Also if ya want a bit more insight on that 77 hand David....post on here what his vpip/pfr/preflop steal from various positions HUD stats are...makes a gigantic difference in the hand analysis.

6/29/2009 2:11:22 PM

I love Bodog for tournaments and sit & go's. You'll actually see the same players more than once. So if you keep track of their moves or if you have software that does you can get some good info.

As far as the 77's go. The first one you have to push. The 2nd one I'd only make against a guy who has been playing aggressive. He'll basically have to call you no matter what.

6/29/2009 2:20:55 PM

Quote :

"Word on the skreet is that Cake poker is the new shit for cash...haven't tried it yet...but might be giving it a go soon."

Put some money on Cake a few weeks ago to give it a whirl and have seen a higher bb/100 than FTP (only ~5k hand sample), but it is hard to find enough games running. Even with the higher bb/100 I still am making less $/hr bc I can get on enough tables fast enough.

Also a plus - HEM recently added support for importing their HH's but no HUDs yet.

I think I'll still be spending most of my time at FTP but Cake is a nice change of pace and has plenty of fish.

6/29/2009 2:23:34 PM

At what limit did ya have trouble finding games? Are you still doing FR?

If I throw some money on their I doubt i'll play higher than 2/4.

6/29/2009 2:40:01 PM

usually .25/.5 FR, but I like to play 16+ tables. There's usually that many running, but the waiting lists take forever. On Stars and FTP I can get on 16+ tables easily in <5min.

6/29/2009 3:37:37 PM

Quote :

"post on here what his vpip/pfr/preflop steal from various positions HUD stats are"

I never got it setup for tournaments.

6/29/2009 3:43:14 PM

Oh yeh forgot bout that. You really need to...makes hand reading when multi-tabling so easy!

Just filtered 4/180 results w/ the legend himself....brag imo :

6/29/2009 4:11:26 PM

Quote :

"usually .25/.5 FR, but I like to play 16+ tables. There's usually that many running, but the waiting lists take forever. On Stars and FTP I can get on 16+ tables easily in <5min."

I can't imagine how this is fun.

6/29/2009 4:21:53 PM

how many screens do you use?

6/29/2009 4:25:17 PM

^^ i really want to start playing online b/c i think it'd help me improve a lot, but for that reason it sounds like it turns into such a grind/addiction i don't know if it'd be worth it.

also i'm poor.

6/29/2009 5:03:22 PM

Full Tilt Poker Game #13087213771: The Sunday Mulligan (93702308), Table 27 - 10/20 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:08:54 ET - 2009/06/28
Seat 2: AsMetzmagnyAs (2,990)
Seat 3: pareshjain (2,970)
Seat 4: Ships (2,915)
Seat 5: Dr Fill Good (2,970)
Seat 6: 1plus1equals3 (2,980)
Seat 7: Botnuskahn (2,975)
Seat 8: derTopf (3,170)
Seat 9: david0603 (3,030)
1plus1equals3 posts the small blind of 10
Botnuskahn posts the big blind of 20
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to david0603 [Kd Kc]
derTopf folds
david0603 raises to 60
AsMetzmagnyAs calls 60
pareshjain folds
Ships calls 60
Dr Fill Good folds
1plus1equals3 folds
Botnuskahn calls 40
*** FLOP *** [2c 8h 6c]
Botnuskahn checks
david0603 bets 150
AsMetzmagnyAs calls 150
Ships has 15 seconds left to act
Ships raises to 400
Botnuskahn folds
david0603 has 15 seconds left to act
david0603 folds
AsMetzmagnyAs folds
Uncalled bet of 250 returned to Ships
Ships mucks
Ships wins the pot (700)
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 700 | Rake 0
Board: [2c 8h 6c]
Seat 2: AsMetzmagnyAs folded on the Flop
Seat 3: pareshjain didn't bet (folded)
Seat 4: Ships collected (700), mucked
Seat 5: Dr Fill Good (button) didn't bet (folded)
Seat 6: 1plus1equals3 (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: Botnuskahn (big blind) folded on the Flop
Seat 8: derTopf didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: david0603 folded on the Flop

What are you putting him on? Set? AA?

6/29/2009 7:06:03 PM

flat reval imo

6/29/2009 8:27:11 PM

I want to go back to a hand that was posted earlier. I just don't get how this is "1000% standard..."

when I make it this deep in a tournament, the last thing I want is my tournament to be decided by a coinflip (unless I've got 8 BB's or less, in which case I'll gladly take a coinflip). He has roughly 14 BB's which is plenty of time in my opinion. For me, 77 is a blind steal hand in mid to late position with no action in front. With a 6X BB raise in front of me (which is roughly 1/3 of said villain's stack), I'm putting him on a range of 77-JJ, maybe even AK or AQ. I don't see how you could put him on any sort of hand that gives you a good reason to shove with 77. He's obviously going to call with the pot odds he's getting. In my opinion, a coinflip is the absolute best case scenario you're facing. Now obviously I was wrong on what hand he had, but he was clearly an idiot anyways so it doesn't matter.

Full Tilt Poker Game #12815108536: $50,000 Guarantee (93213732), Table 126 - 1200/2400 Ante 300 - No Limit Hold'em - 19:31:45 ET - 2009/06/14
Seat 1: Exitonly (72,003)
Seat 2: Ton Locsta (112,470)
Seat 4: Verand2 (52,960)
Seat 5: govshark2 (73,582)
Seat 6: Godfatti (76,916)
Seat 7: david0603 (35,874)
Seat 8: shipitobv (78,557)
Seat 9: talv (102,628)
Exitonly antes 300
Ton Locsta antes 300
Verand2 antes 300
govshark2 antes 300
Godfatti antes 300
david0603 antes 300
shipitobv antes 300
talv antes 300
Godfatti posts the small blind of 1,200
david0603 posts the big blind of 2,400
The button is in seat #5
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to david0603 [7c 7s]
shipitobv folds
talv folds
Exitonly has 15 seconds left to act
Exitonly folds
Ton Locsta folds
Verand2 raises to 15,600
govshark2 folds
Godfatti folds
david0603 raises to 35,574, and is all in
Verand2 has 15 seconds left to act
Granis_SWE sits down
Granis_SWE adds 42,765
Verand2 calls 19,974
david0603 shows [7c 7s]
Verand2 shows [Ah 7h]
*** FLOP *** [6c Kh As]
*** TURN *** [6c Kh As] [4c]
*** RIVER *** [6c Kh As 4c] [Tc]
david0603 shows a pair of Sevens
Verand2 shows a pair of Aces
Verand2 wins the pot (74,748) with a pair of Aces
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 74,748 | Rake 0
Board: [6c Kh As 4c Tc]
Seat 1: Exitonly folded before the Flop
Seat 2: Ton Locsta folded before the Flop
Seat 4: Verand2 showed [Ah 7h] and won (74,748) with a pair of Aces
Seat 5: govshark2 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 6: Godfatti (small blind) folded before the Flop
Seat 7: david0603 (big blind) showed [7c 7s] and lost with a pair of Sevens
Seat 8: shipitobv folded before the Flop
Seat 9: talv folded before the Flop

6/29/2009 11:01:02 PM

when determining when to push

counting stack/bb is not optimal.

you're neglecting the ante and sb

i thought everyone went by the m factor

or they did as of 5 years ago

6/29/2009 11:04:24 PM

I think Verand has a little fold equity there. I also think he made such a large raise so that he priced himself in. Its hard to judge this hand without being at the table and seeing both players behavior.

6/29/2009 11:15:52 PM

I think it's a judgment call. Even with an "M" of around 5-6 it will depend on your read of the raiser. He has a nice enough stack to not be desperate and reraise all in. You have little resteal value there. If that raise comes in EP, I'd strongly consider folding. There's a few other factors like how close to the money you are and the average chip stack to consider as well. Short answer, I don't think there's a wrong move there...except calling.

6/29/2009 11:44:30 PM

Quote :

"Now obviously I was wrong on what hand he had, but he was clearly an idiot anyways so it doesn't matter. "

Actually this is one of the determining factors in deciding whether or not to push or fold. Thats why above I was asking about the villains HUD stats. W/o knowing anything bout his vpip/pfr/att to steal this could be a clear fold w/ JJ...or a snap ship w/ 77.

Knowing what we know after seeing his hand we can deduce a few things w/o having his HUDs...so i'm going to assume for the sake of argument that if we were using HUD at the time we could have determined that this guy was a clown. From experience villains making this move are perhaps running 25/25/att to steal < 60%.

So lets assume he is opening maybe 30-40% of his range here for arguments sake. 30-40% is a huge range, our villain w/ the bet sizing likely is aware that he is pricing himself in (although that may not be the case lets just assume he will be calling 100% of the time to a small 3b by David). Knowing that I think we can reduce his opening range b/c of his gross bet sizing to maybe 25-30%.

Using 25-30% opening range frequency if we plug into PokerStove (range equity calculator) we get the following equity in our 77 hand based on a 25-30% opening range for this villain:

At 25%, it's a marginally +ev play -
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 50.786% 50.37% 00.41% 1650877824 13553400.00 { 77 }
Hand 1: 49.214% 48.80% 00.41% 1599365232 13553400.00 { 66+, A2s+, K6s+, Q8s+, J8s+, T8s+, A7o+, K9o+, QTo+, JTo }

At 30%, it's a bit more +ev -
equity win tie pots won pots tied
Hand 0: 52.325% 51.93% 00.40% 2043209136 15707772.00 { 77 }
Hand 1: 47.675% 47.28% 00.40% 1860249912 15707772.00 { 55+, A2s+, K5s+, Q7s+, J8s+, T8s+, 98s, A7o+, A5o, K9o+, Q9o+, J9o+, T9o }

Seeing that I suppose it depends on a few things whether or not you would choose to shove.
1) Do you feel that you have enough of an edge on the remaining field to the point where making a marginal move now would actually be in a way close to =ev and only slightly +Cev now? Meaning you think you can find a better spot.
2) Are you feeling ballsy?

I shove all day errrry day.

[Edited on June 30, 2009 at 11:46 AM. Reason : .]

[Edited on June 30, 2009 at 11:47 AM. Reason : formating]

6/30/2009 11:45:42 AM

Quote :

"Oh yeah forgot bout that. You really need to...makes hand reading when multi-tabling so easy!"

I haven't used PT or Hub in several years and when I did it was just for cash games.

Can you help me set it up? What do I need to download? Can I data mine?

6/30/2009 12:18:39 PM

Quote :

"What are you putting him on? Set? AA?"

Set

6/30/2009 12:19:18 PM

http://www.pokertracker.com/

I use Pokertracker (PT3) , a lot of people swear by Holdem Manager (HEM). I've used both, and I think the HEM has a bit easier interface...and maybe a few features that PT3 doesn't have. That being said...I started w/ PT3 and just couldn't get used to the HEM interface. I think both are around the same price -- like 80 bucks or so.

I'll be glad to help ya out setting it up. I'm prolly up 15k or so this year thanks to the software....if your a serious player...theres rly no excuse not to get it.

6/30/2009 12:32:11 PM

Where do you play?

6/30/2009 12:37:31 PM

Stars MTT OPR
http://officialpokerrankings.com/pokerstars/slowcheetah1/poker/results/5D163066AC024CBCB286DBD2C51D49FB.html?t=2

FTP MTT OPR
is dustos_busto but OPR and FTP are fueding right now.

6/30/2009 12:46:53 PM

So the roi for the 180 tournaments is far greater than stts?

6/30/2009 1:09:00 PM

Quote :

"how many screens do you use?"

I have a 24in and a 22in but I only use 1 for poker. I just stack all of my tables and use a script to move the tables off to the side if they need more attention. When you stack them, you reduce the amount of eye and mouse movement and can make your actions more quickly. Since most the time I'm folding preflop anyway, I don't even have to move the mouse to keep clicking fold.

6/30/2009 1:13:53 PM

Yezzir....sickos are making 120% or so. I'm like 80-90%. Good monies to be made.

6/30/2009 1:14:36 PM

Why is that? Just better blind structure?

6/30/2009 1:19:03 PM

They are super top heavy.

1st in a $4/180 man is 216
in a $11 $540
in a $22 $1080

6/30/2009 1:26:03 PM

I don't see how you are getting 80-90% looking at the link you posted.

6/30/2009 1:32:28 PM

Thats MTTs wholeistically.

My sharkscopes for SNG MTTs (i.e. 180s) for the last 12 monthes is:









[Edited on June 30, 2009 at 1:47 PM. Reason : /]

6/30/2009 1:43:57 PM

What are the filters?

6/30/2009 1:47:34 PM

Top is total for 12 months.

Then 4/180s

Then 12

Then 22

All filtered to the last 12 months.

6/30/2009 1:50:16 PM

Profit seems to be < 15K.

Oh, and wtf is sharkscope?

[Edited on June 30, 2009 at 2:00 PM. Reason : ]

6/30/2009 1:59:07 PM

Yeh that is only on my Stars acct. lol. SS is a tracker of SNGs...and more recently MTTs.

I also crush cash (can be verified at pokertableratings.com).
dustos_busto FTP
slowcheetah1 Stars

And coach/stake

6/30/2009 2:08:26 PM

crush cash?

6/30/2009 2:12:25 PM

si

6/30/2009 2:20:52 PM

I count 1337 games (elite!!!) up there. About how long do those games take on average?

6/30/2009 2:31:21 PM

Top is total for 12 months.

only w/e the top is

but like 3.5hrs

6/30/2009 2:34:07 PM

Come again?

6/30/2009 2:42:16 PM

The top level is everything.

The bottom 3 are sub categories...representing each level of the 180s.....not separate...but all a part of the top...does that make sense?

[Edited on June 30, 2009 at 2:44 PM. Reason : .]

6/30/2009 2:44:02 PM

So you are making $5 / game and the games avg 3.5 hrs each?

6/30/2009 3:02:03 PM

Eh, I was doing the math myself as well. $1.43hr. But I'm going to assume for his sake he is playing multiples at once. If he is tabling cash games while the tourneys are going, then you could call the tourney winnings "overtime" pay.

6/30/2009 3:03:49 PM

Quote :

"IN BETWEEN JOBS"

6/30/2009 3:06:25 PM

3.5 ftw

10-24 tabling

not 1 tabling bc im not retarded

6/30/2009 3:06:27 PM

That what I had assumed but when I looked at the link there were a bunch of days you played <10 tournaments.

6/30/2009 3:18:09 PM

So being at the world series got me interested in trying MTT's again. I started with some real small buy-ins cause i knew id be rusty.

Pretty good results but for some reason I'm just not good enough to beat them.

I entered five events and didn't even cash in two of them.

A small $2 - 170 man I finished 2nd after we got all in with my top pair vs his bottom two on the flop, ugh...(+$50)

$6 tourney, 700 players I took 8th after i came over the top allin preflop with KK and got called by 10-10.. .of course he flops the set and I'm out instead of being chip leader... ($+85)

$6 tourney, 750 players i scorunge my way into the bubble and then make 3 consecutive huge allin calls in a matter of 20 minutes and i'm right each time.... work my way til i have 60% of the chips with 3 remaining before i donk a few off and then lose two huge all-in preflop races.... 3rd for $354...

If I can't beat these guys I just feel like I'll get abused in $20's and $50's... so frustrating i feel like I'm close

7/1/2009 1:18:31 AM

I am surprised you are being so results oriented. If you had your money in with the best hand then you technically did win. Basing whether or not you move up on whether or not a hand you had an 80% chance of winning didn't pan out is kinda silly.

7/1/2009 9:30:02 AM

Eh, I'm not upset with the way I played the kk hand more upset with not closing out the one I finished third. If you get allin with 80% favorite too many times in a tourney you will bust eventually, gotta build a big stack.

Third place finish was 355 and first was about 900. Someday donking off a lead like that will cost you 100 grand. I don't get it because I've trained a lot at heads up and sngs but when I get to final tables I'm still prone to mistakes sometimes. I'm defintely used to smaller stacks and I think I'm being a bit overaggressive with the deep stacks in play. You won't be much of an ±ev mtt player if you can't finish when you get the opportunity

7/1/2009 11:28:30 AM

I hate playing with idiots. I just can't believe how bad people can be. I mean you're really going to call off your whole stack 3 way with pocket 9's??????????

Full Tilt Poker Game #13190065672: $5 + $0.50 Sit & Go (97792621), Table 3 - 20/40 - No Limit Hold'em - 1:49:30 ET - 2009/07/04
?Seat 1: HoldMePlease (4,650), is sitting out
?Seat 2: ringoviper (1,280)
?Seat 3: numa21 (4,025)
?Seat 4: nikedunklowpro (3,375)
?Seat 5: J45VIIG (1,335)
?Seat 6: pictureman32 (1,305)
?Seat 7: devinmcd11 (1,440)
?Seat 8: redmondw (740)
?Seat 9: oSNAKEo (3,755)
?nikedunklowpro posts the small blind of 20
?J45VIIG posts the big blind of 40
?The button is in seat #3
?*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to nikedunklowpro [Kd Ks]
?pictureman32 folds
?devinmcd11 raises to 120
?redmondw has 15 seconds left to act
?redmondw folds
?oSNAKEo folds
?HoldMePlease folds
?ringoviper folds
?numa21 calls 120
?nikedunklowpro has 15 seconds left to act
?nikedunklowpro raises to 400
?J45VIIG has 15 seconds left to act
?J45VIIG calls 360
?devinmcd11 raises to 1,440, and is all in
?numa21 folds
?nikedunklowpro raises to 3,375, and is all in
?J45VIIG calls 935, and is all in
?nikedunklowpro shows [Kd Ks]
?J45VIIG shows [9h 9c]
?devinmcd11 shows [Ad Kh]
?Uncalled bet of 1,935 returned to nikedunklowpro
?*** FLOP *** [6c Jc 8c]
?*** TURN *** [6c Jc 8c] [3c]
?*** RIVER *** [6c Jc 8c 3c] [8h]
?nikedunklowpro shows two pair, Kings and Eights
?devinmcd11 shows a pair of Eights
?nikedunklowpro wins the side pot (210) with two pair, Kings and Eights
?J45VIIG shows a flush, Jack high
?J45VIIG wins the main pot (4,125) with a flush, Jack high
?*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 4,335 Main pot 4,125. Side pot 210. | Rake 0
Board: [6c Jc 8c 3c 8h]
Seat 1: HoldMePlease didn't bet (folded)
Seat 2: ringoviper didn't bet (folded)
Seat 3: numa21 (button) folded before the Flop
Seat 4: nikedunklowpro (small blind) showed [Kd Ks] and won (210) with two pair, Kings and Eights
Seat 5: J45VIIG (big blind) showed [9h 9c] and won (4,125) with a flush, Jack high
Seat 6: pictureman32 didn't bet (folded)
Seat 7: devinmcd11 showed [Ad Kh] and lost with a pair of Eights
Seat 8: redmondw didn't bet (folded)
Seat 9: oSNAKEo didn't bet (folded)

7/4/2009 1:57:15 AM

I love playing with those people.

7/4/2009 2:04:21 PM

You would think you could come out ahead in the long run, but it just DOES NOT happen...I literally just bubbled about 4 or 5 tournies in a row. I might pull a few hands out just to show you how bad it gets

7/4/2009 2:08:31 PM