^dude toney and andre were in together on multiple plays
we ran quite a few split back plays

9/3/2006 2:53:27 AM

We have the softest schedule I have seen since I arrived at NCSU in 1999.

Might as well put in Burke, give him the snaps and experience as this is going to be a major building year anyway. We play 2 ranked teams, both conference games.

2-3 years ago we were playing Ohio State and Notre Dame. I mean seriously. Amato damn well better produce a bowl worthy team this year.

9/3/2006 3:14:17 AM

Quote :

"Steinpwnt"

Sorry I couldn't post again, I went out to the bars tonight because I didn't want to spend my entire night arguing with an idiot on TWW.

I don't know why you're incapable of seeing Stone as a shitty quarterback. I would absolutely love to see him be a mediocre to decent starting quarterback of a Division IA school, but this game left me wishing our quarterback was App State's because at least he could complete a pass downfield. I wouldn't really hop on his bandwagon, but I'd sure as shit be happy to see a decent quarterback represent our school again.

I mean, call me crazy, but even with a running team, it's kind of important our quarterback complete a pass of more than two yards.

God knows I would love to hop on the Marcus Stone bandwagon, but he's going to have to show me more than 44 yards against a team we should blow out for me to even remotely believe in him or our team.

Sitting next to Shrike, I said that all we needed to do to win this game was to have Andre Brown bounce the ball outside because an (theoretically) inferior opponent like App shouldn't have the speed to catch him around the corner. Wouldn't you know it, the second we ran Andre Brown to the corner, we had a touchdown! Yet, with all that, with these supposed man-god running backs we had, we can't run the ball successfully up the middle against a Division IAA team. That is fucking ridiculous.

Our "quarterback" Marcus Stone can't throw for shit either, and I don't understand why pointing that out makes all my posts negative. He threw for 44 yards, almost all of which were yards after the carry against a DIVISION IAA SCHOOL. If you watched the game, which I don't think you did, you'd know that all of his passes were the stereotypical Jay Davis two yards dump offs to receivers who were essentially forced to make the play themselves. So if I were going to congratulate Marcus Stone on anything it would be 50% of the time getting the ball to someone who didn't suck as badly as he did.

I'm not sure if you realize this, but against real teams -- teams that are actually IA, the passing game is important. Right now, after the showing we had against fucking App State there's absolutely no reason not to put 9 people in the box. It's painfully obvious that the joke of a QB we have isn't going to beat anyone of any skill level over the air.

Maybe you like watching our "quarterback" scramble for 3 yards on a 3rd and 6 because he's too chickenshit or scared or what the fuck ever to throw the ball to a receiver, but personally that's not what I consider good football and I sure as shit don't understand why anyone would deem it acceptable.

You can say I'm a pessimist all you want, but if you actually watched today's game and thought we had any chance against a mediocre Division IA team, you'd be out of your fucking mind.

Also, if you want to see posts where I'm not negative, go look at any Green Bay Packer/Brett Favre related thread. I'd wager you're too much of an idiot to do so though.

After all, you think Marcus Stone is a good quarterback, and god knows that's a sign of mental retardation at the highest level.

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 3:42 AM. Reason : I'M A LITTLE DRUNK RIGHT NOW, SO KEEP THAT IN MIND, MORON]

Quote :

"I was expecting to see plenty of sets with Toney and Andre in the backfield."

fyi 22 is Baker
24 is Brown

You should pay more attention to the game, they were in there at the same time a whole bunch.

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 3:48 AM. Reason : .]

9/3/2006 3:42:07 AM

HAHAHAHA, how in the hell did anyone in this thread use passing and threat in the same sentence. Or even passing for that matter. It was amazing that App. got that INT on a pass to the right flat, it's the only spot that was thrown to, I wonder if they saw that coming????? There wasn't a single attempt over 7 yards.
John Dunlap (WR #1) could have stopped and done jumping jacks during his routes and still been open downfield. Terrible vision by Stone. I think this was the most boring football game that I've ever seen. Run, Run, Run, Punt.

9/3/2006 3:46:23 AM

i said it was gonna be 27-17

i wasnt that far off

9/3/2006 5:10:45 AM

some fucking retard behind me in section 7 kept complaining every time we ran the ball.

"WTF, ANOTHER RUN? THROW THE BAAAAAAAAALL"

and i was like "dude, you've SEEN marcus throw right?"

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 7:14 AM. Reason : ]

9/3/2006 7:14:25 AM

I dont know if it was a fluke day but I was watching Stone during warm-ups on some of the deep fade routes and he couldn't throw for shit. I mean like 6 receivers in a row he either over threw them or threw it out of bounds. even then I was like WTF???? and it seemed obvious when the game started. yes Im glad we won dont get me wrong but Im SERIOUSLY concerned about Stone's lack of vision on the field. I forgot who it was but we had a wide-out coming over the midding that had a good FIVE steps on the defender and while Stone was lookin in that general direction he turned and dumped it off. Made me sad I know this was a warm up game so Im hoping thats why the offense was vanilla. If I saw that damn handoff from the shotgun up in the middle for no gain one more time I was gonna be pissed. As people have said it wasn't until they bounced it outside that they got yards. We aren't gonna be able to do that as easily against better teams.

9/3/2006 7:19:45 AM

Ahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahhahahahahhaahahahaahahaahahahahaha

And to think that I was pissed for two weeks because I coudnt be home for this game.

9/3/2006 7:55:32 AM

yeah i dont like like the shotgun handoffs. it's cool having both backs out there, but put stone under center and line up in an i-formation or something. that shotgun shit is too easy to stop.

9/3/2006 8:29:30 AM

Quote :

" fyi 22 is Baker 24 is Brown You should pay more attention to the game, they were in there at the same time a whole bunch."

They only really did it in the first quarter. Afterwards, it was nonexistant.

9/3/2006 8:57:57 AM

I will withhold any real judgement (good and bad) until next week. This game afterall was a just a scrimmage. Anybody else notice that we only ran about 15 different plays? Seriously I bet Trestman only used about 1/4 of the playbook.

9/3/2006 9:09:51 AM

I wonder if our receivers get tired of running their routes every play and never have the ball thrown to them.

9/3/2006 9:15:14 AM

Some people amaze me with the stone loving going on, and can't seem to look at the picture from an overall perspective.

These I think are why people are mad.

1. Stones not a freshman he's had experience and still looks absolutely horrible.

2. Throwing for 44 yards is ridiculous, even on a bad day no other quarterback at even a halfway good d-1 school would throw for that few. Someone should see how much the UNC qb threw for.

3. Saying its one game is stupid, we all watched him for 6 games last year. Don't give me this stone is 5-1. NO Andre Brown, Mario Williams, Manny Lawson and the rest of the D were 5-1 marcus did hardly anything in those games. I could probably count his contributions on my fingers.

4. If he can't throw for more then 50 yards agaisnt app of all school, we'll get destroyed by acc schools.

5. Stop throwing out this passing being so great, he completed 50% of his passes and thats pathetic.

6. He has no poise in the pocket, even when he had plenty of time he lost it and ran all over like he had no offesive line at all.

So the moral is people aren't pissed cause of one lousy game, people are mad because after having and entire year to improve he seems to actually have gotten worse. Is everyone happy we won...of course we are, but that might be because this will be one of our few wins this season. Oh and i seriously doubt marcus will EVER throw for 300 yards, unless thats his season total.

9/3/2006 9:33:11 AM

IMO this was a very long boring game. But I'm glad we somehow won. Thanks defense.

9/3/2006 9:42:50 AM

i'm torn between "we played a lackluster game and only beat a Div 1aa team by 13 points omg the sky is falling we're going to be the worst team in nc state history" and "it's the first game of the season, that game is always going to be different, better until after the Akron game before passing judgement"

Quote :

"We have the softest schedule I have seen since I arrived at NCSU in 1999."

it's ranked somewhere around 25-30 in the nation last i checked (might have been moved down to the low 30s)... not much lower than UNC's actually... and besides, in 2002 (that great 11-3 year) we played TWO div 1aa teams, a navy team back when they were still sucking... in 2001 one we played Ohio, Indiana, and SMU (no wonder we got thumped by pitt that year).



[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 9:47 AM. Reason : .]

9/3/2006 9:43:05 AM

In the predictions thread here and on other sites (packpride), I didn't see many predictions that were "blowouts". Most people were right on target with the score.

9/3/2006 9:47:26 AM

Quote :

"IMO this was a very long boring game. But I'm glad we somehow won. Thanks defense."

The Soutehern Miss game last season was 10 times worst

we should have lost that game

9/3/2006 10:13:28 AM

Quote :

"this game left me wishing our quarterback was App State's because at least he could complete a pass downfield."

When the team you are playings QB is a D-IAA first time starter and hes carrying his team down the field, getting POPPED and DRILLED by the defense, puking, and still making great passes and plays...then you know that your QB should at least be stat padding...

turns out he got 40 yards off of passing, 40 yards...I could pass for more than that all I would have to do is know what Dunlaps route was and throw it ahead of him because EVERY time the kid was open downfield but Marcus was too busy running his bootleg to notice. Andre and Toney have carried him far enough, its time to put Justin or Daniel in and let them throw a decent pass.

Was it just me or did anyone notice how PERFECT that pass was from the APP. QB downfield to his wideout going towards the fieldhouse? thats how a deep ball is thrown, high to the outside of the defender and ahead of the WR. But Marcus cant even throw it 5 yards to hit his WR on a slant pattern, instead he throws it 5 feet high and makes our WR go up and get it. Im by no means throwing Marcus under the bus but its obvious that he is a great practice QB and a terrible in game player. If u are reading this Marcus I PRAY that u take this and prove me wrong next game against Akron and have a Peyton like day.

in conclusion, defense yet again looks awesome, Deraney is still the man...kicker of the year candidate...andif you want a touchdown, get it to andre brown

9/3/2006 11:10:51 AM

TOUCHBROWN

9/3/2006 11:13:52 AM

its funny how most of the time when you are burning a certain player people are like "stfu i'd like to see you out there, you couldn't do much better" but nobody's saying that in this situation because we probly COULD DO BETTER.

9/3/2006 11:34:48 AM

marcus stone might not have the best numbers.....but he does have one good stat....he is 6-1

9/3/2006 11:39:16 AM

no he isnt


THE TEAM is 6-1 with him at the QB position

Andre Brown and his defense won those games for him

9/3/2006 11:42:03 AM

^^goddamn it that's the stupidest fucking argument you people keep throwing out there.

WHAT DID STONE CONTRIBUTE TOWARDS THAT WIN?

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 11:44 AM. Reason : h]

9/3/2006 11:44:30 AM

http://www.newsobserver.com/1235/story/481942.html

great audio slide show

9/3/2006 11:56:49 AM

Yeah Stone often gets credit for that 5-1 run last year. But people tend to forget that he and Andre Brown came into the picture in the same game. If only Brown had been added to the mix at the Southern Miss game last year and Davis continued to start, we could have likely gone 5-1 anyway.

9/3/2006 11:57:23 AM

My favorite part of the game last night was that Rod Brind'Amour was within like 5 feet of me before the game

9/3/2006 12:10:32 PM

Quote :

"lol just goes to show how good our wrs are when when our best one is a hb naturally."

I don't agree with this at all.

Blackman may be our best WR and he may in fact be a HB naturally. But this guy is a fucking stud athlete and after seeing that one handed grab he made his freshman year I dont think there is any shame in having this guy as a #1 WR.

John Dunlap looked like an absolute stud his freshman year. He leaped off the screen when I watched him. If he has fully recovered from his knee injury he would likely start for most D1 schools.
We couldn't even get this fucking guy a single reception against a D-1AA school. He should have had 100 yards.

Lamart Barrett is not spectacular by any means, but he's a dependable WR.

Anthony Hill is a good pass catching TE.

What happened yesterday was disgraceful.

Blackman, D. 3 26 1
Bowens, D. 2 12 0
Baker, T. 2 -2 0


I mean you can not be serious.

Quote :

"I dont care about my stats, if we get the win I'm happy"

--- Marcus Stone

Such a noble team player that guy... but if you don't put up ANY stats, we aren't going to EVER get the win.

9/3/2006 12:26:20 PM

MARCUS STONE FOR HEISMAN

9/3/2006 12:30:15 PM

that says it all ^^

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 12:31 PM. Reason : dumb@$$^]

9/3/2006 12:31:05 PM

there is a lot of Stone bashing going on in this thread...

and while it's hard to defend him after the App. game, isn't he the best we've got?

are we going to keep calling for the head of whichever quarterback is under center until Rivers show up to play again?

9/3/2006 12:48:47 PM

I see most people missing a couple things about the game.

I think they were using this game just like a scrimmage. It was against the D1AA national champions so why not try out some things.

We didn't use an overly large playbook (already mentioned) so our plays were on the dull side.
- Andre and Tony in at same time.... straight run game, defense stopped it pretty well.
- Andre does over 100 yards does well, they take him out. good call, we don't want any injuries
- Tony baker in the backfield at tail back with Bedicks at full back
- Eugene in the backfield getting reps at tail back

It seems to me that this game was more about testing out a run game using three posible tailbacks and two possible full backs. I like it, we slowed the game down, ran it, killed the clock and still won the game.

Also, I have a feeling we haven't seen our passing game yet. Sure, Marcus Stone wasn't great last night, but he was decent. He didn't throw it deep, so what? We were testing out our run game. Also, the only thing he really threw out of was the single back when he was under center. I have a feeling that we have ALOT more passing plays out of shotgun and other formations that the offense didn't want to use and show to a D1AA team...

^ exactly, He isn't Rivers, but he is what we have. You don't have to be thrilled with him, but at least support him and give him the chance play well.

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 12:56 PM. Reason : ^]

9/3/2006 12:55:06 PM

well we didnt pass the ball because WE COULDNT!!!!

STONE IS NOT A PASSER, never has been, we ran the ball because its the ONLY THING WE COULD DO...

not to mention it limited turnovers and used teh clock


a little bit of history though that i dont understand Trestman has had Garcia and Vinny as well as Gannon so REALLY WELL under him and yet cant develop a QB yet, i dont understand that. guy was the 2002 coordinator of the year in NFL, why cant he run that Trest coast offense with a solid QB here?

9/3/2006 1:00:16 PM

One question.

Stone is always referred to as being 6-1 as a starter.


At the end of the season are people going to tout him as being 9-8 as a starter?

9/3/2006 1:08:46 PM

BETTER THAN JAY DAVIS

9/3/2006 1:47:48 PM

people people, State knows what they are doing...they got a plan, ofcourse they didnt do anything trick plays or shit that could hurt someone....we were playing a AA school...before we talk shit lets see how we play this season...and i think we might be the only school to bash on the team after a W

9/3/2006 1:57:20 PM

If anything i think we are underreacting.

Remember Philip's senior year when we beat some 1-AA team (richmond maybe) by like 40 and we were all like "holy shit our defense looks terrible?"

And then sure enough our defense was TERRIBLE and ruined our entire season.


Well this season our offense looks TERRIBLE sans Brown & Blackman (who we can barely even utilize b/c our o-line and QB are so ineffective) and our defense is untested (although they looked much better than i had anticipated they would)

We stink. 2-6 in the ACC.

9/3/2006 2:10:43 PM

I honestly wouldn't be shocked if we were 1-7 or 0-8 in the ACC though I suppose we do have talent enough to squeeze a few out..

** and I'm usually not one to be overly excited or overly critical.. I just don't see how this team is going to be good w/ NO passing game. If I'm an opponent stack the line and make Stone beat me... which I don't think he can do..

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 2:12 PM. Reason : x]

9/3/2006 2:11:25 PM

Quote :

"Remember Philip's senior year when we beat some 1-AA team (richmond maybe) by like 40 and we were all like "holy shit our defense looks terrible?" "

It was Western Carolina. We beat em' like 55-20 and everyone was ecstatic. I knew we were in trouble with that D-Line giving up 20 to Western Carolina....and we then proceeded to finish 110th in passing defense that year.

That was the game we did 4 straight passes to Tramain Hall so he could get a TD

9/3/2006 2:13:31 PM

Some good stats:

Defense:
133 Yds/G (#1 ACC)/(#7 NCAA)
67 Rush Yards (#2 ACC)/(#28 NCAA)
1.8 Rush Avg (#2 ACC)/(#17 NCAA)
16 Pass Att/G (#1 ACC)/(#8 NCAA)
5 Pass Comp/G (#1 ACC)/(#2 NCAA)
31.3 Pass % (#2 ACC)/(#2 NCAA)
66 Pass Yds (#2 ACC)/(#5 NCAA)

Offense:
206 Rush Yds (#3 ACC)/(#28 NCAA)
2 Rush TD (#2 ACC)(#28 NCAA)
3 Pen (#3 least ACC)/(#27 least NCAA)
20 Pen Yds (#3 least ACC)/(#14 least NCAA)
33:17 TOP (#3 ACC)/(#22 NCAA)
1 Sack (#2 least ACC)/(#25 least NCAA)

Special Teams:
28.3 KR Avg (#2 ACC)(#16 NCAA)

9/3/2006 2:16:03 PM

Yeah, um that would be good if half the ACC didn't play Big East schools or Notre Dame. Not exactly the same level of competition..

9/3/2006 2:16:58 PM

Are there any video highlights of the game out?

9/3/2006 2:27:05 PM

Quote :

"It was Western Carolina. We beat em' like 55-20 and everyone was ecstatic. "

Yeah thats right. A lot of people were really ecstatic. I remember you, me, stone, and maybe a few others pointing out that our defense looked like shit and it was going to be a disappointing season.

state fans are just delusional.

I was pleased with our defense though. They look like they will be an average or maybe even above average unit when I anticipated them perhaps being a little below average to average.

An average defense isn't going to get us anywhere this year though. The only games we'll win are the ones where Andre Brown scores on two 50 yard TD's, Blackman scores a special teams TD, and our defense causes a lot of turnovers....

If you can't convert a third down you cant win.

9/3/2006 2:36:33 PM

If Stone doesn't improve and Amato reacts to criticism similarly to last year, you can bet Burke will be starting before the season ends.

[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 2:55 PM. Reason : can't stress how happy I am about minimal penalties though]

9/3/2006 2:50:45 PM

Our offense is fucked if Stone keeps starting.

9/3/2006 2:57:19 PM

Not disagreeing with the Stone bashing.....but he is our starting quaterback for a reason. If the other two were any good wouldn't they have won the starting job.

9/3/2006 2:57:22 PM

Quote :

"If you can't convert a third down you cant win."

9/3/2006 3:01:30 PM

^^not necessarily. some coaches are loyal to their upper classmen. paterno was notorious for this for years. psu fans couldn't believe it when he started justin king and derrick williams last year.

9/3/2006 3:08:21 PM

Greco transferred becuase he wasn't going to see any PT at QB.

Do you know how bad you have to be to not see any PT at QB for NC State?

9/3/2006 3:12:29 PM

Quote :

"are we going to keep calling for the head of whichever quarterback is under center until Rivers show up to play again?"

We're going to call for a quarterback's head if he sucks. It's as simple as that.

Quote :

"We were testing out our run game. "

That's moronic. Why would we test out our running game, when it's the only aspect of our offense that has even remotely worked for the past 2 years.

We could only score yesterday because Andre Brown is faster to the corner than everyone on App, which won't be the case against ACC teams.

9/3/2006 3:13:14 PM

I feel bad for CHuck Amato, i really do.

He is taking an awful lot of criticism.

Now the criticsm when we collapsed in '02 and were overconfident in '03 were well deserved.

The criticism we took last season was well deserved too. Our defensive unit was severly underperforming and penalties were KILLING us for the first half of the year and Jay Davis ended up being the scapegoat for that.

But what is going to happen this year just isn't Chuck's fault. We have put together stellar offensive units in the past, stellar defensive units, attracted PREMIUM talent ( i mean seriously look at what we've put in the NFL the past five years), and overall we've shown a great deal of potential to build a program.

But you can make Pete Carroll our head coach, Norm Chow our OC, and Marvin Lewis our DC... hell even tack on Mike Ditka as our LB coach and you would still not be a good team with Marcus Stone at QB.

Now i know as the head coach, he is responsible for recruiting a good QB. But honestly, coming out of HS who the hell could have predicted that Stone would evolve into one of the WORST starting QB's in the country in his FOURTH season. He has a cannon arm, a little mobility, ideal size, etc. The problem is that a college playbook looks like the periodic table of elements to Marcus and he can't get past Helium.

Amato has already landed Justin Burke who will hopefully develop into a good (or at least adequate college starter). With an "adequate" (forget good) starter at QB we would have put together three really good seasons in the post-Philip era.

I'm willing to give Amato the benefit of the doubt simply because I have never seen a worse QB situation than what he's been dealt the last three seasons.

I am by no means a huge Amato fan or ardent supporter, I'm just trying to give the guy a fair shake.



[Edited on September 3, 2006 at 3:34 PM. Reason : a]

9/3/2006 3:18:27 PM