^^Thats just a made up lie without even reference. I wonder where it came from...or how its been 8 hours yet none of the democrats on this board have called out a blatant lie about a democratic candidate for president.

[Edited on July 22, 2019 at 6:14 PM. Reason : ^^^she's running as the left's version of trump. not the opposite of him but the alternate Trump]

7/22/2019 6:13:19 PM

I think it’s because no one gives a fuck about her?

7/22/2019 7:09:27 PM

At min she's a "skeptic" and "both sides"er

Quote :

"I do not trust the propaganda on either side"

7/22/2019 7:25:51 PM

George Soros paid me money to ignore lies about Williamson's position on vaccination

[Edited on July 22, 2019 at 8:21 PM. Reason : She's anti vaccination ]

7/22/2019 8:21:05 PM

Its not about "both sides" its about not giving big pharma free reign. You can be pro vaccine and anti-capitalism at the same time. The people who try to smear her on this did the same thing to Stein because they want to protect their dear portfolios.

Are #factsfirst or not? How can you maintain credibility if you're admittedly willy nilly with the truth until the lies actually get in your way. Do you think thats a constructive mentality in this environment?

Quote :

"I think it’s because no one gives a fuck about her?"

OK just bring that same energy the next time people pretend not to understand why Trump supporters overlook his lies.

7/23/2019 1:44:11 AM

Maybe Earl likes Trump because he was anti-vax too?

7/23/2019 10:17:09 AM

maybe he's autistic because he is vaccine injured

7/23/2019 10:27:02 AM

You know, semi unrelated, but I truly have a hard time understanding why someone would pay to be on a forum where everyone constantly shits on you. I mean if it wasn't transparent and you were riling people up, maybe, but to spend time and money to post and have people eager ignore you, call you a trolls or just generally ridicule you, seems strange. A little masochism maybe?

7/23/2019 10:50:56 AM

For the last several years, I've only been exposed to conversations with people in coastal academia and social groups of young people with common interests (local arts, music, social justice) who live in neighborhoods (hip) and take on hobbies (sustainability, nature, local businesses) that all generate strong leftist correlations. My real life is just one big echo chamber and thats not good.


I know it seems toxic to liberals, but its actually a good thing to hear from people who think differently than you. I use internet message boards as a way to keep up with the way people are thinking in middle america. What better place to go than my undergrad message board where there are people, places, and topics I already know AND it happens to be in North Carolina?

First, you have to understand that people with convictions aren't really phased by the fact that there are people out there who hate their ideas and therefore hate them. I already know there is a lot of ideological bigotry but just avoiding it and turtling back into my own echo chamber would be intellectual cowardice. Theres literally dozens of countries that already have systems with the features I want. I could leave the USA but I choose to stay here and try to help improve it. We can't actually fix the country without understanding how other people think and we can't do that without reading what they say.

I have learned things about the demographic on here and gained a lot of insight that other people in my echo chamber don't have. I could describe the conversation from this very thread with some colleagues and they'd be otherwise oblivious. I think my knowledge of all perspectives is worth more than money. There is a sense of elitism amongst all three political groups in this country. Too much time in just your echo chamber leads to the "There has to be something wrong with this person because they don't think like me" and "They have to either be a racist, bigot, troll, masochist, or just dumb/uneducated/ignorant or else they would have my world view" that are so pervasive right now.

I know theres always been a band of users on here who are just obnoxious for the sake of being so and thats is just part of being on the internet. At best, they are ad hominem attacks which is an intellectual capitulation. For each of those types of people, there have been ever more people pm me to express support or let me know that they enjoy my posts or find them thoughtful. Why would I be deterred by people saying mean things over the internet? especially when they already admitted they approve of lies about people they don't care for.

[Edited on July 23, 2019 at 5:58 PM. Reason : imagine that]

7/23/2019 5:46:13 PM

Cool let us know when you finish your tww research paper of the 15 people that post here, would love to read it

7/23/2019 5:57:52 PM

"Even when he was running, I don't think anybody thought he would be as bad as he is," Biden said in an interview published Tuesday in the New York Times Magazine.

7/23/2019 9:53:30 PM

Everyone here is at least 30

7/23/2019 11:09:23 PM

https://www.dailywire.com/news/49818/bernie-sanders-campaign-hit-unfair-labor-practice-amanda-prestigiacomo

7/24/2019 6:04:56 AM

hmmm
https://thehill.com/policy/technology/454746-tulsi-gabbard-sues-google-over-censorship-claims

7/26/2019 4:40:50 PM

she’s a joke

7/26/2019 5:17:10 PM

Quote :

"Yesterday I announced that, as president, I’ll establish a student loan debt forgiveness program for Pell Grant recipients who start a business that operates for three years in disadvantaged communities."

Why are dems aiming so low for signature issues? This to me is asinine at this stage of the campaign.

By the time this goes through the meat grinder of congress it will be nothing.

Meanwhile trump is over there saying “I’m going to give everyone healthcare for cheaper” “I’m going to eliminate the debt in 4 years” “I’m going to ban all Muslims” etc

I’m not sure if the nuanced approach makes sense when campaigning is driven by sound bites and they’re trying to create enthusiasm.

7/28/2019 6:20:06 PM

Quote :

"Remember that Nathan For You episode with the cheap gas (after rebate) where you had to climb a mountain and camp overnight then solve a bunch of riddles and find the deposit box to claim the rebate?"

http://twitter.com/DanRiffle/status/1155485634565271553

7/28/2019 10:26:11 PM

https://mobile.twitter.com/bostondialect/status/1155662964416028673?s=19

7/29/2019 11:44:18 PM

What sort of small business is going to succeed for 3 yrs in a community of poor people?

Kamala wtf...

7/29/2019 11:56:39 PM

Bernie should drop out. it's come out that he said baltimore was like a 3rd world country that's racist af

7/30/2019 6:58:10 AM

Oh, you mean when he visited the community himself, met with residents, discussed problems and offered solutions?

Or do you mean be said it from a mansion while watching TV and tied it to shitting on a black member of congress; and also while his son in law is a slum lord there

Which one?

7/30/2019 7:04:42 AM

Equating these two situations means you’re either dishonest or completely retarded.

Maybe both!

7/30/2019 7:17:38 AM

^
They have to believe their naked emperor is dressed exceptionally well or years of lies they told themselves comes crashing down.

7/30/2019 11:32:37 AM

Warren shitting on Delaney (?) about saying everything is too hard was phenomenal



Jesus christ, I just realized this is schedule to go til 11pm i can't do this again tomorrow.....

[Edited on July 30, 2019 at 10:12 PM. Reason : E]

Oh and "I wrote the damn bill!"

[Edited on July 30, 2019 at 10:24 PM. Reason : E]

7/30/2019 10:06:44 PM

This debate went a little better than the first one since they didn’t have all the audio issues.

They do need to find a way to allocate time better between the candidates though.

7/30/2019 10:26:42 PM

Marianne had a good closing statement actually. Maybe not presidential but necessary to be said.

7/30/2019 10:32:49 PM

She got some good pop with racism some talking points

When they said "closing statements" at 1030 I had a big sigh of relief, these are a total slog.

7/30/2019 10:39:00 PM

Warren and Sanders mopped the floor, Buttigieg stood tall. Everyone else needs to bow out now.

The moderates tried to gang up on the true progressives and lost.

7/30/2019 10:52:02 PM

^

Was boring AF for the most part, but the center stage won handedly.

7/30/2019 11:02:23 PM

Biden struck gold, he gets to bash progressive policies without anyone strong enough to come back at him. Harris certainly won't come to their defense.

7/30/2019 11:26:46 PM

So sick of the leftist Marianne Williamson memes. It isn't or hasn't ever been funny. Evidenced by Ben Shapiro thinking it's funny now.

7/31/2019 6:15:54 AM

The winners seem clear to me, but who do centrists think won the debate?

7/31/2019 7:16:02 AM

Jake Tapper

7/31/2019 8:15:41 AM

i liked when sanders called out tapper and CNN for being shills for healthcare industry ads

Quote :

"So sick of the leftist Marianne Williamson memes. It isn't or hasn't ever been funny."

she told people with HIV to love the virus and think about what they did to deserve it. she thinks cancer is caused by bad thoughts and can be cured by love. now she is making a mockery of our democratic process in order to sell more of her dangerous books.

fuck her and all of her stupid orb gang


[Edited on July 31, 2019 at 8:26 AM. Reason : it]

7/31/2019 8:21:34 AM

^^^ I think I saw that they think that John Delaney won the debate.

7/31/2019 9:48:17 AM

Got called a coward on stage so that checks out

Also lol at Warren when they discuss delaney s wealth
https://twitter.com/HumorlessQueers/status/1156385234566483970?s=19

7/31/2019 10:29:31 AM

Quote :

" they think that John Delaney won the debate."

Well, he was on my list. I'd say the top 4 for me Buttegig, Warren, Delaney, Sanders in that order.

Buttegig really came out and made some great points. I was a little disheartened when he wouldn't directly answer if taxes would rise on the middle class (Warren smiliarly dodged and weaved) for healthcare. But overall, I felt he gave some solid truths about our process, and the people who run it, that needed saying. He also outlined policies and plans that I can support.

Warren, I've liked for a while, due to her actual plans around actual items. But what tempers me on her is that she advocates for her policies by making others boogiemen, e.g. break up Google and Amazon, when a more thoughtful critique would be warranted.

Delaney brought up some good questions based on his actual experience and still provided a universal healthcare option. Some of his rhetoric resonated with me and I actually see as progressive (again universal healthcare) and pragmatic.

Bernie is starting to lose me. I had more appeal for him last time around than this time. I believe it is because my qualms with Warren also apply to him but he shows those traits in greater magnitude.

7/31/2019 11:49:45 AM

oh my god you think delaney made good points

serious question because i can't remember your post history, are you a republican?

[Edited on July 31, 2019 at 12:03 PM. Reason : ?]

7/31/2019 11:59:16 AM

Quote :

"are you a republican?"

lol that is not a serious question. closer to name calling than anything.

and 2 out of his top 4 are warren and sanders. really sounds like a republican to me

7/31/2019 12:05:00 PM

Quote :

"was a little disheartened when he wouldn't directly answer if taxes would rise on the middle class (Warren smiliarly dodged and weaved) for healthcare"

Warren wisely didnt fall into Trappers trap. Whether or not taxes go up in a vacuum is irrelevant, the question should be whether the plan would save money. If you a $1 more in taxes but save $2 on Healthcare, it's silly to boil that down to a middle class tax increase.

7/31/2019 12:08:09 PM

I really don't get how you reconcile supporting Sanders at any level with also liking Delaney.

7/31/2019 12:10:02 PM

^^^i can't remember if they were with grumpygop and duke as a former republican. thinking delaney is pragmatic, having issues with warren and sanders policies,and being mad about the tax raise question not being asked certainly sounds like they could be



[Edited on July 31, 2019 at 12:11 PM. Reason : .]

7/31/2019 12:11:04 PM

Quote :

"having issues with warren and sanders policies"

Sounds like it's their approach he has issues with. Not their policies.

and they're both still in his top 4.

Quote :

"thinking delaney is pragmatic"

If someone thinks delaney is pragmatic that makes then a Republican?? Dude. Try to be serious for once.

7/31/2019 12:16:54 PM

Quote :

"If someone thinks delaney is pragmatic that makes then a Republican?? Dude. Try to be serious for once."

i mean, yeah, delaney used republican talking points all night. at the very least it's certainly inconsistent with someone who actually has warren and sanders in their top 4.

i mean here is the washington examiners take on delaney:
https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/john-delaney-wants-to-be-republicans-favorite-democrat-and-his-party-isnt-having-it

also, the response was in regards to who they thought did best in the debate, so it's maybe not safe to conclude they have warren or sanders among the top 4 candidates they support



[Edited on July 31, 2019 at 12:29 PM. Reason : serious]

7/31/2019 12:21:29 PM

not only was he using republican talking points, he got called out in the moment for using them

7/31/2019 12:29:00 PM

Quote :

" at the very least it's certainly inconsistent with someone who actually has warren and sanders in their top 4."

I can agree with that at least.

7/31/2019 12:30:21 PM

I've considered myself an independent for a long time but have voted for democrats at the federal and state level solidly since 2008, including each midterm (excluding Pat McCroy his first term(. I also prefer a left leaning judiciary.

After the previous debate I wrote this in the thread

Quote :

"Next debate I could take the following, in no particular order: Warren Castro De Blasio Buttegig Harris If we need to add a few others I'd take Bennet, Binden, and Sanders. Mostly to give Bennet a chance and let the other to flounder out. "

I've softened on Biden significantly since then, so I'd actually take him out. I don't have anyone ranked because I believe there is still much to uncover and stack ranking 37 people sounds horrible.

If any of the people I listed earlier on this page, I'd take that as a big win and would feel a lot of the policies I have, especially on social issues and the environment, would be acknowledged. I would expect my taxes to go up, but I recognize that as the cost of doing business and that has never really been a concern with any tax plan I have seen to date.

My issues with the tax question wasn't that I want to hear if my taxes will go up, because, again, I acknowledge that to be likely, but, rather, it was a straight forward question (even though it was a trap for sound bites) that could have delivered the total cost would drop message along side a yes taxes will raise. That is the sort of honesty, steadfastness, and resolve I'm looking for in a candidate. Bernie did a good job of this in his town hall with Fox and the audience responded well.

As synapse said my issues with Bernie and Warren are approaches to their policies and how they demonize things, not their particular policies per se.

I also see less of a distinction between Bernie/Warren and Delaney than I think so others do. His entire message last night was basically "I want the same thing as them, but I have a slightly different approach, which I think will grab more moderates." As a moderate, I find some of his words truthful, because they did grab me. Again, I can support him and Warren/Sanders because I view them as largely wanting the same end goal within the same timespans. It's not as if I am identifying with Hickenlooper or whomever it was that said we'd need to take baby steps over 15 years.

Hope that helps.

7/31/2019 2:01:33 PM

Quote :

"that could have delivered the total cost would drop message along side a yes taxes will raise. That is the sort of honesty, steadfastness, and resolve I'm looking for in a candidate."

I did also wish they had done a better job reframing his questions

7/31/2019 2:34:48 PM

Taxing the wealthy because they are wealthy and earn more money is not being progressive, that's European socialism and believe me, it is an abysmal fetid mess.

I was working as a study leader (one step under department head) in Pharma for three years over there, and my paycheck ended up getting taxed around 55 to 60% due to my income level. I was only taking home about 220 Euros a month more than the guys working in the workshop that didn't even finish high school. Simply put, fuck that. Since when is going after the wealthy a sound, progressive policy?

What about fighting for worker's rights by having every employer, even the likes of retail and gastro, issue out working contracts that define rights such as guaranteed pay for workers that are fired without notice?

What about mandating that power and utility companies have to give you a written notice on your door before cutting off the utilities?

And why are people just sweeping child leave and job security for pregnant women under the rug and ignoring it? Women should be guaranteed to maintain their position and pay level after childbirth, and both men and women should get paid child leave.

Why and the fuck are the dems ignoring these topics, and still just obsessing over taxing the rich? What happened to actual progressive policies?

[Edited on July 31, 2019 at 2:58 PM. Reason : k]

7/31/2019 2:55:50 PM

It probably has something to do with the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017.

7/31/2019 3:03:20 PM