Cotchery is an UFA after next season, so who knows what could happen, but the Jets certainly will try to lock him up this offseason.

1/8/2007 1:28:49 PM

Yeah, no.

You can be sure that the Jets are not going to let him get away as a free agent.

They might trade him though, a lot of people on the Chargers boards want to trade Turner for Cotchery, which the Jets might agree to.

[Edited on January 8, 2007 at 2:21 PM. Reason : ]

1/8/2007 2:21:12 PM

Why?^ Is turner a speed guy, b/c if he is, you know Pennington cant hit that

seriously, dont trade JCo. He's going to be a working man's star, much like Holt, next few years. If not sooner.

[Edited on January 8, 2007 at 2:29 PM. Reason : seriously do not let JCo go.]

1/8/2007 2:29:08 PM

do you watch football?

turner is a tailback in a fullback's body

1/8/2007 2:31:30 PM

Turner is the Charger's backup RB. He's fast, but is more of a "Power guy" Think Brandon Jacobs from the Giants, but faster. He's easily good enough to be a starter for most teams without a premier back, and the Jets are definitely among them.

1/8/2007 2:35:37 PM

Oooo. now thats tasty. I want to write something in favor of L. Washington, but its just hard to hope a rook can improve greatly over the offseason and become a star running back in the NFL. I think he has it and can, but maybe not as fast as we want. I'm thinking AFC East Crown next season and LW may not be at that level by then.

But if Turner is as good as you adverstise Mac, then its equally as hard not to go get him. But with our #2 receiver? With Coles and JCo we saw amazing things this year. Only to get better as JCo matures and Coles finally settles down.

I say draft picks. We have the #26 and #40(ish). I've heard rumors of packaging that for a #12 or so to trade up. If thats the case use that for a sure thing in Turner. Which using a jacobs reference means "yes"

And no ^^ tke i don't watch football. I just like to listen to John Madden for his graceful and insightful on air commentary and outrageous commericals.

Fucking a.

[Edited on January 8, 2007 at 3:03 PM. Reason : seriously?]

1/8/2007 3:02:24 PM

Quote :

"Year G GS Att Yds Avg Lg TD 20+ 1st 2004 14 1 20 104 5.2 30 0 2 4 2005 16 0 57 335 5.9 83 3 1 11 2006 13 0 80 502 6.3 73 2 7 24 TOTAL 43 1 157 941 6.0 83 5 10 39"

YPA has increased every year he has been in the league, with 6.3 yards per attempt this year. Pretty damn good.

I would love to have him on the Panthers, him and Williams would make a great 1-2 punch.

1/8/2007 3:13:20 PM

Quote :

"The Chargers need a good route runner like Cotchery who can get open over the middle. Eric Parker is like a poor man's Cotch, and McCardell is just old, man."

what? that's the last thing the chargers need. their entire wr corps is made up of possession receivers who run excellent routes.

i don't see how you can say "parker is a poor man's cotch". parker is a seasoned cotchery. e is worth every bit of his nickname, "the bondsman". parker is clutch, especially on third downs. he has proven to be one of rivers' favorite targets. i foresee cotchery being as good as parker in another year or two, and eventually a better receiver. right now, parker is definitely the better receiver.

in terms of receivers, they need a #1 type. that doesn't mean someone who is simply fast. a #1 guy is quick enough, but more importantly, he is someone who knows how to get seperation from defenders. he's gotta be a crisp route runner, have moves at the line of scrimmage to gain a bit of seperation, know how to attack the ball in the air, and know how to position himself to gain an advantage over a defender.

their most promising prospect to be that #1 type is vincent jackson. he's got good speed, and he is a great jump ball guy being 6'5". however, he has a problem with not attacking the ball if it's not thrown right to his hands - he gives up too easily. he needs to learn how to position his body to shield the ball away from defenders and gain the advantage. he's still very green, but he can be taught the techniques to become and elite receiver. he's a randy moss in the making; hopefully without the attitude issues.

[Edited on January 8, 2007 at 3:48 PM. Reason : ]

1/8/2007 3:43:11 PM

Quote :

"their entire wr corps is made up of possession receivers who run excellent routes."

Are you daft? You think Vincent Jackson is a possession reciever?

VJ will never be a #1 reciever because he is not quick enough to get separation from defenders in short routes. He is plenty fast, but he's just not quick enough in his cuts to get open consistently.

Eric Parker

         rec   yds  avg     TD
2002 SDG 9 17     268 15.8 31 1  
2003 SDG 8 18     244 13.6 33 3 
2004 SDG 15 47   690 14.7 79 4 
2005 SDG 16 57   725 12.7 49 3  
2006 SDG 15 48   659 13.7 38 0 

1/8/2007 4:46:23 PM

Cotchery >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Eric Parker

1/8/2007 4:51:18 PM

Quote :

"VJ will never be a #1 reciever because he is not quick enough to get separation from defenders in short routes."

i agree, and i said as much in my previous post. once he develops some moves and improves on his technique, he could become a viable #1 type receiver.

Quote :

"In 5 years in the league, Eric Parker has never even come close to putting together a season as good as Cotchery's this past year. He is a good route runner with decent hands, but he's not a threat to break one and he is prone to dropping passes at times. Cotchery is bigger, stronger, faster, and he has better hands. Like I said, Parker is a poor man's Jerricho."

consider the offensive philosophy each played/s in and their respective roles in them. up until this season, the chargers' offense went entirely through tomlinson and gates. just look at the number of receptions he's gotten: 50.7 in 3 starting seasons. the more important and impressive stat is his yards per catch average: 13.7 ypc in 3 starting seasons.

don't get caught up in the touchdown stats. there are a multitude of reasons why a receiver has a bunch or just a few touchdowns. for example, the chargers primarily utilized lt, gates, floyd & jackson (the two tall receivers) in the goldzone. as a result mccardell and parker became just the second pair of starting receivers in the modern era to finish the season with 0 touchdown receptions.

that certainly does not mean they sucked. on the contrary, both mccardell and parker have proved to be invaluable to the chargers' passing offense. it's not coincidence that rivers' recent struggles were in games that mccardell and parker weren't playing. parker just returned in full capacity for the seattle game; and the passing game flourished.

also of note, rivers has spread the ball around remarkably all season. he hits 6-8 different people during every game. that's going to diminish everyone's stats. this is the first season that gates has finished with less than 10 touchdown receptions (9) since his rookie season, and it's entirely due to the ball being spread around more.

your contention that parker hasn't come close to cotchery's numbers is wrong.
parker to cotchery:
receptions... 48 to 82
yards... 659 to 961
td's... 0 to 6
ypc... 13.7 to 11.7
20+...8 to 12
40+... 0 to 1
1st downs... 35 to 53

* parker's '05 stats are better (in 6 fewer games), but i'm only comparing '06 since it's cotchery's lone full season.

notice that cotchery had almost twice as many receptions. not suprisingly, cotchery also has better stats in the other categories... but not twice as much. however, parker had the better average per catch. if you give parker enough receptions to equal cotchery's 82, and project his yards using his 13.7 ypc average, then parker would have 1124.8 yards on the season.

"bigger, stronger, faster, and has better hands"? they're the same height and cotchery has 27 lbs on parker. can't compare their strength since i don't know parker's numbers, and i doubt you do. faster? cotchery ran a 4.6 forty at the draft combine, and i can't imagine parker is slower than that. not saying the forty is only measure of a player's speed, but it's a commonly used one. better hands? i've seen parker drop perhaps 3 passes this season, and he let his defender steal an "interception" out of his hands in the steelers game. i'd be willing to bet cotchery has atleast 3 drops on the season. as i said before, parker's nickname is "the bondsman" because he's clutch on 3rd downs and "bail out" situations. "better hands" is usually a dumb argument, and i'd say so here.

quit being a homer. i love cotchery as much as the next nc state fan, but i can be objective.

[Edited on January 8, 2007 at 7:53 PM. Reason : ]

1/8/2007 7:40:47 PM

chargers will get terrell owens

1/8/2007 7:59:52 PM

^^I've seen every game this season. Parker has had his share of drops, more than I ever saw Cotchery make in 4 years at NC State.

Cotchery has almost 30 pounds on Parker and you don't think he's stronger? C'mon. Cotchery is obviously the bigger, stronger reciever.

As far as speed goes, Cotchery has gotten faster since the combines. As stated previously, he trained for speed in the offseason and it shows. He has broken several long runs after the catch this year, much longer than any of Parker's catches. He has breakaway speed that Parker lacks.

And no, Rivers doesn't spread the ball around more than Pennington. Pennington and Rivers are very similar QB's who excel in the west-coast offense and go through their progressions very well. Nevertheless, despite being the #1 reciever on the Chargers, Parker's stats are not even close to Cotchery's. Its not because Rivers spreads the ball around more, its because Cotchery is open more often.

I like Eric Parker, and I think he has a lot of talent. But everything he does, Cotchery does better.

1/8/2007 8:50:16 PM

my goodness. your post is full of all kinds of outta whack bullshit! hahahahahahahahahaha...hahahahahahahaha!!!

1. you're trying to say that parker had more drops this season than cotchery had in his 4 years at state?!?!?!
2. being 27lbs heavier than someone doesn't mean you're stronger than that person. wtf kinda logic is that?
3. i don't doubt cotchery is faster and quicker than he was while at state. however, that doesn't mean he's any faster than parker. additionally, neither of us have established parker's speed by any measure, nor have we even stated we have any idea.
4. he broke several long runs after the catch? that can easily be found by "yac" stat, which i haven't seen. going by the 20+ and 40+ stat, cotchery has just 5 more despite having 34 more receptions.
5. again, how can you say "cotchery has breakaway speed that parker lacks"? for one thing, i doubt very many people would say cotchery has breakaway speed. are you kidding me?! secondly, it goes back to the fact that you still haven't demonstrated you know the measure of parker's speed.
6. pennington doesn't spread the ball around. jets' top 5 reception leaders, in order of number of receptions: coles (91), cotchery (82), baker (35), washington (25), mccareins (23). there's a substantial margin (47 receptions) between coles and cotchery, the #1 and #2 receivers, and the rest.
chargers' top 5: gates (71), tomlinson (56), parker (48), mccardell (36), jackson (27). the largest margin is between gates and lt at just 15 receptions.
the difference between the #1 and #5 for each respective team is: 68 vs. 44. i repeat, rivers has spread the ball around. pennington does not spread it around nearly to the degree that rivers does, but that could be by design.
7. neither the jets nor the chargers utilize a west coast offense. the jets used to under herm edwards, but not anymore with "man-genius". well, i guess that one could be argued, since it's modified west coast. however, it would be like calling herb's philosophy "the princeton". mangini learned from belichick who learned from parcells. parcells philosophy is similar to the west coast, but it's not the same. schottenheimer has never used the west coast offense.
8. parker isn't the #1 receiver on the depth chart. he's number 2. and as you can see above, he's 3rd in receptions.
9. parker doesn't have as many yards (due to having half the receptions), but parker is more efficient.
10. "Its not because Rivers spreads the ball around more, its because Cotchery is open more often." that's purely speculative conjecture.
11. "I like Eric Parker, and I think he has a lot of talent. But everything he does, Cotchery does better." there ya go, being a homer again!

[Edited on January 8, 2007 at 10:28 PM. Reason : ]

1/8/2007 10:14:47 PM

aw shit, i found some nice stats... "incomplete pass info"
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6255&team=24
http://stats.washingtonpost.com/fb/playerstats.asp?id=6867&team=20
targets - drops - % caught - % 1st down
parker: 70 - 2 - 68.6% - 50.0%
cotch: 125 - 6 - 65.6% - 42.4%

so i was wrong about parker's drops. according to those stats, he has 2 drops that were on target. i said earlier that i recall 3. you, on the other hand, claim to have watched every chargers' game and are contending that parker had several more. you even said he had "more than [you] ever saw cotchery [drop] in 4 years at nc state". how many state games did you watch? hmmm...

[Edited on January 8, 2007 at 10:51 PM. Reason : ]

1/8/2007 10:49:19 PM

cotchery > parker

1/8/2007 11:43:14 PM

SWEET DROP PARKER

1/14/2007 4:52:31 PM

Parker is really showing up for this game.

So according to those stats 3 or 4 posts up Parker has match his season total in exactly 2 balls thrown to him if I'm reading it right.

[Edited on January 14, 2007 at 5:01 PM. Reason : x]

1/14/2007 5:00:32 PM

parker is fucking amazing


every time he touches the ball


prepare for the fucking amazingness

1/14/2007 5:13:20 PM

Parker isn't bad

He is a pretty good 2nd reciever.

And VJ is a good downfield receiver with speed and height, kind of like that Carter guy on the Panthers.

[Edited on January 14, 2007 at 5:18 PM. Reason : But Cotchery would make a good #1]

1/14/2007 5:17:57 PM

im blaming parker for that rivers fumble

1/14/2007 5:18:22 PM

^ Doesn't matter

Incompletion would have resulted in the same thing

so he didn't want to throw it away.

1/14/2007 5:20:21 PM

And this is why the Jets would want Turner

1/14/2007 5:41:15 PM

parker is so much better than cotchery it's unbelievable

[Edited on January 14, 2007 at 7:05 PM. Reason : i'm retahdeddhasf]

1/14/2007 7:03:05 PM

Quote :

"parker is a seasoned cotchery. e is worth every bit of his nickname, "the bondsman". parker is clutch"

How did that work out yesterday?

Dropping 2 EASY catches in the first half. Not tiptoeing in the back of the endzone. Another drop. Muffing a punt and not covering it.

Eric Parker is a game breaker blower.

1/15/2007 1:01:42 PM

i knew you clowns would bump this thread.

all i have to say is parker played a horrible game and is largely responsible for the chargers' loss yesterday. with that said, one game doesn't make someone a bad player. brady played the worst game of his career. is he suddenly a bad qb?

it'd be nice if the chargers could trade turner for j-cotch or randy moss. yeah. that'd be money!

^ that was vincent jackson who stepped out the back of the endzone.

[Edited on January 15, 2007 at 1:17 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2007 1:12:54 PM

keyshawn for j-co

1/15/2007 1:30:10 PM

that'd be nice too.

1/15/2007 1:36:00 PM

Quote :

"Dropping 2 EASY catches in the first half. Not tiptoeing in the back of the endzone. Another drop. Muffing a punt and not covering it."

not to mention slipping deep in the backfield on a reverse that appeared to be able to get good yardage with a block from Rivers.

Quote :

"brady played the worst game of his career."

and that's a bold-ass statement, i'm sure he's had worse

[Edited on January 15, 2007 at 1:38 PM. Reason : fdsa]

1/15/2007 1:37:41 PM

i don't think so. his 3 int's yesterday was a career high. if it wasn't his worst game, then it's defnitely in his top 3 worst. brady was visibly flustered for whatever reason. he was throwing balls all over the place - behind, under, overlead, throwing it away. he made the the two passes that counted the most though, and to a former charger at that.

[Edited on January 15, 2007 at 1:43 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2007 1:42:35 PM

he also cut up the chargers defense like they were swiss cheese a few times, such as right before halftime and for the tie at 21-21 or whatever.

1/15/2007 1:53:25 PM

Brady did very well considering what he was faced with (the charger defense). I ultimately knew that he wouldn't have an A+ game against them, because they are fierce. But, the thing I like most about Brady is how he places the negatives (int's,sacks, bad throws) behind him on every possession.

Quote :

"not to mention slipping deep in the backfield on a reverse that appeared to be able to get good yardage with a block from Rivers."

Everyone slipped yesterday. So I won't hold that against him.

1/15/2007 2:28:38 PM

Quote :

"he also cut up the chargers defense like they were swiss cheese a few times, such as right before halftime and for the tie at 21-21 or whatever."

yeah, and that's when the chargers were in the prevent defense, and they didn't blitz once. i was sitting at the bar, screaming my fucking head off. "BLITZ MOTHERFUCKER! BLIIIIIIIIIIIITZ"!!!" then, brady drives the pats for the touchdown. it was obvious to others at the bar that brady was all screwed up in the head, and the blitz was getting to him. the fucking prevent defense... it should be banned.

considering the chargers secondary is one of the two weaknesses (along with the wr corp) of the team, you'd think wade philips would be wiser than to give tom brady all day to find his receivers.

[Edited on January 15, 2007 at 2:53 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2007 2:51:51 PM

Rofl, the soft cover two's should be banned. As well as the prevent.

1/15/2007 2:54:01 PM

Quote :

"it'd be nice if the chargers could trade turner for j-cotch or randy moss."

please no on randy moss

definitely don't want to see turner on the raiders either

would love to have cotchery though

1/15/2007 3:05:55 PM

McCareins and a 2nd or 3rd rounder for Michael Turner.

Deal?

[Edited on January 15, 2007 at 3:07 PM. Reason : JMac is good just no place on Mangini's team.]

1/15/2007 3:07:01 PM

Quote :

"yeah, and that's when the chargers were in the prevent defense, and they didn't blitz once. i was sitting at the bar, screaming my fucking head off. "BLITZ MOTHERFUCKER! BLIIIIIIIIIIIITZ"!!!" then, brady drives the pats for the touchdown. it was obvious to others at the bar that brady was all screwed up in the head, and the blitz was getting to him. the fucking prevent defense... it should be banned."

yeah no shit I was yelling blitz too, but good quarterbacks take advantage of shit like this, and you can't take anything away from brady because the chargers DC is a dumbass

1/15/2007 3:12:47 PM

Back to the topic;

There is no way in hell you can say that Parker is a better reciever than Cotchery after that abortion of a game he had yesterday.

I was being generous when I said that he's a poor man's Cotchery.

The Chargers need a reliable reciever. McCardell used to be that guy, but he's finished now. If I were AJ Smith, I would trade Turner for Cotchery and a draft pick.

1/15/2007 3:13:54 PM

^^i wasn't taking anything away from brady. i think he's overrated, but he did enough to win yesterday.

^ man, stfu! isn't it convenient that you didn't have shit to say for a fucking week? then, the guy has inarguably a shitty game, and you jump in with the "i told you so" bullshit. why didn't you have shit to say last week after my juggernaut post? like i said, one game doesn't change anything. parker is still a better receiver than cotchery right now. i'm more of a nc state fan than alot of people, but i'm usually not a fucking homer.

[Edited on January 15, 2007 at 3:32 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2007 3:14:26 PM

And then Tanenbaum would tell you to fuck yourself. There is no way the Jets are giving Cotchery AND a draft pick for him. JMac and a draft pick. Final offer.

[Edited on January 15, 2007 at 3:15 PM. Reason : ^^]

1/15/2007 3:14:56 PM

Quote :

" like i said, one game doesn't change anything. "

You're right. Cotchery is still the better reciever. He was better in college and he's been better in the pros.

1/15/2007 3:35:19 PM

so now that Henning is gone from the panthers, Keyshawn is more than likely gone. He said he wants to retire, but I think that he would be willing to hop to another team for at least another year.

That being said, i say the Panthers make a trade offer to the Jets for Cotchery. That would be a fantastic duo to have Smitty and J-Co.


+

=

1/15/2007 3:50:16 PM

panthers need to figure out how to upgrade from delhomme first. delhomme for schaub anyone?

where do the panthers fall on the draft order? if it's mid-late, then:
1st round pick.
keyshawn & 3rd round.
2nd and 3rd round picks.


cotchery is going to be an expensive acquisition for anyone. the jets love him, and he's got great upside.

[Edited on January 15, 2007 at 4:00 PM. Reason : ]

1/15/2007 3:56:23 PM