Anyone want to go into business with me and open a strip club on Hillsborough street?

6/30/2011 1:49:51 AM

You're gonna need to time travel back to the 70s to make that work.

6/30/2011 7:41:31 AM

Probably jumping in here late, but I've seen several points that I feel the need to touch on/disagree with:

Quote :

"5-6 years ago about the only options for living really close to campus was to live in the run down Avent Ferry apartments or to rent a run down house on the Hillsborough side."

Granted, most of the apartments on Avent Ferry/Gorman were (and still are) pretty crappy, but north of Hillsborough if you go more than a block or two from campus the houses are generally in much better shape, and while there are less rentals, they're certainly still available.

Quote :

"I also think that the apartments at Cameron Village will be a slam dunk. This will probably be in the same $1500/mo range as 712 Tucker. This will likely appeal to a somewhat older demographic than Glenwood South. "

Agreed, and with an already healthy rental market at a lower price point in the older apartments to the north, this should move the whole area upmarket without completely driving out those who can't pay $1000+/month, which hopefully will prevent it from turning into an extension of Glenwood South. The one concern I do have with this is the building itself--my God, it's terrible. To tear down two modernist buildings which fit well within the context of the area and replace them with this big ugly thing? And that we might lose 401 Oberlin across the street as well (which fits that lot *perfectly*) to another similar monstrosity? Sigh. There goes the neighborhood--farewell any semblance of period architectural integrity. (Yes, the McDonald's and Harris Teeter don't fit already, but...)

Quote :

"For a single or two bedroom you're looking at $600/850 max if you want to reach an equilibrium based on demographic demand."

I don't think you're familiar how many students would be willing to spend significantly more than that of their parents' money to be on a revitalized part of Hillsborugh, such a short walk to campus, bars, and food, in a nice shiny new building. We're behind the curve here--several such projects have gone up or are going up in Chapel Hill the vicinity of Franklin Street recently, and have been rather successful despite being expensive. Just because many students are poor doesn't mean all of them are. They don't stay in UT for 4 years because there are RA-type staff, the bedrooms are shared, the amenities are lacking, the situation is monitored--basically it is a deluxe dorm. Not remotely the same animal.

Quote :

"Additionally your homes on Bagwell, are clustered in a neighborhood area, not smashed right against campus. Of course your rents would be higher."

Are you familiar with Bagwell Street? It only extends for a block north of campus then ends at the intersection with Everett. While it is part of that neighborhood, to call it "not smashed right against campus" is a stretch when the street ends less than a quarter mile from Hillsborough. Rents may be higher due to the properties being detached single family homes, but proximity to Hillsborough should be a wash.

6/30/2011 9:31:58 AM

Quote :

"The one concern I do have with this is the building itself--my God, it's terrible. To tear down two modernist buildings which fit well within the context of the area and replace them with this big ugly thing? And that we might lose 401 Oberlin across the street as well (which fits that lot *perfectly*) to another similar monstrosity? Sigh. There goes the neighborhood--farewell any semblance of period architectural integrity. (Yes, the McDonald's and Harris Teeter don't fit already, but...)"

I agree that Crescent's design for their project is a terrible pastiche but reportedly its design was essentially dictated by the neighbors. Had the developers done anything but kow tow, the neighborhood would have risen up in opposition.

I disagree however that it is too big. Urban areas like Paris where nothing is taller than 5 floors only work when EVERYTHING is five floors. When 75% of a city's landscape is permanently covered with detached homes at four to ten units per acre, in order to achieve a successful urban environment, you need to maximize the density wherever you can in order to compensate.

IMO the reason 401 Oberlin seems to "fit its lot perfectly" is because it's contextual with the modernist buildings across the street and the post office next door. Once the Crescent apartment building goes up with its shops along the street, beginning Cameron Village's transformation from a 1940s era suburban shopping center into a 21st century urban neighborhood, 401 Oberlin and its berm of concrete, grass, and shrubs is what will seem out of place, rather than the other way around. I agree that it's an attractive building, but it's just not urban enough to be on such a prominent corner.

[Edited on June 30, 2011 at 2:15 PM. Reason : abc]

6/30/2011 2:10:02 PM

Stanhope Village now Valentine Commons.

http://www.facebook.com/valentinecommons

7/15/2011 3:58:55 PM

^ They're setting up a leasing office next to Pita Pit.

7/15/2011 3:59:58 PM

Dear Lord they love exclamation points on that Facebook page. Reminds me of that episode of Seinfeld.

7/15/2011 4:08:44 PM

Time Out, Katmandu, and The Brewery becomes Kerr Drugs:
http://www.newsobserver.com/2011/07/18/1351703/project-pitched-near-ncsu.html

7/18/2011 9:46:05 AM

^great project for that corner. With Valentine commons/village and this, that should really help the area. Could add 1000+ new residents, and spur more changes on that portion of Hillsborough street.

7/18/2011 9:58:33 AM

Time Out will move pretty easy, probably into that building.

7/18/2011 10:14:44 AM

Quote :

"The city may extend street upgrades farther west on Hillsborough Street. A proposed transportation bond includes $1 million for design work on a six-block stretch from Gardner Street to Rosemary Street. "

It needs it so badly.

7/18/2011 10:38:13 AM

I really hope that they bury every single power line on Hillsborough Street east of Gorman. That will go a long way towards uncluttering Hillsborough Street (and unfortunately it will also go a long way towards making the street reconstruction very expensive.) There are some especially nasty powerlines along Hillsborough due to the big power substation being there.

7/18/2011 12:11:19 PM

Is there ever a building proposal in this town that passes without someone complaining about the height of the project. UT is 10 floors, Stanhope/Valentine will be huge, its on the NCSU side of the property and replacing 3 - 4 essentially blighted buildings and the N&O article still states that the NIMBYS are opposing the 3-5 story nature of the project. What a joke these people are.

7/18/2011 12:34:45 PM

where will the emo/metalcore bands go if the Brewery is demolished

7/18/2011 12:43:39 PM

^^ Yeah I get tired of those folks as well. If they don't want to live in a cityscape they can always move to Apex

7/18/2011 12:56:11 PM

That side of Hillsborough Street (Western Hillsborough?) needs SO much work on the roads. With all the revitalization on the other side of the street, the contrast between the two is just that much more apparent. It is absolutely awful. Hopefully the addition of Valentine and Kerr Drugs will draw some attention to improving those roadworks.

7/18/2011 2:01:09 PM

^

Quote :

"The city may extend street upgrades farther west on Hillsborough Street. A proposed transportation bond includes $1 million for design work on a six-block stretch from Gardner Street to Rosemary Street."

7/18/2011 2:02:30 PM

i thought val valentine owned all that land, which confused me when i kept hearing it referred to as stanhope

7/18/2011 6:35:02 PM

Quote :

"Time Out will move pretty easy, probably into that building."

That's what I figured. One quote from the article mentions a component being a 24-hour diner. Considering that Time Out is a 24-hour diner...done and done. Assuming, of course, they find somewhere to move to during construction.

7/18/2011 8:05:09 PM

There was a rumor that Time-Out is going to shut down before the development ever happens, so the 24-hour diner reference may be a work in progress. Time-Out has had an awful time on Hillsborough Street so far.

7/18/2011 8:08:03 PM

Hopefully this Kerr Drug thing ends up happening and can move along like the Stanhope/Valentine complex. If this end of the street keeps getting cleaned up and redeveloped, and some kind of new redevelopment goes through in the BT Mart building beside Sadlacks then the NCSU area of Hillsborough could end up looking pretty nice in the next few years.

7/19/2011 12:38:13 AM

^^ Well it was pretty dumb of them to open at the start of summer vacation imo. They should have aimed it towards the beginning of the school year and then flyered the hell out of the dorms.

7/19/2011 12:42:19 AM

http://www.hillsboroughstreet.org/development/development-sites-projects

good breakdown of all of the projects on hillsborough...i really think the answer for hillsborough, cameron village, and downtown as far as improving the overall experience is dense residential projects. If we could add 2k to hillsborough, 1500 to cameron village, and 4000-5000 in the greater downtown area we would see a vast improvement in livability including movie theaters, retail, drug stores, shops, art, music venues, etc.

7/21/2011 9:32:01 AM

^^ that site says that the university estimates the Belltower redevelopment cost roughly $50 million to develop. That's big - especially for what is only a 3/4 acre lot. For comparison:

Cameron Village project: 282 units, 7 stories, $45 million, 2.6 acres.
425 N Boylan: 250 units, 7 stories, $30 million, 1.77 acres
Stanhope Center Valentine Commons: 900+ "beds", 10 stories, $80-$85 million, ~3 acres

If the university's $50 million estimate is on target, look for something 10 stories or more, with 300+ apartments.

7/21/2011 3:45:05 PM

Maybe it's a space needle. I've got my fingers crossed.

7/21/2011 4:13:49 PM

^^^

Quote :

"•Two-Story Chick-Fil-A Woodburn Rd "

yeeeeaaaah buddy

7/21/2011 4:31:50 PM

I hear La Cantina got torn down today

7/23/2011 3:22:21 PM

keep tearing

7/23/2011 4:40:46 PM

Katmandu still lives.

7/25/2011 2:07:06 PM

they need to rip those shit holes down

7/25/2011 3:59:38 PM

Quote :

"If we could add 2k to hillsborough, 1500 to cameron village, and 4000-5000 in the greater downtown area we would see a vast improvement in livability including movie theaters, retail, drug stores, shops, art, music venues, etc."

What are you saying? Are these numbers people, as in people housed? And why? Why would that result in better retail outlets?

7/25/2011 4:18:39 PM

Because retail goes where people are?

7/25/2011 4:30:29 PM

retail and people is the whole chicken or egg argument. the people don't want to move where there is no retail and the retail doesn't want to set up shop where there are no people.

people are slowly moving in despite the lack of retail. eventually retail will take the plunge and then the whole process will ramp up. however, i imagine this will be over a period of the next 10 years.

more options for places to live would also help but then it's the same argument all over again.

7/26/2011 12:01:50 PM

I don't see too much chicken-and-egg here. I would argue (and have argued earlier in this thread) that there's already pent up demand for new, quality apartments on Hillsborough Street.

People will move to Hillsborough Street because:
1. It's close to NC State
2. It already has more character and retail within walking distance than the alternatives, which are a complex on Gorman Street or Tryon Road for students, and a complex in Cary or North Raleigh for professionals.
3. Because University Park and Cameron Park are some of the most sought-after neighborhoods in the city.

Most of these people who will move to Hillsborough Street will have cars, so they won't mind driving for retail at first, but as more and more people move in, retailers will then try to meet their needs closer to home without requiring a drive.

7/26/2011 2:15:20 PM

Yeah, I suppose for Hillsborough Street there isn't much of a chicken-egg because people will want to be close to campus in general. I was thinking more of a bigger picture/downtown scenario in which case the chicken-egg situation does exist.

7/26/2011 2:53:23 PM

Right now the demand exists because downtown, Cameron village, and hillsborough street are super trendy/desirable. Students, grad students and young professionals would much prefer to live in these areas as opposed to crap cookie cutter housing off tryon road. When I think about my college experience living out that way it makes me sad. Had stanhope village been in existence I would have much preferred to live in that area. Hell, you could walk home drunk from a football game.

We should be able to add 10,000-15000 people to this general area in the next 5-7 years and retail should follow. Big corporations, developers, and builders have specific demographic benchmarks that need to be reached before they will even consider breaking ground. I think chicken-or-egg is pretty accurate but the egg is already hatched and we just need to wait for the chicken to come out, grow, and develop. (/end cheesy metaphor)

[Edited on July 26, 2011 at 3:31 PM. Reason : .]

7/26/2011 3:27:47 PM

The Brewery, Timeout, Farmhouse, Katmandu will be town down this friday.

[link]http://http://www.gogoraleigh.com/2011/07/26/last-call-for-the-brewery-many-memories/[/link]

7/27/2011 9:20:17 PM

would somebody on campus mind snapping a few before and after pics

thanks

7/27/2011 10:08:08 PM

ill try and swing by there tomorrow morning and see what i can do

7/27/2011 10:48:39 PM

hate to break it to you, but Farmhouse was torn down last week

7/28/2011 1:09:44 AM

So did the Hillsborough Time Out location already fail? Or are they moving somewhere else in the area? I know it hadn't been the success the owners were hoping for.

Also--they're knocking down everything from the corner to that little side street next to the bulldozer building, right? (i.e. Pantana Bob's and Capital Comics building)

[Edited on July 28, 2011 at 12:48 PM. Reason : d]

7/28/2011 12:47:18 PM

^I've been following the total failure of Time-Out since they opened at the beginning of Summer 2010. Their huge mistake was opening right before school let out. After that they didn't stand a chance. During the year they had very little exposure and not much in the way of customers. They kept modifying their hours trying to match the up and down of the customer flow, ended up not always being open 24 Hours, and it just went down-hill from there. I'd like to know if they plan to move locations or if they're giving up, haven't asked anyone in the know at this point.

7/28/2011 3:51:40 PM

^ I liked how in an interview when they opened the owner even admitted opening at the end of the school year was shitty timing. If you know that, why open then?!

7/28/2011 3:56:05 PM

^When they announced when they were opening, I sent them a letter saying that historically it was suicide for restaurant openings on Hillsborough St. I got a polite email back saying that they were sure they would have the same "unprecedented reputation" in Raleigh that they have in Chapel Hill, and that they were sure they'd be fine.

7/28/2011 4:04:39 PM

Passed by today and the "open" sign was still on in the window. So, at the very least, they're riding it out to the end.

7/28/2011 8:19:13 PM

Brewery had people standing in line for a show yesterday at 6:30 PM. Think that demo timeline must be a shade off. In the "Brewery Closing" thread in Enterainment, vinylbandit reports that Capital Comics is next on the demo list, building to be empty and ready for demo by Monday.

7/30/2011 5:09:22 PM

The Technician has an article (http://www.technicianonline.com/news/hillsborough-street-ever-changing-1.2608144) about what's going in. Actually I didn't realize this was going to occupy the entire block from Concord to Friendly. This is going to be HUGE.
-Kerr Drug
-A rooftop restaurant (like Top of the Hill)
-University of Phoenix
-Wake Tech
-An 1,100 space parking deck (this is in addition to the 782 parking spaces already being built for Valentine Commons)

Also found this regarding the Valentine Commons parking deck in the minutes of the 6/1/2010 City Council meeting:

Quote :

"Mack A. Paul, IV, Capstone Development Corporation, reports that on October 7, 2009, the Council approved SP-125-07, Stanhope Village Student Housing Center, with a condition that the petitioner pursue a variance from the Board of Adjustment that would allow residential units on the ground level of the structured parking deck instead of office units. The petitioner obtained that variance and is now required by City Code to have the site plan re-approved by City Council; therefore, the petitioner is seeking re-approval of SP-125-07."

Looks like it will be townhomes in front of the parking deck after all.

7/31/2011 11:52:04 AM

Quote :

"Capital Comics is next on the demo list, building to be empty and ready for demo by Monday."

yeah, walked by there yesterday after lunch... they were def clearing out what's left inside the store

7/31/2011 12:00:20 PM

Snapped a few photos of the project underway there before everything is demolished. There were guys cleaning out the Capitol Comics shop about 30 minutes ago and throwing furniture and other large items into a dumpster there on Concord St. Dumpster diving opportunities abound minus the rain we've had.

7/31/2011 12:43:11 PM

Quote :

"^I've been following the total failure of Time-Out since they opened at the beginning of Summer 2010. Their huge mistake was opening right before school let out. After that they didn't stand a chance. During the year they had very little exposure and not much in the way of customers. They kept modifying their hours trying to match the up and down of the customer flow, ended up not always being open 24 Hours, and it just went down-hill from there. I'd like to know if they plan to move locations or if they're giving up, haven't asked anyone in the know at this point."

it's biggest "mistake" though is that the food was never even close to as good or fresh as it is at the Chapel Hill location. most of the time they would only have two sides (the worst mac & cheese ever, green beans or mashed potatoes) instead of the multiple sides they have at Franklin St. I do think Time Out could work in Raleigh, but not in that location, and the food has to get better.

[Edited on July 31, 2011 at 12:59 PM. Reason : ]

7/31/2011 12:58:19 PM