Quote :

"Ben Howland sounds like a "HELL OF A DEAL""

LOL

2/8/2011 9:32:56 PM

Quote :

"You really need to work on your reading comprehension"

Everyone I sit around says his time is over.

Do you attend games? What "old people" are you talking about? You are just saying hearsay.

2/8/2011 9:34:55 PM

the old people really hate him

2/8/2011 9:38:37 PM

Quote :

"You are just saying hearsay."

LOL, and what are you doing? From the way you act on here I have to assume you're a 12 year old that can't even drive to games, much less afford season tickets.

And to answer your question. I'm talking about people I work with and parents of friends from back home who are state fans. They're not all clamouring for him to be fired. Some of them are even OK with giving him to the end of his contract. Which was the whole point of the original statement, if you would kindly go back and follow the damned thread for once.

2/8/2011 9:43:39 PM

Quote :

"LOL, and what are you doing?"

Telling you what people in the seats are saying.

But your friends back home know more than those at the games.

[Edited on February 8, 2011 at 9:49 PM. Reason : just look at attendance numbers man, it's not like I'm making this shit up]

2/8/2011 9:47:10 PM

Dude, do you even know what thread of conversation you've poked your head into? Or is your head too far up your ass to read the thread and follow the flow of conversation?

2/8/2011 9:48:58 PM

Well the ones who still want to keep Lowe beyond this year aren't really in tune with college basketball and probably don't really care about the results of our basketball team either.

[Edited on February 8, 2011 at 9:50 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2011 9:49:46 PM

Not saying that the people in the stands don't hate him, but the reach of the message boards to real fans in the stands is limited.

Packpride has tried to organize dumb protests (wear black, flag throwing shit only that queer aaronburro did) and dumb support activities in the past and they have failed miserably. There are, at most, 30-40 people who actively discuss nc state sports on pack pride and tww.

It's a common mistake people make -- thinking internet activism is even remotely as effective as hitting the pavement and talking to people.

[Edited on February 8, 2011 at 9:51 PM. Reason : .]

2/8/2011 9:50:26 PM

If we lose to Wake, Lowe's ACC winning % will officially be lower than Les Robinson.

28-66 29.78%

22-51 30.13%

And I'm sure some people wanted Les to stay as well because he would occasionally beat Carolina.

2/8/2011 9:55:46 PM

cool stats that bring absolutely nothing to the conversation, brah

2/8/2011 10:00:08 PM

Point is a coaching change is almost never going to be backed 100% by everyone.

I'm sure there were a few loyal followers that wanted to keep Les on since he cleaned up the program.

2/8/2011 10:05:57 PM

Message boards just create a perception that for only NC State will the media extrapolate to mean the entire fan-base, including women and young children.

[Edited on February 8, 2011 at 10:09 PM. Reason : hide ya kids, hide ya wife]

2/8/2011 10:09:22 PM

Wait a minute

boozie has season tickets?

2/8/2011 10:16:32 PM

^ at UNC

2/8/2011 10:32:59 PM

Quote :

"If we lose to Wake, Lowe's ACC winning % will officially be lower than Les Robinson. 28-66 29.78% 22-51 30.13% And I'm sure some people wanted Les to stay as well because he would occasionally beat Carolina. "

Les coached in a much much tougher ACC, too

2/8/2011 10:36:51 PM

If we lose to Wake (the worst team ever in the ACC), Lowe needs to be fired on the spot and be forced to pay his own way back to Raleigh.

2/8/2011 11:19:01 PM

why would he come back to raleigh?

2/8/2011 11:26:06 PM

^^
They beat UVA, don't let a potential loss to Wake Forest cloud your judgment on Sid's abilities.

2/9/2011 7:50:08 AM

hahaha

2/9/2011 9:17:37 AM

Quote :

"Les coached in a much much tougher ACC, too"

Probably true. However, in the four seasons under Lowe has been here the ACC has been responsible for 2 National Championships (I think the ACC had 3 during Les's 6 seasons?).

2/9/2011 9:59:12 AM

National Championships really tell you nothing about the relative strength of the conference. FSU dominated a large portion of the 90s in CFB, but the ACC was hardly a great conference.

Just because Duke OR UNC have been good in certain years, doesn't tell you anything about the ACC collectively. Not to mention the obvious fact that the NCAA Tournament is largely a game of chance and matchups...

2/9/2011 10:07:59 AM

Quote :

"Not to mention the obvious fact that the NCAA Tournament is largely a game of chance "

lol wut?

2/9/2011 10:17:52 AM

As is any one game situation. Bobcats never Beat Boston over 7 games, just like Weber State would never beat UNC over 7 games. But in a one game setting, both happen.

2/9/2011 10:31:13 AM

I would like to see a comparison of the total number of at large bids. I wouldn't be surprised if it is fairly even.

2/9/2011 10:45:52 AM

Quote :

"Not to mention the obvious fact that the NCAA Tournament is largely a game of chance and matchups... "

so what you are saying is...


WE STILL HAVE A CHANCE

2/9/2011 10:46:05 AM

in other words, the Big East would be the best conference, if college basketball had best-of-7 playoff series', which it doesn't

5 titles in the last 10 years

nuff said

[Edited on February 9, 2011 at 11:44 AM. Reason : shoulda given the Pats the Lombardi even though the Giants beat them in the Super Bowl]

2/9/2011 11:42:29 AM

The ACC is a two-team conference essentially. Duke and UNC are the only ones that do much of anything. And yes I recognize MD's title a decade ago.

The Big East at least is much more balanced top to bottom.

2/9/2011 12:33:03 PM

Quote :

"Probably true. However, in the four seasons under Lowe has been here the ACC has been responsible for 2 National Championships (I think the ACC had 3 during Les's 6 seasons?)."

I really don't see that as a good way to measure. You could have a scenario where two teams run deep in the tournament and you don't even have 4 games against them during the season vs. a scenario where there are 6 quality teams where you have 12 games against them during the season. Adding to that - Duke had an extremely easy run to the championship last year.

Besides borrowing from Robinson's wiki page:

Quote :

"However, the Wolfpack lost scholarships as a result of NCAA sanctions, and the team plummeted into the ACC's second division for the next five years. The low point of Robinson's tenure at his alma mater came during the 1992-93 season. Due to injuries and academic-related suspensions, Robinson was only able to dress seven players for most of conference play."

I don't think Lowe has had to deal with quite the same set of problems.


[Edited on February 9, 2011 at 12:44 PM. Reason : --]

2/9/2011 12:42:31 PM

Quote :

"Telling you what people in the seats are saying."

you mean what the people around you are saying? you do realize, that's hearsay, right? you continue to make yourself sound like a moron with almost every post. i'm not saying you are a moron, but almost every. single. thing. you say on here is pretty moronic. i'm sorry.

[Edited on February 9, 2011 at 1:19 PM. Reason : ]

2/9/2011 1:18:35 PM

Quote :

"The ACC is a two-team conference essentially. Duke and UNC are the only ones that do much of anything. And yes I recognize MD's title a decade ago. The Big East at least is much more balanced top to bottom."

The bottom of the Big East is about as bad as any other major conference, and usually worse than the ACC. They have 33% more teams (soon to be 42% more) in basketball, so you would expect them to have more good teams and more NCAA tournament teams.

Don't get me wrong, the Big East is a strong, deep conference. However, people like to compare their top 12 against ALL 12 ACC schools, conveniently giving them a pass for Rutgers, Providence, USF, and DePaul.

2/9/2011 1:43:31 PM

I'm just saying... the BE isn't just two teams like the ACC has been for a long, long time.

2/9/2011 3:10:20 PM

that's dumb, though

it's like saying the NFC was equal to the AFC during the early 2000s because it wasn't just the Pats and Colts

2/9/2011 3:14:22 PM

Quote :

"However, people like to compare their top 12 against ALL 12 ACC schools, conveniently giving them a pass for Rutgers, Providence, USF, and DePaul."

http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=ACC
http://www.usatoday.com/sports/sagarin/bkc1011.htm
http://realtimerpi.com/rpi_conf_Men.html

2/9/2011 3:15:47 PM

In the last 10 years:

Duke won 2 national titles, made a third Final Four
UNC won 2 national titles, made a third Final Four
Maryland won 1 national title, made a second Final Four
Georgia Tech played in a national title game
Wake had a couple great seasons with CP3

on the flipside, UConn and Syracuse each have won national titles, and teams like Villanova and Georgetown have made Final Fours

Big East needs more hardware to convince me they're the greatest...all they really are is the biggest

2/9/2011 3:16:22 PM

it's funny how acc football sucks because they never have a national contender anymore

but acc basketball sucks because ALL it has are 2 national contenders

2/9/2011 3:17:03 PM

Is this the thread where we link to the Gary Parrish article and call him a piece of shit or are we doing that in another thread?

2/9/2011 3:18:01 PM

http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=ACC&y=2010
http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=ACC&y=2009
http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=ACC&y=2008
http://kenpom.com/conf.php?c=ACC&y=2007

above the big east 4 years in a row

2/9/2011 3:18:48 PM

Are we talking about 2011 or 2007

2/9/2011 3:24:00 PM

lol at that Parrish column

Quote :

"Dixon is the dream candidate at N.C. State, I'm told, and for good reason."

Fuck you guys

2/9/2011 3:28:50 PM

Good job by Parrish. He's really stepping up his game now that he has to work under the big shadow of Greg Doyel. It has to be tough to work with a guy who has given up all pretenses of being a sports writer and is now a professional troll.

I dropped him a line asking how bad the harrassment has been to this point from State fans. He usually gets back pretty quickly..

2/9/2011 3:31:11 PM

I think my favorite part is where he implied that Herb was competitive with Duke and UNC

Also the part where he said Dixon hasn't won a regular season title at Pitt (he has)

--

aha

Quote :

"NC State should take a cue from Larry Drew II. Pack up their basketball program and get the heck out of town in the middle of the night. Seriously, what's the point? The Wolfpack will never be as good as North Carolina and Duke. Ever. In fact, the only real choices in Raleigh are to bring back Herb Sendek or wallow in the basement of the conference. That's it. Live on the bubble with terrible seeding or just hang out in the gutter. I know this because the national media keeps saying it. And when are they ever wrong? They understand the historical dynamics of Triangle hoops better than anyone else. They also know one of the biggest secrets in all of college sports -- the Blue Devils and Tar Heels are too big to fail. There is a bunker in Durham filled with clones of Mike Krzyzewski. The Atlantic Coast Conference and the state of North Carolina have bylaws that prohibit any performance dips in Chapel Hill. Sorry, NC State fans, but your hopes and dreams will always be crushed by the awesome power just a few miles up the way. It towers over you like the Eye of Mordor, only there are no little Hobbits that will save you from your demise. It's as if there are two Death Stars closing in your your tiny little base and every exhaust port has been sealed for protection."

http://www.wralsportsfan.com/voices/blogpost/9076582/

[Edited on February 9, 2011 at 3:41 PM. Reason : ]

2/9/2011 3:34:19 PM

Really should have tried to find a better analogy than Khloe though. Chicks busted. I think we've all had girlfriends/wives better looking than her. I wouldn't even turn my head if I saw her on the street. Rashad McCants would though.

2/9/2011 3:43:08 PM

Quote :

"Rutgers, Providence, USF, and DePaul"

Three of those teams would beat us this year and Wake would lose to all four so I'm not sure saying the Big East has weaker bottom teams than the ACC applies (at least this season).

2/9/2011 3:45:45 PM

http://www.cbssports.com/collegebasketball/story/14667646/nc-state-fans-must-realize-theyre-the-ugly-duckling

While Duke and North Carolina battle for an ACC title, N.C. State fans debate their future.

Would Rick Barnes come back home?

What about Sean Miller?

Jamie Dixon?

These conversations will take place on various message boards and radio shows countless times over the next five weeks because the school is almost certainly headed for another coaching search considering Sidney Lowe is 2-7 in the ACC in the fifth year of a tenure that has never produced anything better than a ninth-place finish in the league. Next week or next month, barring an unimaginable turnaround, he'll be fired, at which point Rick Barnes, Sean Miller and Jamie Dixon will all stay put regardless of whether they're approached about what is the worst great-paying job in America.

Yes, N.C. State is the worst great-paying job in America (outside of President of the United States). The passion from the fan base combined with the location of the campus make it a difficult situation, which is why coaches who are accomplished, comfortable and already at a nationally relevant program would be foolish to seriously consider a move that requires them to settle in next door to Mike Krzyzewski and Roy Williams because it will inevitably lead to them being graded on the Duke and UNC curve.

N.C. State fans will dispute this, of course.

They'll tell you they merely want a good coach running a good program, that they're less interested in how they finish in relation to Duke (25 miles from the N.C. State campus) and North Carolina (30 miles from the N.C. State campus) than how they finish in relation to the rest of the ACC. One fan e-mailed over the weekend and told me he would merely like to be competitive with Duke and North Carolina, and that he would be happy to just annually finish in the top half of the league. But with all due respect, there's no real evidence such is the case.

Don't believe me, ask Herb Sendek.

Sendek coached the Wolfpack from 1996 to 2006 and finished in the top half of the ACC in each of his final five seasons, all of which resulted in NCAA tournament appearances. According to the "reasonable" Wolfpack fan who e-mailed, everything should've been hunky-dory. But everything wasn't. N.C. State fans were so tough on Sendek after five straight NCAA tournaments that he decided to walk away and escape a scenario where he would very clearly never win enough to please the majority, and what Sendek has done at Arizona State in the subsequent years is irrelevant. The point remains the same. N.C. State fans were unhappy and glad to see their coach go after five straight NCAA tournaments.

Why?

Because Duke and North Carolina were doing better.

Duke had made its ninth straight Sweet 16, UNC was one year removed from a national championship, and the Wolfpack just weren't measuring up to the two programs most closely associated with their program. But guess what? Almost no program in this era of college basketball is equipped to consistently measure up to Duke and North Carolina with Krzyzewski and Williams in charge. Kansas can probably do it with Bill Self -- as can Syracuse with Jim Boeheim, Kentucky with John Calipari and Michigan State with Tom Izzo (regardless of what this season might suggest). But outside of that (and perhaps a few others), constantly being compared to Duke and UNC is a losing proposition.

Even for Jamie Dixon.

Dixon is the dream candidate at N.C. State, I'm told, and for good reason. He's terrific and one of the nation's very best coaches, and if I were an athletic director I would want to hire him, too. That said, know this: Dixon isn't leaving Pittsburgh for N.C. State. It will never happen. But let's assume, for the sake of the column, that he would. What that would mean is that N.C. State managed to hire a guy who has over the past five seasons gone to five NCAA tournaments and finished third on average in the Big East without ever winning a Big East regular-season title or making a Final Four. Sendek, for those who don't remember, made five NCAA tournaments in his final five seasons at N.C. State and finished fourth on average in the ACC without ever winning an ACC regular-season title or making a Final Four, point being that the bottom line on Dixon's past five seasons at Pittsburgh isn't significantly different than the bottom line on Sendek's final five seasons at N.C. State.

Am I suggesting Sendek is as good as Dixon?

No.

Dixon has been better, is better and will be better going forward.

All I'm saying is that Dixon's past five seasons at Pittsburgh are a lot closer to Sendek's final five seasons at N.C. State than they are Krzyzewski's past five seasons at Duke (two ACC regular-season titles, a national championship) or Williams' past five seasons at North Carolina (three ACC regular-season titles, one national championship).

The blessing for Dixon, though, is that Pitt fans aren't consumed with Duke and North Carolina like N.C. State fans are consumed with Duke and North Carolina. So he's awesome and Sendek was a bum, and this is the incredible environment that has been created by a fan base whose school hasn't been to a Final Four since 1983. Duke has gone to 11 Final Fours and North Carolina has made nine since the Wolfpack last appeared in one. So N.C. State fans can talk about tradition, but next to Duke and North Carolina, they have none.

And yet the comparisons continue because all three schools sit in The Triangle.

Which is why I feel sorry for the next N.C. State coach the same way I feel sorry for Khloe Kardashian.

You know Khloe Kardashian, right?

She's one of the three famous Kardashian sisters, and she's probably hotter than your wife or girlfriend. That's the truth. But Khloe is constantly called ugly and fat because she's constantly on the same television as her sisters (Kim and Kourtney), and compared to them she is ugly and fat. Compared to most, she's perfectly reasonable. But when compared to her sisters, she can't possibly measure up. So Saturday Night Live clowns her and the tabloids kill her, all because she can't compete with her much hotter siblings.

That's why it must be difficult to be Khloe Kardashian.

It's also why the N.C. State job is the worst great-paying job in America.

Duke and North Carolina are Kim and Kourtney. N.C. State is Khloe. The Wolfpack can compete with most other basketball programs just like Khloe can compete with most other 26-year-old women, but the Wolfpack can't consistently compete with Duke and North Carolina in this era any more than Khloe can beat Kim and Kourtney in a bathing suit competition.

Still, a very passionate and vocal segment of the N.C. State fan base refuses to acknowledge this reality, which is why the school will have a helluva time hiring Lowe's replacement. No coach who is accomplished, comfortable and already at a nationally relevant program has any interest in walking into that world. When I explained this on a radio show in Raleigh earlier this week, the host asked if Xavier's Chris Mack would do it for $3.5 million per year.

Now I think the world of Chris Mack.

He would be a fantastic hire for N.C State athletic director Debbie Yow.

But if she has to pay $3.5 million to get a second-year coach from Xavier, I think my point is proved.

Like I said, the worst great-paying job in America is in Raleigh.

Apply for it at your own risk.

2/9/2011 3:54:51 PM

Quote :

" and what Sendek has done at Arizona State in the subsequent years is irrelevant"

But wait...I thought the whole point was that State ran out a great coach? Wouldn't a great coach be winning at Az St?

I saw someone post this, maybe here or maybe on PP, and I thought it was not only hilarious but very true...The legend of Herb Sendek has been growing every year since he left for Arizona St.

2/9/2011 4:02:01 PM

Anyone in any profession looks better in hindsight when their replacement performs markedly worse.

Its the same reason the Beardawg era is remembered fondly, while at the time we all agreed he was an incompetent oaf.



[Edited on February 9, 2011 at 4:12 PM. Reason : x]

2/9/2011 4:11:30 PM

damn i didnt realize ASU was in DFL this year in the Pac-10

2/9/2011 4:13:12 PM

Herb Sendek blows ass out in the desert but you don't here about that from the likes of Mike Patrick. I contend Herbie's success was more a product of NC State's resources available to him than his actual coaching skills. If we can get a decent and competent coach in here with our resources then I am confident we will start to win.

[Edited on February 9, 2011 at 5:34 PM. Reason : lol Herbie's, not Jerbies!]

2/9/2011 5:31:04 PM

original thought there

2/9/2011 5:39:50 PM

If Sidney would have done a decent job, that article would have never been written.

2/9/2011 5:46:40 PM