and mercifully benches Leslie. 32-25 0:35, Lazy passing leads to a breakaway dunk from Bryan Narcisse. With under four seconds, State converts an out-of-bounds play as Tracy Smith scores at the buzzer. 34-29 2ND HALF, yay! Starting lineup back on the court. Tracy Smith the worst offender among many parties of setting weak screen after weak screen. The point guard can't get any separation because Smith, others are peeling off their screens too early. The point guards aren't doing the screeners any favors as the refuse to utilize the screen properly. Some stuff happens. Scott Wood hits two big threes to push the lead back to nine, 40-31. 14:41, CJ Leslie re-enters the game. 13:31, CJ misses an easy put-back bucket off a Tracy Smith miss because he tries to tap it in with one hand instead of catching it with two. On the ensuing Clemson possession, he trips over Jennings' feet in the lane and can't contest an Andre Young layup in the lane. 40-37 A flurry of two nice plays, one from Javi and one from Lorenzo Brown, help push State's lead back to 7, 44-37 12:02, Javi tries to buy a charge but his acting job takes him completely out of the play. Scott Wood rotates over to cover Javi's man just inside the arc but leaves Narcisse wide open. Narcisse receives the pass and drains a wide-open 3. 44-40 11:28, A turn of events occur where CJ might've been sparked positively. He makes an aggressive move to the basket, is fouled and makes an off-balance shot. The refs, however, say he was fouled prior to the act of shooting, so instead of two points and a foul shot, State merely retains the ball. On that possession, he takes another ill-advised shot, a contested two from the wing that misses everything. 44-40 9:58, CJ is still firing away, clanging an open 17-footer. Perhaps that's an ok shot if he's playing well, but given the circumstances it's yet another a bad shot. 9:21, the shot that breaks State's will. The Pack play 33 seconds of solid defense, but CJ loses Jennings—again—and with 2 on the shot clock, Jennings hits an open three. State still leads 44-43, but the game is all but over at this point. You could see the fight leave the team after that demoralizing sequence of events. 7:57, Leslie receives the pass in the interior while posted up on the block. Instead of being aggressive, he passes the ball three feet to Tracy Smith who's currently fending off a double team. Tracy does get fouled, however, and makes both attempts, 48-43 7:42, CJ loses sight of Jennings again. While wandering the lane with his head turned, searching for his mark, Demontez Stitt drives right past him to the bucket for a layup. CJ never so much as swats at the ball. 48-45 7:06, a great post move frees up CJ and he has a wide open layup…that he misses. 48-45 6:55, CJ allows Jennings to wander back out around the three-point arc. As Booker flashes through the lane, CJ inexplicably chases him, leaving Jennings with another wide-open 3. Thankfully for Leslie, he misses this attempt. Still 48-45. 6:35, CJ receives a pass from Tracy Smith at the bucket. Instead of going up strong, he pump fakes once and has the ball swatted from his hands. 48-45 6:23, on the resulting Clemson possession, CJ commits the cardinal sin of trying to save the ball on your opponent's end of the court. He tosses it right to Stitt, who promptly converts a layup. Sidney FINALLY pulls the plug on CJ after that. 48-47 5:41, Jerai Grant is fouled and makes the bucket. He hits the free throw and gives Clemson the lead it would never relinquish, 50-48 More bad stuff. 2:52, Javier Gonzalez misses a nice look off an in-bounds play, but instead of hustling back down court, he and the rest of the team jog in back, unaware that Devin Booker has beaten everyone. Young hits him with an easy full-court pass for an easy layup…and that's pretty much where I stopped watching the replay. CJ Leslie finished the game with only 13 minutes logged on the boxscore but they felt like an eternity of bad basketball. Lazy on defense, confused on defense, 0 pts, 2 rebounds, 1 TO and 1 rebound. If Sidney didn't see any reason to pull him before the 11:28 mark in the second half, his fade away jumper early in the shot clock completely outside the flow of the offense should have been the BIG RED SIGN to sit him down for the remainder of the game. Instead, he allowed him to continue on for another 5+ minutes. It speaks to the overall accountability of the players in this program. When he and the team clearly needed it, CJ was not benched. When the players refused to set solid screens time-after-time, they were not benched. Starting point guard Ryan Harrow sat the bench from the 14:41 mark in the second half to the 5:59 mark. Why? What was the reasoning? Sidney was still rotating point guard duties between Harrow, Gonzalez and Lorenzo Brown up until the very end. Was he grasping at straws, or was that his plan all along? This loss—more than any on the schedule to this point—will be the tipping point that ultimately gets Lowe fired. You just don't squander leads THAT big on the road. You don't get beaten THAT badly after being in control for the first 15 minutes of the game. This loss, from the perspective of Lowe's job status, is worse than the Wisconsin loss. A 19-point lead blown here, along with the 17-point lead blown against Miami, is symptomatic of a larger problem than simply "youth.""

http://www.riddickandreynolds.com/2011/01/anatomy-of-a-meltdown/?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+RiddickReynolds+%28Riddick+%26+Reynolds%29

1/26/2011 9:53:24 AM

Let's get this thread locked up.


TWW's final verdict after 252 pages on the subject:


Sidney Lowe not credible.


Our horse, she dead. Let's not beat her no mo'.

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 9:59 AM. Reason : .]

1/26/2011 9:58:13 AM

lowe was wearing an orange tie last night

i just thought, if herb did that, there would be at least 20 morons yelling at him for doing that at clemson

1/26/2011 10:12:50 AM

i can't stand dean smith, that needs to be said, but one thing he used to do when his team looked like a bunch of pussies with men's basketball uniforms on, he'd pull the entire starting 5 and put in ALL scrubs for 2-3 min. it's bad when you have to invoke his ass but he was a good coach so...

its not just this game either or the last one, there were a couple games earlier in the year, if memory serves, where we had massive leads on teams and you could see that our guys, minus Harrow and Wood, thought the game was out of reach and just coasted.

1/26/2011 10:15:22 AM

I heard some people on the radio this morning talking about Gregg Marshall...they said he is basically a psychopath and that Winthrop had to talk with the administration about having people at practice to make sure he didn't physically harm any kids...one guy called him Bobby Knight minus the self control...dunno how much truth there is, but it would make sense that he didn't get interviews at any good schools despite his success

1/26/2011 10:18:45 AM

Quote :

" he'd pull the entire starting 5 and put in ALL scrubs for 2-3 min. it's bad when you have to invoke his ass but he was a good coach so..."

lowe has done this, it's his normal 2nd half substitution pattern. it's why we lose.

1/26/2011 10:23:22 AM

I think Marshall is a good coach, but there's just something suspect about him. He had a lot of success at Winthrop and was never hired by a bigger program. There have been some red flags hanging around him for a while. He also accepted the CofC position a couple years ago and then changed his mind on the way home. There were a lot of "wtf"s down here when that happened and some interesting stories floating around as well.

It sounds dumb to be picky about someone like Gregg Marshall with the way our coaching situation has been over the past 25+ years...but it just doesn't "feel right."

1/26/2011 10:24:20 AM

Quote :

"It sounds dumb to be picky about someone like Gregg Marshall with the way our coaching situation has been over the past 25+ years...but it just doesn't "feel right.""

doesn't sound dumb... it sounds like you want to do due diligence. If we had done due diligence when Herb left, we wouldn't be in this position now.

1/26/2011 10:32:29 AM

damn i'm sad

1/26/2011 10:38:20 AM

in all seriousness, is it too early to start an NC State Decommitment Thread?

1/26/2011 10:47:24 AM

Quote :

"2:52, Javier Gonzalez misses a nice look off an in-bounds play, but instead of hustling back down court, he and the rest of the team jog in back, unaware that Devin Booker has beaten everyone. Young hits him with an easy full-court pass for an easy layup…and that's pretty much where I stopped watching the replay. "

This guy must be drinking some Javi Kool-Aid. The last thing I would call that was a "nice look". It was a rushed shot, and I'm not even sure he had any kind of an angle. Plus he hit the top of the backboard. I agree that CJL destroyed our team during two stretches, but that miss from Javi was anything but a nice look, and the rest of the team was probably late getting back because they were giving Javi the "WTF?" look.

1/26/2011 11:00:52 AM

Goodnight, sweet coach

1/26/2011 11:02:27 AM

justin, i know what you mean, but he puts in the same entitlement minded group he just replaced... i'm talking about the guys names we can't pronounce and kendall smith etc. When the regular rotation of 8-9 guys blows a 17 and 19pt lead... i'd rather have enrico kuofor (or whatever his hardworking busting his ass in practice name is) and kendall smith out there lollerskates'in it up and send a message to the rest of them. I'd rather lose every game with the walkons and get crushed, than have a bunch of half-assed, no learning from mistakes people, out there every game.

It's like: hey look we can destroy Clemson and Miami, see... oh shit, we didn't get back on D

1/26/2011 11:02:31 AM

So... I think we get up by 19 then put our scrubs in... That way we might not score a bunch, but we would only lose by 7. Also, why is nobody complaining about not fouling at the end of the game?

1/26/2011 11:16:23 AM

I rewatched the end of the game last night and saw that shit (turned it off early the first time)... 10 point lead with over a minute left. at least TRY and extend the game and give yourself a chance. not that it was surprising though.

1/26/2011 11:21:05 AM

Quote :

"I've swear the wolfpack nation can have some great fans but some others really surprise me. I thought I joined a great family but the true colors are coming out. "

-ryan harrow

1/26/2011 11:33:41 AM

^ when/where did that come from?

1/26/2011 11:36:07 AM

what the hell is that BS ^^ ?

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 11:36 AM. Reason : ]

1/26/2011 11:36:11 AM

not friends with him on Facebook, but just looked him up and that was his new status

1/26/2011 11:42:46 AM

And he's right. You guys are turning your backs on him and he just got here

1/26/2011 11:46:47 AM

lol. I haven't seen a single person criticize Harrow. most are just criticizing the completely inept coach.

1/26/2011 11:48:59 AM

now he's bitching about not having the freedom like he did in high school

my apathy is turning to anger with these guys

1/26/2011 11:50:17 AM

Shut the fuck up Harrow. Do you realize the shit storm you just started?

1/26/2011 11:50:20 AM

Annnnnnd here we go.....<holds on for the ride>

1/26/2011 11:51:33 AM

you fuckwads better not go posting shit on this kid's wall

[Edited on January 26, 2011 at 11:54 AM. Reason : ^^ idiots like you]

1/26/2011 11:53:48 AM

What'd he say bitching about freedom?

1/26/2011 11:54:25 AM