^^It is a game of skill. Sure, there is some luck involved, but the entire game is not ENTIRELY onbased on luck or chance. Its not like going and scratching off a lottery ticket, or rolling dice.

10/2/2006 10:27:12 PM

If it was purely a game of chance, the person who is dealt the best hand would always win.

10/2/2006 11:08:01 PM

I guess that's why rank amateurs have won the championship every year for the last 4 years running.

10/2/2006 11:08:58 PM

I assure you that if I'm dealt a pair of aces on every hand then it will be quite hard to outplay me.

10/2/2006 11:09:54 PM

Quote :

"we want to assure you that Full Tilt Poker is legally regulated and licensed to offer its services to anyone around the world "

ell


ohhh


ell




(and that is comming from one of the biggest online poker supporters on this site

10/2/2006 11:10:39 PM

Guess it's time to get a real job boys.

10/2/2006 11:11:32 PM

^^^ none of what you said implies that poker is purely a game of chance.

^ most of us do have real jobs, and get paid pretty fucking well.

10/2/2006 11:12:20 PM

Then you'll be intelligent enough to realize that the comment was directed at those who try to make a living at playing it.

I have nothing against it as a hobby.

10/2/2006 11:19:45 PM

Quote :

"Then you'll be intelligent enough to realize that the comment was directed at those who try to make a living at playing it. "

10/2/2006 11:26:10 PM

Forgive me.

I actually have to deal with people I've known for a while who want to move to Reno/Vegas and pursure this as a career.

It is severely disappointing.

I would have to believe that the fact that there is so much literature out there and so many people being drawn to poker now that it would be much harder to cash consistently to make a decent living.

Then again, I'm practical.

10/2/2006 11:29:01 PM

How about you tell that to Jon Turner.

Quote :

"I would have to believe that the fact that there is so much literature out there and so many people being drawn to poker now that it would be much harder to cash consistently to make a decent living. "

In tournaments, possibly. But in cash games, this makes it even easier and even more profitable that there are so many more bad players in the game.

[Edited on October 2, 2006 at 11:31 PM. Reason : n]

10/2/2006 11:30:14 PM

^ thats the stupidest logic ive ever heard. think about how many books there are on every subject, and how many stupid people are in this world?

its a game of skill. let your friends go play and experience it themselves.

10/2/2006 11:35:07 PM

Quote :

"I actually have to deal with people I've known for a while who want to move to Reno/Vegas and pursure this as a career."

Hey genius, won't banning online poker encourage this?

10/2/2006 11:37:39 PM

but hey, she's practical!

10/2/2006 11:42:46 PM

coincidence?

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/Story.aspx?guid=%7BACBCF245%2D165E%2D42FF%2DB640%2DCF433903E0E9%7D&siteid=

i think not.


nothing to see here ladies and gentlemen, your politicians are for sale, that's all, move along move along now...

10/3/2006 12:51:57 AM

Neteller is offshore and legit, and I am leaving my money there. Government can go fuck themselves, maybe that way they'll stay out of my business

10/3/2006 1:02:19 AM

^^^^Actually, no, banning it won't do that. The fact that it's available online is what makes it more popular,
which makes more people believe they should move to certain cities in order to do it in person...

Do you understand?

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 1:07 AM. Reason : ?]

10/3/2006 1:06:49 AM

What you don't seem to understand is that people who are good at poker won't just stop playing if they do manage to effectively ban it online. Casinos will see a lot more traffic and more illegal home games will start up.

You can't just undo the poker boom overnight. Television shows and online sites have made it more popular in recent years, but the game has been around longer than either. Where there's a will, there's a way.. and for a lot of people the logical solution will be to move close to a casino.. or to Canada




[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 2:00 AM. Reason : .]

10/3/2006 1:59:16 AM

my thoughts from the other thread

Quote :

"i really wont miss online poker i hate playing even though it has been profitable for me. good riddance a lot more online donks will get eaten alive in live cash games "

10/3/2006 2:09:26 AM

I'm moving to Canada.. land of the freeeeeeee




But seriously, party poker banning US players is a huge deal. They had a huge market share of a huge industry, they wouldn't fuck themselves in the ass if they didn't have to. I'm hoping/praying that the casino side or their business is what is fucking them over, and other sites without that problem will welcome the customers party has shut out. A lot of the language in this bill is directed at non-poker gambling where you aren't playing against the house(partycasino/888), and even more of it is directed at banks and deposit methods for these sites, which would just make it hardfor fish to lose their money. So we'll just have to wait and see what happens by the end of 270 days from when this becomes a law. See if there are any work arounds, how it is enforced, etc. If they really suceed in making online poker obsolete in the US, I will be deeply dissappointed in this country and govenment.






[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 2:30 AM. Reason : .]

10/3/2006 2:28:25 AM

From what I have read, the playing of poker for money online isn't going to be illegal, but its going to be illegal for the banks here to interact with the poker sites, something they really don't do right now anyway.

10/3/2006 2:32:44 AM

That's what I've been hearing for weeks, but the fact that party banned US players is what really has be concerned. Their stock got KILLED today, why would they do that to themselves if they didn't absolutely have to? If you've ever dealt with party, you know they are pretty fucking stupid.. but come on, they ain't stupid enough to give up millions unless had to.

10/3/2006 2:37:26 AM

Yeah, thats what I don't understand either. Full Tilt though seem to be standing firm that they aren't budging, so who knows whats up.

10/3/2006 2:39:08 AM

jen harman is on full tilt talking to some railbirds(myself included) and she is saying that rumors are that stars didnt protect themselves against something like this and they could be going down.

10/3/2006 2:39:38 AM

idk what the hell that means th0

10/3/2006 2:44:23 AM

Yeah I like how Full Tilt has stuck only to Poker, and not forms of gambling like casino games and sportsbetting.

10/3/2006 2:48:45 AM

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2006-10-02-internet-gambling-usat_x.htm

Quote :

"Senate Republican leader Bill Frist of Tennessee tacked the bill on to the popular Safe Port Act bill on Saturday, before Congress went into recess for November's elections."

That fucking bastard

10/3/2006 7:48:09 AM

Quote :

"The $12 billion online gambling industry could turn into a house of cards now that the Congress has passed a law banning the use of credit cards, checks and electronic fund transfers for Internet gaming, industry experts warn."

thats the first line from that link.. any WoW players see any changes in billing from this? I know that my game, UO, has completely renewed their billing method... (well EA has cuz they run UO)

10/3/2006 7:51:47 AM

Okay so my buddy has a friend who works for a sportsbook in the Dominican.

He called him last night to see what their deal was.


He told him that they will be unaffected by the new law because when you wire money you dont wire it to the sportsbook anyway. You just wire the money to a guy who lives in the Domincan and he tells the sportsbook to credit your account. When you withdraw they just give another guy money and he wires it back to you.

They said the only thing it will change is their policy with credit cards and checks but they should be able to get around the western union/wiring problems.

Take it for what its worth, the guy of course isnt going to say "we're screwed stop betting $5K a weeek here!!!"

ANd its not like he really cares if one of us gets charged with a felony over it either

10/3/2006 9:47:59 AM

rally, keep in mind its not targeted in anyways towards the players.

just trying to stop the players ability to have the means of playing.

10/3/2006 10:07:26 AM

It doesn't seem that politicians want to criminalize playing poker online. Therefore, I think that this is only temporary. There's too many intelligent people/professionals playing for this to fly for long.

I really think that this is just a temporary knee-jerk response that might be an inconvenience for the next few years but after that it shouldn't be too bad.

I guess that the perception is that playing poker isn't americana like horse racing/sportsbetting but that will change seeing how it is mostly a harmless habit.

10/3/2006 10:15:01 AM

Out of curiousity, since I don't know, are there any major online casinos based in Europe? I have to believe that those would be American friendly.

10/3/2006 10:16:50 AM

Quote :

"I guess that the perception is that playing poker isn't americana like horse racing/sportsbetting but that will change seeing how it is mostly a harmless habit. Out of curiousity, since I don't know, are there any major online casinos based in Europe? I have to believe that those would be American friendly."

and sports betting is still discretely illegal, no?

There are many european run casinos, but most are based out of countries with really small, pliable governments.

areas like cyprus or quatar.

10/3/2006 10:23:18 AM

You're right of course. I just think that historical perception slants it tremendously.

Office pools are in many places looked upon favorably while poker dates back to dudes getting shot in saloons. They're really the on the same "ethical" level whatever that means.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have to believe which almost a whole generation playing poker and watching it on ESPN(....at least it's not dominos) the perception will change and the grip will loosen on trying to prevent transfer of funds to offshore casinos.

I understand why everyone is upset but I think that it's just a knee-jerk thing.

10/3/2006 10:27:55 AM

players arent upset over the "law," seeing as how it has been technically illegal since its inception. All of like 2 people have been indicted for playing online in the united states, out of the millions that play regularly.

what players are upset about is account closures due to companies fearing for US prosecution of them. Thats a real problem.

Say you're a professional e-bayer, then you lose your privledge to have an account on the site, due to a governmental restriction. Effectively, the governement is firing you. a parallel.

the other thing that upsets serious players is more the accessability for new players comming into the poker world. That was the beauty. In minutes you could go from your couch to have a new acount set up and be playing for real money. a constant refresh of new blood and cash in the market is essential to the viability of sustainable income from poker play. This goes for home games and casinos, be it brick and mortar casinos or online.

everyone knew that the bubble would burst soon, most long time, long hour players had seen it essentially comming for years. we all knew it was basically a fairy land as the landscape stood then. it was a matter of time till we got bust.

due to the newfound inaccessabilities, the popularity is going to decrease, no questions asked. that was the allure. anyone could become a good poker player, hell maybe even be on tv. you didnt need to be genetically gifted, just somewhat logical and patient. you cant work your way into the NFL being a 5'9" scrawny white guy with no atheletic ability.

poker you could.

10/3/2006 10:44:12 AM

Im still kinda pissed on how Frist snuck it in. You'd think if it was so important and such big deal, you'd think he wouldn't have to be a fucking sleaze ball and attatch it to a Homeland Security bill dealing with the ports. And why the fuck aren't they banning Fantasy sports too? I guess it all comes back to the fact they get a piece of the action on that with taxes etc...Fantasy Sports is more of gambling than playing poker is.

10/3/2006 10:49:25 AM

What exactly constitutes a fantasy sport? How is picking the winners of sporting events each week different from picking which atheletes will put up the most numbers each week?

Why is horseracing exempt?

Am I wrong in assuming all of this applies to sports books as well or is it just poker?

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 11:29 AM. Reason : ]

10/3/2006 11:26:17 AM

Its all "gambling" websites. So how fantasy sports aren't considered gambling, I do not know.

I can understand them going after online casinos and sportsbooks, that is oviously straight GAMBLING, but poker should be exempt since it is the one that does involve some sort of skill.

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 11:42 AM. Reason : .]

10/3/2006 11:40:56 AM

looks like crypotologic decided that noon today was their cutoff for us players.

10/3/2006 1:03:34 PM

looks like crypotologic decided that noon today was their cutoff for us players.

10/3/2006 1:05:04 PM

I read somewhere that most sites are just doing it as a precaution since all this pretty much came out of nowhere since that fuck snuck it in an a totally unrelated bill. William Hill said they will probably reopen to US customers once they see what their options are.

10/3/2006 1:41:42 PM

ive been banned from will hill for years anyways

10/3/2006 1:44:34 PM

I think its only a matter of time before another senator sneaks something onto a major bill excluding online poker from this current bill. When you are talking about a billion dollar a year industry, they aren't just gonna close up shop to their biggest market. I wouldn't be as pissed about all this is that fuck face Frist didn't sneak it onto a fucking Homeland Security bill. So next time, the exclusion needs to be attatched to something major too. I can't believe this whole thing is being fucked up because some hick senator from TN doesn't like it. Sure there are opponents to it, but its hardly been a big issue anywhere and for anyone. The bill should be able to hold its on ground alone, something it never did the previous 3 times, so the fucker had to get sneaky and piggy back it on something he knew they couldn't reject.

Quote :

"“Gambling is a serious addiction that undermines the family, dashes dreams, and frays the fabric of society. Congress has grappled with this issue for 10 years, and during that time we’ve watched this shadow industry explode. For me as majority leader, the bottom line is simple: Internet gambling is illegal. Although we can’t monitor every online gambler or regulate offshore gambling, we can police the financial institutions that disregard our laws.” "

Thats his press release after getting it approved. So it has nothing to do with the players or the poker sites. They should all be back up and running I would think once they realize how much money they are losing without the US and that the bill isn't going after them or the players. And I am sure many out of country stores are going to pop up on the Internet where you can buy credits for the poker sites or something.

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 2:01 PM. Reason : mn]

10/3/2006 1:57:22 PM

Quote :

"PartyGaming said in a statement, "If the President signs the act into law, the company will suspend all real money gaming business with U.S. residents.""

10/3/2006 1:59:15 PM

Yeah, and once they realize 80% of the profits are gone, they are gonna open it back up.

Also, something that hasn't been brough up and I read in the Full Tilt forums....is that the ones that are refusing US play, Party, 888, etc, are traded companies on the London Stock Exchange and could be delisted for violating laws. Supposedly the private ones will remain active to US players. UB, Absolute, Full Tilt, Bodog, etc...

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 2:15 PM. Reason : ,.]

10/3/2006 2:01:58 PM

^^^ Dude, why the fuck is some senator going to care about a billion dollar business? None of that business is helping the U.S. at all. its all going overseas...if anything that bill helps the US economy



[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 2:22 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2006 2:21:58 PM

i think it's funny that some people are whining about this...get and do something, you lazy douchenozzles

10/3/2006 2:26:46 PM

^^See, its idiots like you who have no clue whats going on. All the money isn't going overseas, and the US sees a lot of it. The majority of online poker players are in the US. So the money just re circulates within the US between players. Sure some, well alot of it leaves the country in terms of rake, tourney entry fees, and going to players in other countries, but its nowhere near what stays here or is won by US players. And we are whining because its a bullshit bill and the fact that I love to play poker in my spare time.

btw, Senators will care when some of the major sites start throwing some money their way.

[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 2:37 PM. Reason : m]

10/3/2006 2:36:53 PM

dude what the fuck are you talking about...for one thing, all of the players arent from the us...and also even if its just us players...the us economy is not gaining a fucking thing...they are losing everytime someone plays with the rake...even though the money may be going back to a us player..the poker site still took the rake money out of the us economy never to return...im not saying im agreeing with the bill...im saying youre a fucking idiot

10/3/2006 2:50:10 PM

^ he has a point, US poker players as a whole are definately in the red.


side rant: Hence I've always thought it was silly for them to try and tax the winning poker players, part of a group of people who are losing money. They sure as shit won't give money to losing poker players, "you can't have it both ways"(I'll just put that whole statement in quotes because clearly you can, if you happen to be the US government). And finally, some fucking balls they have to actually tax the guy who wins the lottery, the biggest sucker bet of them all.




[Edited on October 3, 2006 at 3:32 PM. Reason : .]

10/3/2006 3:32:10 PM