yea...its looking like it will go down weds

then again i said that about tuesday

10/26/2005 12:26:15 AM

yeah...everything i have heard is saying that its going to hit the fan tomorrow....i hope it does just so all the specualtion will stop

10/26/2005 12:49:13 AM

it would be better for the administration if it does happen...the longer it draws out the worse

10/26/2005 12:50:28 AM

^^ dude, all the hsit hitting the fan today will just cause more speculation, because all this means is indictments.

there's still the court cases, etc

10/26/2005 7:08:00 AM

neighbors: plame's identity WAS NOT known before leak

Quote :

"Critics of the leak investigation have argued that it was an open secret that Plame worked for the CIA; if many people knew that she worked for the agency, it would make prosecution under the 1982 law protecting covert agents impossible. But neighbors contacted by The Times said they told the FBI agents that they had no idea of her agency life, and that they knew her only as a mother of twins who worked as an energy consultant. The agents "made it clear they were part of the Fitzgerald investigation, and they were basically tying up loose ends," said David Tillotson, a Washington lawyer and neighbor, who was among those interviewed Monday. "They really only had one interest, and that was to know whether Valerie's identity, on what she did for a living, was known prior to the Novak article. It seemed they were trying to establish clearly that prior to the Novak article she was not widely known on the cocktail circuit," Tillotson said. "And I pointed out, we were good friends, we socialized with them, and we just had no idea" until her status was made public in the Novak column, Tillotson said. "To that moment, we had no idea whatsoever that Valerie did anything for the government." Some people familiar with national security investigations said they found this week's questioning to be curious at a time when Fitzgerald appeared to be wrapping up his investigation. They said establishing her covert status should have been a priority at the outset of the case; if her employer was already well known, the prosecutor would not have a case to bring under the agent-protection law. But others said they suspected that Fitzgerald was just being meticulous, and that he had previously made a judgment about her status and was, in an abundance of caution, looking to further corroborate that belief. The questioning seemed "confirmatory," said one person who was interviewed but who declined to be identified. Some neighbors said they had been interviewed previously by the FBI. "They basically asked me if I knew what she did prior to the leak," said Marc Lefkowitz, another neighbor. The answer, he said, was an unambiguous "no." "I knew he was a former ambassador. We had dinner at their house," Lefkowitz said. "She was just a normal mother of twins.""

http://www.markarkleiman.com/archives/valerie_plame_/2005/10/rove_back_in_the_gunsights_neighbors_knew_nothing_of_plames_cia_job.php

my my, karl, what ever are we going to do with you?

here's a cheat sheet of all the lies being told
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/arianna-huffington/plamegate-worse-than-wat_b_9522.html

MERRY FITZMAS, EVERY ONE!
http://www.crooksandliars.com/2005/10/25.html#a5555
LET IT SNOW, LET IT SNOW, LET IT SNOW

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 8:48 AM. Reason : .]

10/26/2005 8:36:23 AM

Quote :

"The key to finding out who outed deep cover CIA agent Valerie Plame has always been the motive. Why would anyone in the U.S. government deliberately expose the identity of an agent working in the vitally important realm of nuclear proliferation – identifying not only Ms. Plame, but also her co-workers at "Brewster Jennings and Associates," the CIA front company whose real function was to scour the world for evidence of rogue nukes and other weapons of mass destruction? In busting up the Agency's operations designed to prevent the spread of WMD, whoever outed Plame was taking a very big risk – but why? In investigating what led to the outing of Valerie Plame, Fitzgerald discovered that a fraud had been perpetrated on the American people and the Congress of the United States. In detailing the case for war, the administration based much of its argument that Saddam was close to acquiring nuclear weapons on a cache of documents that purported to show an agreement between Iraq and the African nation of Niger to purchase "yellowcake" uranium. The president referred to this, albeit obliquely, in his 2003 State of the Union address. A few weeks after that speech was delivered, however, the White House was forced to retract its statement – because the documents turned out to be forgeries. Now we discover – and Fitzgerald no doubt knows more about this than anyone – that it wasn't an error, another dreaded "intelligence failure," that had allowed the Niger uranium forgeries to be marshaled along with similarly bogus intelligence as "evidence" of Iraqi WMD; it was a deliberate act of deception, carried out at the highest levels of the U.S. government. A series of articles in La Repubblica exposes the provenance of the documents, shows how they were funneled to U.S. policymakers, and maps their course all the way up to the White House. Go here for an English translation of the first installment. Here is the Italian version of Part II, and here is the translated version. Authors Carlo Bonini and Giuseppe d'Avanzo describe how SISMI, the Italian intelligence agency, was a party to faking the documents. Italian Prime Minister Berlusconi was keen to put SISMI at America's disposal in the aftermath of the 9/11 terrorist attacks, and SISMI's chief, Nicolo Pollari, was eager to make himself – and Italy – indispensable to the warlords of Washington. Pollari's initial attempts to pass off the Niger uranium forgeries as authentic evidence of Iraq's nuclear ambitions did not, however, meet with success. Whereupon Pollari took advantage of the developing split between the State Department-CIA professionals, who tended to be skeptical, and the Cheney-Pentagon-neocon ideologues, who were looking for any evidence – however dubious –of Iraq's WMD, and the Italians developed a strategy to legitimize the forgeries in the eyes of the White House. The Italian strategy was to enter the factional conflict on the side of the Cheney-ites. As a liaison to those circles, Defense Minister Antonio Martino recommended "an old friend of Italy," one Michael Ledeen – neoconservative ideologue and veteran of "parallel intelligence" work from his days as broker of the Iran-Contra "arms for hostages" deal. Just as Ledeen acted as the middleman in effecting the transfer of Israeli arms to Iran in exchange for the hostages, so he apparently played a similar role as a go-between in Niger-gate. Using Ledeen as their Washington intermediary, the Italians succeeded in circumventing the CIA and getting the unvetted forgeries to the White House via the good offices of both Condoleezza Rice and the Pentagon's Office of Special Plans."

http://antiwar.com/justin/

10/26/2005 9:44:36 AM

Twas the night before Fitzmas, and in the White House
Every one was scared shitless, and Bush was quite soused
The indictments were hanging like Damoceles' sword
As verminous oxen prepared to be gored

The perps were all sleepless, curled fetal in bed
While visions of prison cells loomed in each head
And Dick in his jammies, and George in his lap
Were sweating and swearing and looking like crap

When out on the web there arose such a clatter
The blogs and the forums were buzzing with chatter
Away to the PC Rove ran like a flash
He booted his browser and cleared out his cache

The rumors that flew through the cold autumn air
Made Dubya shiver with angry despair
When what to his horror-filled eyes did he spy?
A bespectacled man with a brown suit and tie!

With an impartial manner that gave Bush the shits
He knew in a moment it must be St. Fitz!
With unwavering voice, his indictments they came
He cleared out his throat and he called them by name:

Now Scooter, Now Libby,
Now Blossoming Turd,
Now Cheney, dear Cheney,
Yes, you are the third
To the bench of the court
Up the steps, down the hall
Now come along, come along,
Come along, all!

He then became silent, and went right to work
He filed the indictments and turned with a jerk
And pointing his finger at justice's scale
Said, "The people be served, and let fairness prevail."

He then left the room, to his team gave a nod
And the sound could be heard of a crumbling facade
And we all did exclaim, as he faded from sight
"Merry Fitzmas to all, and to all a good night!"

here's an even better one - with photos!
http://www.thepoorman.net/2005/10/26/keyboard-kommando-komix-presents-2/



[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 9:57 AM. Reason : m]

10/26/2005 9:54:34 AM

Quote :

"Special Prosecutor Patrick J. Fitzgerald has asked the grand jury investigating the outing of CIA operative Valerie Plame Wilson to indict Vice President Dick Cheney’s chief of staff I. Lewis “Scooter” Libby and Bush’s Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove on charges of perjury and obstruction of justice, lawyers close to the investigation tell RAW STORY. ... Two other officials, who are not employees in the White House, are also expected to face indictments, the lawyers said. The grand jury had not yet decided on whether to make indictments at the time this article was published. It appears more likely that the jury would hand down indictments of perjury and obstruction than a charge that Plame was outed illegally. "

http://rawstory.com/news/2005/Prosecutor_in_leak_case_seeks_indictments_1026.html

Those close to the investigation said Rove was offered a deal Tuesday to plead guilty to perjury for a reduced charge. Rove’s lawyer was told that Fitzgerald would drop an obstruction of justice charge if his client agreed not to contest allegations of perjury, they said.

Rove declined to plead guilty to the reduced charge, the sources said, indicating through his attorney Robert Luskin that he intended to fight the charges. A call placed to Luskin was not returned.

but

Quote :

"WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The federal grand jury investigating the leak of a CIA operative's identity could hand up charges as early as today, but Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald is not expected to make any public announcements Wednesday, one source with knowledge of the probe told CNN."

that obviously hasn't stopped some investigative reporters from letting us know what's up

Quote :

"Two top White House aides are expected to be indicted today on various charges related to the probe of CIA operative Valerie Plame whose classified identity was publicly breached in retaliation after her husband, Joe Wilson, challenged the administration's claim that Saddam Hussein had sought to buy enriched uranium from Niger, acording to federal law enforcement and senior U.S. intelligence officials. If no action is taken today, it will take place on Friday, these sources said. I. Scooter Libby, the chief of staff of Vice President Richard Cheney, and chief presidential advisor Karl Rove are expected to be named in indictments this morning by Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald. Others are to be named as well, these sources said. According to U.S. officials close to the case, a bill of indictment has been in existence before October 17 which named five people. Various names have surfaced such as National Security Advisor Stephen Hadley, yet only one source would confirm that Hadley was on the list. Hadley could not be reached for comment. But letters from Fitzgerald, notifying various White House officiials that they are targets of the investigation, went out late last week, a former senior U.S. intelligence official said. Most press accounts emphasized that Fitzgerald was likely to concentrate on attempts by Libby, Rove and others to cover up wrongdoing by means of perjury before the grand jury, lying to federal officials, conspiring to obstruct justice, etc. But federal law enforcement officials told this reporter that Fitzgerald was likely to charge the people indicted with violating Joe Wilson's civil rights, smearing his name in an attempt to destroy his ability to earn a living in Washington as a consultant. "

http://www2.boomantribune.com/story/2005/10/26/105036/84

[Edited on October 26, 2005 at 1:36 PM. Reason : k]

10/26/2005 1:19:35 PM

Quote :

" From Richard Sale, longtime UPI intelligence correspondent: An hour ago I was contacted by a U.S. government official close to the Fitzgerald case. This person told me that there WILL be indictments announced later this afternoon, and the Special Prosecutor will hold a press conference tomorrow. Richard Sale "

http://www2.boomantribune.com/

[/grain of salt]

10/26/2005 3:41:55 PM

^ grand jury adjourned for the day

10/26/2005 6:40:15 PM

10/26/2005 10:35:53 PM

Quote :

"there should be an investigation into the leaks of this investigation"

-sean hannity


outraged! at these leaks.

no need for a comment here/

10/27/2005 12:25:02 AM

Quote :

"Hotline says Time Magazine’s Mike Allen “has some of the best sources in Washington.” Here’s what he had to say about the leak scandal tonight on Hardball: MIKE ALLEN: A lot of activity happening that we’re not seeing. A likely scenario for what happened today, Patrick Fitzgerald got some indictments from this grand jury. He is now able to go to the… CHRIS MATTHEWS: You think they’re sealed right now? MIKE ALLEN: Very possible. What I’m told is typically, in a case like this, he could get the indictments and now he can go to the targets and say, you can plead to these or I’ll go back Friday and get more. You have 12 to 24 hours to think about it. CHRIS MATTHEWS: And he can give them a little Whitman Sampler of suggestions pleading to the charge of obstruction or perjury or… MIKE ALLEN: I can add a bunch of counts. You can take a couple of counts or we can do a bunch more. Later on Olbermann, The Washington Post’s Jim VanDeHei (who also has “some of the best sources in Washington”) assures us the wait is almost over: “I do not think we’ll see any extension of this grand jury. We will know on Friday what’s going to happen here.”"

http://thinkprogress.org/2005/10/26/allen-fitzgerald/

10/27/2005 8:50:21 AM

hahah a Whitman Sampler of suggestions

That Chris Matthews...

10/27/2005 9:15:30 AM

Quote :

"THIS JUST IN! Fafblog of course is not just your number one world's only source for Fafblog. It is also your number one source for Important Breaking News! In this Important Breaking News Post we will be breaking news so fast it will happen faster than the speed of reality! Remember, these items may never happen but you read them here first! ITEM! A super-secret source tells us that Patrick Fitzgerald will indict people today - in fact he will indict between none and fifty-seven suspects on charges which could range from Standing With Intent To Loiter to Genocide With a Loaded Meteor. UPDATE! An even more super-secret source tells us that Dick Cheney will resign and be replaced, most likely by McCheese! Mayor McCheese is widely respected in Republican circles for his strong fiscal conservatism and his tough-on-hamburgling record. But how will this affect the Mayor's 2008 presidential prospects? Will this be seen as a concession to the powerful Fat Lobby? Stay with us, there is more to come! UPDATE! Sources from the future have just emailed us with the news that President Bush will also resign and immediately appoint a more popular replacement in a cunning ploy to salvage his approval ratings! The new president: a newly-grown genetic hybrid of Santa Claus and Jesus. Your Fafblog insta-nalaysis!: Santa-Jesus has very high positives with a broad segment of Americans. But will his clone status hurt him with the Christian right? UPDATE! Super-duper-ultra-secret sources from the inner brain of God have told us that the Santa-Jesus hybrid will devour Vice President McCheese in a televised feeding frenzy! This will spark a new federal investigation to determine whether a crime has been committed, and if so whether it was committed by the Santa half attempting to satiate his uncontrollable gluttonous urges, or the Jesus half in an attempt to atone for the sins of all McDonaldland. QUESTION: how does this fit into Karl Rove's master plan! UPDATE! We have just been informed that Mayor McCheese is not an actual mayor but in fact a corporate mascot, and that Santa-Jesus is ineligible for the presidency on accounta bein grown in Korea. Other than that everything else oughtta check out just fine."

http://fafblog.blogspot.com/2005/10/this-just-in-fafblog-of-course-is-not_26.html

10/27/2005 10:04:50 AM

Quote :

"An even more super-secret source tells us that Dick Cheney will resign and be replaced, most likely by McCheese! Mayor McCheese is widely respected in Republican circles for his strong fiscal conservatism and his tough-on-hamburgling record."

LMAO

10/27/2005 10:15:26 AM

CNN just reported that Fitzgerald's office reports no public announcements today.

I guess that just means that fitzmas has to be tomorrow

10/27/2005 10:18:57 AM

hahaha that guy is like yeah it's tomorrow and then tomorrow comes and he's all "GOTCHA BITCH, oh it's tomorrow"

10/27/2005 10:21:34 AM

but the grand jury expires tomorrow, so it has to be tomorrow

10/27/2005 10:23:32 AM

Quote :

"Special Prosecutor Patrick Fitzgerald is focusing his investigation into the leak of a CIA operative's identity on whether White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove committed perjury, two lawyers involved in the case told CNN. Fitzgerald is expected to announce Friday the results of his investigation and whether he has come up with indictments, a source said. The source said Fitzgerald summarized his case before the grand jury Wednesday and met with the U.S. District Court's chief justice afterward for about 45 minutes. "

http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/27/cia.leak/index.html

10/27/2005 3:18:20 PM

Still waiting...

Of course, if anybody is indicted that doesn't mean that they are guilty even though I'm sure it will be spun that way.

10/27/2005 9:28:28 PM

Whereas you, on the other hand, will assume he's innocent.

10/27/2005 9:37:32 PM

I haven't seen anything to prove his or anyone else's guilt, other than innuendo and flat out lies.

Besides, I thought that our system was all about being innocent until proven guilty, or is that only in cases that do not involve Republicans?

10/27/2005 9:42:40 PM

1) Was Clinton convicted in a court of law?
2) stfukkkthnxbye

10/27/2005 10:51:55 PM

Quote :

"Karl Rove, President Bush's senior adviser and deputy chief of staff, will not be charged on Friday, but will remain under investigation"

http://nytimes.com/2005/10/28/politics/28leak.html?ei=5094&en=f4b9e5edc0a35fdf&hp=&ex=1130472000&partner=homepage&pagewanted=print

10/27/2005 10:55:11 PM

Yeah, Fitzgerald is going to ask for an extension.

10/27/2005 10:59:43 PM

Quote :

"WASHINGTON, Oct. 27 - Lawyers in the C.I.A. leak case said Thursday that they expected I. Lewis Libby Jr., Vice President Dick Cheney's chief of staff, to be indicted on Friday, charged with making false statements to the grand jury. Karl Rove, President Bush's senior adviser and deputy chief of staff, will not be charged on Friday, but will remain under investigation, people briefed officially about the case said. As a result, they said, the special counsel in the case, Patrick J. Fitzgerald, was likely to extend the term of the federal grand jury beyond its scheduled expiration on Friday. As rumors coursed through the capital, Mr. Fitzgerald gave no public signal of how he intended to proceed, further intensifying the anxiety that has gripped the White House and left partisans on both sides of the political aisle holding their breath."

yeah, so WILL he ask for an extension? because yesterday they said he won't.

I'm not going to believe anything 'till I see the reports. that's all we can really do.

10/27/2005 11:26:51 PM

speaking of indictments

Quote :

"The U.S. Attorney's office has indicted Tom Noe, the former Maumee coin dealer suspected of laundering money into President Bush's reelection campaign, Mr. Noe's attorney told The Blade today."

does the fun ever stop???

http://toledoblade.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051027/BREAKINGNEWS/51027023

Someone start a "perpetual gop indictments" Thread, plz

Quote :

" Former Gov. Don Siegelman and former HealthSouth Chief Executive Officer Richard Scrushy have been indicted along with two ranking officials in Siegelman's administration in a case involving federal charges of bribery, extortion and racketeering. The 30-count indictment, filed Wednesday in federal court in Montgomery at the end of a lengthy grand jury investigation, charges that Siegelman and his former chief of staff, Paul Hamrick, "established a criminal enterprise in which official actions were exchanged for bribes." [...] In a statement, Siegelman's opponent for the Democratic nomination for governor, Lt. Gov. Lucy Baxley, said, "This is a very sad day for Alabama because our people want truth and honesty in government.""

http://www.al.com/news/huntsvilletimes/index.ssf?/base/news/113040478968060.xml&coll=1

actually, make that a "government leader indictments" thread. clean and fair government isn't a partisan issue.

[Edited on October 27, 2005 at 11:36 PM. Reason : .]

10/27/2005 11:34:20 PM

Quote :

"Someone start a "perpetual gop indictments" Thread, plz"

I've had one going for almost a year now.

http://thewolfweb.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=261057

10/27/2005 11:42:53 PM

that doesn't really count, though. It's just about republicans being "scumbags," which is too much of a generalization. there are some great republicans out there

10/27/2005 11:46:55 PM

Well...I've documented the crimes and scumminess of many of them.

10/28/2005 12:06:05 AM

i think pryderi must be proud of himself

10/28/2005 12:40:49 AM

Stamina, baby stamina. That's why women love me.

10/28/2005 12:46:21 AM

if by friday night this doesnt happen...it may never happen

10/28/2005 1:44:23 AM

Quote :

"I haven't seen anything to prove his or anyone else's guilt, other than innuendo and flat out lies. Besides, I thought that our system was all about being innocent until proven guilty, or is that only in cases that do not involve Republicans?"

You know, if I'm on the jury when somebody's trying to convict him, it's innocent until proven guilty. As it turns out, however, my personal perception of the matter isn't bound by US law. Furthermore, I find it highly ridiculous that you act like you yourself never think like that. I'm sure there are plenty of people who have been found not guilty in a court of law, or people whose trial have yet to come, that you assume are guilty. There's nothing wrong with that. It just means you're a hypocrite.

10/28/2005 1:45:40 AM

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/10/28/leak.probe/index.html

2 pm news conference

10/28/2005 10:52:27 AM

Nothing is going to come of this. Someone will take the fall, Rove and Cheney will stay as is.

Time to move along.

10/28/2005 12:52:43 PM

The awesome "turd blossom" avoided the heat!

Did you know Bushie has a feces related nickname for many of his "friends"? Vladimir Putin is "Pootie-Poot."

This is your "Christian Conservative" president Bush. Who leaves the border wide open, lets male prostitutes come over to the white house and gives a phony journalist and male prostitute white house press access, presides over a MASSIVE increase in the size and spending of government, nominates liberals to the supreme court, etc., etc. etc.


[Edited on October 28, 2005 at 1:45 PM. Reason : 2]

10/28/2005 1:41:01 PM

Quote :

"nominates liberals to the supreme court"

say what?

10/28/2005 1:46:08 PM

Quote :

"Nothing is going to come of this. Someone will take the fall, Rove and Cheney will stay as is. Time to move along. "

10/28/2005 2:00:45 PM

What a waste of an investigation. I guess it Fitzmas for some of you, even though this isn't the indictment that you wanted.

As for Clinton, he was found guilty of perjury and obstruction of justice, doesn't matter what it was about, he lied. This lady in question was not covert and hasn't been for years, in fact it wasn't a big Washington secret with regards to her identity. Besides, the man whose column is at the center of the controversy, Bob Novak, said all along that his source wasn't from the White House but rather the National Security Council. It's the political equivalent to having your neighbor caught for going 28 in a 25 and then having it blamed on you because it was your car.

10/28/2005 11:39:55 PM

Quote :

"Besides, the man whose column is at the center of the controversy, Bob Novak, said all along that his source wasn't from the White House but rather the National Security Council"

oh thats right, cause karl rove wasn't kicked out of Bush Sr's administration for leaking info to bob novak

10/29/2005 12:25:59 AM

I have no idea what you are talking about.

10/29/2005 12:42:42 AM

^^^ IIRC, Clinton was actually acquitted of those charges (as part of a settlement though, he had to pay money I thinK).

I would like to see someone get acquitted of outing a CIA agent. It was the CIA who requested this investigation in the first place as well. To use your phrasing, it doesn't matter that her identity might have been known, she was still a CIA agent, and she was still working for the CIA. It's disgusting that Clinton would cheat on his wife. It's equally disgusting that the Republican politicians would waste so much time and money trying to make a legal matter out of it. It's more disgusting that a white house official, the Vice President's chief of staff, and one of the President's assistants, would leak the name of a dissident CIA agent to a highly biased news reporter for political gain.

http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/iln/osc/documents/libby_indictment_28102005.pdf
This is from the actual indictment too, btw:

Quote :

" f. Joseph Wilson was married to Valerie Plame Wilson (“Valerie Wilson”). At all relevant times from January 1, 2002 through July 2003, Valerie Wilson was employed by the CIA, and her employment status was classified. Prior to July 14, 2003, Valerie Wilson’s affiliation with the CIA was not common knowledge outside the intelligence community. "

[Edited on October 29, 2005 at 1:04 AM. Reason : 2]

10/29/2005 12:50:05 AM

Clinton wasn't cleared of anything - because of his actions with regards to perjury and obstruction, he had his law license suspended, and he was disbarred from the Supreme Court for a number of years from trying cases or working at the Supreme Court as a lawyer.

So basically Cheney's former Chief of Staff is being indicted for the very same things that Clinton was indicted for but Clinton is a saint and somehow Mr. Libby is the scumbag here.

Which brings us back to the original point - we still don't have any indictments on who it was that supposedly broke the law and released the name of Valerie Plame to the public or made her name public. Furthermore, was she really covert?

This article helps to shed some light on the "covert" controversy:

http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050715-121257-9887r.htm

She hasn't been covert since '97 and the law states that it's a 5 year window with regards to the identity of a covert agent, seems like a closed case to me. Futhermore, it was commonly known that she worked for the agency.

What is interesting to note is that Joe Wilson outed his wife's identity one month before Novak's column at the 2003 Iraq Forum which was held on June 14th of that year where he mentions her by name in his bio, so there ya go, Mr. Wilson (not to mention that he and his wife have a political stake in this given that they gave money to Gore in 2000) is the one who is guilty here of outing her identity.

[Edited on October 29, 2005 at 1:32 AM. Reason : ]

10/29/2005 1:20:36 AM

Quote :

"Clinton wasn't cleared of anything - because of his actions with regards to perjury and obstruction, he had his law license suspended, and he was disbarred from the Supreme Court for a number of years from trying cases or working at the Supreme Court as a lawyer."

Clinton was never officially convicted of anything though. He was never going to trial for the supreme court anyway, and not being able to practice law isn't a big deal to him either. Sure, it was a punishment, but there's no reason to think it hurt him in anyway, unless it just makes you feel warm inside.

Quote :

"So basically Cheney's former Chief of Staff is being indicted for the very same things that Clinton was indicted for but Clinton is a saint and somehow Mr. Libby is the scumbag here. "

Clinton was investigated for a blow job, Libby is being investigated for leaking an CIA agents name to be smeared in an article. Also, no one is calling Clinton a saint (except you, I hear he likes blowjobs, you should look him up), and Libby IS a scumbag, just like his boss Cheney.

Quote :

"Which brings us back to the original point - we still don't have any indictments on who it was that supposedly broke the law and released the name of Valerie Plame to the public or made her name public. Furthermore, was she really covert? "

Fitzgerald has said that he is still negotiating with Rove's lawyers. There may or may not be indictments depending on what they work out.

Quote :

"This article helps to shed some light on the "covert" controversy: http://www.washtimes.com/national/20050715-121257-9887r.htm She hasn't been covert since '97 and the law states that it's a 5 year window with regards to the identity of a covert agent, seems like a closed case to me. Futhermore, it was commonly known that she worked for the agency."

Haha, that article contains nothing but speculation (out of date speculation at that). You should work on your critical reading skills. There is no solid evidence or anything in there. I suggest you read the indictment written by Fitzgerald.

Quote :

"What is interesting to note is that Joe Wilson outed his wife's identity one month before Novak's column at the 2003 Iraq Forum which was held on June 14th of that year where he mentions her by name in his bio, so there ya go, Mr. Wilson (not to mention that he and his wife have a political stake in this given that they gave money to Gore in 2000) is the one who is guilty here of outing her identity."

Link?

10/29/2005 2:36:24 AM

rove = A

10/29/2005 7:38:25 AM

Quote :

"Clinton was never officially convicted of anything though. He was never going to trial for the supreme court anyway, and not being able to practice law isn't a big deal to him either. Sure, it was a punishment, but there's no reason to think it hurt him in anyway, unless it just makes you feel warm inside."

Clinton was never cleared, he wasn't indicted. And if he was cleared then why was his license suspended? He was charged with perjury by at least one federal judge so it isn't like he got off scot free.

Quote :

"Clinton was investigated for a blow job, Libby is being investigated for leaking an CIA agents name to be smeared in an article. Also, no one is calling Clinton a saint (except you, I hear he likes blowjobs, you should look him up), and Libby IS a scumbag, just like his boss Cheney."

Clinton was investigated for lying, perjury, and obstruction of justice in a seemingly irrevelent case, just like this one. Plame wasn't undercover/covert and hasn't been for 8 years so therefore the statute that governs for such a crime has passed.

Libby has been indicted and did the right thing IMO by stepping down, unlike Clinton. As for your assessment of Cheney and Libby, well as they say, opinions are like assholes, everybody has one and they usually stink.

Quote :

"Fitzgerald has said that he is still negotiating with Rove's lawyers. There may or may not be indictments depending on what they work out."

Sounds like lawyerspeak for "we don't have shit on the guy but we'll hound the hell out of him until we do." The left has promised for weeks that Rove was going to be brought down...still waiting...

Quote :

"Haha, that article contains nothing but speculation (out of date speculation at that). You should work on your critical reading skills. There is no solid evidence or anything in there. I suggest you read the indictment written by Fitzgerald."

Sometimes you have to check older sources to get the real story. What is there to speculate? Plame hasn't been overcover in 8 years. The statute in question has a 5 year window which makes this case open and shut.

Quote :

"Link?"

Here ya go: http://next.epic-usa.org/epicdev2/epicevents/forumaudio2003.php

From the bio section, as previously stated, on June 14th, 2003:

Quote :

"Ambassador Joseph C. Wilson, IV served as a member of the U.S. Diplomatic Service from 1976 until 1998. From 1988 to 1991, Ambassador Wilson served in Baghdad as Deputy Chief of Mission at the U.S. Embassy. As acting Ambassador during "Desert Shield," he was responsible for the negotiations that resulted in the release of several hundred American hostages. He was the last official American to meet with Saddam Hussein before the launching of "Desert Storm." Ambassador Wilson graduated from the University of California at Santa Barbara in 1972. He has been decorated as a Commander in the Order of the Equatorial Star by the Government of Gabon and as an Admiral in the El Paso Navy by the El Paso County Commissioners. He is married to the former Valerie Plame and has four children. "

He obviously felt it was fine to flaunt his wife's name around so he should be the next to be indicted. Hell, he's your source!

10/29/2005 7:45:45 AM

Um, her name is not classified, just that she was employed by the CIA. C'mon, use your brain man.

10/29/2005 12:05:37 PM

exactly. This is one of the stupidest talking points the right has come up with.

"but everyone KNEW he was married to valerie plame!"

of fucking course they knew he was married to valerie plame. they didn't KNOW SHE WAS AN UNDERCOVER CIA AGENT, THOUGH

and anyway, there's really no need to argue this anymore. There have been no charges brought against anyone for revealing her identity. The charges are perjury and false statements, which all the evidence so far says libby is guilty of.

Whether or not leaking her name was a crime is moot. I certainly think it was, as does the cia, but that's not what this case is about.

10/29/2005 1:37:02 PM