Quote :

"Despite America being so racist in the 1950s, black families actually did better then. "

just....stop.

3/22/2016 10:36:45 AM

actually, during slavery, the tax rates for blacks were zero. They were much better off...

3/22/2016 10:53:38 AM

^^

Wait... Hold the fuck up. What he's saying is not completely untrue. Its just our military only version of history that is taught in public school, that makes people think like that.

Here is one example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wall_Street_(Durham,_North_Carolina)

Quote :

"However, the 1960s urban renewal removed much of Hayti and Durham’s Black Wall Street."

This 'urban renewal' project basically consisted of bulldozing the black business (led to the decline of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Hospital_(Durham,_NC)) and replaced these places with what you see today on Fayeteville st (the 'ghetto') and... Highway 147

[Edited on March 22, 2016 at 11:00 AM. Reason : ]

3/22/2016 10:56:56 AM

LOL. The white man let blacks have a glimpse of success before taking it away. Yeah, they were so much better off.

3/22/2016 11:09:39 AM

All I'm saying is that Durham was not ghetto until they bulldozed the center of african american economics, took away the hospital and the cia inserted a bunch of crack into the population. Look at how shitty that exact area of Durham is today.

3/22/2016 11:13:52 AM

There are a number of articles floating around a similar situation in Syracuse. The city essentially bulldozed an entire black neighborhood to build a freeway.

Also "personal responsibility" is fine to discuss if we lived in a vacuum. Unfortunately we live in a world where ones actions are treated differently depending on who they are. A white college student caught with cocaine is treated different than a black inner city kid caught with a joint. Both are held personally responsible for their actions but I can guarantee their treatment and punishment are widely different. We can talk about personal responsibility all day but until everyone is held responsible in a similar way it doesn't do much to explain someones situation.

Also also, JCE claims the USA was racist in the 1950's and presumably got more racist as you went back in time.. A large part of the population of the US was an adult or growing up in the 50's and were having children and instilling their values on those children. This means a huge chunk of the population was alive during this "more racist time" and contributing to racism as well as having kids and providing them with racist mentalities. The adults in the 50's are now in the 70's and 80's and their children are in the 40-60's. So using JCE's words " Despite America being so racist in the 1950s...." means the people who were racist are mostly still alive and their children are definitely still alive AND RUNNING THE COUNTRY.

seriously bro.

[Edited on March 22, 2016 at 11:31 AM. Reason : JCE]

3/22/2016 11:30:28 AM

Quote :

"Wait... Hold the fuck up. What he's saying is not completely untrue. Its just our military only version of history that is taught in public school, that makes people think like that. Here is one example https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Wall_Street_(Durham,_North_Carolina) Quote : "However, the 1960s urban renewal removed much of Hayti and Durham’s Black Wall Street." This 'urban renewal' project basically consisted of bulldozing the black business (led to the decline of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln_Hospital_(Durham,_NC)) and replaced these places with what you see today on Fayeteville st (the 'ghetto') and... Highway 147"

Don't forget the tulsa (before the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921).

In all these cases, it was white people getting upset and burning black towns to the ground, then passing jim crow laws or using other violence and intimidation to keep blacks down.

3/22/2016 12:04:06 PM

Nixon official: real reason for the drug war was to criminalize black people and hippies
http://www.vox.com/2016/3/22/11278760/war-on-drugs-racism-nixon

Should be obvious by now, also gun-control laws. Both were designed to target blacks.

3/22/2016 1:21:30 PM

Regardless of your position on the justice system, try just for shits and giggles replacing the word 'prison' with 'camp' and see what happens when you carry out your same arguments again.

3/22/2016 1:37:19 PM

Regardless of your position on racial injustice, try just for shits and giggles replacing the word 'slavery' with 'internship' and see what happens when you carry out your same arguments again.

3/22/2016 2:29:45 PM

I had a slavery at NPR in 2003.

3/22/2016 2:45:42 PM

The only difference between a prison and an internment camp is cultural programming.

3/22/2016 2:47:30 PM

Quote :

"Unfortunately we live in a world where ones actions are treated differently depending on who they are. A white college student caught with cocaine is treated different than a black inner city kid caught with a joint. Both are held personally responsible for their actions but I can guarantee their treatment and punishment are widely different."

Right, because the black kid with a joint gets shot 20 times with his hands up by racist KKK cops, and the white kid gets a pass and does a few lines of coke with the police commissioner? If you really think the law doesn't apply and it is that unfair you need to back it up with evidence.

Also notice how even for your made-up example, you compare a college kid to a poor kid... don't confuse the factors of wealth and race.

Quote :

"We can talk about personal responsibility all day but until everyone is held responsible in a similar way it doesn't do much to explain someones situation. "

When it comes to 16 year old girls having 3 babies, that is a personal choice that has nothing to do with being more likely to be stopped by a cop because you are black you are in a higher-crime area.

3/22/2016 3:01:02 PM

Its mindboggling to everyone that you don't understand how simple this is
https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/race/news/2012/03/13/11351/the-top-10-most-startling-facts-about-people-of-color-and-criminal-justice-in-the-united-states/

Quote :

"While people of color make up about 30 percent of the United States’ population, they account for 60 percent of those imprisoned. The prison population grew by 700 percent from 1970 to 2005, a rate that is outpacing crime and population rates. The incarceration rates disproportionately impact men of color: 1 in every 15 African American men and 1 in every 36 Hispanic men are incarcerated in comparison to 1 in every 106 white men."

Its literally that simple. What else is needed? Either you believe that all men are created equal americans have same opportunities or you believe that people of color are not capable of following the laws.
We've already discussed that yes there are quantitatively more poor white people than blacks. So if its not race and its not wealth (which is really just benefiting from exploiting people who had no legal rights or representation) then explain this statistic to me.

[Edited on March 22, 2016 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2016 3:12:34 PM

Another extremely simple illustration.

Look up the difference between crack and cocaine sentencing laws. Speaking pharmacologically, the drugs are exactly the same. The active chemical is exactly the same. So why does a poor person who in reality needs medical and psychological attention, get a mandatory minimum of 10+ years, while a affluent person who can afford a refined version of the exact same substance get a sentence that starts in the months range? Surely you don't believe that a crack head is going to 'pay their debt to society' or get 'reformed' in prison and come out a better person.

3/22/2016 3:19:51 PM

Quote :

"If you really think the law doesn't apply and it is that unfair you need to back it up with evidence. "

dear god...i think statistics to support that claim have been brought up a dozen times in this very thread.

3/22/2016 3:44:48 PM

Quote :

"When it comes to 16 year old girls having 3 babies, that is a personal choice that has nothing to do with being more likely to be stopped by a cop because you are black you are in a higher-crime area."

While I have no problem discussing personal choice pertaining to adults, using it to blame a 16 year old child why she has children is seriously fucked up. 16 year olds are not adults. How do you even think its a good idea to use that as an example to illustrate personal choice?

AND being stopped and disproportionately charged for petty drug offenses is the exact reason why thousands of children do not have a core family unit. This then effects these children's way of thinking as adults which then bleeds into the next generation. This causes your 16 year old having babies situation.

And Krallum just posted abunch of evidence showing how the justice system is fucked.

Also regarding confusing wealth and race. Minorities have been systematically removed from opportunity through a number of ways in this country. To use an example of a minority which has since been accepted into "American White Society": Italians and the stereotype of the "mobster" happen because everyone fucking hated Italians and wouldnt hire them. They had to turn to criminal activity to survive. Also Italian Anarchists were considered a real problem in this country in the first part of the 20th century and they were accused of killing a shitload of people on Wall st with a sizable bomb.

In my opinion you do not understand how connected all of these issues are and how it takes generations to correct the damage.

3/22/2016 3:47:46 PM

At the end of the day, either all people have the same chance or they don't. The statistics are so insanely lop-sided that I don't see how you could come to any conclusion other than some people are getting fucked more than others. I didn't have the same opportunity that my siblings had, not because of race but just because of the change in the economy in the 90s. How could you not think that a group of people that were systematically oppressed for 2 centuries don't have some modicum of a disadvantage today?

[Edited on March 22, 2016 at 5:15 PM. Reason : oopz]

3/22/2016 5:07:27 PM

I kinda just wanted to say modicum

3/22/2016 6:08:14 PM

The TWW social justice Warriors defiantly state their case again to fend off white oppression and bring watermelons and fried chicken to all!

Seriously though why do African Americans like Hillary more than Bernie?

3/22/2016 8:25:15 PM

maybe they've been fucked over by promises of free shit enough times that they're starting to catch on?

3/22/2016 8:30:42 PM

Quote :

" We've already discussed that yes there are quantitatively more poor white people than blacks. So if its not race and its not wealth (which is really just benefiting from exploiting people who had no legal rights or representation) then explain this statistic to me."

% Poor black people > % of poor white people

Poor people are more likely to turn to crime, drugs and go to prison.

Quote :

"or you believe that people of color are not capable of following the laws."

You seem to believe that any discrepancy between races is proof of a racist law. I only care about equal opportunity, not equal outcome. Black men commit murder at a much higher rate than other races and sexes, does that make it a racist law? Asian men commit murder at the lowest rate, perhaps they should acknowledge their Asian Privilege?

3/22/2016 8:50:16 PM

Alllllrriiight buddy

3/22/2016 9:03:23 PM

So much of the entrepreneurship trend that we're in now seems more and more like white trust fund kids starting businesses that break even at best so that they can look successful on social media.

3/22/2016 9:15:24 PM

Too bad prison isn't full of muderers.

https://www.google.com/search?q=percentage+of+prisoners+non+violent+drug+offenses

Quote :

"The second-largest category, immigration-related crimes, accounts for 10.6 percent of inmates. This means that people convicted of two broad categories of nonviolent crimes — drugs and immigration — make up over 60 percent of the U.S. prison population"

And before you discredit this liberal media source, its using numbers from the Bureau of Justice Statistics
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/Prisons_and_Drugs#sthash.fl3UJo80.L6xSXO7t.dpbs

Quote :

"Fifty percent (95,800) of sentenced inmates in federal prison on September 30, 2014 (the most recent date for which federal offense data are available) were serving time for drug offenses"

[Edited on March 22, 2016 at 9:37 PM. Reason : ]

3/22/2016 9:33:51 PM

Hey GUYZ AFRICAN-AMERICANS IN JAIL ARE VICTIMS OF RACIST POLICE AND WHITE OPPRESSION!!

Personnel-Responsibility is silly!

LAWL

#ALM

3/23/2016 1:25:54 AM

this popped up on my twitter feed

not that it's shocking to most, but still

Quote :

"At the time, I was writing a book about the politics of drug prohibition. I started to ask Ehrlichman a series of earnest, wonky questions that he impatiently waved away. “You want to know what this was really all about?” he asked with the bluntness of a man who, after public disgrace and a stretch in federal prison, had little left to protect. “The Nixon campaign in 1968, and the Nixon White House after that, had two enemies: the antiwar left and black people. You understand what I’m saying? We knew we couldn’t make it illegal to be either against the war or black, but by getting the public to associate the hippies with marijuana and blacks with heroin, and then criminalizing both heavily, we could disrupt those communities. We could arrest their leaders, raid their homes, break up their meetings, and vilify them night after night on the evening news. Did we know we were lying about the drugs? Of course we did.”"

https://harpers.org/archive/2016/04/legalize-it-all/

[Edited on March 23, 2016 at 7:43 AM. Reason : f]

3/23/2016 7:42:14 AM

3/23/2016 8:42:31 AM

It's nice to know HUR has zero to contribute at this point.

What I've gathered is personal responsibility only extends to people JCE deems an issue. These people are usually poor and most often minorities. He does not seem to take issue with people responsible for causing pain to large groups of people trough toxic policy and enforcement of laws specifically created to cause harm. Personal responsibility should not be extended to them bc that is way too esoteric.

I bet he's the kinda guy who hits a dog and then gets pissed the dog tries to bite him.

3/23/2016 9:16:57 AM

http://www.cc.com/video-clips/rkft1g/the-daily-show-with-trevor-noah-a-wrongful-arrest-defense-clinic

3/23/2016 1:18:23 PM

Quote :

" Too bad prison isn't full of muderers."

When did I claim it was? It was just an example to show that if a race commits more of a crime they will get arrested for it more, therefore a disproportionate incarceration rate for one race does not prove racism by itself (as you seemed to think it did in the drug context).

I referenced murder also, because that is a very quantifiable crime in terms of actual crime committed compared to punishment, whereas self-reported drug use surveys from liberal sources aren’t accurate in terms of actual crime committed to punishment.

3/23/2016 5:36:55 PM

This is not an argumentative point, I'm trying to understand what you just posted.

What survey are you talking about? The survey the Bureau of Justice Statistics took of current prisoners and their conviction?

Quote :

"When did I claim it was?"

You didn't, but your point is looking at the minority (how ironic). The majority of people in prison are there for non-violent crimes. Half of prisoners are there for non-violent drug offenses. Since Nancy Reagen's (rest in whatever) Just Say No campaign, examine how prison rates have climbed: http://www.sentencingproject.org/template/page.cfm?id=107

All I'm saying is that the CIA injected crack into urban areas then used this to further perpetuate the system created by Jim Crow. Do you have an audible? http://www.audible.com/pd/Nonfiction/The-New-Jim-Crow-Audiobook/B007QW236E?gclid=CIeWivjj18sCFUEkhgodaDAMtA&pcrid=94902594009&mkwid=s62hvGSBE_dc&pmt=e&source_code=GO1GB907ESH060513&pkw=the+new+jim+crow Since I know you can't read I'll buy you this shit on audible. inbox me your email

[Edited on March 23, 2016 at 5:46 PM. Reason : ]

3/23/2016 5:45:46 PM

Quote :

" What survey are you talking about? The survey the Bureau of Justice Statistics took of current prisoners and their conviction?"

No it wouldn’t involve the Bureau of Justice because it was a self-reported usage rate. I think one of TWW SJW’s was using it to claim black people do less drugs than white people but are arrested by racist police at a higher rate.

Quote :

" The majority of people in prison are there for non-violent crimes"

Again, where did I claim this wasn’t the case? I am aware of this fact and I don’t see how it refutes anything I’ve said.

Quote :

" All I'm saying is that the CIA injected crack into urban areas then used this to further perpetuate the system created by Jim Crow"

I also hear the government created aids to kill off the homosexuals.

Referencing a professional race-baiter like Michelle Alexander as if it’s an objective source… I can see why you would think black people have no chance at success if you spend so much time reading biased liberal material.

Regarding the war on drugs (and the 1994 quote from Ehrlichman that I guess the liberal media is digging up now for some reason? *cough* election cycle *cough*). Even if Nixon personally delivered crack cocaine in a gift basket to every black person in the 1960s, voluntarily using the drug was still a choice and a crime. I understand it is difficult for some people to understand, but law is law regardless of a possible, secret, sinister, racist intent. I know the left will scream “victim-blaming” but when the “victim” commits a crime, just like Mike Brown in Ferguson, you can’t say “It’s because I’m black” when it was a personal choice to break a law.

I think it's fair to point out that the law should apply evenly to everyone, so rich people doing drugs in their nice neighborhoods should be arrested more often... but the counter point is rich neighborhoods are safer and don't have people shooting each other over drugs, hence less police presence and less rich (or white) people arrests. There are a lot of factors that contribute to racial arrest disparities, but it is important to distinguish and understand them individually rather than paint with a broad HuffintonPost brush that just tells black people they are helpless victims and they aren't accountable for their own choices (because that does more harm than good).

[Edited on March 23, 2016 at 7:26 PM. Reason : .]

3/23/2016 7:22:57 PM

I have decided that you are incapable of understanding concepts involving more than one participant.

It's mind boggling. What do you do for a living?

3/23/2016 7:45:01 PM

He's really just incapable of having empathy for other human beings that have different circumstances.

3/23/2016 7:45:44 PM

Here an example:

let's say 20% of both neighborhood A and B do drugs.

Now let's say that 80% of drug users in neighborhood A are arrested for using drugs and another 10% of the total population is searched but have no drugs on them.

Neighborhood B as 10% of its drug users arrested bc they passed on the street and 0% were searched.

If both of those areas havd similar economic and crime situations initially would you assume neighborhood A, after awhile, would be driven into a shit hole of broken families and people who hated the police?

3/23/2016 7:53:06 PM

^^, ^^^

It could just be cognitive dissonance in deference to imprinted beliefs.

3/24/2016 1:13:07 AM

^ Keep reading those white guilt HuffingtonPost articles.

Quote :

"He's really just incapable of having empathy for other human beings that have different circumstances. victimize themselves through poor choices"

Quote :

"I have decided that you are incapable of understanding concepts involving more than one participant. "

I have decided you are incapable of refuting anything I say.

Quote :

"If both of those areas havd similar economic and crime situations "

Thats the thing... they don't have similar economic and crime situations. Hence more police in one area.

[Edited on March 24, 2016 at 2:36 AM. Reason : cognitive dissonance ]

3/24/2016 2:34:50 AM

White guilt!

BINGO!!!!!

3/24/2016 6:44:55 AM

3/24/2016 7:23:50 AM

I guess this is the big divide in our thinking. I know people make shitty choices and people should be held responsible for their actions. We live in a semi functioning society bc of this.

However I don't really care about why an individual does something like having a kid at 17. I care about why and the cause/effect of a huge population doing it.

My cousin (woman) recently had a kid with a 17 year old boy. He is a wanna be bull rider who wears a confederate flag belt buckle and supports trump. Oh and they live in Minnesota. She has essentially been held hostage by his parents who she now lives with. She is responsible for her situation. I'm interested in why she thought any of this was a good idea and why lots of lower middle class people put themselves in shit situations like this.

Also, this is totally outside of the drug conversation but still tied to personal responsibility. And please the situation I made is hypothetical. Please let me know if you agree one neighborhood would be much worse a generation or two later.

[Edited on March 24, 2016 at 8:41 AM. Reason : Gaaaa]

3/24/2016 8:27:33 AM

is your cousin black? because only the blacks have teen pregnancies because they don't do life decisions good.

3/24/2016 10:07:26 AM

Quote :

"Also "personal responsibility" is fine to discuss if we lived in a vacuum. Unfortunately we live in a world where ones actions are treated differently depending on who they are. A white college student caught with cocaine is treated different than a black inner city kid caught with a joint. Both are held personally responsible for their actions but I can guarantee their treatment and punishment are widely different. We can talk about personal responsibility all day but until everyone is held responsible in a similar way it doesn't do much to explain someones situation. Also also, JCE claims the USA was racist in the 1950's and presumably got more racist as you went back in time.. A large part of the population of the US was an adult or growing up in the 50's and were having children and instilling their values on those children. This means a huge chunk of the population was alive during this "more racist time" and contributing to racism as well as having kids and providing them with racist mentalities. The adults in the 50's are now in the 70's and 80's and their children are in the 40-60's. So using JCE's words " Despite America being so racist in the 1950s...." means the people who were racist are mostly still alive and their children are definitely still alive AND RUNNING THE COUNTRY. "

So for the hypothetical about the cocaine and the joint, you think until every single situation is handled the exact same regardless of race or wealth, then people should not be held personally responsible? What if the white kid got caught with cocaine and the black kid chose not to use an illegal drug? Is the white kid a victim of white privilege because he thought he would get off with a warning?

People who are filthy rich can buy their way out of trouble, I can't. But regardless if I had money or not, I choose to follow the laws.

And do you really think the US is more racist now than it was in 1950?

3/24/2016 10:41:45 AM

Quote :

"And do you really think the US is more racist now than it was in 1950?"

I normally would have said of course its not, but with the amount of people voting for Donald Trump I have begun to question that. People are definitely more silent about it than in the past, but its clear those people are coming out of the woodwork here lately.

3/24/2016 11:25:34 AM

I think racism has decreased 12% since the 1950's

3/24/2016 11:52:13 AM

Quote :

"It's nice to know HUR has zero to contribute at this point. "

Sorry Brah was on a business trip!

If we wonder why racism exists perhaps it is articles like this being shared on FB (i've seen it on 5 different feeds)

http://m.wbtv.com/wbtv/db_346288/contentdetail.htm?contentguid=CF2IC59F

As an impressionable white youth in a suburb of charlotte, ignorant to all the famous white child molestors, this article merely reinforces the criminal black raping grandma stereotype.

I suppose this raper was a victim of society too! AM I RITE

[Edited on March 24, 2016 at 12:01 PM. Reason : a]

3/24/2016 12:01:08 PM

wat

3/24/2016 1:59:07 PM

wat

3/24/2016 2:14:04 PM

Quote :

"So for the hypothetical about the cocaine and the joint, you think until every single situation is handled the exact same regardless of race or wealth, then people should not be held personally responsible? What if the white kid got caught with cocaine and the black kid chose not to use an illegal drug? Is the white kid a victim of white privilege because he thought he would get off with a warning? People who are filthy rich can buy their way out of trouble, I can't. But regardless if I had money or not, I choose to follow the laws."

The point is, until everyone is treated equally under the justice system, what is the fucking point of talking about personal responsibility? If everyone is not held to the same level of personal responsiblity its a pointless thing to talk about it.

and bravo for following the law! I bet you're fun at parties.

As for racism between now and 1950, we no longer enforce laws which are directly racist (separate bathrooms, segregation etc). I have no doubt on my mind that many parts of the country wouldn't mind going back to doing this.

[Edited on March 24, 2016 at 2:47 PM. Reason : !!]

3/24/2016 2:43:47 PM

Quote :

"hat is the fucking point of talking about personal responsibility?"

LOL you are kidding right.

I should totally drop out of school, go rob a C-store, and knock-up my 17 old girlfriend because the white system is just racist!

3/24/2016 2:53:22 PM