Naw man.

Let them have that argument.

Maybe then someday when it's made illegal they can STFU.

5/4/2007 4:21:14 PM

How many people on here know someone who has had an abortion or been in that situation?

Hypothetical situations are all well and good, but until you've been in that situation, there is a lot you don't know.

5/4/2007 4:31:19 PM

I've known several who've had em. Two multiple times, and one of them aborted twins.....for no other reason than they didn't want them.

5/4/2007 4:33:51 PM

I know several and have family members that have had them.

Most now regret them.

5/4/2007 4:36:02 PM

I know some people who didn't have them and regret that

5/4/2007 4:37:23 PM

Heh.

5/4/2007 4:41:34 PM

I've known at least 2. One was in therapy for 3 years afterwards because "she was evil and didn't deserve to live" after aborting her baby (her words, not mine). Both of them regret it and refuse to talk about it. Both are pro-lifers now.

As for your people that regret not having one. I doubt they would have felt any different had they had one. Later in life, I'd be suprised if they weren't happy that they didn't have an abortion.

5/4/2007 4:55:17 PM

Quote :

"I'm sure that all of the disabled people in the world would be very happy to hear that they are leading a low quality life and that you'd be more than happy to put them out of their misery. "

No, I'm saying that with certain testing and informed decisions some of them could have never lived a miserable life to begin with.


Here's a for instance of someone with normal intelligence:
http://www.somethingawful.com/d/news/im-here-ruin.php

Would you seriously wish something so cruel as to have a person live like this if there was a way to stop it before it even began?




And some of you all who are saying that by aborting a fetus, the woman is avoiding the consequences of her actions, that's bullshit. In her case the abortion is the consequence. You're making it sound as if the procedure is like going out for ice cream or something.

5/4/2007 5:07:10 PM

Did you read through that website? The person that wrote it is a complete asshole. They talk about her website (which I can't access, it goes to the FBI) and the comments from the nurse and mother. Comments like the little girl is God's gift. That doesn't sound like someone who wanted an abortion or regrets not having it. And how do you know what that little girl's life is like? How do you know she is unhappy or happy? You assume things based upon your experiences which are completely irrelevant to her. She is not the first child born that way. There have been a lot of surgical advances that help children born that way to look more normal. Plus, for all you know she may fall in love with a blind man who isn't going to give a damn how she looks. One thing is for sure though. That girl probably knows cruelty and probably has one of the best and sweetest personalities you'll find. I would consider taking that away from today's world as quite a loss. Facts are facts. You cannot use this little girl as an example of why abortions should be allowed without knowing her opinion. Does she wish she'd never been born? Does she feel her life is horrible? Assuming doesn't work. If she commits suicide or writes a book about how horrible her life is, then you can use her as an example. Until then, don't be another asshole to assume something about her because of her appearance. That makes you no better than the prick calling her a monster in that article.

In today's world, suicide is easy. If all of these people are leading miserable lives (i.e. much more bad than good), don't you think the suicide rate of disabled people (in all aspects, mental, physical, etc.) would be close to 100%? Since it's not, how can you assume that their lives are, in fact, miserable. If you can't assume that their lives are miserable, how can you assume that aborting them would have been the right choice? As I implied before, I'm sure most of them would be quite unhappy with the pro-choice crowd's implication that they should have been aborted. Besides, if quality of life matters so much, do you support euthenasia? If so, at what stage? Should we put all brain damaged people to sleep? If we go that far, why not all mentally retarded people? And how about the physically handicapped that can't lead your idea of a normal happy life? Really, what's the difference between a baby that *may* be born with abnormalities (many of them are not 100% correctly detected with both false positives and false negatives) and a 25 year old with Downs?

5/4/2007 6:38:16 PM

Quote :

"You know, the part where I "don't have equal legal rights".... Last time I checked, I do after birth"

That's exactly what I'm saying. Bitch all you want right now, if she gets rid of it, she's allowed to and you don't have rights to stop her.

Quote :

"Seriously, what would you do if your husband came home with a brand new car that he didn't tell you about? Would you care? Of course you would. The purchase of an object will probably bug the shit out of you yet you think that he has no right in the decision to end his baby's life. Good one. It's a good thing that nobody used logic when pro-choice was passed."

I never said any of that. I'm just telling you that you really don't have any say before it's born. Whether or not you think it's "fair" is irrelevant: take it up with the courts. If it's not ever born, tough luck, asshole. (I also have no idea why I'd care if my husband bought a car if he wanted to pay for it with his own money: it's his car and money, he can do what he wants.)

Quote :

"Let's throw morals out of this and just start going by the letter of the law. I'm sure the world will be a much better place then."

You just argued that you'd be "responsible" if a cop pulled you over for speeding and you took the ticket, then you're saying the law system is completely wrong? Adorable. Neither of us truly think the law is perfect, so don't insinuate that I do. I'm just pointing out that women do have the right, despite your complaints. Whether or not they should have the right (especially towards the 9 month mark) is the kind of debate you want to have, but you refuse to accept that other people can have different moral compasses from you.

Quote :

"And you're right, my "nonsense" about responsiblity is exactly that. As long as there are people like you arguing that it's unacceptable to expect it, there will never be responsibility. So let's all just say "fuck it" and let people do whatever they want."

Yes, it's absolutely unreasonable to expect that these Christian morals are good for everyone and that everyone will follow them. It's not about responsibility: sometimes aborting a baby is more responsible than not, as you've even said.

Quote :

"It's skyrocketed? Great. So 100%? No? Shit, which ones do we kill then? I guess you're right though, we should just kill them all since SOME of them are suicidal and depressed."

I never advocated killing anyone: you said people in dire conditions would always prefer life to death. It doesn't seem to be the case.

Quote :

"Admit it, you have NO reasons why abortion should be morally supported, ESPECIALLY over the alternatives."

I just gave you three reasons, but none of them apparently met your "moral" quota because they were all about "convenience" to you. If this is again about morality, it's about how you define it. You're defining it more stringently than over 1.3 million women who had abortions last year.

Quote :

"Last time I checked, both stealing and murder are illegal. You feel that abortion is ok because it is "legal murder""

You still see abortion as "murder," so I can't argue with you about this any further.

You're still trying to force morality on people who sometimes didn't think they had any other choice. I'm in no way advocating abortions as the only means of birth control (and of course not a planned-future-use means of birth control), which seems to be why many of them occur. Regardless, there really are situations in which an abortion is completely within limits. It shouldn't be off the table completely because you think it's murder.

5/4/2007 6:58:05 PM

i say abortions before a certain period of being pregnant would be ok


you know, just to please both sides


even though both sides will never be pleased, it would just ease things

5/4/2007 7:08:44 PM

http://www.julianawetmore.net/

Quote :

"Did you read through that website? The person that wrote it is a complete asshole."

I cannot believe that he used sarcasm to get his point across. The last lines of his article: "Some should die so that they do not needlessly suffer. I think Juliana Wetmore lives so that the world suffers with her."

Quote :

" Assuming doesn't work"

Quote :

" and probably has one of the best and sweetest personalities you'll find."

careful with those assumptions.

Quote :

"In today's world, suicide is easy. If all of these people are leading miserable lives (i.e. much more bad than good), don't you think the suicide rate of disabled people (in all aspects, mental, physical, etc.) would be close to 100%"

seriously, don't get on my case about assuming things when the basis of your own argument is assumptions. Taking your own life isn't easy. Many depressed people are still afraid of death. Many mentally and physically disabled people logistically could not take their own life. But I will tell you one thing, if I had the choice to be born into this world a monster or braindead, I'd very quickly say no thank you.


I am not arguing whether or not disabled persons should be killed. Im only saying that if there is a way to prevent needless and intentional suffering, then it should be considered whether it's a severe handicap, or starving, or being born addicted to crack...or countless other scenarios.

[Edited on May 4, 2007 at 7:19 PM. Reason : s]

5/4/2007 7:18:39 PM

Quote :

" That's exactly what I'm saying. Bitch all you want right now, if she gets rid of it, she's allowed to and you don't have rights to stop her. "

What I'm talking about is your fucked up opinion that you DESERVE to choose what happens to MY child. Your egg is all nice and good. Your egg isn't going to do shit without my sperm (yeah, spermless zygotes in a lab are nice and all but I live in the real world). It's your opinion that's fucked up. The fact that you consider a child that you HELPED create as yours only is selfish, stupid, and completely retarded.

Quote :

" I never said any of that. I'm just telling you that you really don't have any say before it's born. Whether or not you think it's "fair" is irrelevant: take it up with the courts. If it's not ever born, tough luck, asshole. (I also have no idea why I'd care if my husband bought a car if he wanted to pay for it with his own money: it's his car and money, he can do what he wants.) "

That's funny. I'd really like to see you sitting there saying "Sure honey, it's ok that you just bought a new benz since you're paying for it. I'm sure the courts would love to hear that in case of divorce or if "he" defaults on the loan. And seriously, I'm the asshole? I'm not the dumb bitch that thinks she should be able to do whatever she wants since it inconveniences her. And I'd like to see you say "oh well, too bad he didn't agree with me wanting an abortion, I guess I'll just fall in love with someone else." I'm sure you'd be absolutely fine with that and not be upset at all, right?

Quote :

" You just argued that you'd be "responsible" if a cop pulled you over for speeding and you took the ticket, then you're saying the law system is completely wrong? Adorable. Neither of us truly think the law is perfect, so don't insinuate that I do. I'm just pointing out that women do have the right, despite your complaints. Whether or not they should have the right (especially towards the 9 month mark) is the kind of debate you want to have, but you refuse to accept that other people can have different moral compasses from you. "

Read much? Where did I say that the law is completely wrong or completely right? What I said is that I would accept responsibility for my actions. Whether I agree with it or not doesn't say a damn thing about accepting responsibility. I think the drug laws are completely stupid but if I get caught smoking weed, it's not anyone's fault other than my own. Just because the law is there does not make it right. However, just because you think it's dumb doesn't mean that you can bitch about it when you get caught either. Laws change all the time and hopefully this is one that will. What will you be saying then?

Quote :

" Yes, it's absolutely unreasonable to expect that these Christian morals are good for everyone and that everyone will follow them. It's not about responsibility: sometimes aborting a baby is more responsible than not, as you've even said. "

It's not about Christian morals. It's about fucking humanity. I don't care if you believe in God, Buddha, the tree fairy, or nobody, if you don't care about human life then you're a selfish bitch. And the only time where abortion is more responsible is when the mother's life is in danger. Possibly if the child would be born with a crippling disease reducing it's life expectancy significantly then I *may* support it. As a form of birthcontrol, fuck off. As a form of convenience, fuck off again.

Quote :

" I never advocated killing anyone: you said people in dire conditions would always prefer life to death. It doesn't seem to be the case. "

Yeah, you did. When you supported abortion due to the *UNKNOWN* quality of life that the child would lead. If it's ok to kill the baby, why is it not ok to kill the children or adults? At least with them their quality of life is known. And I never said "always". I said "most". If I need to buy you a dictionary, just let me know. Plus, the U.S. /= Africa. If you want to use it as an argument, shouldn't you at least use something relevant to our society?

Quote :

" I just gave you three reasons, but none of them apparently met your "moral" quota because they were all about "convenience" to you. If this is again about morality, it's about how you define it. You're defining it more stringently than over 1.3 million women who had abortions last year. "

You gave me three reasons that are bullshit. For an unknown quality of life where YOU decide that it's not worth living. Let them decide that. You apparently don't think you have the right to decide whether anyone else gets killed because of their KNOWN quality of life, what makes you feel that you have the MORAL right to decide to kill an unborn child with an unknown quality of life?
And unless I missed something, the "3" reasons you gave were (an unknown) quality of life, it's not illegal, and convenience.

Quote :

" You still see abortion as "murder," so I can't argue with you about this any further."

Well, you're still trying. And what do you call it? Ending the life of a living being is killing it, right? One of the definitions of murder is "to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.". Have you ever seen an abortion? I think it qualifies as somewhere between "inhumanly" and "barbarously". Sorry if I don't use a term that's more inaccurate but makes you feel better about your decision to take the life of a living thing.

Quote :

" You're still trying to force morality on people who sometimes didn't think they had any other choice. I'm in no way advocating abortions as the only means of birth control (and of course not a planned-future-use means of birth control), which seems to be why many of them occur. Regardless, there really are situations in which an abortion is completely within limits. It shouldn't be off the table completely because you think it's murder."

That is your most accurate statement yet. Unfortunately you should have stopped at "think". That's exactly the problem. They don't THINK. There are always other options. Unfortunately, they'd rather have an abortion and end the life of an innocent being rather than stand up and admit that they fucked up and offer the baby up for adoption. And by supporting abortion unconditionally, you are supporting abortion as a means of birth control. You admit your self that many (although I think we both know it's "most") abortions are birth control. And while I freely admit that it should not be off the table completely, you say it's perfectly ok the way it is now. I say that it needs to be changed and allowed under specific circumstances. You don't want your bullshit legal "right" to be fucked with even though you seem to believe that the majority (at least "many") abortions are immorally chosen due to birth control. How is it that I'm the asshole here? How is it that I'm the wrong one? It sure seems like you agree with my biggest argument whether you want to admit it or not.

5/4/2007 7:43:15 PM

Quote :

"I cannot believe that he used sarcasm to get his point across. The last lines of his article: "Some should die so that they do not needlessly suffer. I think Juliana Wetmore lives so that the world suffers with her." "

Yeah, he's an asshole. She makes him feel bad so he tries to use her as an example of why abortion is good. He then proceeds to post her pictures with labels of "Sitting horrid" and "Ready for Celllar." He's a dick. Plain and simple. Is it supposed to make me agree with him? Instead, I see him as one of the pricks that would probably stare at her, laugh at her, or insult her if he ran into her at the mall. And what exactly am I suffering by seeing this little girl? Reading about her, she seems to be the center of her mother's happiness. Am I supposed to be saddened by that? Am I supposed to hate her for being disfigured? Am I supposed to tell her to stop being happy because the world doesn't allow that for people that look like her? I don't get it.

Quote :

" careful with those assumptions. "

Why? My assumptions are based on the information given. Yours were based on your own opinion of what she looks like. Did you read her site? Did you notice the stuff about her being sweet? About her playing for the cameraman? I guess I missed the parts where she tried to commit suicide or talked about how hideous she was.

Quote :

" seriously, don't get on my case about assuming things when the basis of your own argument is assumptions. Taking your own life isn't easy. Many depressed people are still afraid of death. Many mentally and physically disabled people logistically could not take their own life. But I will tell you one thing, if I had the choice to be born into this world a monster or braindead, I'd very quickly say no thank you. "

As I stated above, my assumptions are basically reworded statements from the girl's mother. Yours were not. And for anyone that does not want to be part of this world, taking your life is very easy. For people who want attention, want things to change, or are going through lower levels of depression, suicide is hard. If these people's life is so horrible, I don't think they'd have a hard time deciding to end it. And all physically disabled people are not unable to take their own life. Anyone that is able enough to be left alone for any amount of time is more than likely able to use a knife to cut themselves. Most mentally handicapped people are more than capable of pulling the trigger on a gun. Hell, many of them have access to medication that would make an overdose easy. And it's not your choice whether you get to be born into this world or not. It was your mother's. Aren't you glad that she decided to have you? You don't have the right to say whether these people live or die. Most of them seem to choose life over death. Why do you assume that you have the right to decide what a baby would choose? Again, "quality of life" is a bullshit reason for abortion.

Quote :

" I am not arguing whether or not disabled persons should be killed. Im only saying that if there is a way to prevent needless and intentional suffering, then it should be considered whether it's a severe handicap, or starving, or being born addicted to crack...or countless other scenarios."

In a way you are arguing whether they should be killed. You cannot assume what your child's life is going to be like but by saying that choosing abortion because a child is going to have a poor quality of life is looking at these people and telling them that they should have been aborted. Do you think they'd agree? Babies are born every day addicted to crack and other drugs and develop into perfectly normal humans (I actually lost a friend in Iraq that was born 3 months premature addicted to cocaine). And how many babies are born in the U.S. that are at risk of starvation? Not many. Severe handicap? Define that. When is it ok to say "kill it"?

You people keep talking about me pushing my morals on people. Ok, fine. Why is it ok for you to push your standard of life on people? You think a baby should be aborted if it's going to be ugly. You think a baby should be aborted if it will grow up poor. You think a baby should be aborted if it will be born with a physical handicap. You think a baby should be aborted if it will be born with a mental handicap. Why? I know or have known at least one person from each of the above categories. Every damn one of them led a full and happy life. Was everything perfect? Of course not. Was your life perfect? Yeah, I didn't think so. Just because you think you have it better doesn't mean you do. It's just different. You also don't have to be born beautiful with 10 fingers/toes a 120 IQ and rich in order to have a happy fulfilling life. Why you people want to "prevent" this kind of "suffering" is beyond me.

[Edited on May 4, 2007 at 7:19 PM. Reason : s]

5/4/2007 8:06:26 PM

Quote :

"What I'm talking about is your fucked up opinion that you DESERVE to choose what happens to MY child. Your egg is all nice and good. Your egg isn't going to do shit without my sperm (yeah, spermless zygotes in a lab are nice and all but I live in the real world). It's your opinion that's fucked up. The fact that you consider a child that you HELPED create as yours only is selfish, stupid, and completely retarded."

I said you deserved that? I said what is currently legal. I'm not claiming you shouldn't have any rights, but as it is right now, you don't. As I said, if you want to change it, take it up with someone who can actually work toward fixing the law instead of bitching about it here.

Quote :

"I'd really like to see you sitting there saying "Sure honey, it's ok that you just bought a new benz since you're paying for it. I'm sure the courts would love to hear that in case of divorce or if "he" defaults on the loan. And seriously, I'm the asshole? I'm not the dumb bitch that thinks she should be able to do whatever she wants since it inconveniences her. And I'd like to see you say "oh well, too bad he didn't agree with me wanting an abortion, I guess I'll just fall in love with someone else." I'm sure you'd be absolutely fine with that and not be upset at all, right?"

What, a woman can't make a living on her own? She can't buy her own cars? I really don't see why I'd care if he bought a car with his own money. Seriously.
People get over being in love. If someone I loved told me I had to get an abortion when I wanted to keep the baby or told me I had to keep it when I wanted an abortion, it's really only up to me and my own body. I'll have to live with either choice for the rest of my life, regardless of what boyfriends come and go. I never said that'd be easy for anyone, but my god it'd be easier than pretending to be happy in a relationship with a guy who forced me into motherhood.

Quote :

"Well, you're still trying. And what do you call it? Ending the life of a living being is killing it, right? One of the definitions of murder is "to kill or slaughter inhumanly or barbarously.". Have you ever seen an abortion? I think it qualifies as somewhere between "inhumanly" and "barbarously". Sorry if I don't use a term that's more inaccurate but makes you feel better about your decision to take the life of a living thing."

Quote :

"If it's ok to kill the baby, why is it not ok to kill the children or adults?"

Your main problem is that you consider all abortion, even when the embryo is a small clump of cells, to be life. Not everyone agrees with you on that, so it's not "killing" for everyone, ergo it's not inhuman to everyone. I'm much more in favor of abortions if a woman chooses to have one in her first trimester for that very reason. It all depends on when you think life begins for that little clump of cells.

Quote :

"And by supporting abortion unconditionally, you are supporting abortion as a means of birth control"

Did I say I supported all kinds of abortion? I'm still only pointing out what is LEGAL in this country. Would I personally have an abortion? I don't know, I'd really have to think about it. Abortion in late stages is sickening to me, personally, but I'm not going to try and guilt trip another woman into something that's within her legal bounds. The only reason I picked on your statements in the first place is because you claim you would make a woman's life miserable if she even thought about aborting your baby.

Quote :

"It's not about Christian morals. It's about fucking humanity. I don't care if you believe in God, Buddha, the tree fairy, or nobody, if you don't care about human life then you're a selfish bitch. And the only time where abortion is more responsible is when the mother's life is in danger. Possibly if the child would be born with a crippling disease reducing it's life expectancy significantly then I *may* support it. As a form of birthcontrol, fuck off. As a form of convenience, fuck off again."

How dare you claim that I don't give a shit about human life because I feel that a woman should choose what to do about her own body. Of course I do. Killing (in the sense of murder) is inhumane, I agree. That doesn't make all abortions murder.

Quote :

"Laws change all the time and hopefully this is one that will. What will you be saying then?"

If they abolish abortion completely, I'll be bitching and moaning like you are right now.

[Edited on May 4, 2007 at 9:30 PM. Reason : .]

5/4/2007 9:29:49 PM

Gilmore: Up to 8 to 12 weeks abortions okay, after that not okay

Thompson: this potential pres has formal opinion, leave it to the states

Romney: I’ve been pro-choice, but I’ve always been pro-life. Cloning is wrong. Cloning is wrong!

Brownback: Life is beautiful.

Giuliani: I hate abortion, its wrong, so let each state make its own decision on this morally relative issue.



They all seemed to oppose abortion to varying degrees. Granted my versions of what they said was very abbreviated & not entirely fair, so I'm making it easy to watch what they actually said. But I find it hard to believe that so many republicans would say its a moral absolute, god says its wrong, and then in the same breath say let each state decide what’s morally right for them as if its relative.

5/4/2007 9:38:01 PM

Quote :

"How many people on here know someone who has had an abortion or been in that situation?"

I know someone who got one, hid it from all their friends and relatives, and laughs and boasts about it now. Good friend, but terrible human being.

5/4/2007 10:22:23 PM

i just had one thing to comment on cause this whole arguement will go absolutely nowhere.

Quote :

" She should be able to decide what is right for her and the fetus inside her. Pregnancy is difficult enough. I couldn't imagine going through 9 months of pain and joy and all the other emotions to give birth to a child that has no hope of survival. this is very sad - the topic at hand and the comments being made. While men are entitled to their opinion, they really have no idea what it's like to be pregnant or give birth and should stay out of this."

well, thats just silly. first of all you cant get pregnant yourself the baby is BOTH the womans and the mans. if you can accept support for you and the child after having it/ask for child support after divorce - i think its fair to say that you think the responsibility is shared. i would want SOME say in whether or not my gf/wife killed my child based on her own decision. women carry the child. period. thats a fact of natural life. no one can do anything about that. i dont think men should be completely left out of the say 'just because its your body' they should listen, but it should be a decision between both parents

5/4/2007 10:25:26 PM

it goes without saying that the woman's decision will completely change the course of the man's life as well.

If only it were as easy as the comic I posted on page 2...

5/4/2007 10:29:15 PM

Quote :

"Of course, if you *are* in Ireland, you have my sincerest apologies for misunderstanding you."

Oh shit, i commented on something that doesn't directly affect me. I'll make sure to not read the news from here on out, thx.

5/4/2007 10:32:21 PM

Ok I skimmed to see if anyone else had caught this and didn't see it but do they spell differently than we do or some shit???

Quote :

"Doctors have told the girl that her four-month foetus will not live more than a few days beyond birth."

Quote :

"Miss D was informed last month that her foetus has anencephaly, a condition which means that a large part of the brain and skull is missing."

I am not even getting in on this arguement because I don't feel like reading what everyone else has written.

5/4/2007 11:10:47 PM

Quote :

"They talk about her website (which I can't access, it goes to the FBI) "

Right-click, copy link location, then paste into the navigation field

5/5/2007 12:04:48 AM

Quote :

"A psychiatrist appointed by the HSE said that the teenager was distraught at the diagnosis, but not suicidal, and therefore did not meet the criteria for being allowed a termination."

This is what you get for being rational

5/5/2007 12:25:52 AM

"I'm living it up guys!"

5/5/2007 12:29:30 AM

I don't know about you but that picture is mighty humbling.

[Edited on May 5, 2007 at 12:37 AM. Reason : sp]

5/5/2007 12:37:03 AM

Quote :

"Police are preventing her from going to the UK"

GG freedom?



^^ HOLY FUCK

[Edited on May 5, 2007 at 1:11 AM. Reason : !]

5/5/2007 1:11:27 AM

Quote :

"I said you deserved that? I said what is currently legal. I'm not claiming you shouldn't have any rights, but as it is right now, you don't. As I said, if you want to change it, take it up with someone who can actually work toward fixing the law instead of bitching about it here."

Your first sentence makes no sense. I didn't say tha I deserve anything. I said that it's fucked up that you feel like you deserve to choose what happens to my child. And don't talk like you're only explaining the legal issue of it. You support it and that's exactly how you're arguing. With the way you've phrased it in your past posts, I think you'd have it no other way than it being the woman's choice with no say from the male. Plus, I'm not taking it up with you. I'm responding to your posts that were here before I got here.

Quote :

" What, a woman can't make a living on her own? She can't buy her own cars? I really don't see why I'd care if he bought a car with his own money. Seriously. People get over being in love. If someone I loved told me I had to get an abortion when I wanted to keep the baby or told me I had to keep it when I wanted an abortion, it's really only up to me and my own body. I'll have to live with either choice for the rest of my life, regardless of what boyfriends come and go. I never said that'd be easy for anyone, but my god it'd be easier than pretending to be happy in a relationship with a guy who forced me into motherhood. "

Last time I checked a woman is more than capable of making a living on her own. Last time I checked, the majority of married couples didn't split their earnings. Also men make more than women usually the last time I checked. If he buys a car it's probably not going to be *his* money. Even if it is, you would be the first spouse that I've met or heard of that had no problem with their significant other spending $30k+ without discussing it first. And nobody is talking about forcing you into motherhood. There's other choices which you are conveniently ignoring.

Quote :

"Your main problem is that you consider all abortion, even when the embryo is a small clump of cells, to be life. Not everyone agrees with you on that, so it's not "killing" for everyone, ergo it's not inhuman to everyone. I'm much more in favor of abortions if a woman chooses to have one in her first trimester for that very reason. It all depends on when you think life begins for that little clump of cells."

Abortion: Induced termination of pregnancy, involving destruction of the embryo or fetus.
Embryo: any multicellular animal in a developmental stage preceding birth or hatching
Fetus: the young of an animal in the womb or egg, esp. in the later stages of development when the body structures are in the recognizable form of its kind
Kill: to deprive of life in any manner; cause the death of; slay
The above are living things. Regardless of stage of development, an abortion is the death and removal of a living thing. To cause the death of a living thing is to kill it. It's not hard to understand. Abortion = Killing. People who don't agree with that are illiterate or retarded. If there is growth, forming, cells changing and growing, etc. then it is life. Ending life = killing. Even your "clump of cells" (which an embryo or fetus is much more than that as a clump of cells is nothing in particular) is life. Claiming otherwise is ignorant. I suppose that Pro-lifers just change meanings at will though "it's not killing because it's not alive yet... it's just changing and evolving and, you know, just *SEEMS* like it's alive".

Quote :

" Did I say I supported all kinds of abortion? I'm still only pointing out what is LEGAL in this country. Would I personally have an abortion? I don't know, I'd really have to think about it. Abortion in late stages is sickening to me, personally, but I'm not going to try and guilt trip another woman into something that's within her legal bounds. The only reason I picked on your statements in the first place is because you claim you would make a woman's life miserable if she even thought about aborting your baby."

No you didn't say you supported all kinds of abortion. Apparently you just oppose any change to the current laws. And if you don't oppose them, you support them. You obviously have refuted every point that we've made. Why do so if you do not support the current situation? I can't imagine a reason. You also need to read more carefully. I said that she would choose between me and the abortion. It was someone else that said they would make the woman's life miserable. Personally, I wouldn't want anything to do with the selfish bitch.

Quote :

" How dare you claim that I don't give a shit about human life because I feel that a woman should choose what to do about her own body. Of course I do. Killing (in the sense of murder) is inhumane, I agree. That doesn't make all abortions murder. "

Excuse me, you do give a shit about human life. You just place it below a woman's convenience. My mistake. I also defined murder in a previous post. How does abortion not fit the definition? It is life that is killed inhumanely. It is an innocent life that is killed. It is killed with premeditation. I suppose if you don't consider it to be murder then you also accept NC's current punishment for killing a 9 month old baby in the womb? If I walk up to a woman that is in the delivery room about to give birth and shoot her in the stomach intentionally killing her baby, I'm guilty of nothing more than assault with a deadly weapon. Now, what would YOU consider that? Murdering a child or only assaulting the woman?

Quote :

" If they abolish abortion completely, I'll be bitching and moaning like you are right now. "

I'm sure you will. Of course, you would be right because we have no right to place a child's life above a woman's convenience.

How about that reason now? You still haven't given it to us. Just ONE reason why abortion for convenience is a good thing. We're all waiting.

5/5/2007 3:15:40 AM

Quote :

""I'm living it up guys!" "

Yep, she looks so distraught in that picture. And obviously she has no friends. Man, I'm so glad you posted that picture because now I realize how wrong I was. Just looking at her in such a sad state with that girl making fun of her is horrible. We should all call her mother and tell her how horrible she is for not aborting her.

5/5/2007 3:18:06 AM

Quote :

"Ok I skimmed to see if anyone else had caught this and didn't see it but do they spell differently than we do or some shit???"

what rock have you been living under?

meter
metre

encyclopedia
encyclopaedia

color
colour

fetus
foetus

etc

never saw any of these? never knew about it?

and btw, yeah they spell differently, but they use the correct and original spellings.

5/5/2007 6:59:19 AM

Quote :

"I had no idea that abortion was illegal in Ireland unless the mom's life is in danger; to me it seems backward."

The Irish (and Catholics) are backwards people.

5/5/2007 7:36:30 AM

^ At least we don't still have the death penalty

5/5/2007 9:06:07 AM

This thread needs to be moved to Soap Box.

5/5/2007 9:48:41 AM

I know, it looks like this thread turned into a collection of people's short stories.

5/5/2007 10:22:38 AM

Quote :

"You support it and that's exactly how you're arguing."

Yes, I support a woman's choice about what happens to her body. That doesn't make me supportive of killers, and nor do I advocate the use of abortions as birth control or out of convenience. That doesn't mean I'd EVER try to tell another woman what to do with her body because it's still her choice. If they get rid of abortion, she'd have no choice at all.

And that's all I have left to say.

Oh, and for future reference, stop overusing the phrase "Last time I checked."

5/5/2007 1:18:43 PM

exactly, do whatever you want with your body

just like the whore who fucks every guy she comes across

or the heroin addict that cant wait to get his next fix.



but i can still treat them exactly how they are: trash.

5/5/2007 1:22:27 PM

Last time I checked, abortion was legal in the United States.

5/6/2007 12:13:10 AM

So was owning slaves at one point.

It doesn't make it right.

5/6/2007 3:06:01 PM

It's illegal to fuck doggystyle or get a blowjob, does not mean it is wrong.

5/6/2007 3:17:55 PM

Exactly.

Saying something just happens to legal doesn't mean dick.

[Edited on May 6, 2007 at 3:23 PM. Reason : sp]

5/6/2007 3:23:20 PM

Quote :

"It's illegal to fuck doggystyle or get a blowjob, does not mean it is wrong."

might technically be true, but all sodomy laws were deemed unconstitutional by the supreme court 7-10 years ago. so if one was ever enforced, it would be struck down if challenged.

5/6/2007 3:45:41 PM

Quote :

"Last time I checked, abortion was legal in the United States."

I thought abortion IS still legal in United States.

5/6/2007 11:10:41 PM

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/femail/article.html?in_article_id=453148&in_page_id=1879

Why I changed my mind seconds before I had an abortion

A nice read.

5/7/2007 8:24:28 AM

The facts of this case really should allow her to have an abortion because of the baby's health and potential complications from delivery. There is a good chance that the baby's birth will damage her uterus. Birthing a baby with an enlarged or misshapened head is a very dangerous procedure and could leave the mother infertile. C-Sections are most always performed and there is still a substantial risk because the uterus has to have a larger incision than the normal delivery.

abortion is way too expensive and invasive to be used as simply back up birth control. Also, people only want to adopt white babies from beautiful parents. With modern advances in IVF, parents that would have adopted are now just having their own premature children.

bottom line: Put BC in the water and you should take a pill to get preggers.

Also, Juliana Witmore is mentally fine and developing the speech skills that she will need. The only thing that is wrong with her is her face and airway, both are fixable to a certain extent.

[Edited on May 7, 2007 at 10:07 AM. Reason : k]

5/7/2007 9:52:33 AM

do pro-lifers eat eggs for breakfast?

5/7/2007 6:40:18 PM

^

5/8/2007 2:25:24 AM

^^ I don't get it. Is that supposed to be funny? You do understand that chicken eggs are unfertilized, right?

5/8/2007 10:34:39 AM

because you can tell a chicken egg is unfertilized by looking at it in an egg carton

5/8/2007 5:33:59 PM

You can usually tell after cracking it open. The general assumption is that chicken eggs are not fertilized and besides that, this is an asinine argument to make. Please to explain how it's applicable here.

5/8/2007 6:44:02 PM

so if i can usually tell if a baby is going to die at birth we can abort it without worry, or is this going to turn into the argument that human life carries more weight than any other living thing and we should treat it differently

5/8/2007 6:50:26 PM

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5/8/2007 7:03:48 PM