^^nutsmackr you cannot ignore that iraqi's and afghani's have more human rights than they did 5 years ago

^

Quote :

"why you thought the world was safer without Saddam."

because he was dangerous to surrounding countries and now he is not

9/20/2006 12:09:46 PM

Ah, yes ... thank you ...

Indeed he was dangerous to Kuwait ... But, I don't think anyone would have complained if he took over Iran ...

9/20/2006 12:13:27 PM

Quote :

"you cannot ignore that iraqi's and afghani's have more human rights than they did 5 years ago"

Yep, now they have the right to set a car bomb in a market. There are few nations on this Earth that respect rights to such a degree !

9/20/2006 12:31:07 PM

dont even worry about those other dumb rights, like the right to vote

9/20/2006 12:33:26 PM

Quote :

""If you have an "Americans should only worry about America" mentality then thats fine...but America doesn't have that policy, so don't ask me why we defend them""

If you really think that this war was a humanitarian effort, WHERE THE FUCK ARE THE INVASIONS OF MULTIPLE AFRICAN COUNTRIES WITH FAR WORSE ACTS OF GENOCIDE?????

If this war was about protecting the Kurds, why did the powers that be hide behind the "WMD threat?"

There was NO just cause for this war, meaning that there was no immediate threat to our sovereignty. Your tax dollars and mine were fucking wasted, not to mention thousands of American lives. If you were truly a conservative and not just a partisan clown, you'd get this.

9/20/2006 12:35:04 PM

partisan clown, huh? i'm not the one who just brought up WMDs for the billionth time

America has been nation building for over 60 years...dont act like this is some kind of surprise

sure we're selective...we'd rather nation build places with tyrannical rulers and resources...iraq instead of haiti

course "immediate threat to our sovereignty" seems like too confined a definition considering muslim fundamentalists declared war on the US...what would you give as an example as an immediate threat to our sovereignty? nothing short of battleships and fighter planes by uniformed soldiers attacking our homeland?

ps: Iraq/Saddam tried to assassinate Bush Sr...would you be more likely to support this current war if he had tried to assassinate W? Clinton? Reagan? Carter? Ford? Nixon? Johnson? Kennedy? is an assassanation attempt on our President any time of threat to our sovereignty?

9/20/2006 12:41:34 PM

wait I thought you said this was about the kurds.

9/20/2006 12:49:18 PM

I'd encourage everyone to just take a pause to realize the hilarity that is a TreeTwista post. Surely, there are more interesting things today on the intArweb than this guy?

9/20/2006 12:54:25 PM

^State####...how appropriate...I don't see any hilarity in my post...maybe you could point it out since not everybody is as dumb as you

^^hey to paraphrase you, whats up with your inability answer the simple question of what is an example of an immediate threat to our sovereignty? I mean you kept giving me shit for responding to all the other people asking me questions but I got around to you...I don't think anybody else in here is pestering you for answers

9/20/2006 12:56:00 PM

reading this thread, I think I am a republican somewhere between BobbyDigital and TreeTwista10

9/20/2006 12:58:46 PM

Quote :

"sure we're selective...we'd rather nation build places with tyrannical rulers and resources...iraq instead of haiti"

Wait...? So, who is the hypocrit?

Bobby asked you over and over again why we don't aid those in far worse situations than the Iraqis, and your reply is they don't have resources?

I'd be a little nervous with each and every post I made if I clowned myself as much as you do. I guess ignorance is indeed bliss.

Quote :

"ps: Iraq/Saddam tried to assassinate Bush Sr...would you be more likely to support this current war if he had tried to assassinate W? Clinton? Reagan? Carter? Ford? Nixon? Johnson? Kennedy? is an assassanation attempt on our President any time of threat to our sovereignty?"

We probably should have declared war on ourselves since one of our own took out Kennedy. What about the guy that attempted to murder Reagan?

Quote :

"course "immediate threat to our sovereignty" seems like too confined a definition considering muslim fundamentalists declared war on the US...what would you give as an example as an immediate threat to our sovereignty? nothing short of battleships and fighter planes by uniformed soldiers attacking our homeland?"

This is just a strawman. Who cares about examples of an immediate threat. You are focusing too much on wording. The bottom line is, Saddam was no more a threat to us after 9/11 than he was before 9/11, with or without WMDs that we now know weren't even there.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 1:09 PM. Reason : x]

9/20/2006 1:02:22 PM

Quote :

"I'd encourage everyone to just take a pause to realize the hilarity that is a TreeTwista post"

whats hilarious about it? its the truth...whats ignorant about admitting it? doesnt change the fact that the world is a safer place with saddam out of power

but i guess i would be reaching for whatever i could though if i were like you and was completely oblivious to the fact that Saddam killed 50,000+ Kurds

keep calling me a clown instead of making any worthwhile contribution whatsoever...after all your confidence is so fucking high in the real world that it actually takes a hit when you log into this site

Quote :

"one of our own took out Kennedy. What about the guy that attempted to murder Reagan? "

you think Oswald acted alone? no mafia? no Cuba? the guy that attempted to murder Reagan got locked up...his name is John Hinkley...but I'm sure you know all that...let alone the fact that you're ignoring my question about whether or not an assassination attempt on our President by another country is justified means for war

Quote :

"Who cares about examples of an immediate threat"

everybody except you

9/20/2006 1:08:07 PM

Quote :

"doesnt change the fact that the world is a safer place with saddam out of power"

Oh, so this is a fact? Please steer me to a collection of these facts, I'd like to read em!

Quote :

"let alone the fact that you're ignoring my question about whether or not an assassination attempt on our President by another country is justified means for war"

No it isn't a justified means for war. If the president is worried about being killed via this mechanism, don't visit the Arab areas where the people hate us and would try to pull a stunt like that. In your mixed up muddled world, you think it is perfectly reasonable to spend untold billions, end the lives of untold thousands of our soldiers causing irrepairable damage to their families, and doing the same to plenty of innocent civilians in the target countries, over an assasination attempt on foreign soil?

9/20/2006 1:15:06 PM

Quote :

"The bottom line is, Saddam was no more a threat to us after 9/11 than he was before 9/11"

Oh, so this is a fact? Please steer me to a collection of these facts, I'd like to read em!

9/20/2006 1:16:11 PM

He didn't have WMDs immediately before 9/11 in the lead up to war, he didn't have them after. Seems like the threat level must be about the same. His ability to wage war against us (not to mention his neighbors) was practically non-existing, as evidenced by how quickly we toppled his pathetic regime. You should know these facts by now.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 1:29 PM. Reason : fixed it for the water baby trolls among us]

9/20/2006 1:18:17 PM

Quote :

"He didn't have WMDs before 9/11"

what about the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds? Oh yeah, you wouldnt know about those since you didnt know he killed 50,000+ Kurds

9/20/2006 1:20:07 PM

too bad that was 20 years ago. WHY ARE YOU LIVING IN THE PAST?!?!? (to use one of your standard lines)

9/20/2006 1:21:02 PM

State409c just said

Quote :

"He didn't have WMDs before 9/11"

I corrected him

Man I get a lot of shit for answering straight forward questions

9/20/2006 1:23:09 PM

This thread:

9/20/2006 1:26:31 PM

Quote :

"what about the chemical weapons he used on the Kurds? Oh yeah, you wouldnt know about those since you didnt know he killed 50,000+ Kurds"

I didn't know that having WMDs provided by the United States 20 years ago and no longer having them when the war started was the call for war. they did say, he had wmds as in the past tense, but he has wmds are in currently.

9/20/2006 1:26:59 PM

^State409c just said

Quote :

"He didn't have WMDs before 9/11"

I corrected him

Man I get a lot of shit for answering straight forward questions

you cant read for shit can you...fucking 3 minutes ago and you're clueless

9/20/2006 1:27:36 PM

Quote :

"that you're ignoring my question about whether or not an assassination attempt on our President by another country is justified means for war"

Sure it is, but when that war begins several years later and under completely different pretenses, it's a bit ludicrous to leverage that.

9/20/2006 1:30:06 PM

I fulfilled my factual obligations, you wanna fulfill yours

Quote :

""doesnt change the fact that the world is a safer place with saddam out of power" Oh, so this is a fact? Please steer me to a collection of these facts, I'd like to read em!"

And let's be clear

it is former President...arguably quite a bit different than current.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 1:32 PM. Reason : a]

9/20/2006 1:30:24 PM

shit seems pretty safe over there

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/09/20/iraq.main/index.html

OH WAIT

9/20/2006 1:31:36 PM

^^^well it definitely began years later...doesnt change the fact though

^^

Quote :

"I fulfilled my factual obligations, you wanna fulfill yours"

no i'm afraid you didnt

Quote :

"The bottom line is, Saddam was no more a threat to us after 9/11 than he was before 9/11 Oh, so this is a fact? Please steer me to a collection of these facts, I'd like to read em!"

^It's America's fault for the Iraqi suicide bombers that killed Iraqi civilians since we went to war over there after Saddam broke UN sanctions!

9/20/2006 1:32:02 PM

So Libya would be justified in declaring war against the US since we tried to assassinate Qadhafi in the 80's?

9/20/2006 1:34:54 PM

I suppose in your simpleton world of arguing (as pointed out by Bobo) "no you didn't" is a sufficient rebuttal to claims. I just gave several reasons to my argument. Do you want to risk an attempt to prove me wrong or would you be fine if we just leave it at "no you didn't"? Should I call my cousin to the thread to join the debte? He's in third grade, I think you'll be able to argue more effectively with him.

9/20/2006 1:35:01 PM

^^^what are you babbling about

i merely posted an up to date summary of all the safety taking place in iraq

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 1:35 PM. Reason : v]

9/20/2006 1:35:27 PM

^^hey genius...where is the collection of facts that say saddam was no more a threat to us pre and post 9/11? oh yeah, "no you didn't" post any facts

^^^actually they would have some justification...though i dont think Bush Sr is responsible for Pan Am 103, etc

9/20/2006 1:37:29 PM

Quote :

"where is the collection of facts that say saddam was no more a threat to us pre and post 9/11? oh yeah, "no you didn't" post any facts "

So you're asking for some official report from some official organization officially stating a claim I made? Is that what you need?

It is a known fact, that our justification for war with Saddam was bunk, that is, WMDs that didn't exist. Saddam a patsy in the terrorism game and the world now knows it. This is fact.

How about you provide some sort of evidence that he was a bigger threat to us after 9/11 than before rather than trying to dodge your responsibility to this discussion.



[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 1:42 PM. Reason : a]

9/20/2006 1:39:50 PM

are you that dumb? before i asked that, YOU asked:

Quote :

"doesnt change the fact that the world is a safer place with saddam out of power" Oh, so this is a fact? Please steer me to a collection of these facts, I'd like to read em! "

there are no official reports that can prove either side dumbass...holy shit you must be really confident in real life because you're too dumb to know any better

i say iraq is safer...you ask for facts and say its clearly not safer...i ask for facts

instead of realizing that both sides' only answers are opinions since you cant quantify something with that many factors, you harp on it as if you had proven something

9/20/2006 1:41:04 PM

so to be on the safe side, we should start a war.

9/20/2006 1:43:16 PM

You're either trolling or just a moron, both equally pathetic.

Quote :

"doesnt change the fact that the world is a safer place"

Quote :

"i say iraq is safer"

ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE WORLD OR ABOUT IRAQ. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ARE YOU THIS MORONIC? ARE YOU THIS FUCKING STUPID? HAVE YOU SMOKED YOURSELF SO STUPID THAT YOU CAN'T KEEP YOUR THOUGHTS ORGANIZED ENOUGH TO MAKE A COHERENT POST? FOR FUCKS SAKE.

I'm done with this thread.

[Edited on September 20, 2006 at 1:46 PM. Reason : a]

9/20/2006 1:43:46 PM

^^hey sarijoul, life isnt worth living if you dont have freedom right? but only in the US...in other countries, its better they live in police states, right?

^you are literally one of the dumbest people ever to post in soap box and thats saying a lot

9/20/2006 1:44:08 PM

i know you missed this thread tree, so here you are:

message_topic.aspx?topic=431372

so, the senate intelligence committee concludes no link to al-qaeda. strike that "threat" off the list

9/20/2006 1:44:15 PM

who's claiming a link to al queda?

9/20/2006 1:45:14 PM

it was a justification for war, was it not?

threat of saddam and al-qaeda working together to attack the united states. am i wrong?

9/20/2006 1:46:03 PM

^^^^well, if you have resources at least.

9/20/2006 1:51:52 PM

im not even going to elaborate, rockefeller was right, end of story.

9/20/2006 5:09:34 PM

Quote :

"ARE WE TALKING ABOUT THE WORLD OR ABOUT IRAQ. JESUS FUCKING CHRIST ARE YOU THIS MORONIC? ARE YOU THIS FUCKING STUPID? HAVE YOU SMOKED YOURSELF SO STUPID THAT YOU CAN'T KEEP YOUR THOUGHTS ORGANIZED ENOUGH TO MAKE A COHERENT POST? FOR FUCKS SAKE. "

ok, somehow I'm the troll even though other people post this shit about me...yeaaaah

State409c why must you resort to name calling and cursing just because you can't make a single rational point?

9/21/2006 9:32:46 AM

Once again we go down this path. Everyone, including the administration, knows the war in Iraq as executed was a massive mistake. The original quote is correct, the world would be more stable and safer had we not invaded Iraq and devoted those resources to Afghanistan. Would people been tortured and killed in Iraq? Yes. But that happens in half of Africa and southeast asia yet I don't see anyone batting an eye over their plight.

Furthermore, we wouldn't have agitated the entire islamic world and we'd have been in a very strong position to pursue military action against Iran if they indeed did get Nuclear weapons.

9/21/2006 9:50:14 AM

[TreeTwista]
But, the Iraqis are free and Iraq is safer. You're an idiot if you can't see that.
[/TreeTwista]

[Edited on September 21, 2006 at 10:04 AM. Reason : a]

9/21/2006 10:03:57 AM

[State409c]
Under Saddam's control, were Kurds systematically being murdered/tortured? I really don't know much about the Middle East at all
[/State409c]

9/21/2006 10:09:27 AM

[Austin Powers]
Scotty doesn't get it!
[/Austin Powers]

9/21/2006 10:12:08 AM

Yea but TreeTwistah, should we invade every nation in the world that tortures its citizens?

Because there are quite a few.

9/21/2006 10:15:01 AM

if we had enough time and resources we should

9/21/2006 10:33:21 AM

Even if it means enraging their neighbors and making the US less safe?

9/21/2006 10:45:03 AM

yes without a doubt

i think worldwide freedom and democracy in an optimal situation would be a lot more valuable than
enraging some neighbors

in the long run, the US and the whole world would be more safe

and how is the US less safe? have we been attacked since 9/11?

9/21/2006 10:47:38 AM

TreeTwista10 must really enjoy paying taxes.

9/21/2006 10:47:53 AM

i'd rather pay taxes that help our national security than taxes that put up new museums or other crap

its not like we're going to stop paying taxes anytime soon, wartime or not

9/21/2006 10:48:31 AM