Quote :

"which is why I'm going to call you a partisan hack now"

oh noo please don't

10/15/2008 10:46:16 PM

Yogi quit TSBing up this thread

the debate threads are kind of like ncsu football and basketball threads

[Edited on October 15, 2008 at 10:46 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2008 10:46:42 PM

Quote :

"However when it came to Ayers/Acorn, Healthcare and the creepy cackle at the end McCain dropped it a little. I still think I'm going to vote Obama. "

Just ask yourself if you would want the gov't in total control of the democrats. Do you want every federal issue in the next 4 years decided by Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barack Obama?

With total control of the gov't, do you really think the democrats would lower anyone's taxes?

With total control of the gov't, do you think the democrats will curb their most famous tendency..to spend, spend, spend.

Do you really want your wealth spread around?

10/15/2008 10:48:28 PM

I'm going to do something that I normally don't do.

McCain won this debate.

However, he looked like a total asshole the entire time, so I think he won't gain much more support.

10/15/2008 10:48:32 PM

Quote :

"it actually allowed them to talk more and get off talking points."

Did you listen to McCain?

Quote :

"the debate threads are kind of like ncsu football and basketball threads"

? Not sure what you mean.

10/15/2008 10:48:48 PM

Since this is more of a chit chat thread would I be out of line saying I want to do the first chick they interviewed in Columbus on CNN?

10/15/2008 10:49:11 PM

10/15/2008 10:49:16 PM

Quote :

" Just ask yourself if you would want the gov't in total control of the democrats. Do you want every federal issue in the next 4 years decided by Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barack Obama? With total control of the gov't, do you really think the democrats would lower anyone's taxes? With total control of the gov't, do you think the democrats will curb their most famous tendency..to spend, spend, spend. Do you really want your wealth spread around?"

this is a good point and one that i wished mccain would have made. this would have resonated with undecideds a ton i believe. imagine the spending people, imagine the spending. and there will be NO TAX CUTS. just look at the entire course of us history. taxes will not go down.

10/15/2008 10:50:39 PM

Quote :

"With total control of the gov't, do you really think the democrats would lower anyone's taxes? With total control of the gov't, do you think the democrats will curb their most famous tendency..to spend, spend, spend. Do you really want your wealth spread around?"

Again, how do we pay for all this spending we are doing? I know they caved and voted for the legislation, but somehow, I don't see an Obama administration forcing FISA down our throats and making it political suicide (by using the media propaganda machine) for members of congress to vote against such legislation. I'll trade higher taxes and a new way to think about healthcare if thats the only new "big government" we get in the next 4 years. And if it means a new way to think about energy and gaining back all the international sway we lost under this shitty administration, then we as a country win. Period.

10/15/2008 10:52:22 PM

^our country was not founded upon a big government. and at least you are admitting that with obama and pelosi taxes will not go down.

10/15/2008 10:54:36 PM

10/15/2008 10:54:40 PM

obama was so full of shit when he said 100% of mccain's ads were negative

nbc just pwnt obama

[Edited on October 15, 2008 at 10:55 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2008 10:55:07 PM

The Short:

None of this really changed anything.

The Long:

I feel like one way to look at this is a win for Obama, because McCain spent more time trying to show people why they shouldn't vote for Obama rather than show people why they should vote for him. Maybe that's just an easier strategy for his campaign to pursue, but in the end it just screams that there isn't much substance in McCain's campaign to begin with. Obama sat there, stayed calm under fire, played decent defense, and continued to illuminate points in his campaign that people are likely to identify with and vote for.

One other way to look at the debate is a wash for both candidates. McCain came out for the first time with a set of balls and a bone to pick and Obama didn't step in to meet him with the same fervor. However, as the debate went on, McCain lost some of his fire, focused on his base rather than seek out the undecided, and looked completely contemptuous.

A third way to look at this is a victory for both, because they both accomplished the goals specific to their individual campaigns. They both pushed the party line. Obama stayed poised, McCain got aggressive, both something their campaigns wanted to see. McCain got to finally say he wasn't president Bush, something he's been fighting. Obama got to speak to allegations of being a terrorist associate, something he's been fighting.

10/15/2008 11:01:54 PM

Quote :

"McCain spent more time trying to show people why they shouldn't vote for Obama rather than show people why they should vote for him"

thats politics nowadays

10/15/2008 11:03:01 PM

He is full of shit on his healthcare plan too.

He kepts saying you can keep what plan you have now.. OR you can take the cheaper and more benefits govt plan that is tax payer subsidized.. Wonder what that will do to insurance companies.

Also mccain missed a chance AGAIN to give obama a math lesson on how taxes and tax credits work when he tries to mislead people about taxing healthcare benefits.

10/15/2008 11:04:07 PM

Quote :

"I'll trade higher taxes and a new way to think about healthcare if thats the only new "big government" "

Do you think that will be the only "big government" you will get with democrats? Gov't never knows when to stop, because power corrupts. You accept higher taxes, but will also get more runaway centralized gov't.

10/15/2008 11:04:10 PM

Hahahahaha, CNN snap poll:

Obama - 58%
McCain - 31%

Quote :

"Congratulations President Obama"

10/15/2008 11:04:44 PM

Quote :

"thats politics nowadays"

sadly

10/15/2008 11:04:45 PM

and that has practically been Obama's entire platform: 8 years of failed dubya policies, and mccain and dubya both have an "r" beside their names

10/15/2008 11:05:10 PM

Quote :

"Just ask yourself if you would want the gov't in total control of the democrats. Do you want every federal issue in the next 4 years decided by Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid and Barack Obama? With total control of the gov't, do you really think the democrats would lower anyone's taxes? With total control of the gov't, do you think the democrats will curb their most famous tendency..to spend, spend, spend. Do you really want your wealth spread around?"

Absolutely not! I am a registered republican (though I lean libertarian), I just can't support McCain and his NeoCon views. The party has gone down the shitter and the only way I can see republicans getting back to their roots and the basics of small government is to lose and lose hard. Then in 4 years they can throw up a better candidate against President Obama.

10/15/2008 11:06:20 PM

McCain cleaned Obama's clock in this one. Anybody who says different didn't watch the same debate I did.

10/15/2008 11:07:25 PM

^

10/15/2008 11:08:10 PM

Quote :

"Then in 4 years they can throw up a better candidate against President Obama."

Heres how its gonna go down. Obama is gonna win in 2008. Dems are gonna pick up some seats in congress. Their policies are going to waste a ton of money and suck a load of dicks. Republicans will gain back congress. fucking nothing will get done. This will cause the economy to right itself. Obama will get credit and get another term in 2012.

10/15/2008 11:10:13 PM

whew, thank goodness for that CNN poll. Cause that is obviously the truth

10/15/2008 11:10:27 PM

yes aaronburro. I'm sure you are correct. CNN, who actually polled people, is wrong.

You, aaronburro, are a more accurate depiction of what America thinks.



[Edited on October 15, 2008 at 11:13 PM. Reason : asdf]

10/15/2008 11:13:00 PM

I'm sorry, but if you watched that debate and said that Obama won, then you are a fucking moron. I happily admit that Obama won the previous debates, but in no way did he win this one. And no amount of CNN polling is going to change that fact.

10/15/2008 11:14:47 PM

someone post the Drudgereport poll... bc that is equally trustworthy.

10/15/2008 11:15:47 PM

Quote :

"Heres how its gonna go down. Obama is gonna win in 2008. Dems are gonna pick up some seats in congress. Their policies are going to waste a ton of money and suck a load of dicks. Republicans will gain back congress. fucking nothing will get done. This will cause the economy to right itself. Obama will get credit and get another term in 2012."

I hope so, maybe get the Republican party back on the right track instead of the shitty party they have become the past decade.

10/15/2008 11:17:44 PM

Quote :

"I'm sorry, but if you watched that debate and said that Obama won, then you are a fucking moron. I happily admit that Obama won the previous debates, but in no way did he win this one. And no amount of CNN polling is going to change that factopinion."

A correct argument can be made on any outcome of this debate.

10/15/2008 11:19:23 PM

I agree, but once you get govt control of everyones healthcare it will be hard to take it away. That is my biggest fear.

Im still hoping mccain wins bc he wont go universal health and he will untie employment with health ins and he is talking about cutting spending.

I really feel he wont seek a second term either.. so that gives us hope in 2012 for a real conservative(fiscal)

10/15/2008 11:20:50 PM

Quote :

"the shitty party they have become the past decade"

yall must not have heard when mccain pointed out the fact that he literally isnt george bush

10/15/2008 11:22:18 PM

McCain seemed so angry. It was troubling watching him.

10/15/2008 11:23:20 PM

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/15/politics/horserace/entry4525171.shtml?tag=centerColumn;centerColumnContent

Quote :

"Fifty-three percent of the uncommitted voters surveyed identified Democratic nominee Barack Obama as the winner of tonight's debate. Twenty-two percent said Republican rival John McCain won. Twenty-five percent saw the debate as a draw."

10/15/2008 11:25:51 PM

Oh give the government health care thing a break. Over 100 million Americans are on either Medicare or Medicaid, so obviously private insurance is really looking out for the needy already right?

The best thing we can do to solve this fiscal crisis is address the staggering rising costs of medical treatment and education. John McCain would rather just talk about how "we don't know the real Barack Obama" and how we'll just freeze spending across the board in order to solve the fiscal problems we face.

So is it anti-American for all you Republicans to be pulling for all these bad times in an Obama presidency just to win back the WH in 2012? Because it sure does sound like it. Damn shame.

10/15/2008 11:27:59 PM

^ that's funny, cause McCain was the only one tonight who said that we need to address the staggering rise in cost of healthcare.

and that 100million people are on the public dole is not indicative of the failure of the private insurance market. it's indicative of the failure of government to get it right in the first place, namely that government has driven the cost of healthcare up so drastically that millions are unable to afford it on their own. That and the fact that SS has effectively neutered the public's ability to pay for its own retirement, because it expected the government to do it for them.

[Edited on October 15, 2008 at 11:32 PM. Reason : ]

10/15/2008 11:30:59 PM

Quote :

"So is it anti-American for all you Republicans to be pulling for all these bad times in an Obama presidency just to win back the WH in 2012? Because it sure does sound like it. Damn shame. "

Wow, kinda like dems for the last 8 yrs? How many times have we "lost the war" now?


haha, funny you mention medicare. Remind me how much longer that is fiscally sound?

by 2050 medicare and SS will be 75% of our budget.

rogue, do you realize that the govt hold much of the blame for those rising costs in healthcare? When they basically mandated HMOs which basically shifted the business model of private practices away from a free market model.

Great point burro. Just another, I dont have to worry about that... the gubment gots me covered. I dont have to take care of that myself, they got a program to handle that.

Ever wonder why I call liberalism delayed adulthood?

[Edited on October 15, 2008 at 11:37 PM. Reason : .]

[Edited on October 15, 2008 at 11:39 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2008 11:35:36 PM

SURPRISE PROSTATE EXAM

10/15/2008 11:38:02 PM

my favorite part was where Obama talked about the 500bil deficit this year and blamed it on dubya, much of which was due to the stimulus package, especially when he tried to compare it to the 130bil deficits prior. I'm like "ummm, seems like these plans YOU SUPPORTED led to those deficits, durrr"

10/15/2008 11:38:23 PM

Am I the only one here who noticed that Obama was red in the face for about a third of the debate? In addition, he had this dumb look on his face a lot of the time like McCain had kicked his dog or something.

http://debates.org/

10/15/2008 11:45:38 PM

Quote :

"Am I the only one here who noticed that Obama was red in the face for about a third of the debate?"

Yes, because you are the only one here who hates Obama and everything he stands for more than McCain.

10/15/2008 11:50:01 PM

Quote :

"So is it anti-American for all you Republicans to be pulling for all these bad times in an Obama presidency just to win back the WH in 2012? Because it sure does sound like it. Damn shame."

its a guarantee his policies will fail. they're retarded. Im not saying that past 8 years haven't been retarded either. What I am saying is the best thing we can hope for in our federal government at this stage is that the president and the congress completely cancel each other out. If you look back at a republican congress and republican presidency and then think a dem congress and dem presidency isn't as dangerous you're a moron and you deserve your shitty government.


Using medicare as an example is fucking laffo considering the huge ammount of waste that goes into it.

Employer provided healthcare is fucking stupid and it needs to end. Mccain's policy is not how i'd do it though. The goal should be to provide transparency to the consumer so they can see exactly how much its going to cost and where that stuff goes to. Limit insurance to catostrophic problems only and allow them to charge more based on risk.

You smoke? You're fat? You get a higher premium? You eat right? you exercise? you pay for regular exams out of your own pocket? your premium gets lower.

The one fucking place where prices have continued to drop is car insurance. And its because they're allowed to use a risk based pricing system and to operate between states.

If consumers have to pay for this stuff themselves they'll be more careful with their own health to save money, and they'll shop arround for the best prices and the best care. Increased competition = lower costs. The current plan of status quo + taxes to pick up the rest doesn't fix the problem.

10/15/2008 11:51:41 PM

how dare you question hooksaw. He is an independent paederast.

10/15/2008 11:52:14 PM

look its the drunk troll, begging to get suspended

10/15/2008 11:53:49 PM

Quote :

"CBS poll of undecided voters: Who won the debate? McCain (R) 22 Obama (D) 53"

Quote :

"CNN poll of voters who watched debate: Who won the debate? McCain (R) 31 Obama (D) 58"

10/15/2008 11:56:17 PM

Quote :

"obama was so full of shit when he said 100% of mccain's ads were negative"

I can only imagine that he was referring to a point I think in the couple weeks, where at a snapshot of time time, 100% of the active McCain ads were negative, and something like 31% of Obama's ads were negative.
http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/10/mccain_campaigns_ad_spending_n.php
http://marcambinder.theatlantic.com/archives/2008/10/ad_spending_update_mccains_100.php

Quote :

"According to the latest figures from Ken Goldstein and the Wisconsin Advertising Project, the presidential campaigns are spending nearly $29 million a week to persuade YOU on television that the other guy is bad. All of McCain's advertising is of the contrast or negative variety; about a third of Obama's is. In total, the Obama campaign is spending roughly six million more dollars per week than the McCain campaign and the Republican National Committee, which share the cost of advertisements."

I can't imagine that Obama would pull a number out of his ass like "all of McCain's ads though this entire election" have been negative.... I would chalk that up to a mis-statement, and NBC should have been smart enough to catch that. That it was a misstatement, not a ballsy lie

10/15/2008 11:56:25 PM

^^^The only reason you're still here is because of the incredibly laissez-faire moderators.

[Edited on October 15, 2008 at 11:57 PM. Reason : .]

10/15/2008 11:57:20 PM

^^how come its always a convenient "misstatement" when obama tells a lie? or maybe you know more than NBC...

^no you're just too much of a dumb ass straight D-ticket voter to not realize that I don't do anything that anybody else doesn't do in TSB...you just notice it because it happens to offend your lover Obama

besides, the newest rules of TSB, which I know of well since I've been suspended for them, say that you can feel free to talk shit to someone, IF you also make a point relevant to the thread

going into every thread and calling hooksaw a paederast doesnt have shit to do with the thread...its blatant, personal attack trolling...if the laissez-faire moderators were truly just, he would already be suspended for trolling...but thanks for trying

[Edited on October 16, 2008 at 12:00 AM. Reason : .]

10/15/2008 11:57:38 PM

I agree shaggy. I think its lost though. People are no longer considering themselves responsible for themselves. Instead its up to govt to handle this stuff.

Look at how much negativity is being thrown at mccain for giving individuals the choice to pick thier own insurance.

I love the idea of HSAs with catastrophic policy. I would also love to see govt get completely out of healthcare and let charities handle it. Obama points out the cost will be lower bc more people are buying it with his govt plan. Well without a GOVT plan, more people would be buying private ins. which would lower costs without using taxpayer dollars.

10/15/2008 11:59:31 PM

Quote :

"I think McCain did a better job tonight. I mean, he looked like a total dick doing it, and he won't convince anyone, but still."

agreed

10/16/2008 12:06:29 AM

set'm up

10/16/2008 12:13:27 AM