Quote :

"treated for alcohol poisoning at the hospital"

that treatment = a place to sleep

8/5/2006 3:26:04 PM

Are you a medical doctor? Are you privy to her medical records?

8/5/2006 3:27:13 PM

noise noise noise

8/5/2006 3:27:40 PM

how so did you call me out?

also, treatment for alcohol poisoning is not a place to spend the night.

and if the cop called an ambulance for her, he should have made sure she got into the ambulance and did not wander off. Especially since she was underage.

Protect and Serve

8/5/2006 3:27:55 PM

thats how you treat being drunk

8/5/2006 3:28:19 PM

pink noise

8/5/2006 3:28:24 PM

But that is not how you treat alcohol poisoning.

8/5/2006 3:28:51 PM

Quote :

"and if the cop called an ambulance for her, he should have made sure she got into the ambulance and did not wander off. Especially since she was underage."

So, it's the cop's fault?

8/5/2006 3:32:04 PM

It's the cops fault that she was allowed to wander off.

8/5/2006 3:33:13 PM

But it's not her fault that she did wander off?

8/5/2006 3:33:50 PM

Quote :

"But that is not how you treat alcohol poisoning."

'

my guess is that they didnt take a blood alcohol. and if they did, we dont know what it was.

8/5/2006 3:34:44 PM

^^are you attempting to argue in circles

^why should the BAC be released?

8/5/2006 3:37:09 PM

No, but when you start talking about what the police should have done and didn't do, that sounds like you're blaming the cops and not Coleman.

8/5/2006 3:42:37 PM

ultimately the blame does rest on coleman.

8/5/2006 3:43:17 PM

That's true, the blame does ultimately rest with him. Nobody has said anything different.

I just find it interesting that talking about what Moore should and shouldn't have been doing is somehow blaming the victim. But you mentioning what the cops should and shouldn't have been doing isn't blaming the cops, or anyone other than Coleman.

8/5/2006 3:47:17 PM

It's not blaming them for the rape

8/5/2006 3:48:32 PM

Quote :

"let's continue to blame the victim instead of the perp."

Then how was Moore being blamed for the rape?

[Edited on August 5, 2006 at 3:50 PM. Reason : ]

8/5/2006 3:49:18 PM

Moore was being blamed because of how she was dressed, her innebriated state and being alone.

8/5/2006 3:51:03 PM

All anyone said was that she put herself into an unfortunate situation by doing those things. How is that ascribing blame to her? Do you deny that those things (the alcohol and being alone, at least) are part of the sequence of events that led her to Coleman?

8/5/2006 3:57:28 PM

no, they were ascribing blame towards her.

8/5/2006 4:15:26 PM

are we not taught that prevention is the best policy?

8/5/2006 4:15:41 PM

You don't think that Moore's condition had anything to do with Coleman picking her up?

8/5/2006 4:26:51 PM

Why are we assuming that blame is zero sum? Coleman is 100% to blame for raping the girl, Moore is 100% to blame for increasing her chances of getting raped and not using common sense. And the people who called the ambulance are 100% to blame for not trying to keep Moore from wandering off. In the end, everyone had a hand in creating the end result, but that doesn't mean anyone's blame is less than if they weren't involved at all.

8/5/2006 4:47:40 PM

i care less about blame, more about what is right

if we start saying its WRONG to walk around at night, then we're not going to be fixing the actual parts of our society that led to her getting raped

8/5/2006 4:49:55 PM

her condition could have had something to do with Coleman targeting her. But rape and murder are things people think about that for a while. If it wasn't moore, it would have been someone else.

8/5/2006 4:52:02 PM

nothing special...even half naked and drunk

8/5/2006 4:55:38 PM

it's not her fault that someone decided to rape her

just like it isn't someone's fault when they leave their keys in the ignition and someone decides to steal their car

but she should have known better

8/5/2006 5:05:03 PM

Quote :

"her condition could have had something to do with Coleman targeting her"

I think her condition probably had everything to do with it. Coleman was looking for an easy target and Moore was susceptible. I would agree with you that if wasn't Moore, then it would have been some other person.

Quote :

"if we start saying its WRONG to walk around at night, then we're not going to be fixing the actual parts of our society that led to her getting raped"

What suggestions do you have for removing douches like Coleman from society?

In the meantime, it's probably not smart for drunk, 18 year old girls to be walking around at 5 o'clock in the morning. (Notice that I didn't use the word wrong--I said that it's not smart)

8/5/2006 5:08:12 PM

if someone's house gets robbed, i never hear people say s/he shoudnt have had such a nice house

8/5/2006 5:10:33 PM

What's your point?

If someone's house is properly secured, i.e. the owner took reasonable precautions to ensure that the house was not broken into, then why would anyone say that?

You can ignore human nature or idealize/romanticize it if you want, but you're ignoring a hard lesson from the entire human experience: If you leave the front door open, it's only a matter of time before someone walks in. It may not be right, but it's the truth.

(The front door thing is a metaphor; I hope you don't get confused.)

[Edited on August 5, 2006 at 5:20 PM. Reason : ]

8/5/2006 5:12:59 PM

Quote :

"if we start saying its WRONG to walk around at night, then we're not going to be fixing the actual parts of our society that led to her getting raped"

Who said anything about it being wrong? It's just stupid to be walking around in her condition at night, but it isn't wrong. You don't walk around downtown harlem yelling "I hate niggers", you don't tease a bear, you don't leave your $50,000 antiques on your front porch. It doesn't make any of these things wrong, it just makes them stupid.

Quote :

"if someone's house gets robbed, i never hear people say s/he shoudnt have had such a nice house"

No, but you do hear them call the owners stupid for leaving the doors unlocked, letting the mail pile up while they were away and having their big expensive home entertainment system in full view from the street because they didn't close the blinds on their giant floor to cieling glass windows.

If you don't take precautions to minimize your risks, then people are going to (rightfuly) criticise your failure to take those precautions. That doesn't mean that what the person who comitted a crime did is any less wrong, but it makes you partly culpable in the situation.

8/5/2006 6:54:22 PM

^^^ No, but your example is the equivalent of someone saying she was raped because she was pretty. A more apt example would be someone saying "they got robbed because they left their windows open"

I don't think anyone here is blaming the girl for being raped and murdered as some of you are suggesting. The guy who did it, and he alone is to blame. However, that doesn't mean it's wrong to point out the fact that she didn't take the best precautions to protect herself. I'm not saying that her actions caused her to be raped but she could have taken actions which would have been much less likely to end in rape and murder or not at all. She could have stayed at the police impound and called her parents, she could have gone to the hospital, etc..

And as much as I hate Bill O'Reilly, though he did not choose the most elequent way to put it, I think he was just trying to send a message to females that you have to think about the reponses which your actions may solicit (whether right or wrong, that doesn't change the fact that the action may happen).

You can leave your car running where ever you want, but we all know people steal cars and a running car is much easier to steal than a locked car which is not running. Knowing this, most people turn off and lock their cars.

This is an extreme example but: White guy walks around in a mostly black neighborhood with a shirt on that says "FUCK NIGGERS", he should realize the possibility he'll get his ass beat. If he does ,the guys beating his ass are breaking the law so they are ultimately to blame for the crime. But that doesn't change the fact that he's all kinds of fucked up and his actions are what led to it.

Would you defend this guy, or would say "he got what he deserved"?

Walking through a bad area drunk, and alone when you had other options is poor judgement. That poor judgement led to her crossing paths with a piece of fucking shit, parasite of a human being who chose to rape and murder her.

I think one of the problems her is that she's an innocent victim. And people don't like to hear others saying something negative about a victim. That emotional part of it doesn't stop what is being said from being true.

[Edited on August 5, 2006 at 7:01 PM. Reason : ^]

8/5/2006 6:59:16 PM

Quote :

"BridgetSPK: It would be interesting to here hear what the raping murderer has to say. I mean, did he go out looking to rape and kill someone? Or did it just occur to him once he saw an attractive, young, drunk female by herself?"

I need to work on spelling, but anyway...

Quote :

"duro982: This is an extreme example but: White guy walks around in a mostly black neighborhood with a shirt on that says "FUCK NIGGERS", he should realize the possibility he'll get his ass beat. If he does ,the guys beating his ass are breaking the law so they are ultimately to blame for the crime. But that doesn't change the fact that he's all kinds of fucked up and his actions are what led to it."

Bad example. She wasn't wearing a shirt that said "I DARE YOU TO RAPE ME!"

8/6/2006 10:48:42 AM

i agree that the nigger shirt example is bad. you're going to get stuck with some of the blame for inciting violence.

8/6/2006 10:53:59 AM

Sober fully dressed people never get raped

8/6/2006 11:04:35 AM

Quote :

"if someone's house gets robbed, i never hear people say s/he shoudnt have had such a nice house"

You'll see me say it if they put their mansion in the middle of a ghetto and leave the front door open.

8/6/2006 11:36:27 AM

she was asking for it huh

8/6/2006 1:32:12 PM

fine, if thats what you want to hear, ill say it. she was asking for something bad to happen be it getting raped, robbed, abducted, etc.

8/6/2006 1:36:03 PM

maybe getting raped will teach her to not be 105lbs at 2am in NYC

8/6/2006 1:37:03 PM

well, that and getting killed, i'd say she won't be anywhere any time soon.

8/6/2006 1:39:49 PM

just goes to show you the dangers of drinking alcohol. youll get raped.

8/6/2006 1:48:34 PM

she's probably happy that someone appreciated her halter top.

8/6/2006 1:56:42 PM

like bill oreily

8/6/2006 2:15:25 PM

she put herself in the situation, not bill o'reilly

8/6/2006 3:05:32 PM

Also that area of NYC (unless I am mistaken) is not the ghetto

8/6/2006 3:20:42 PM

at 2am it doesnt make that much difference

8/6/2006 3:24:33 PM

which is why women shouldnt be allowed to leave home after dark

this is common sense



[Edited on August 6, 2006 at 3:52 PM. Reason : wert]

8/6/2006 3:52:14 PM

Can't leave it alone can you?



Troll.

8/6/2006 4:01:15 PM

Quote :

"walking home alone is not poor judgement. its how to get home."

Quote :

"which is why women shouldnt be allowed to leave home after dark this is common sense"

but yet you still argue with those who want to say that she is partly to blame for this incident?

8/6/2006 4:01:44 PM

The only person who's totally lost sense of reality in here is Josh##s, but that's not new for him.

We all agree that it is not her fault, and she is not actually to blame for being raped.

However, she engaged in a "high risk" activity, such as walking alone at night, inotixicated in a big city (forget her age, how she looked, her weight, etc.). The man deserves whatever penalty they will give him (I hope its death, but I'm sure you, Josh, will disagree because he's still a human with rights, right?). It should not have happened, as we should live in a world where you can leave your front door unlocked, dress the way you would like, wander piss-drunk at night anywhere you feel and no one should mess with you.

Most of us, though, live in the real world where we know that shit happens, so you have to be smart about it.

And your pathetic attempt to make it appear that people should be legally banned from doing something they should not do, is simply ridiculous. Its the last leg you have to stand on (similar to your totally worthless 5% of the face shit you have going on in another thread) and you know damned well that there is a difference in something you probably shouldn't do and being banned from doing it. You probably shouldn't stare at the fucking sun...that doesn't mean we should arrest people who insist on doing so.

8/6/2006 5:24:52 PM