carry on empty chamber = Loose because you fine motor skills go to hell when the stress is high, requires two hands, you could short stroke it, the list goes on. dont do that. The Israelites teach that because about everyone there is armed, but only active military can carry a round in the chamber, and shit goes so bad over there it may come down to battle field pickups, so they Tap-Rack-Bang everything. ( internet lore and an article in Guns and Ammo)
appendix carry= Loose because it would be uncomfortable if you have to sit or are in a car, plus its aimed at your nuts and arterys. Reholster that glock and loose trigger finger discipline and see how bad that goes. SOB can be defeated by a rush and a bear hug, your gun arm is behind your back. Cross draw is gay even if Walker, Texas Ranger did it, the gun is pointing the wrong way, and you will sweep lots of non targets on the way to the target. Shoulder holsters are ok for lighter guns, but a full size auto will require a nice holster to keep it from beating your ribs. Horizontal shoulder holsters creep me out, vertical ones are ok.

For me, the only way to go is pocket carry with an appropirate arm in a pocket holster that is retained by my pants pocket on the draw, or strong side hip carry in a Milt Sparks or Wild Bill holster on a gun belt. I wear a Wilderness Products Frequent Flyer 5 stich. It is very rigid vertically but very comfortable.

[Edited on November 14, 2008 at 10:46 PM. Reason : 65]

11/14/2008 10:45:30 PM

Quote :

"appendix carry= Loose because it would be uncomfortable if you have to sit or are in a car, plus its aimed at your nuts and arterys. Reholster that glock and loose trigger finger discipline and see how bad that goes."

Discipline that finger and NDs aren't an issue. As a matter of fact, appendix is a better choice for driving since the weapon is more accessible while seated than a pocket holster would be. Carry the right gun and you can sit all day. If it'll fit in your pocket, it's comfortable enough for appendix carry with the right holster!

A bigger issue with cross-draw and shoulder holsters is that they are easy for a bad-guy to pull if they put you on your back. Easier for them, as a matter of fact, than it will be for you to retrieve your own gun. Don't do it.

Strong side isn't bad, it isn't great, it isn't dangerous, it isn't particularly fast. It has a bad habit of printing under light clothing. Pocket is the great if you practice drawing from the pocket. No other means of carry will allow you to place your hand on the gun without revealing that you're about to draw.

Go with appendix, pocket, or strong side and you'll be fine if you practice. Avoid cross-draw, SOB or shoulder harnesses.

11/14/2008 11:01:25 PM

good recommendations, if you're going to carry with one of those three, look into defense with the free hand, then transition to position sul, right out to isosceles. Too many people are training for an attack from 7 yards or so, and not enough for up close engagements (2-3 feet)

A drill we've done to demonstrate is to have an unloaded or dummy weapon (WITH NO AMMO AVAILABLE IN THE ROOM) and the shooter practice drawing and presenting with an attacker advancing. Many guys were surprised at how quick the gap gets closed.

11/15/2008 6:34:48 AM

the gap closes very very fast, the ability to speed rock the weapon out of the holster is important.

11/15/2008 7:19:05 AM

Indeed.

Additionally if you need to fire from position sul you can transition to center axis relock.

11/15/2008 8:02:53 AM

Has anyone here ever home-built an AK? I've wanted to try it for a few years and now Im finally back in the US for a bit and have the free time to tackle a build.

11/15/2008 2:44:45 PM

OK, I have decided now that i really want to tackle an AK build. Where is the best place to find parts kits? Are there still a decent selection floating around the gun shows around here? Im specifically interested in an underfolder.

11/16/2008 8:29:06 PM

AK parts kits are all over on Gunbroker. They are pretty easy to put together. If you want some help, PM me. You just have to decide how much work you are willing to do. Some recievers require some work to take the double stack mags.

11/16/2008 10:58:43 PM

If the gap for a fight gets really close, you're better off with a blade than a gun.

11/16/2008 11:07:48 PM

So I've recently gotten my certificate for CCH, but I'm extremely disappointed in learning the wait time for actual delivery of the permit is estimated for 3 to 6 months for my county of residence from the time I arrange the fingerprinting/form appointment with the sheriff's dept. I've heard from a LEO that there are some counties in NC that just don't care where you're from and as long you pass the background check they'll do it np. Anyone have suggestions?

11/17/2008 12:06:06 AM

^^wrong

It's easier to learn to shoot than it is to use a knife.

A gun, in a situation like that, is still usable when you have opened the space back up, through the sequence I posted above or any other variation.

Are you one of those people I read about on the internet that hates guns but has a katana beside their bed for home defense? Weird.

11/17/2008 2:20:59 AM

Do the AK parts kits come with everything needed or do you still need to buy the reciver?

11/17/2008 8:06:16 AM

Parts kits do not come with everything you need. You'll need to buy or make a receiver as well at buy the necessary number of US made compliance parts.

11/17/2008 9:54:09 AM

Quote :

"If the gap for a fight gets really close, you're better off with a blade than a gun."

HAH, where in the hell did you get that idea?!

This is a situation where the S&W Model 642 shines.

11/17/2008 10:23:08 AM

I know that the reciever isn't too difficult to make, but unless you have a manufacture's license, it might get you 4 years in da slammer.

11/17/2008 10:25:10 AM

Well the cheapest i've found a whole AK is from http://www.classicarms.us

It's a tactical model with 2 mags and bayonett for $519

[Edited on November 17, 2008 at 10:36 AM. Reason : address]

11/17/2008 10:35:24 AM

Quote :

"I know that the reciever isn't too difficult to make, but unless you have a manufacture's license, it might get you 4 years in da slammer."

You can manufacture your own reciever, no license required.
The only thing is you cannot transfer ownership of that reciever to anyone in any situation.

I've looked into building 1911s from 90% finished frames and it's legal.

11/17/2008 9:25:15 PM

gun show coming up next weekend.

11/17/2008 10:31:17 PM

Quote :

"gun show coming up next weekend."

when? where?

11/17/2008 10:35:52 PM

http://www.dixiegunandknifeshow.com/

22nd and 23rd at the fairgrounds. $8 at the door, you can get a $1 off coupon at the website.

11/17/2008 11:27:15 PM

Quote :

"If the gap for a fight gets really close, you're better off with a blade than a gun."

This isn't entirely untrue. There are a lot of variables involved, of course, but a slashing knife wound can cut more blood vessels and open more surface area than a gunshot to soft tissue such as the thigh or a tricep. This is true even if you're using hollow points which do not always reliably expand, especially when shot through heavy clothing. Depending on the thickness, you may or may not be able to stab / slash your way through the same clothing. Additionally, you're as likely, if not more to sever nerves and incapacitate someone using a blade than by firearm.

The benefit, of course, of a gun is standoff distance, but most private assaults take place at ranges where standoff isn't possible. Don't underestimate the blade on the street.

That being said, I don't have a Scottish Claymore by my bed for a reason. In a home you're on your own turf and will likely have and / or be able to create standoff distance.

FWIW.

11/18/2008 12:39:07 PM

built my first evil black rifle tonight



It is a LAR Grizzly lower with a 16" RRA upper and above that is my AR-10 upper that I still need to build...that one is going to be a little while longer because I still need a buttstock and I am going to need some help since it had the BCG and CH separate from the whole upper

11/18/2008 7:41:40 PM

Nice man, where did you get the information on how to do the build, parts, etc...?

11/18/2008 9:11:40 PM

I need a pistol safe. 1-2 gun and maybe some change. Not trying to get something I need to bolt to the floor or something that weighs a ton. Just don't want someone to grab my piece and shoot themselves. Recommendations?

11/18/2008 10:00:58 PM

wal-mart sells cheap pistol safes. like $2o cheap that will hold 2 pistols and accessories.

look at it on their website. you can pry it open with a screwdriver, but it will foil the lazy criminal.

11/18/2008 10:05:40 PM

^maybe a little something more

11/18/2008 10:08:35 PM

Ok, all you AK junkies....

So since I have not had much sucess with finding a used AK, I want to find out about building my own since you can still get parts kits for cheap.

Does anyone have any recomendations on a good parts kit and reciever and US compliant parts? I have seen plenty of AK parts kits, but i'm not sure where to go from there.

11/18/2008 10:09:02 PM

So I've been out of the gun loop for a while. I've got a couple rifles a couple shotguns and several pistols and I'm looking to get a nice rifle larger than a 5.56mm which I have already.

I'd like a semi-auto so I'm looking at a Fulton Armory M14 Peerless Match/Target Rifle. http://www.fulton-armory.com/ (scroll down some, it's the last rifle on the page). A friend that is very knowledgeable recommended Fulton over Springfield since it is a forged receiver instead of cast.

The other option is one of the .308s caliber ARs like the Armalite AR-10, DPMS panther or rock river arms LAR-8. I'd get more gun for the money with one of these and mounting accessories and optics would be easier.

Anyone have any opinions either way or any recommendations? I guess I'm going to the gunshow this weekend to look around and get some cards.

While I'm here, I haven't searched this thread yet but anyone know of any good ranges where I can get at least 500 yards to use this thing?

[Edited on November 18, 2008 at 10:30 PM. Reason : blah.]

11/18/2008 10:25:37 PM

Quote :

"Nice man, where did you get the information on how to do the build, parts, etc...?"

It is really quite simple. Get a stripped lower, lower parts kit, buttstock, and complete upper and you have all the parts you need. Then go to http://www.ar15.com and look under the build it yourself section and they have a step by step guide to putting the lower together. Once you do that you just put the upper on and you are good to go.

You can definitely get all the info you need and more from ar15.com

11/18/2008 11:17:32 PM

went to the gun place on tryon tonight and checked out the kel tec sub 2000 in .40 that I have been wanting for a while. Has anyone seen them for less than 300 dollar bucks? or should I go ahead and get it there?

Also, I found a savage .300 win mag for $240 over there and I could use another deer rifle. Its beat all to hell but I figured that I could re finish it or put a camo wrap on it. How did you put the camo wrap on your shotgun fumbler?

11/19/2008 12:00:35 AM

^^^M-14 is a good choice but if you like accessories they can be a pain. A few years ago I put an Aimpoint on my 14 and mounting the scope mount was a royal bitch. In contrast, an AR platform with a rail-system is much easier. If you like rails you can always get the Sage EBR stock for the M-14.

11/19/2008 2:30:24 AM

^^ why in the blue fuck do you want a .300 WIN for shooting deer?

11/19/2008 6:15:32 AM

"Get a stripped lower, lower parts kit, buttstock, and complete upper"

any supplier worth having is at least 6 weeks behind right now

11/19/2008 7:39:57 AM

Quote :

"went to the gun place on tryon tonight and checked out the kel tec sub 2000 in .40 that I have been wanting for a while. Has anyone seen them for less than 300 dollar bucks? or should I go ahead and get it there? Also, I found a savage .300 win mag for $240 over there and I could use another deer rifle. Its beat all to hell but I figured that I could re finish it or put a camo wrap on it. How did you put the camo wrap on your shotgun fumbler? "

$300 sounds reasonable. You used to be able to find them for $240-250, but that was a few years ago.
Which mags does that SUB 2000 take?

That shotgun isn't camo wrapped, it's painted with Krylon ultra flat paint. The plastic buttstock and forend had a base coat of Krylon fusion to get good adhesion.
I don't like the idea of camo tape on guns because if you don't watch it rust could develop under the tape.
That basic steps to do a camo job like mine are:
-take apart and clean gun
-rough up smooth surfaces with sandpaper
-clean gun
-mask off whatever you dont want to paint
-paint on primer on metal and fusion on plastic
-mask off some "digital" patches, paint with next color
-repeat last steps with 3 or 4 colors

Quote :

"^^ why in the blue fuck do you want a .300 WIN for shooting deer?"

Yeah...300 winmag is way overkill. If you want it for its "flat trajectory" then there are much better options like the 7mag, 264, 25-06, etc.
If you understand what you're getting into with the recoil and just want a another gun then go for it.

11/19/2008 10:52:13 AM

Quote :

"any supplier worth having is at least 6 weeks behind right now"

which is why I got mine before they got behind

11/19/2008 1:29:41 PM

^^ The sub 2000 is the glock magazine model.

I have been deer hunting all my life and I am aware of the recoil of a 300 win mag. I have hunted with my remington 700 30-06 all of my life. Just saw that 300 win mag and the super low price. I have deer hunted with a 300 ULTI mag in some big beanfields back home (borrowed it from a friend). Basicly, I would like something that I can shoot upwards of 600 yards, but I want to find it on the cheap and restore it myself.

11/19/2008 2:08:28 PM

.300 WM recoil isnt everything its made to be, especially with an 8lb rifle with a big ass scope on it. Man up and shoot it. I have seen the one on the shelf at PDHSC, it would be an easy fix. refinishing the stock would make it look $150 better, then coat the metal with alumahydeII, wait a week for it to dry, and go for it. I like citristrip from walmart for stripping stocks and Truoil for a finish.

11/19/2008 2:38:50 PM

^ what is alumahydeII?

Btw, I wasnt the one saying that the .300 was too much gun for me.

11/19/2008 3:37:12 PM

^ nevermind. OMGOOGLE.

11/19/2008 3:49:07 PM

Quote :

"^^wrong It's easier to learn to shoot than it is to use a knife. A gun, in a situation like that, is still usable when you have opened the space back up, through the sequence I posted above or any other variation."

Consider for a moment that you've been ambushed. This is how most crimes happen, the attacker will always try to maintain the advantage of already having weapons (gun/knife) to bear and then initiating the attack from either point blank or as close as they can get without alerting you. You're in a hand-to-hand fight now. If the attacker has a knife and he's right on top of you, he can stab you while you try to draw your gun. If you try to grab his knife and miss, you get cut. A knife can be brought out faster than most guns as well (CRKT M-16, assisted opening, and others). If you bring a gun to bear in a hand-to-hand fight, consider that he'll have two hands available to stop your gun arm from being able to be brought to aim on him. If someone grabs your wrist, you cannot aim. If you have a knife, you can usually still punch/bludgeon with the knife in hand. Any motion that brings the cutting edge to bear with force will most likely deal damage of some sort. Stabbing can deal a much worse wound than a bullet. Just because you shot someone doesn't mean they're dead. If you're carrying a compact gun, you may have limited ammunition in your magazine or cylinder. If your ammo is spent, your gun doesn't do any good other than to distract someone when you throw it at them. Knives don't run out of bullets.

Quote :

"Are you one of those people I read about on the internet that hates guns but has a katana beside their bed for home defense? Weird."

If you read a fucking thing in this thread you'd already know that I love guns. Just know when you're going to be in a melee though. Considering my position, I don't sleep with any weapons.

SaabTurbo, refer above.

JCASHFAN, thanks for entertaining the idea.

Quote :

"went to the gun place on tryon tonight and checked out the kel tec sub 2000 in .40 that I have been wanting for a while. Has anyone seen them for less than 300 dollar bucks? or should I go ahead and get it there? Also, I found a savage .300 win mag for $240 over there and I could use another deer rifle. Its beat all to hell but I figured that I could re finish it or put a camo wrap on it. How did you put the camo wrap on your shotgun fumbler?"

Lucky1, a Savage rifle is a fairly modular platform. There are plenty of aftermarket stocks available for it, and changing the barrel to a caliber of the same bolt-head size is relatively easy as well.

11/19/2008 6:19:03 PM

ok... I'm in the market for a couple pistols, one being a 22, and the other being a 9mm


for the 22's, here is what I'm looking at
- S&W 22A (~$329)
- Ruger Mark III (~$329)
- Walther P22 (also around $320, but I have seen for 400 with the factory laser on it)


for 9MM:
- S&W M&P ($4-$500) and the Sigma ($350)
- Springfield XD ($450-475)
- Taurus PT 111 MP ($350), PT 24/7 ($420)
- Ruger P94 or P95 (both around $350)
- Bersa 9mm ($340)
- Glock 17 ($500)... I'm not to familiar with glocks- any other 9mm suggestion?


as for what i've listed, anyone have any likes/dislikes with any of these models? and do those prices look about right (this is just what I've come up with after looking and calling around for the next couple of days). I'm gonna be going to the Dixie classic this weekend and looking around there, but I would really like to have something purchased by Saturday. Any and all advice would be appreciated!

11/19/2008 6:52:17 PM

Everyone should own a glock. Take a look at the 19, it is smaller than the 17 but is still big enough.

With a glock you can basically shoot your gun with the dirtiest ammo you can find, throw it in a lake, run over it with your car, throw it out of an airplane, pick it up and keep shooting.

11/19/2008 7:14:40 PM

I have cap guns with better triggers, and why are you shooting stank ammo? Glocks will barf in your hands, its rare but it has happened with cheap .40 ammo. Im a glock hater from way back, but I would buy an Xd if I needed a double stack auto.

11/19/2008 7:19:37 PM

I wouldnt own a .40 so that's not a problem

and I have no problem putting a nice grouping together with my glock so maybe you just need to adjust your technique

If I am going to be shooting a gun for enjoyment and accuracy I will take my 1911 by all means over my glock but if I am going to have a gun that I need to depend on for my life a glock does the job

11/19/2008 7:24:34 PM

^^^^ also consider a SIG Trailside, Ruger Mk II, or anything by High Standard for a .22

for a 9mm, you must try out a SIG P-series (probably starting with a P226) before you get anything else.

11/19/2008 7:34:27 PM

Duke, I know you champion Sigs, but what do you think of Berettas?

11/19/2008 7:44:19 PM

They're good pistols. I probably have fired more rounds through a Beretta than I have through my 1911 (though not as many as I did through my SIG P226). I've shot a .40 version, too.

I like other stuff better, though. SIGS feel better in my hands, and I prefer their trigger, and I shoot a little more accurately with them. I like 1911s, too, but that's a very different kind of pistol.

I like Glocks, from the little bit that I've shot them, except the trigger. If that could be resolved, I could get on board, but with no manual safety, I'd be scared to push it far enough (in terms of lightening and potentially shortening the pull) to suit my tastes. A stock one would be good for a compact carry gun where I wouldn't really care about going to the range and drilling small groups into paper (or drilling an assailant straight through the chest at 25m). It would be quite suitable for concealing and shooting someone at 3m under duress.

[Edited on November 19, 2008 at 7:57 PM. Reason : asdfads]

[Edited on November 19, 2008 at 7:58 PM. Reason : SIGs have no manual safety, of course, but DA/SA gives the best of both worlds.]

11/19/2008 7:49:48 PM

For some reason the glock trigger works PERFECTLY for me, it's very consistent and I'm accurate with them.

There is also a NY Trigger and a NY Trigger "plus," so I wonder if you experienced one or both of those versions. Either way, the trigger does feel different compared to other guns but it works very well if you get used to it.

11/19/2008 8:24:48 PM

oh, it's consistent. i like SA triggers, though.

11/19/2008 8:27:39 PM

Posted this originally in the wrong thread:


So on the topic of the AR-15/Rifles, I am looking at a Del-Ton kit, and buying a stripped lower from Gunbroker or something.

It looks like with the options I want, and the sights, itll be around $900 total for the build, does that seem reasonable?

I was going to go cheap and go with the regular A2 upper with the built in sight and the standard A2 front sight, but I cant bring myself to do that knowing that I will probably want to put a scope on it in the future and end up changing out all the parts anyway.

The parts kit from Del-Ton, including the detachable front and rear sights and shipping is $700 bucks. It looks like I can get the stripped lower for about $200 from gunbroker (and my gun guy will do $15 FFL transfers).

Any thoughts?

Should I be able to do this cheaper?

11/19/2008 8:32:12 PM