5/28/2006 7:17:08 PM

Quote :

"the public paying for/contributing to their defense/legal fees is the same as Jesse Jackson paying the accuser's tuition: fucking stupid."

Quote :

"the public paying for/contributing to their defense/legal fees is the same as Jesse Jackson paying the accuser's tuition: fucking stupid."

Quote :

"the public paying for/contributing to their defense/legal fees is the same as Jesse Jackson paying the accuser's tuition: fucking stupid."

Quote :

"the public paying for/contributing to their defense/legal fees is the same as Jesse Jackson paying the accuser's tuition: fucking stupid."

Quote :

"the public paying for/contributing to their defense/legal fees is the same as Jesse Jackson paying the accuser's tuition: fucking stupid."

Quote :

"the public paying for/contributing to their defense/legal fees is the same as Jesse Jackson paying the accuser's tuition: fucking stupid."

the compassionate catholic brothers ride again. IF YOU GIVE MONEY TO ONE CAUSE THIS YEAR, MAKE IT THE DUKE LACROSSE CASE.

You people are fucking morons and this is a stupid thread. Get a life.

Tell me, how many other wrongful accusation cases are you devoting this much time. money, and attention to this year?

[Edited on May 28, 2006 at 7:47 PM. Reason : .]

5/28/2006 7:39:57 PM

I again overestimated the intellectual ability of people on thsi site. To recap, the initial post was as follows:

Quote :

"If you are planning to purchase a Duke Lacrosse t-shirt, please hold off for a few days. Friends of Duke Lacrosse is having t-shirts printed up and will be selling them in order to help raise money for legal defense. I think it would be much better to buy from them - not only do you get a t-shirt, you get to contribute to their legal fund and you get to also avoid lining the pockets of people who are out to make money from what is happening to these men. I'll keep you updated on when the t-shirts become available for purchase. Thanks everyone. "

Notice the first word being "if". This sets up a standard if-then pattern; IF this, THEN do this. Implicit in every standard if-then pattern is an ELSE. In the event that the ELSE is unstated, it is within conventional understanding that you don't need to do anything.

Let me break it down in simpler terms.

IF you are interested in purchasing a T-Shirt, THEN this thread is for you.
ELSE, fuck off.

That should be elementary enough even for you.

5/28/2006 10:31:37 PM

you're assuming everyone is replying to the first post. believe it or not, people have claimed thigns past the first post on both sides. don't be so arrogant as to think everyone is replying to you.

5/28/2006 10:41:43 PM

youre pretty dense if you didnt expect people to insult you for this.

once again, i ask: how many other wrongful accusation cases will you be putting money towards this year?

5/28/2006 10:42:13 PM

It's not insulting me; most of your posts are rather insulting of yourselves, if you don't mind my saying so. (And really, even if you do mind it.)

^^ Well you are posting in this thread; so you must believe in some way that your comments are at least marginally meaningful to the topic of this thread (else you would be posting in your own.)

What is so hard to understand? IF you want to buy a tshirt, then do so from this association. If not, then I don't give a rat's ass what you do. What's so difficult about this concept - what don't you get?

5/28/2006 10:46:27 PM

Quote :

"^^ Well you are posting in this thread; so you must believe in some way that your comments are at least marginally meaningful to the topic of this thread (else you would be posting in your own.)"

the topic of this thread is not static. as is the case with nearly every tww thread, the topic changes constantly from page to page. i've mostly been responding to the racism that icanread has been spouting recently. not to mention the fact that i don't feel sympathetic at all for duke lacrosse players who may or may not be guilty.

name the last time you cared about someone who was wrongly accused? why is this case different? because it was on sportscenter and cnn?

5/28/2006 10:52:56 PM

Quote :

"Well pardon the hell out of me. I thought I would post something here asking folks to do something kind for people who are going through an extremely difficult time because of a false accusation. I had forgotten what a proctologist's paradise it is around here."

5/29/2006 1:21:59 AM

I'm a big fan of when you implied that anyone who buys a t-shirt from anyone other than Friends of Duke Lacrosse is unkind.

5/29/2006 3:49:24 AM

Quote :

"IF YOU GIVE MONEY TO ONE CAUSE THIS YEAR, MAKE IT THE DUKE LACROSSE CASE. "

Who said this? Show me quotes backing up this claim.

Otherwise, just shut up and quit being a troll.

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 11:32 AM. Reason : ]

5/29/2006 11:28:58 AM

I'd rather give the money to an illegal immigrant.

5/29/2006 11:41:55 AM

Why should I give money to the people who are richer than me?

5/29/2006 11:55:09 AM

Because maybe they need it? Maybe you're a kind and charitable person who wants to help out your fellow man in a time of need?

Or not.

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 12:00 PM. Reason : ]

5/29/2006 11:58:53 AM

anyone saying i'm racist is one of those new age new fangled crazy demon worshippers...I just get my beliefs from the old school i.e. early 19th century


that being said, where do we get these shirts? and when?

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 1:16 PM. Reason : shirts]

5/29/2006 1:15:26 PM

^ah, the slavery days.

5/29/2006 1:42:58 PM

^ modern day china?

5/29/2006 1:53:42 PM

Quote :

"Because maybe they need it? Maybe you're a kind and charitable person who wants to help out your fellow man in a time of need? "

The Duke LaCrosse team is pretty low on the list of people in need.

I agree with this...

Quote :

" the public paying for/contributing to their defense/legal fees is the same as Jesse Jackson paying the accuser's tuition: fucking stupid."

The only reason to so vehemently support them like some people here are is because you hate black people and want to show them who's boss.

I personally would even wear a Duke LaCrosse shirt because I think the publicity the trial is getting is pretty ridiculous, but I would hate for any of my good money to support those racist assholes, as much as I would hate for my money to support the cracked-out, also racist, stripper that accused them.

5/29/2006 3:29:18 PM

Quote :

"The only reason to so vehemently support them like some people here are is because you hate black people and want to show them who's boss"

Or because you truly believe in their innocence. Which is much more likely, given the totality of the evidence.

5/29/2006 3:53:02 PM

i ask again: if you truly believe in the innocent, are you going to be seeking out other wrongful accusation cases and raising money? b/c if so, then good for you.

5/29/2006 3:58:58 PM

So if you speak up for the wrongly accused in one case you have to speak up for every case?

Speaking of stupid arguments...when there's another case that is as highly profiled that generates a ton of local interest, especially given the circumstances, then yeah I'll be happy to speak up. It doesn't even have to be highly profiled or even generate interest if it's as cut and dry as the Duke lax case is.

Please inform me, oh great one. Are there any other cases that I should be aware of that are in need of my support?

5/29/2006 4:20:18 PM

i dunno

are some people more worthy of your support and money than others?

5/29/2006 4:31:42 PM

Um, yeah.

What are the circumstances? What is the nature of the evidence? Is it he said/she said or is there DNA involved? And so on...

I would think that would be clear to any thinking and rational human being.

5/29/2006 4:36:13 PM

isn't that colin finnerty guy is also charged with beating a gay guy and verbally assault that same guy?

5/29/2006 4:47:06 PM

sorry, i guess i dont see why two duke kids are more deserving of my money than people who deal with shitty circumstances every day of their life.

they'll turn out fine, im sure.

5/29/2006 4:50:58 PM

^^ one in the same

5/29/2006 5:05:08 PM

Quote :

"Or because you truly believe in their innocence. Which is much more likely, given the totality of the evidence. "

I would believe that if it was anyone else but you making the statement.

Quote :

"So if you speak up for the wrongly accused in one case you have to speak up for every case? "

No, but considering the numerous past instances of other people that have been wrongly accused of stuff (and many of them weren't charismatic white folks), it's interesting that you choose this particular case to be such a champion of the innocent. It's like there's some other motivating factor that's not being admitted...

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 5:10 PM. Reason : ]

5/29/2006 5:06:27 PM

sure

show me another case where the accuser couldn't identify anyone

but the district attorney needed to get relected

so the cops did a photo line up with no control subjects

and they got dna from dozens of college students

and they ran the dna and GOT A MATCH TO THE SEMEN FROM THE RAPE KIT

and they indicted three college students who DON"T MATCH THE RAPE DNA

and the accused passed a lie detector

and the district attorney and the accuser didn't pass a lie detector

5/29/2006 5:23:48 PM

and you know everything that's happened, not just what the high-priced defense lawyers want you to know. (this is why they were hired by the way). not saying that this stripper was necessarily raped, but to pretend like you know all the facts of the case is ridiculous.

5/29/2006 6:04:51 PM

Do you dispute any of the things he listed?

5/29/2006 6:22:41 PM

do all those things mean that there was no assault? negative

5/29/2006 6:27:42 PM

Quote :

"Do you dispute any of the things he listed?"

i dispute all of it, in that you by no means can make those assertions since the trial hasn't even started.

also, these statements are ridiculous:

Quote :

"and the accused passed a lie detector and the district attorney and the accuser didn't pass a lie detector"

congratulations, mr accused, you passed a subjective test that your defense team paid for.

5/29/2006 6:33:24 PM

Then make your factual disputes. Back it up with evidence please.

There is still evidence, regardless of whether a trial occurs or not. So let's see it.

5/29/2006 7:07:46 PM

you don't seem to understand. neither you nor i have factual evidence. we have what's been in the news. which isn't all that much really. THAT'S MY WHOLE POINT. YOUR ARGUMENTS ARE MOSTLY BASED ON NEWS REPORTS. I'M SAYING THAT YOU DON'T HAVE EVIDENCE.

5/29/2006 7:10:34 PM

And you honestly believe that news reporters make up things just at random? Of course not - news reporters report the news. This is obviousness itself - what are you finding hard to grasp?

5/29/2006 7:12:55 PM

news org's don't have all the information. and you seem to think they do.

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 7:14 PM. Reason : aoijeaf]

5/29/2006 7:14:03 PM

I'm talking about the information they do have. What is your factual dispute with the information they do have? You said you had a dispute with the information they do have - so why don't you hurry up and get to it?

And secondly, while news organizations may not have all the information, the defense SHOULD, by law, have all of the information that the prosecution does.

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 7:15 PM. Reason : add]

5/29/2006 7:14:58 PM

Quote :

"And secondly, while news organizations may not have all the information, the defense SHOULD, by law, have all of the information that the prosecution does."

i agree, but why would the defense present this toxicology report to the press if it didn't help their client? and how do you know they're witholding evidence from the defense team?

Quote :

"I'm talking about the information they do have. What is your factual dispute with the information they do have? You said you had a dispute with the information they do have - so why don't you hurry up and get to it?"

my dispute is that you're basing arguments on incomplete information.

5/29/2006 7:18:26 PM

Then why did you say you had a dispute with the information itself?

Go back to the list that "1" posted. Is anything in that list inaccurate?

5/29/2006 7:54:23 PM

i wish i had of seen this thread; i ordered my shirt last week

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 7:57 PM. Reason : .]

5/29/2006 7:56:56 PM

You can order another one!

And "Innocent" wristbands are now available! They are blue wristbands with "Innocent!" and the numbers of the three victims on it. If you want to order them directly you have to order at least 10 at $3 each; however I will have a very small supply (5 or so) available on a first come first serve basis - PM me.

5/29/2006 8:06:24 PM

Quote :

"And you honestly believe that news reporters make up things just at random? Of course not - news reporters report the news. This is obviousness itself - what are you finding hard to grasp? "

news reporters report leaks

which are only coming from the defense

so even on the news you are really only getting one side

Quote :

"the defense SHOULD, by law, have all of the information that the prosecution does."

thats not correct
and you of all people should know why

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 8:26 PM. Reason : .]

5/29/2006 8:25:25 PM

Uh.. what's not correct about it, counselor?

5/29/2006 8:27:50 PM

wolfpacker is also assuming that if someone wants to buy a Duke Lacrosse shirt, that they would automatically want to buy one from FRIENDS of Duke Lax, which is not the case.

Quote :

"Notice the first word being "if". This sets up a standard if-then pattern; IF this, THEN do this. Implicit in every standard if-then pattern is an ELSE. In the event that the ELSE is unstated, it is within conventional understanding that you don't need to do anything. Let me break it down in simpler terms. IF you are interested in purchasing a T-Shirt, THEN this thread is for you. ELSE, fuck off. That should be elementary enough even for you."

that's your fault for thinking that everyone would automatically buy one IF they were going to.....not too smart.


[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 8:35 PM. Reason : .]

5/29/2006 8:33:27 PM

if its not relevant or exculpatory there is no reason to turn it over
the da isnt holding anything the defense needs

5/29/2006 8:35:15 PM

Well of course if it's not relevant it does not need to be turned over - what would be the point in that? Who would want irrelevant information? When I said evidence, I thought "relevant" was implied.

And it does not necessarily have to be exculpatory.

5/29/2006 9:17:54 PM

Quote :

"Then why did you say you had a dispute with the information itself? Go back to the list that "1" posted. Is anything in that list inaccurate?"

let's review what i said, shall we?

Quote :

"i dispute all of it, in that you by no means can make those assertions since the trial hasn't even started."

i made an assumption here that you could connect the dots that there's no way that you can knowingly claim these things. you don't have all the info. as i've said before (i think in the other thread), the defense is using the press to their advantage, and that is probably most of the info that you have. it is not complete information. complete information will not be available until the trial is underway. and it may not even be available then for general consumption.

i'm not directly disputing the accuracy of your claims, because there's no way too. the claims are groundless. i could make plenty of claims that have no evidence supporting them that you couldn't refute because you don't have any evidence to disprove them.

5/29/2006 9:44:10 PM

Are the statemnets that 1 made true or false, to your knowledge?

5/29/2006 9:45:24 PM

it's a faulty question, because neither of us have knowledge of the situation enough to make an assertion either way.

you must provide evidence. here, wikipedia can help:

Quote :

"Outside a legal context, "burden of proof" means that someone suggesting a new theory or stating a claim must provide evidence to support it: it is not sufficient to say "you can't disprove this". Specifically, when anyone is making a bold claim, it is not someone else's responsibility to disprove the claim, but is rather the person's responsibility who is making the bold claim to prove it."

5/29/2006 9:55:10 PM

thread creator, tell me where you live. i'd like to kick your ass.

5/29/2006 10:04:41 PM

Athens, Georgia. Haul it on down here, tough guy.

[Edited on May 29, 2006 at 10:25 PM. Reason : add]

5/29/2006 10:25:20 PM