Yea tried lings, tried ling roach, tried ling bling roach lol. Generally the push is ~12-15 Thor + a ton of hellions. Ling/BL/Corruptor seemed to work very well. Corruption all the thors and position BLs well. You have time to tech up to BLs just because of how long it takes to get that many thors hahaha. Ling/roach/hydra composition work untill u get a huge critical mass of upgraded thors =( Or if they do a +1 vehicle armor timing push with thors it takes ~120 ling hits to kill a single thor =(

9/8/2010 11:50:17 PM

Quote :

"mutas+lings...my favorite combo"

and now that I know how to deal with it, I'd be happy to see you to that

9/8/2010 11:51:30 PM

Just hate magic boxing vs that many thors, one misclick to clump them and boom insta gg

9/8/2010 11:52:32 PM

you could always go for some interesting nydus network play

9/8/2010 11:56:08 PM

Not vs a late-game turtle terran. Any one with a brain has a few tanks around base since they already have the tech-lab factories + sensor towers/turrets all over to spot since they need a mineral dump. It turns into a huge macro game seeing if you can juggle 4-6 bases, tech/ugprade up, and scout for him to move out. Nydus do not work vs turtle terran unless its a fast lair allin push.

9/8/2010 11:58:31 PM

Besides Idra, Sen, and Dimaga it doesn't appear that there are many good zerg players in SC2 currently. Seems like it's a race issue that still needs to be fixed.

9/9/2010 12:01:29 AM

Its terrans adaptibility thats the problem imo. First off, terran are the hardest people to scout. Then if I go in and scout and see a techlab on X building, he could just lift and switch 5sec later and counter whatever he sees with his lolscan. Zerg are about macro, scouting, and building the RIGHT units; its just hard to do vs terran atm.

9/9/2010 12:04:10 AM

That's part of what makes Terran the way they are though. I offer no solution. Perhaps if zerg had some kind of better early harass?


Also, ZvZ is the most boring thing in the universe to watch.

9/9/2010 12:09:13 AM

Well the 5RR is pretty nice for that harass but yeah. Ask terrans if they are ever really scared in the first 8 or so min of a TvZ and I doubt you'll get many yes's lol. They can be so greedy!

9/9/2010 12:15:03 AM

Quote :

"Yea tried lings, tried ling roach, tried ling bling roach lol. Generally the push is ~12-15 Thor + a ton of hellions. Ling/BL/Corruptor seemed to work very well. Corruption all the thors and position BLs well. You have time to tech up to BLs just because of how long it takes to get that many thors hahaha. Ling/roach/hydra composition work untill u get a huge critical mass of upgraded thors =( Or if they do a +1 vehicle armor timing push with thors it takes ~120 ling hits to kill a single thor =("

Wow 12-15 thor you are talking pretty late game. Really unit composition isn't as important as hopefully at that point you've just totally outmacroed him and you can just throw the kitchen sink at him and run him out of money. If you are even on bases at that point of the game between tanks, viking, thors its pretty tough with zerg... you should be able to mass up quite a few upgraded roaches and those are really key with hydra backup and some BL. Maybe some ultras mixed in just as a bit of a meat shield. Upgraded Roaches will take down thors pretty fast.

And there are really good zergs out there just a lot of them are Korean. I've watched this stream of a Korean guy (PheonixWerra I believe?) and it is unreal watching him. 300 APM just clicking nonstop. I mean his meaningful actions are faster then I think I could just click around randomly. It just takes such a high APM to be good with zerg...

9/9/2010 12:27:26 AM

It's just that tier 1 zerg is such garbage.

9/9/2010 12:48:49 AM

Watch CheckPrime and oGsCool. Prolly the two best Zerg players I've seen

9/9/2010 12:59:01 AM

Quote :

"Wow 12-15 thor you are talking pretty late game. "

Yeah i'm talking me 4-6 base them 2-3 base type scenario. Roaches work on some maps but the current map pool is so full of chokes and just relatively confined areas =(

9/9/2010 1:29:30 AM

This is the kind of game that makes me mad to the qq level.

4v4, PZTT v TTTT

I
-expand on 30
-quickly get 8 gates and saturate both bases
-at the 12:00 mark before the other team attacks I'm around 120 food. Not bad right?
-at around 12:20 I scout a big push coming, and tell them to get units ready near where it comes
-at around 12:45 I'm at 140 food and the push comes. I have +2/+1 ground upgrades and charge.
-at around 13:30 they break the wall. the zerg player finally decides to send units
-his units quickly die. I'm able to break the attack eventually.

Just to look at things before that first attack:
I'm at 140 food 1600 income/min
closest teammate is at 75 food, next closest at like 60 and then 50. other team was like 94, 70, 60, 40.
My probe count was around 50. max on their team was like 25, two guys had between 10 and 20. One guy on our team had like 34, one was low twenties, and the other i don't even remember.

How do we lose? terribad teammates. so I rage at them ccing the other team, one of them has the nerve to call me the bad one. I have around 100 food more than one of the guys on the other team, more than twice his food, and more than any two of my teammates combined at that point, yet i'm the bad one?

[/rant]

9/9/2010 3:46:06 AM

I need a copy of this game and a faster graphics card to run it. I want to sympathize, but I have no idea what you're talking about

9/9/2010 4:27:11 AM

bitching about a 4v4 game in sc2 is on par with bitching about politics bro

9/9/2010 7:18:08 AM

4v4 and 3v3 random are really just stupid. The main problem is the matchmaking isn't fair at all. If I wanted the most frustrating impossible scenario to win in I would play 1v7 against Insane AI, theres no need to stick me with 3 bronze league players against 4 diamonds, and then Penalize my rank in the ladder when my team losses.

9/9/2010 8:24:35 AM

versus that many thors you are going to need to be in ultralisk with upgrades land supported by broodlords.

The hellions nutralize the zerglings, which is smart by him.

I am finding you really need to exploit zerg mobility to win. muta harrass, nydus, ling/bane speed. Dont forget you can retreat back INTO a nydus; your army doesnt have to be sacraficed.

9/9/2010 9:02:33 AM

I'm trying to wrap my head around playing Zerg. Questions to pros: Which units of any race do splash damage to flyers? Can roaches move past cliff ledges when burrowed?

9/9/2010 9:06:21 AM

cc the mage, dps down the rogue. oops wrong thread.

9/9/2010 9:10:14 AM

^^ Thors and I guess you could say psi-storm from the protoss.

No, they cannot burrow up ledges

I am not a pro

9/9/2010 9:25:45 AM

^ Thors and Archons do. No, roaches can't, zerg has no cliff jumper/walker

9/9/2010 9:28:30 AM

really wished that the sc2 maps were a lot more expansive like TA style where it takes 30 mins to get across the map.

9/9/2010 11:08:07 AM

Played a bunch of games this morning. Having the most success going roaches->mutas. Maybe I'm just bad with speedlings but I can never do too much with them.

My biggest issue with zerg seems to be that I always have too much minerals, what should I be spending them on other then zerglings/overlords?

9/9/2010 1:36:06 PM

Tww username: name.character code
Azaka: Azaka.422
BigEgo: ProtisRobit.535
titans78: FLuE.301
Lokken: Lokken.762
JCE2011:AdmiralHaket.306
icyhotpatch: Unity.156
JBaz: JBaz.283
Stimwalt: Stimwalt.306
slackerb: slackerb.591
Doss2k: Doss.357
Doss2k friend: Phoebetor.944
Fry: Lionhart.667
sprocket: sprocket.440

dzags18:zags.414

added mine if anyone wants to play some 2v2s or rape me or anything

9/9/2010 1:38:30 PM

Quote :

"My biggest issue with zerg seems to be that I always have too much minerals, what should I be spending them on other then zerglings/overlords?"

Expand like crazy, just try to take over the map. Even if you lose an expansion you'll have others. With speed roaches/mutas you can easily cover a lot of the map for defense of those expands. Also when they hit an expand that is a great time to have like 24 speed lings to just rush into their base and try to do some damage, try to force them to split their army up for fear of ling/muta harass.

Also it isn't bad to make a few extra queens. Their heal works great, both buildings and units(healing ultras is nice). Plus you can use them for the extra creep expand/larva if needed.

9/9/2010 2:07:42 PM

Any Tww allstars trying to get some 3v3 or 4v4 platinum/diamond? These random teammates make me want to curbstomp my laptop.

9/9/2010 2:09:20 PM

lol, tried to login to my b.net account, apparently it was hacked late last night. they reactivated my wow account and got it suspended. lol

They left their cc info in my account.

9/9/2010 2:43:03 PM

Anybody watch adelscott on day9's daily last night? He has a couple of interesting pvp builds that I might try out. One of them is a 1 gas opening and the other is a slightly modified 2 gate with late gas. He beat huk with both of them.

9/9/2010 2:54:20 PM

So after starting off the day like 2-8 in 1v1 and 5-10 in 2v2 I was able to get both back up to 500 at 11-11 and 10-10. I worked out a lot of my kinks and I have a pretty good build that rushes mutas/roaches. At my level everyone is expecting zergs to rush so I don't get too much early pressure.

9/9/2010 2:56:08 PM

Quote :

"versus that many thors you are going to need to be in ultralisk with upgrades land supported by broodlords."

Ultras aren't the best idea. 250mm cannons will one shot them. It doesn't matter as much if the thor is one shotting lings if there are ~10 attacking each thor. You'll probably want something to back it up. Though (roach/hydra is popular)

Quote :

"I am finding you really need to exploit zerg mobility to win. muta harrass, nydus, ling/bane speed. Dont forget you can retreat back INTO a nydus; your army doesnt have to be sacraficed."

Watch this game to see just how effective nydus worming can be. You can argue that the protoss didn't make the right units later game, but you can still see how the zerg made excellent use of the nydus worm.
MysticPrime V. ChitaPrime
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FVbXyZpsUYA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7m0RuVQ741c&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hn2hu-TZCwk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQ-lKZdyvjQ&feature=related


[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 3:39 PM. Reason : asdfg]

9/9/2010 3:31:36 PM

^^ I watched the one w/ the 1 gas build. Took some great micro to pull it off, typically you'd think HuK's build would beat the build Adel did most of the time. Very entertaining game to watch though.

Now that I sorted out some of the issues for why I was sucking so bad at 2v2 if anyone wants to play some 2s looking for more of a consistent partner. Can't do this random team junk anymore, with the exception of the game that I was screwing around and tried to go fast nuke my partners have cost me so many games this week it is ridiculous. So any diamond level players that would want to play some 2s pretty consistently let me know, shoot me a pm or post here.

9/9/2010 3:47:45 PM

^I'll probably be on tonight if you wanna see if we can get in a proper league. I've got a couple more builds working, and I might have to bring some of my 1v1 aggression in. If we ever get one of the more standard 2v2 maps, I know I can bring hell to the other team that a non-plat/diamond player will not be able to stop.

[Edited on September 9, 2010 at 3:55 PM. Reason : asdfg]

9/9/2010 3:54:45 PM

^ Sounds good should be on later this evening. Got myself back to playing much better in 2s then some of our last games.

Was just playing to slow and methodical like I do in 1v1 and you can't do that in 2v2, micro, unit composition, building placement, etc doesn't matter if the other team just masses and stomps you 2v1.

I do also need to pick a race and quit screwing around with random. Just can't decide... think I'm going to play 10 games with each race and whatever one I do best with stick with.

9/9/2010 5:20:05 PM

^^^ Yeah most of my nydus play is trying to emulate that.

9/9/2010 5:39:40 PM

#1 in my Bronze League 1v1

WOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

9/9/2010 6:39:43 PM

Decent night tonight. Won > Loss. Good enough. Still rank 1 bronze, 3v3 w/ my friends

9/9/2010 9:08:50 PM

^^^^For whatever reason, we played best with you as terran and me as protoss. I wanna see how a korean style 4 gate works in 2v2.

9/9/2010 9:32:13 PM

Words cannot describe how bad these random teammates are in 3v3.

Though perhaps a picture can



[Edited on September 10, 2010 at 10:10 AM. Reason : the pain]

9/10/2010 10:07:01 AM

So I played much much better today. I think I went like 12-2 between some 2v2's and a ton of 1v1s. Currently on a nice 6 in a row streak of 1v1's.

I've figured out the zerg macro and I'm not wasting stores of resources near as much anymore, I still need to get quicker with it. I figured out I should set my hatcheries all to one hotkey and I have each of my queens on their own. Not sure if thats the best way to do it but i've been able to keep the units pumping out like this.

I very very rarely use infestors or banelings. I need to get better at using banelings though as the one thing that really hurts me is a big ball of infantry. I've been able to take out protoss probably 90% of the time, but terran are still rough.

9/10/2010 12:34:03 PM

For zerg I've found the best thing to do is put all my hatcheries on one hotkey and all my queens on another(not all separate) because if you hotkey them all and infuse larva the closest queen to that hatchery will infuse, they won't walk all over.

The trick and if you get good at it can help you in battles is if you hotkey all your queens, while in battle you can click your queen hotkey, click V(hotkey for larva infuse) and then using your minimap you can click the hatchery you want to infuse without having to go back to your base. The key is getting good at accurately clicking your hatchery in the minimap because if you are just a bit off you'll get a message that says "no building" or something like that.

But basically if say I have 3 hatches and 3 queens, I keep my queens on "2" just click 2 then V left click hatch on mini map, 2 - V left click another hatch on mini map etc. and I can get all 3 hatches in a matter of seconds without having to move my screen away from the battle back to my bases. Occasionally you'll get queens walking around all over but as long as you keep the queens near the hatches and they have energy they'll stay with the closest hatch.

9/10/2010 2:23:53 PM

That raises an interesting question, what hot keys do you guys use?

Early game I'll just have my nexus on 4 and my scout probe on 1. After that I lose that scout probe or return it to mining

1 - Unit group 1 (usually zealots or Phoenix)
2 - Unit group 2 (usually stalkers or zealots)
3 - The protoss ball I use to attack
4 - Main nexus
5 - Reserved for expand
6 - Either all gateways/warpgates, or just the initial ones in my main. Later game I might just use W unless I need to get to my warpgates quickly
7 - All Robo Facilities
8 - All Stargates
9 - rarely used, sometimes I'll throw a 3rd expand or forge on it
0 - rarely used, sometimes I'll throw a pylon on it

9/10/2010 3:31:11 PM

I'm still not that comfortable with hotkeys yet. Though I haven't played a ton of games (around 50). Right now I have my hatcheries on 1 and I have my queens on the next few, followed by my attack groups and occasionally a nydus or two if im using them.

On a different note - I played through the campaign using a less then legit copy of the game, but I've reinstalled the full game since purchasing. I was trying to go into the campaign again to replay on Brutal for the achievements but it constantly crashes while trying to load the first mission. Any idea why it might be happening? I was able to do the challenges just fine, but campaign seems to be the issue.

9/10/2010 4:11:38 PM

Did you uninstall completely and then re-install?

I would try deleting your saved SC game files and letting it refresh them when you log in

[Edited on September 10, 2010 at 4:48 PM. Reason : *]

9/10/2010 4:47:33 PM

1 - CC
2 - Rax's
3 - Fact/Starport, whichever I go heavy with
4 - Main army
5 - Harass force - reapers or banshees usually

Rarely ever use more than those, though I probably should

9/10/2010 9:40:48 PM

1 - Melee Units
2 - Ranged
3 - Casters and/or banelings
4 - Hatches
5 - Queen #1
6 - Queen #2
7 - Queen #3
8 - Queen #4
9 - Overseer #1
0 - Overseer #2

9/10/2010 9:42:55 PM

#1 Base Army
#2 Attacking Army

Thats about it probably why I suck

9/10/2010 9:57:52 PM

1- scouting worker then main army later
2- secondary army units (highly mobile units usually)
3- entire army
4- queen's
5- hatcheries


8- scouting overlord
9- scouting overlord
0- scouting overlord

9/10/2010 10:51:20 PM

A couple tricks if you guys are interested for hotkeys that might save you some keys...

1 - I mentioned the queens you don't have to hotkey them all on different keys, just put them all on one, unless you are trying to micro them individually or something. If you put them all on one and larva infuse it will only use the closest they won't all move.

2 - If you put all your buildings on one hotkey(like barracks, factory, starport all on #2) you can just hit tab to cycle through the buildings and make units. That saves you from having to use up to 3 hotkeys or a hotkey for each set of buildings. I find it much easier to just throw all my buildings that create stuff(except my CC, but in theory you could put that with this as well) on one hotkey and just tab through the buildings quickly.

I use 1 for my CC/nexus/hatches, 2 for my buildings, 3-5 are my attacking units because my hand fits very comfortable with my pinky on "A" and my next 3 fingers go on 3-5, and my thumb on spacebar. Anything off scouting will be on "0". So I can just hit 2, tab and I'll be on my factory or robotics. Your tier 1 buildings will always save to the first spot so I know if I hit 2-Tab I'll be on my factory 2-tab-tab on my starports.

Anyway just something I saw a top level player doing with their hotkeys and I find it much easier and it makes it so I never really need to go past #5. When you get the hang of it I think it is much faster.

9/10/2010 10:56:42 PM

I could never put multiple nexuses on one hot key. That would kill my macro.

9/11/2010 12:15:57 AM