I believe the word you were looking for was "rebutting"




anyway, you know who we should hire? Someone who knows that the only way to turn a program around in under 5 years is by hiring tutors, inviting agents into the program, uh, lets see, boosters who pay for hooker-abortions and bottle service nights at the club, and someone who pays players for big hits on Chris Rix.



Or....we can just be fucking patient and let TOB do exactly what he did at BC and turn this program into a perennial 9-10 win team and go from there.



[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 6:55 PM. Reason : I hate you guys.]

9/23/2011 6:46:54 PM

well there it is...

not credible as of now

let them/us (cause im included) have fun speculating at a replacement coach because there is NOTHING fun to talk about what is going on with the football program as of right now

9/23/2011 6:58:05 PM

what would internet message boards be like if everyone was completely happy with everything?

non-existent?

9/23/2011 7:01:19 PM

I do not doubt O'Brien is a standup guy and a decent coach, but lets face it this day in age the high talent big name guys wanna goto a school with a little more flash to it than what we can provide right now. There is a reason so many programs are moving to coaches who are younger and have more fire and emotion in them. That is who younger guys want to play for. It is becoming obvious we are getting lapped when it comes to talent which is going to trump good coaching most days of the week.

9/23/2011 7:10:34 PM

i thought about that... maybe he is just too disciplined and too 'by the book'

9/23/2011 8:47:12 PM

Quote :

"Or....we can just be fucking patient and let TOB do exactly what he did at BC and turn this program into a perennial 9-10 win team and go from there."

O'Brien never won 10 games at BC. Look man a lot of us liked him getting hired and I still like TOB but he is not going anywhere with Archer/Bible. He's 27-27 at State regardless of injury excuses and with the 3rd best QB the school has seen for 3 years. His strength is supposed to be offensive line. Well we have one injury there (Wallace) but several highly recruited guys (Mattes, Crisp) and yet we still are awful there. I mean at best we are looking at 6-6 this year now.....this is turning into Lowe v2 but TOB isn't an alum so it won't be nearly as hard for people to realize he's on the way out.

9/23/2011 8:57:07 PM

Mike Leach....do it

9/23/2011 9:00:51 PM

was anyone actually expecting 6-6 or better this season?

I mean, I'd take 6-6 this season.

2002. 11-3**
2003. 8-5**
2004. 5-6
2005. 7-5**
2006. 3-9

2007. 5-7
2008. 6-7*
2009. 5-7
2010. 9-4**
2011. ?-?

*Bowl loss
**Bowl win


We went from a serious decline from our Gator Bowl high-water mark, to stabilizing with TOB. Just give the guy a chance. He inherited a 3 win team. If in the next two seasons we see a steep decline from our 9 win season, then fine, get rid of him, but you can't seriously be advocating for a change right now.



\/ I'm with you, I thought this would be a building year and that next season would be a better barometer of where this program is headed.

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 9:25 PM. Reason : ]

9/23/2011 9:13:42 PM

apparently some were. my money has been on next year since the end of last season. I didn't think we'd be this bad though. I expected a slow start from the offense, but not the defense. I understand the injuries on the line, but that doesn't explain the secondary being that shitty.

9/23/2011 9:21:04 PM

heard of the radio today down here "wow, if Tom O'Brien knew then what he knows now, how much do you want to bet he would have chosen a different option and kept Russell Wilson around!"

9/23/2011 9:21:07 PM

i thought 2012 was our next chance at winning the ACC after we blew it last season but I also thought we could get to 7 or 8 wins because of how much of a joke our schedule was

far be it from me to expect us to beat wake fucking forest on the road one of these years

9/23/2011 9:27:45 PM

was it 2008 when the team turned it around the second half of the season? I don't think that's out of the realm of possibilities this year. RAWWWR RAWWRR RAWWRRGARBBLE, THAT WAS RUSTY WILSON!!! Really doe, for as bad as we looked last night, I still think this defense can be serviceable once healthy, and that if we get Moose back we can have some semblance of a run game. Glennon is doing about as well as you can expect him to do, and hopefully his mistakes will decline once he and the receivers get acclimated to one another in game speed. You'd always like to see Glennon have more time, but I think (hope) that when he and the receivers get on the same page, we'll start to see the ball come out quicker after the snap. But, whatever, flame on.

9/23/2011 9:32:23 PM

i've been in TOB's corner up until now, but last night was likely the end of the line for him. personally, i have moved from being a zealous advocate of his to being willing to accept that it might be time to go in a different direction.

looking at the lay of the land in college football, if we continue on this slide, we had best make a move. our only serious competition for in-state talent is about to land on probation and simultaneously about to attempt to fill their HC position, we appear to be one only three stable major conferences out there, and we have the resources in terms of support and facilities.

now might be the right time to try another leader.

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 9:42 PM. Reason : .]

9/23/2011 9:41:34 PM

lack of a good running back isn't why our run game sucks at all. lack of an oline isn't even the whole story. look at the damn plays we run...Chris johnson could be back there.

We were able to run the ball a little in previous years because defensive ends had to give srious respect to russell's ability.

9/23/2011 9:43:52 PM

now would probably be the worst time to try another leader, in my opinion. If UNC is going to have another coach, I would think offering a recruit stability would be a better alternative to the likely rocky coaching tenure the next few coaches will have at UNC.

anyway, according to wikipedia, Dick Sheridan, Mike O'Cain, and Chuck Amato all coached at NC State for 7 years. That adds nothing to the discussion, but it's an interesting note.

9/23/2011 9:46:45 PM

I'm a pretty level-headed fan and I still don't think TOB made the "wrong" decision in this case, but Russell Wilson does make a difference with our offensive problems. The E Man sucks, but he isn't completely off base in his comment two posts up. A mobile QB can hide a lot of OL deficiencies. It's not Glennon's fault that his OL sucks, of course, but a different skillset with those problems helps.

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 9:55 PM. Reason : ^ and we did have a very good year last year given our historical context]

9/23/2011 9:55:13 PM

why do i suck

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 9:56 PM. Reason : i just call it like it is]

9/23/2011 9:56:24 PM

^^^^ we did average 4.2 ypc v. Wake.

^^^good point regarding recruiting stability and a possible recruiting bump, but should we lose him to firing or retirement 1 to 3 years after that, it would likely be worse. it's pretty much a wash.

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 9:58 PM. Reason : .]

9/23/2011 9:57:52 PM

any chance we can bump the ECU game thread from last year? I have a strong suspicion that the people who wanted him fired after that game are the same people who need to pipe down right now and let the season play out.

I mean, don't bump it, but you get my point

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 10:02 PM. Reason : ]

9/23/2011 10:01:25 PM

that was a shitty loss. vt and maryland were the only games we lost that weren't terrible losses.

9/23/2011 10:02:52 PM

I'd rather not. Will just inspire trolling... but I think this is a bit different situation too, considering we beat teams like UCF, Cincy, GT and BC at that time.

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 10:04 PM. Reason : i don't think we had any "horrible" losses. like it or not ECU was an OK team last year]

9/23/2011 10:03:27 PM

We lost to ECU in OT. We didn't get killed by 30.

And I was TOB's biggest fan before Cincy.....most people can see the writing now.

9/23/2011 10:05:22 PM

You guys just have a different set of expectations than most people if losing to ECU last year was ok.

Losing to Clemson wasn't horrible unless you look at how we lost and why we lost.

9/23/2011 10:08:31 PM

Quote :

"but I think this is a bit different situation too, considering we beat teams like UCF, Cincy, GT and BC at that time."

That's a part of the point. We had a good season last year, and people were still asking for TOB to be fired because of one loss. We're obviously not as good as we were last year, but the point is that our fans are fickle and emotional and think the ship is sinking even though it isn't. Maybe this season is salvaged and we squeek out 6 wins, maybe we don't, but this season is not a fair assessment of what O'Brien has done so far while here at NC State. Next year might be, but we'll just have to wait and see.

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 10:16 PM. Reason : ]

9/23/2011 10:14:30 PM

Most of our fans are fickle yes, but 4 games you can clearly tell our guys are not motivated. I'd like to consider myself pretty level headed and fair when it comes to coaches, TOB is done.

I mean are you watching these games?

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 10:17 PM. Reason : We're 0-4 ATS and haven't played even what I would call a "decent" game yet]

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 10:21 PM. Reason : I would say the only chance TOB could return if he fires Archer & Bible]

9/23/2011 10:17:07 PM

Quote :

"but this season is not a fair assessment of what O'Brien has done so far while here at NC State."

right now last year is looking like the outlier, not the 5-7/6-6 type season we're headed for

9/23/2011 10:27:30 PM

Quote :

"Most of our fans are fickle yes, but 4 games you can clearly tell our guys are not motivated. I'd like to consider myself pretty level headed and fair when it comes to coaches, TOB is done."

in 2008, we were 2-2 after four games, and after starting out 2-6, we went to a bowl, and developed one of the best QB's in school history. Just let the season play out, this team still needs to figure each other out.

Quote :

"right now last year is looking like the outlier, not the 5-7/6-6 type season we're headed for"

maybe you're right, but looking at his coaching record at BC, i wouldn't bet on it. Just give him time to turn the corner (and for what its worth, I don't think he needs that much time to turn the corner).

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 10:46 PM. Reason : ]

9/23/2011 10:44:26 PM

Quote :

"CHAMPIONS IN THE COMMUNITY"

9/23/2011 10:49:55 PM

dog walk of champions

9/23/2011 10:51:07 PM

Quote :

"I'd like to consider myself pretty level headed and fair when it comes to coaches"

lol

to be fair though, you have been one of the few fans trying to keep things rational this time around.

9/23/2011 11:00:11 PM

Just like Sidney Lowe in year five, people can't see that this isn't working out.

Sorry people don't want to accept it. It sucks I know.

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 11:07 PM. Reason : Being honest is level-headed]

[Edited on September 23, 2011 at 11:08 PM. Reason : Least we're good at volleyball now 13-1! Wow! ]

9/23/2011 11:00:59 PM

Quote :

"Least we're good at volleyball now 13-1! Wow!"

Holy shit. i think that's more wins than they compiled in the 5 years I was in school

9/24/2011 1:11:41 AM

how long til someone buys this

http://www.firetomobrien.com/

9/24/2011 1:22:18 AM

internet message boards are hilarious

9/24/2011 2:00:19 AM

you people

9/24/2011 2:12:33 AM

Quote :

"heard of the radio today down here "wow, if Tom O'Brien knew then what he knows now, how much do you want to bet he would have chosen a different option and kept Russell Wilson around!" "

9/24/2011 3:57:14 AM

Would Russell play corner, linebacker, or defensive line?

9/24/2011 7:22:18 AM

He should've kept Nate Irving.

9/24/2011 7:53:07 AM

time to "get a feel for each other" isn't going to help this team, nor is it developing for for an acc championship run next year. archer's defense has always given up a shitload of points, and it's doing the same things this year that have led to big ugly losses in the past: no tackling, horrible on third down, and leaving receivers so wide open the only hope of a stop is for the qb to miss the throw or the receiver to drop the ball. it played better last year, and until the ecu game when we gave up 21 points in the first quarter, i thought maybe tob had been right and we just needed to get healthy.

i love a lot about what he's done since he's been here. the offense has been mostly good, and i'm always confident that when a flag is thrown it's on the other team. but the story of every single game since 2008 has essentially been if we don't score every possession, we lose because the defense won't get a single fucking stop. it's always going to be that way til tob changes the defense or or debbie changes the coach. and it's clear tob has never questioned whether archer is the right guy to lead the defense, so we have to hope that debbie fires him and brings her own coach in.

9/24/2011 8:03:12 AM

Quote :

"That's a part of the point. We had a good season last year, and people were still asking for TOB to be fired because of one loss. We're obviously not as good as we were last year, but the point is that our fans are fickle and emotional and think the ship is sinking even though it isn't."

This. I can seriously not believe that people are calling for TOB's head after last season. This just proves that nothing short of national championships will ever be good enough for the instant-gratification fan base. This is the same crowd that drove Herb out of town b/c they couldn't be happy going to the NCAA tourney consistently for the first time in fuck forever. If we'd gone 10-3 last year, the same people wouldn't be able to find happiness in our success, they'd just be bitching about how we should have been 11-2 b/c of some dumb play in one game, and it's all TOB's fault so we should fire him.

Furthermore, if after last season you looked at our upcoming team for THIS year, and thought this would be anything but a rebuilding year then you're delusional and football retarded. This was never going to be a 9-4 year.

[Edited on September 24, 2011 at 8:04 AM. Reason : n't]

9/24/2011 8:03:36 AM

^i disagree. the o-line is all juniors and seniors. we have a great rb. the defense was to be returning 8 starters. we have a very talented qb. my only question coming into the season was the inexperienced receiving corps. there was no reason not to expect 7-8 wins this year. but after the wake game it's obvious last year was the exception to the rule. the shitty 5-7 seasons are the norm.

9/24/2011 8:09:11 AM

2007. 5-7
2008. 6-7*
2009. 5-7
2010. 9-4**
2011. ?-?

5-7 is the norm? The only 5-7 season I credit TOB for is 2007.

I refuse to credit TOB for a 5-7 2009, a year where we had half the team out injured. With the exception of 2009 I see an upward trend in the wins column.

So consistent progress and improvement is bad and we should fire our coach because of it. Gotcha.

9/24/2011 8:20:10 AM

what about the consistency in the loss column? and the fact that the majority of those losses in the three 7 loss seasons are blowout losses? much like the blowout loss at cincinnati and the inevitable blowout losses to clemson, fsu, maryland, and georgia tech this year? and you didn't address the fact that we're shit this year despite the experienced o-line and defense. but we're decimated by injuries this year again, so the shitty play isn't tob's fault again. but if you're not going to hold the coach accountable when the players who fill in for injured players aren't prepared to play, there's no point in arguing with you.

[Edited on September 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM. Reason : ]

[Edited on September 24, 2011 at 8:28 AM. Reason : ]

9/24/2011 8:28:03 AM

injuries suck, but do you want to be here 3-4 more years from now saying the same thing. injuries are a part of the game you have to plan for it.

UNC lost 12 guys on D last year and still managed to stop people, 5 years in its next man up. I don't know if its the type of athlete or the way there are being developed.

If the season continues to go down hill something has to change.

9/24/2011 10:41:36 AM

maybe if he could at least recruit decently it woul be a good idea to give
him a few more years. but that's obviously not the case.

Jesus Christ, i can believe people are using last season as a counter argument. We won 9 games last year because of RW and NI

[Edited on September 24, 2011 at 11:39 AM. Reason : ]

9/24/2011 11:37:46 AM

Everyone wants to coach at NC State

9/24/2011 2:12:15 PM

god damn people. this is ncstate football. this is not georgia tech or virginia tech, yes you DO have high standards considering how monumentally shitty this program has been over its entire existance. (incoming statement about how i shouldn't care and statistics like this shouldn't matter )

considering our talent, and recruiting we were lucky to have russell wilson to begin with and even have ONE winning season in the last 3 years WITH HIM.

obrien is making good decisions here, we've just had 0 luck recruiting at positions other than the qb honestly. if he had optioned to 'allow wilson' to come back glennon could have transfered as well as wilson leaving and had NO QUARTERBACK. (somebody chime in and tout brosius )

9/24/2011 2:33:18 PM

btw, 2nd half of the season when we have 80% of these injuries back, we're gonna have a totally different football team.

mike archer needs to go. not obrien. we need spaziani to replace archer. not a totally new staff and 5 more years rebuilding.

[Edited on September 24, 2011 at 2:34 PM. Reason : .]

9/24/2011 2:34:02 PM

and someone who can actually recruit

9/24/2011 2:39:52 PM

As long as we beat UNC again TOB is good in my book

9/24/2011 4:39:24 PM