^Which hasn't hurt recruiting.

3/21/2006 11:35:33 PM

Quote :

"if we consistantly beat unc with the three would you still be upset that we rely on it ?"

Ummm, yeah and IF I could fly it'd make it easy to get to work in the morning

And seriously, making fun of my spelling? I knew it was wrong at the time, but its the internet, who gives a shit?

But some of those last few posts on the last page were actually quality

[Edited on March 21, 2006 at 11:42 PM. Reason : k]

3/21/2006 11:42:03 PM

^^ flip flop, faggot. Which is it -- do we have enough talent to compete at the highest level or don't we?

3/21/2006 11:44:15 PM

Where in the hell did you get any of that out of my posts???

Did you even read what I said about 10-15 posts up?? I personally think our recruiting is pretty good. I think our recruiting classes have been some of the nation's top classes the past few years. We've had a few weaks ones, but overall I'd say our recruiting is fine. Our recruiting won't be on Duke's and UNC's level unless something drastic happens (like Coach K and Roy retiring)...but neither will anyone else's in the country.

We have enough talent to compete, but you're an idiot if you think we'll be on Duke and UNC's level as a program anytime soon. It's just not going to happen. No one in the ACC will do that until one of those coaches retires. Maryland was up there for a couple years, Wake tried to make a run at it, but look where they're at right now. All we can hope is to take a game from them every now and then, hopefully have a great year every once in a while and finish 2nd, maybe first in the ACC...then do our thing in the tournament. Hopefully Coach K can have some back problems or just get tired of the game and maybe UNC can have a big scandal or something. But what they've built is too strong. Even Doherty couldn't fuck up what Carolina has.

Does that answer your question.......faggot.

3/22/2006 12:02:58 AM

You are pathetic

3/22/2006 12:09:35 AM

OMG FIRE HERB BECAUSE HE CANT RECRUIT

AND THE MCDONALDS ALL AMERICANS AND ACC PLAYERS OF THE YEAR HURT THE TEAM

3/22/2006 12:11:15 AM

we're not rolling 5 deep with all-americans.

fuck herb.

matta of fact, fuck yo couch too.

3/22/2006 12:12:35 AM

Quote :

"You are pathetic"

The response I was expecting.

3/22/2006 12:15:13 AM

if you havent at least lowered your expectations for our program, you havent been a fan long enough

3/22/2006 12:38:50 AM

well said

3/22/2006 12:39:30 AM

Nietzsche was clearly right.

Quote :

"Friedrich Nietzsche was the originator of the term "Ubermensch", his idea of the most evolved kind of human being. This type may be contrasted to a weak-willed individual, one who is tired of life, takes no risks, seeks only comfort and security. Nietzsche calls this passive being the Last Man. For the Last Man, nothing great is possible. It is Nietzsche's contention that Western civilization (Europe) is moving in the direction of the last man, for whom nothing matters, who has no great passion or commitment, who is unable to dream, who merely earns his living and keeps warm, perhaps exemplified in the novel Babbitt. With the coming of the last man is the onset of "nihilism," the negation of all values. One of Nietzsche's greatest fears was creeping mediocrity. If the "Übermensch" represented his ideal -- the ideal of a being strong enough to create his own values, strong enough to live without the consolation of traditional morality -- the opposite of the Übermensch was the timid creature Nietzsche called "the last man.""

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 12:53 AM. Reason : IOW, you are losers]

3/22/2006 12:51:59 AM

3/22/2006 12:53:26 AM

^^hahahaha...keeping herb is the biggest risk you fucking pussy

3/22/2006 12:55:56 AM

Quote :

"If the four straight losses had been at the beginning of the year, we wouldn't be having this conversation."

uh .... yea,,, we'd have already had all this conversation... DUH! haha

3/22/2006 12:57:40 AM

^^Thanks, now we have the official wigger position on the issue

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 12:58 AM. Reason : sdfg]

3/22/2006 12:58:17 AM

basketball is for wiggers and niggers only so get the fuck out

3/22/2006 1:00:47 AM

Two responses.

1. Anyone consider that Herb may be a victim of incidental contrasts?

Being within a stonesthrow of two of the most storied college basketball schools and coaches in the nation probably makes him frequently look bad by comparison, when in absolute terms he's probably at least an above average coach for Division I and even the ACC. It's hard to imagine any coach, except a Jim Calhoun, Jim Boeheim, or Bill Self type, really satisfying fans around here when they are constantly bombarded with the antics of teams coached by Roy Williams and Mike Kryzewski.

2. The players are closest to him, what do they say about him?

I haven't seen many post-game interviews or news reports, but do our players call him a good coach? Do they say he's a bad coach? I really have no idea, and would like to know.

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 2:02 AM. Reason : ...]

3/22/2006 1:57:42 AM

^ #1 i can see that as somewhat valid.
#2 not valid at all. take what is said by ANY player to the media about ANY coach of any college team with a grain of salt. no player in his right mind would ever bash his coach on t.v. or in the papers for obvious reasons. that being said, i do not know any of the current players but do however know former players. Some hate him, some love, and some were indifferent. One of the biggest complaints by fans is the lack of emotion shown on the sidelines during games. I've been told it's completely different in practice and behind closed doors. I think he could win some over by showing this emotion in public.

3/22/2006 2:15:45 AM

^^

#1. Maybe if your coach is the Last Man, he feels like that. Others have not crumbled to that pressure, though. Valvano coming in had to go up against Dean, who had the same advantage UNC does today. Coach K didn't bat an eyelash staring down Dean and Valvano as they won NCs back to back.

If you get a talented coach, what happens at other programs doesn't prevent you from achieving at the highest levels. All that other shit is excuses for losers.

(Good coaches who are a tier above sendek aren't that rare in the ACC, either. Excepting recent NCSU history, the north carolina teams have had a string of coaches who went deep into the post season.)

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 2:24 AM. Reason : sdf]

3/22/2006 2:22:32 AM

The difference is Valvano was a salesman and sendek is not. He could go into the most heralded h.s. recruit's house and sale him on a dream over Dean's sure thing. A very important job of a major college coach, especially on tobacco road is to promote your program. Although im not a fan of Herb's style of play, his lack of promotion of the program and himself are probably his biggest flaws. He needs to make basketball at NC State fun again. Have midnight madness, create a j.v. program, become media savy. Invite the student body to be in the team photo. I cannot recall ever seeing him do an espn interview. The only time i ever see anything on local tv with him is during a press conference with about 4 microphones in his face recording coach speak. When we've been "on the bubble" you never see CBS cameras at our team location when the brackets come out. Rarely is he doing any commercials. The only time Ive ever seen him loose in public was that crazy fish dance thing he did a few years ago. When you begin at a disadvantage to other programs as many of you like to point out, you have to do something to distinguish yourself from those programs.

3/22/2006 2:45:04 AM

yeah

he should sell out and be a total hype generator

that's never been tried before at NC State, especially not football

3/22/2006 2:46:58 AM

Quote :

"The only time i ever see anything on local tv with him is during a press conference with about 4 microphones in his face recording coach speak."

he has a tv show, holmes

Quote :

"Rarely is he doing any commercials"

aha and then a read this gem, thats when the last little bit of credibility was finally flushed away

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 2:48 AM. Reason : .]

3/22/2006 2:47:11 AM

how is promoting your program being a sellout?

3/22/2006 2:48:10 AM

^^^ it worked in football, dumbass.

Look at the level of talent here now compared to five years ago.



Our program needs hype. How long did it take Rick Pitino to make Louisville good again?

How long did it take Amaker to jumpstart Seton Hall?


I'm sorry but if Paul Hewitt can completely resurrect a progam like Georgia Tech that quickly, wouldnt you expect Herb to be able to do it at NC STATE?

3/22/2006 2:57:02 AM

what kind of commercials are you talkign about

3/22/2006 2:57:07 AM

Alright, simpler question.

What could Herb Sendek do to satisfy fans?

Or do you all generally agree with scottf?

Quote :

"Valvano coming in had to go up against Dean, who had the same advantage UNC does today."

I don't know, so I'm just asking. What was Valvano's record against Dean? Besides the '83 championship, what major accomplishments did V have in his first 10 years that Sendek hasn't? I'm trying to understand the comparison.

Quote :

"If you get a talented coach, what happens at other programs doesn't prevent you from achieving at the highest levels."

I'm not arguing that they affect the program's results, I'm arguing that they affect the definition of success as perceived by his fan base. If you're used to seeing national championships won by schools nearby, then your team's reaching the NCAA tournament for 5 years in a row isn't going to impress you. You'll just feel like an "also ran." If your team wasn't situated between schools that are constantly winning tournaments and praise from the national media, your standards for defining a successful season would be different.

I'm not defending mediocrity here. I'm asking whether or not State fans have a lower threshold for calling a season mediocre than fans elsewhere in the ACC.

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 3:08 AM. Reason : ...]

3/22/2006 3:01:20 AM

Commercials promoting local businesses as well as public service non-profit organizations. oh and holmes, im not the enemy. i did not say omg we should fire herb now did i? im just pointing out some things that he could change off the court to make the program better and more attractive to recruits.

3/22/2006 3:06:25 AM

how about a walk of champions?

will that give us a winning record in the ACC and an NCAA berth?

let's try that!

3/22/2006 3:09:43 AM

I know you're not. I'm just trying to see if what we have here is a general "blind hatred" for Herb. Is it that they want him to do things differently? Or do they just want him gone so they can ride the bandwagon and drink the kool-aid?

My mind isn't made up on the issue. I'm tired of seeing NC State lose, but I'm hesitant to put it all on Herb. He doesn't do himself any favors with the Princeton offense, either.

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 3:12 AM. Reason : ...]

3/22/2006 3:10:00 AM

no people are just idiots

herb sendek is a modest and fairly soft spoken coach

he just doesn't fit in at a school full of loud mouthed rednecks

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 3:12 AM. Reason : asdf]

3/22/2006 3:12:30 AM

I got that impression when I ran into him near Carmichael. After shaking his hand and wishing him luck, I couldn't help but think "there goes one of the nicest, most hated people I've ever met."

3/22/2006 3:13:35 AM

Quote :

"Commercials promoting local businesses"

please dont tell me you are suggesting sendek does jiffy lube commercials

3/22/2006 3:18:18 AM

Strategically, Amato is a bad coach.

Everyone knows that, no one is arguing that.

However, he brings hope to the program by bringing in talent and making them believe they can win.

In football, you're only as strong as your weakest link.

If your d-line sucks, you suck. ('03)

If your QB sucks, you suck. ('04 and '05)


If we get to the point where we have talent/depth at every position, we have the potential to be good.

Believe it or not, that's not that far off.

Thats why people pay absurd amounts of money for lifetime rights. People believe we have POTENTIAL.

We've seen NC State play with (and sometimes BEAT) some of the best in the country. (Ohio State, FSU, etc)




NC State fans do not have the same hope in basketball. We know we don't have the potential to make a deep tourney run. We know we can't win the ACC. We know we can't steal a recruit from UNC. We know our players don't have the confidence/ability to win.

Ultimately, we know Herb Sendek does not give us the best chance to win.

A coach's job is to put his players in position to win.

Herb's philosophy is to put his players in position to play.

Herb doesn't understand competition or gamesmanship.


If I was 55 years old, I'd love a guy like Herb Sendek managing my portfolio.

If I was in the circus, I'd love a guy like Herb Sendek to inspect my safety net.


But if I'm a basketball fan, I don't want Herb Sendek touching my team.

3/22/2006 3:22:07 AM

i was thinking more on the lines of banks like RBC Centura, Car dealerships since they do provide him with helluva nice vehicles to drive, March of Dimes, V-Foundation, etc. but dude, why are you harping on the commercial thing? so you don't like that idea, great, move on and stop trolling me. Like i said, I'm not the enemy Jon. Im not standing on top of the mountain screaming fire Herb. Hell, I like the guy and consider Melanie a friend even. I will greatly miss them if and when they leave raleigh for whatever reason. However, i do not wear rose colored glasses and do see that some changes need to be made to better the program. I just pointed out some off the court changes that i would like to see changed. As for on the court, Im not against our offense being based around the 3 pt. shot as it is now. But a second means of scoring is needed whether it be a strong inside game or a def. that pressures the ball more and creates transition scoring opportunities off of turnovers.

3/22/2006 3:32:55 AM

Quote :

" I don't know, so I'm just asking. What was Valvano's record against Dean? Besides the '83 championship, what major accomplishments did V have in his first 10 years that Sendek hasn't? I'm trying to understand the comparison."

No offense, but that shit has been posted a 100 times already. You have to bring something other than pure ignorance to the table.

Quote :

"I'm not arguing that they affect the program's results, I'm arguing that they affect the definition of success as perceived by his fan base. If you're used to seeing national championships won by schools nearby, then your team's reaching the NCAA tournament for 5 years in a row isn't going to impress you. You'll just feel like an "also ran." If your team wasn't situated between schools that are constantly winning tournaments and praise from the national media, your standards for defining a successful season would be different. "

I guess dookies can't help talking down to everyone else. Believe it or not, any place where college basketball is the most popular sport will have fans who want NCs and deep tourney runs. It's even truer for programs who have been there and have been at the top. We have the experience to know that all it takes is the right coach for the right program to take a team to the top.

I don't know why you think it's NC state,alone. Indiana just canned Mike Davis, who was doing a sendek-like job there. Go to Cal boards -- they talk about their coach just like we talk about sendek. Maryland fans want to can gary williams, and he's been there 26 fucking years and has a national championship! Do all duke fans have this inflated ego? College basketball existed before duke, and people were fiercely competitive about it then as they are now.

Guys who like sports get competitive. Imagine that! When college basketball is the biggest game in town, that's going to be the thing that matters most to people. If you go north, it's pro football and baseball. If you go to texas, its HS and college football.

Use your brain for a second: fan support in north carolina is generational. If some douche from new jersey comes down and says "Maybe you should aim for middling," a north carolinian is going to tell him to shove a stick up his ass all the way back to new jersey. This person simply doesn't care about college bball.

It's not like basketball has a high barrier to entry, either. You just need 5 or 6 players with good chemistry, about 2 stars, and the right coach at the right time (and please, herb is not the right coach). That's why so many different programs have won the championship throughout history and why many more make deep runs. It's not college football, where the barriers to entry are virtually insurmountable.


A Question: Coach K quits tomorrow. Should duke fans seek a coach to keep their dominance going?

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 4:11 AM. Reason : dg]

3/22/2006 4:00:03 AM

Quote :

"I don't know, so I'm just asking. What was Valvano's record against Dean? Besides the '83 championship, what major accomplishments did V have in his first 10 years that Sendek hasn't? I'm trying to understand the comparison. "

Not exactly the answer, but just for comparison. As of the end of last season (This season hasn't been included, but you can figure it out)


Also as of the end of last year, Herb had to go 61-6 in his next 67 games to be on par with V....and he has to win 2 ACC Championships and a NCAA championship.

Quote :

"vs North Carolina ----------------- Case 31-25 (55.4%) Robinson 5- 7 (41.7%) Sloan 19-34 (35.8%) Valvano 7-18 (28.0%) Sendek 5-15 (25.0%) vs Duke ------- Valvano 14- 9 (60.9%) Sloan 21-16 (56.8%) Case 15-16 (48.4%) Robinson 3-11 (21.4%) Sendek 3-19 (13.6%) vs Wake Forest -------------- Sloan 25-13 (65.8%) Valvano 15- 8 (65.2%) Case 20-14 (58.8%) Sendek 7-13 (35.0%) Robinson 2-10 (16.7%) vs Maryland ----------- Case 18- 7 (72.0%) Sloan 21-14 (60.0%) Valvano 11-12 (47.8%) Sendek 6-16 (27.3%) Robinson 3-10 (23.1%) vs Clemson ---------- Case 21- 6 (77.8%) Valvano 15- 7 (68.2%) Sloan 18-10 (64.3%) Sendek 10- 7 (58.8%) Robinson 6- 7 (46.2%) vs Virginia ----------- Case 19- 5 (79.2%) Sloan 25- 9 (73.5%) Sendek 11- 9 (55.0%) Valvano 8-15 (34.8%) Robinson 2-10 (16.7%) "

And just to make it fair

Quote :

"Maravich inherited a team that had a previous winning percentage of .611 over the preceeding 5 years to his taking over. Sloan inherited a team that had a previous winning percentage of .618 over the preceeding 5 years. Valvano inherited a team that had a previous winning percentage of .660 over the preceeding 5 years. Robinson inherited a team that had a previous winning percentage of .648 over the preceeding 5 years. Herb inherited a team that had a previous winning percentage of .348 over the preceeding 5 years."

I am still under the assumption that most coaches can pretty much win and win big in 10 years of coaching. I, personally, think we have seen all there is to see. Herb's not holding us back as much as our offense is. I don't support him as long as he continues to run this offense



[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 7:51 AM. Reason : ]

3/22/2006 7:36:11 AM

Quote :

"Our program needs hype."

We've all seen how well that works for the football team...

3/22/2006 8:16:50 AM

I thought the RBC Center would sell more high recruits, one of the reasons they made the building to begin with.

3/22/2006 8:29:00 AM

And our recruiting has improved.

I honestly don't think recruiting is our biggest problem right now.

3/22/2006 8:32:30 AM

our problem is depth of recruiting, not quality

we usually only have 6-7 players who ever see pt

3/22/2006 8:57:36 AM

Quote :

"If we get to the point where we have talent/depth at every position, we have the potential to be good. "

well ill be damned

rally has solved everything!

3/22/2006 9:12:32 AM

what about bob knight?

we could out-bid texas tech

this is about the only coach i would fire herb over

3/22/2006 9:18:05 AM

he is too fucking old

3/22/2006 9:23:01 AM

^^^^ that's all on herb. Every year we leave talented freshman and sophs on the bench because herb doesn't think they are ready to play herb ball. We could have done that this year, too. Instead, we ended up needing more players in desperation at the end, and we put them in without experience they could have had.

Just about every other successful program finds some way to exploit their freshman despite their weaknesses. *cough*Texas*cough*

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 9:26 AM. Reason : sdf]

3/22/2006 9:26:17 AM

herb doesnt utilize all his players to their potential...hes leaves simmons near the 3 pt line to set picks too many times and he needs players to fit his style, such as true 3 pts shooters like redick, since we shoot about 25 3s a game

3/22/2006 9:39:50 AM

Quote :

"We've all seen how well that works for the football team... "

don't know exact number, but wasn't it like 4 or 5 straight years of sold out season tickets? National exposure? Vaughn Towers? Murphy Center? handful of NFL picks? Named as possible replacement for Papa Bowden at one time? Granted, it hasn't exactly translated into major success on the field. There's hope and excitement in football; despair and dissension in basketball.

I don't see the fanbase divided over Amato though. He "reached out" to the fans, i.e. on his radio shows and Walk of Champions pleas.

One thing about Herb that bothers me is that he doesn't reach out to the fans at all. He's stubborn and acts all hoity-toity. Rally up the troops dammit. Take a page outta Amato's "relationships" book. Or atleast take a glimpse of Sun Tzu's.

[Edited on March 22, 2006 at 9:53 AM. Reason : hreb]

3/22/2006 9:49:44 AM

Quote :

"Granted, it hasn't exactly translated into major success on the field."

Which is the bottom line.

Quote :

"There's hope and excitement in football"

Ha...not anymore. I remember this year and last year people were so ready for football season to be over and actually looking forward to basketball season.

Quote :

"I don't see the fanbase divided over Amato though."

They got divided this year. We did well at the end of the season and the "division" slimmed down...but the fanbase is definitely more divided than it has ever been.

Quote :

"Take a page outta Amato's "relationships" book."

You mean build up hype...only to let every one down??

I'm sorry...but right now is not the best time to be comparing Amato and Sendek.

3/22/2006 10:49:44 AM

you people

3/22/2006 10:53:38 AM

ok...let me get this straight. You brought the football program into this to now say, well this is not the right time. everyone's entitled to change their minds.

3/22/2006 10:53:53 AM

so are you saying you seriously think we're close to some kind of major fb breakthrough (acc title, bcs) while you think that the bb team is in shambles?

whaaaa?

3/22/2006 11:00:45 AM