^^Again, I'm not self-defensive. I know what I am, and why I am the way I am. I'm concerned/bothered on behalf of other people. And how can you say she's not putting down fat people when she suggests that I'm going to either read her pathetic post or die of a heart attack at 30?

She's been putting down fat folks this whole thread.

[Edited on May 27, 2007 at 1:05 AM. Reason : sss]

5/27/2007 1:03:39 AM

Do you sympathize with every poor person you meet who you KNOW has the potential to get a job and make a living but are jsut being lazy/unmotivated/genetics/whatever?

Are you a bleeding heart or do you just like to bitch a lot?

5/27/2007 1:07:51 AM

She hasn't put down fat people through the whole thread.

My edit said that those comments were uncalled for, but they wouldn't have been made if you weren't provoking her.

5/27/2007 1:07:58 AM

Quote :

"Then you should say that about America instead of saying that you condemn fat people. If you really do condemn fat folks, I think it would be super awesome of you to go tell your "chubby" family that. ("Quit being so fucking stupid, too?" Why don't you wear a condom when you're fucking women you want nothing to do with for the rest of your life? Seriously, where the fuck do you get off behaving irresponsibly for the bulk of your adolescence and then turning around and "condemning" fat folks as stupid?)"

1. I didn't mean "condemn" in terms of condemning them as human beings. I mean condemn the fatness.

2. My family isn't "chubby". With the exception of one uncle who's overweight, they all eat reasonably, work out, and stay in shape. If I (and they) didn't, though, I would be overweight. Not morbidly obese or anything, but overweight.

3. I wasn't calling fat people "stupid". Allow me to rephrase..."Society in general: Stop being fat, lazy, weak, and soft. While you're at it, fucking learn something and quit being so damned dumb and just kinda sucking in general."

4. I did wear a condom all but once, and she was on the patch. Plenty of people on birth control don't use condoms at all. We were being extra careful.

Quote :

" I know what I am, and why I am the way I am. "

just because i'm curious, why is that?

5/27/2007 1:08:56 AM

If anything, I'd love to motivate fat people into living healthier lives. How did I get motivated?

Basically looking at the scale as it said 199lbs. and deciding if I was going to live my life that way or wake the fuck up, get off my ass, stop shoving that awful shit down my throat and make it fucking happen. tough love and it worked. some people like that.

5/27/2007 1:10:14 AM

I read the article very thoroughly and the fundamental concept of it is, susceptibiliy to being obese is an inherited condition.

The problem with the findings is that fat people are using this as an excuse for being fat, while skinny/average people are saying "but look you can still be skinny".

First of all, the article is talking about OBESE people. People who are beyond the point of walking or leading normal lives. This in no way excuses people for being 40 lbs overweight because they eat chocolate chip cookies in bed while they watch re-runs of Everyone loves Raymond at midnight on CW.

The article proves what basically everyone already knew... people have a "natural" weight and that it is very tough to diverge more than ~20 pounds either way from it. However, there are many guys whose natural weight may be 220 lbs and through no exercise and lack of a proper diet balloon up to 270. Sure, they may never be able to get to 180 lbs, but there is no reason for them to weigh 270 beyond the fact that they eat chili cheese fries for breakfast.

I have an ultra fast metabolism and while its great for burning fat it sucks for building muscle. I have to work about twice as hard as other people in the gym just to build a noticeable amount of muscle. It sucks, but I just accept it. People with a slow metabolism will have to work harder on their diet/exercise plan to lose weight.... sucks, but they'll just have to do it.

I'm sure its sometimes discouraging for someone like Kiwi to bust her ass to lose 25 lbs in 6 months while blasphemour boasts about drinking every night yet losing 50 pounds in a matter of weeks. The thing is, if she's willing to focus on herself rather than comparing herself to others then her goal is still attainable.

P.S. 600 calories is not "starving" for an obese person who is completely sedentary. Most of you are thinking "600 calories, thats only one jelly donut!!!" Newsflash, you don't have to eat jelly donuts.

The subjects of this study have so much stored body fat that you really don't have to give them much fat at all in their diet. 1 g of carbohydrate/protein is only 4 calories so if you give them a multivitamin, 90g of carbs, and 60g of protein per day while they are laying motionless in bed all day they should be fine.

5/27/2007 10:04:16 AM

kiwi is still a fatty, so I have no idea why she's putting the fatties down

5/27/2007 10:19:46 AM

she's making progress when many fat people give up and accept.

I get annoyed by chicks who start dropping wait and then see how they look compared to how they DID look and start dressing like it... all the while they still aren't nearly at a size where they look good in what they are wearing expecially when they just gain the weight right back...

The concept of "going on a diet" is something I've heard all my life as my family is oversized... but I see my parents do soemthing for a while, but it never involved hardcore cardio several times a week... walking freaking doesn't count, thats a method of transportation.

I know that whenever I stop running I first loose all the muscle that I have in the first 2 months, then each month from there I gain ~5lbs... this usually happens in the winter when I can't go running outside b/c its dark when I get home... then when spring rolls around I start running again and after a month of running and eating PBnJ most meals I'm back to something trim... but drinking is getting in the way of that this year... all those empty calories are killin me...

I'm doomed if I don't watch myself closely to be ~300lbs... time will tell... but I am cognicent of the fact that I HAVE to do something about it, and thats a pretty solid movitivator.

5/27/2007 10:36:57 AM

cardio is good, but weight training is a big hammer for you to use if you want to be lean.

5/27/2007 10:47:29 AM

well the past 2 summers I wakeboarded(cardio + series muscle use) 4+ times a week and was ripped...

I look forward to being back in raleigh and wakeboarding all the time again (COME ON AUGUST!)

5/27/2007 10:53:45 AM

Quote :

"I get annoyed by chicks who start dropping wait and then see how they look compared to how they DID look and start dressing like it... all the while they still aren't nearly at a size where they look good in what they are wearing expecially when they just gain the weight right back..."

A-fucken-men to that. What's worse is the same women acting as if they are the hottest bitches on the planet. I'm glad you finally have some self-esteem, but your "i'm hot shit" attitude isn't going far with me or anyone else.

5/27/2007 11:02:11 AM

Quote :

"walking freaking doesn't count"

Actually walking is probably the best form of exercise to shed fat.

Most overweight people can't run for the extended periods of time it takes to lose weight running. Also running is horrible on your joints particularly for fat people.

Walking is a great way to lose weight because of the duration and frequency that you can do it.

Also, the calories burned are a higher % of fat than you burn from running (mostly burning carbs).


Very seldom do I run, and when I do its usually only for 1/4 mile at a time when I do interval training. There's no need to burn muscle and carbs by running when the goal is to burn fat.

[Edited on May 27, 2007 at 11:55 AM. Reason : a]

5/27/2007 11:55:28 AM

yeah, i've never checked too much into walking, because it's not really the kind of training that i really need to be doing (unless you count fast hiking with a heavy ruck...that's a good workout, but i'll probably never do it by myself), but yeah, I think it actually is pretty good for burning fat.

My guess, though, is that the overwhelming majority of people who walk for exercise walk WAY too slowly and not NEARLY enough, yet think they're doing something good and can't figure out why they're still fat.

5/27/2007 2:25:29 PM

^^yep walking can be very good cardiovascular exercise.

in fact, speed walking burns the same amount of calories as a normal jogging pace, with far less impact.

but you dont have to speed walk. just walking 2500+ paces a day will make a pretty dramatic difference in most people's lives.

Quote :

"Um, wtf? That made no sense."

The more fit you become, the more the BMI scales dip into mass obesity. My argument is that you can't use BMI on a Macro (whole population) level, because an elite athlete and a big fat monster are BOTH considered obese by the scales. The only people who fit into the "healthy" area aren't really going to be in good shape, because they are going to have a much lower percentage of muscle mass.

Quote :

"A recent (2006) study on BMI and sedentary lifestyle. "Our findings suggest that a high BMI is a determinant of a sedentary lifestyle but did not provide unambiguous evidence for an effect of sedentary lifestyle on weight gain." In other words, a high BMI is a risk factor for sedentary lifestyle. We use risk factors all the time in analysis sports science & medicine."

That study was for people 40-54 years old. I'm talking about the entire population here. BIG difference.

Quote :

"I don't think you give the BMI enough credit. It's not pinpoint accurate, but it has a relatively broad range."

No it doesn't and that's the problem. It has an extremely narrow range, especially as height increases and muscle mass increases. There are so many other tests on the Micro level to determine fitness, I don't know why any physician would still use BMI. Hell, a skin caliper test would give you better information.

5/27/2007 2:40:24 PM

yup my point exactly... walking one mile once a week doesn't count for crap... that or going every day for a week every other month doesn't count... consistency is key...

like everyone says its a lifestyle change not something to do until you drop the weight and then bail...

my dad dropped like 80lbs by swimming 3years ago... looked great then has been gaining it back ever since... very sad

^ for me I'm considered obese b/c how the index is set... I'm 6'5 225 with an athletic build... it says I'm suppose to be 190... I have pictures of me at 6'5 190ish and I look pathetically scrawny... last summer at the peak of wakeboarding season I was 6'5 240 and had the body I always wanted...



[Edited on May 27, 2007 at 2:47 PM. Reason : BMI can blow me ]

5/27/2007 2:41:00 PM

I HATE FAT PEOPLE!!!


GRRRRRRRR

5/27/2007 3:01:45 PM

it isnt bmi's fault you are a fatty gofig

5/27/2007 3:07:01 PM

Quote :

"Actually walking is probably the best form of exercise to shed fat. Most overweight people can't run for the extended periods of time it takes to lose weight running. Also running is horrible on your joints particularly for fat people. Walking is a great way to lose weight because of the duration and frequency that you can do it. Also, the calories burned are a higher % of fat than you burn from running (mostly burning carbs). Very seldom do I run, and when I do its usually only for 1/4 mile at a time when I do interval training. There's no need to burn muscle and carbs by running when the goal is to burn fat."

Walking is NOT in any way, shape, or form the best way to lose fat
EDIT: before anyone tries to tell me that you do in fact burn fat DURING walking...I realize that. However, overall, this effect does not carry far past the actual exercise. Running (prefereably HIIT) and lifting weights will in fact boost your metabolism and have a more profound effect on fat burning postworkout. When you look at the overall results, more fat is burned through HIIT and Lifting than walking (of course this all still depends on diet, age, etc.)

if you're severely overweight and it's all your fatass CAN do...then it's a start, but don't overgeneralize and say it's the "best" way to lose fat...give me a break

you clearly have no concept of how your body works if you're spouting off bullshit such as "there's no need to burn muscle and carbs by running"...sorry it doesn't work like that. Sure you're body can begin to use protein (from muscle) after extended periods of aerobic exercise...but that's only AFTER all of your glycogen stores are emptied as a last resort and that's usually shown to be for durations greater than an hour...AT LEAST be more specific if that's what you mean, but don't imply that running, without specifically stating a duration of time, by itself is going to somehow consume muscle.

The best way to lose fat is to burn more calories than you consume...it's that simple. How much muscle mass you preserve while this is taking place depends on exercise, diet (make sure you're getting enough protein to support tissue repair), and the amount of caloric deficit that you're running.


[Edited on May 27, 2007 at 3:40 PM. Reason : ]

5/27/2007 3:29:32 PM

Okay first of all I agree that lifting weights is better for burning fat. When I said walking I was comparing it to other cardiovascular activities like running, swimming, etc...

Lifting weights isnt going to help you as much in the cardiovascular department and most fat people need this help as well.


Here is the thing dude. Running is bad on your joints. Good luck finding a 200 lb girl that can run for 30 minutes, 3-4x a week.

Anyone can get their heart rate up in the training zone and walk ~3 miles 4-5x a week easily.

Good luck finding an overweight person who will ultimately lose more weight by running than walking.

You have to take into account all factors: Intensity, duration, ability to sustain the exercise, etc

Fat people get hurt running, period.

Swimming is pretty worthless for losing weight because the water cools your body temperature and unless you are a very good swimmer you cant swim for the duration of time you can any other exercise. Plus, when you get out of the pool you are hungry as a motherfucker.

5/27/2007 4:00:47 PM

yeah I used to swim competively and I agree, after that you're def. really hungry


if you're specifically talking about overweight people, then yes..walking is probably the best option since running can put a strain on their joints

5/27/2007 4:03:04 PM

I recently looked at an autopsy for a 15 year old boy who was over weight, but not obese. He already had heart disease, fat induced hepititis and border line kidney failure at 15.

5/27/2007 9:53:52 PM

haha, damn. fucking fatties.

5/27/2007 10:13:40 PM

^^yeah, i can't wait for the idiot masses in America and the politicians who whore themselves for their votes to hook us up with some socialist health care.

[Edited on May 27, 2007 at 10:14 PM. Reason : ^^]

5/27/2007 10:14:38 PM

Quote :

"if you're specifically talking about overweight people, then yes..walking is probably the best option since running can put a strain on their joints"

Fuck no it's not. Stair climber, exercise bike, eliptical machines, rowing machines. There are TONS of no or low-impact options for super fatties. Hell water aerobics, low impact step aerobics too

5/28/2007 2:12:58 AM

^ those might be less impact but again people won't have the same amount of duration on those machines. They require more coordination/athleticism and people tend to give up on them easier or get bored faster.

5/28/2007 11:10:36 AM

nothing crazy about water aerobics or a bike.

5/28/2007 11:19:03 AM

water isnt great for burning calories because it lowers your body temperature while youre exercising.


You're not gonna beat walking for shedding fat.

5/28/2007 11:20:19 AM

The best exercise for losing weight is whatever you will do consistently over a period of time. Walking is a great exercise, as is everything else that was mentioned. I think ppl get intimidated about losing weight because they think they are going to have to run for 2 hours a day. I lost about 30 lbs. 4 years ago by exercising (elliptical or stationary bike) for 30 min. a day, 5 days a week.

5/28/2007 12:05:13 PM

Quote :

"The best exercise for losing weight is whatever you will do consistently over a period of time."

Yeah, I'm sure everyone has gotten into those super motivated moods where you go to the gym for like 2 hours 3 days a week, and then in a month you're burnt out or too busy to keep that up. It would be a lot better to go for half an hour 5 days a week. Staying fit is a lifestyle.

Same thing with what you eat. Your body will just adapt to whatever you throw at it, so eating 1000 calories a day and losing a bunch of weight won't do any good because as soon as you get to the weight you want you'll just rebound to a higher weight unless you've changed some of you habits in a way you can maintain for life.

5/28/2007 12:14:12 PM

Quote :

"Even at 240lbs (almost 50 lbs over my ideal weight) I could and did still run 8-10 miles at a stretch at a 8:30-9:30 mile pace."

My BS meter just pegged.

5/28/2007 1:22:47 PM

9:30 miles are awfully slow, man. i could buy that if he kept training.

5/28/2007 2:31:47 PM

I'm curious to look back on education. I feel like there are a lot of people who are overweight out there that want to change - but don't understand how. Even programs like Weight Watchers only help you so much - and don't really get into the nutrition around things, let alone how to incorporate and increase exerciese as much as you wish.

Thinking back, I don't remember learning those things in school. Basics like stretching and sit ups perhaps, but not how to weight train properly and effectively - optimum cardio etc.

Did I just sleep through school, or has it just been a really long time? Yes a lot of it is motivation - but I feel like people get to this point where it's a mountain to even think about getting to an appropriate weight. It's baby steps if you want a lifestyle change. The "diet" craze isn't going to help - and perhaps there's more to the yo-yo effects in fat cells that we publicize.

5/28/2007 2:45:45 PM

Quote :

"9:30 miles are awfully slow, man. i could buy that if he kept training."

we've had this convo before mr marine. it is slow, but running 8-10 miles for a normal person, even at 9:30 can be a lot, particularly because in this case we are talking about someone who is many lbs overweight.

[Edited on May 28, 2007 at 2:53 PM. Reason : ^ the diets dont cause the craze really, it is people wanting results without the work, as always]

5/28/2007 2:52:08 PM

^ oh, no doubt. I'm just saying that I don't regard it as impossible, if he ran a lot and just ate himself fat. 9:30 miles are a glorified walk.

I know a guy in the Marines who is kinda chubby (by Marine standards, at least). Certainly not 50 lbs overweight, but probably a good 20 (he, like me, beats the USMC height/weight standards by putting up really good fitness test scores) He likes to do hash runs. I think he runs our 3 mile test in just under 18 minutes...not exactly the same thing Noen is talking about, but i've seen some good runners who sure as hell didn't look like it.

[Edited on May 28, 2007 at 3:02 PM. Reason : i don't ever remember Noen being fat. maybe it was after i left town?]

5/28/2007 3:02:07 PM

alright, so long as we arent overestimating the general population.

5/28/2007 3:03:32 PM

oh hell no. the general population sucks in most ways.

and there's no way your average 50 # overweight person would be able to do that.

5/28/2007 3:05:57 PM

glad all of us, skinny and fat, can agree he is full of shit.

5/28/2007 3:11:07 PM

no, i'm not saying HE's full of shit. I'm saying that I think it would be possible if you ran a lot, but were 50 lbs overweight due to eating too much.

but definitely not for your average 50 # overweight couch potato. such a pathetic beast would never make 8-10 miles at even a 9:30 pace.

[Edited on May 28, 2007 at 3:22 PM. Reason : unless you mean 50 lbs over a BMI "standard". Hell, I easily fall into that category.]

5/28/2007 3:18:31 PM

9:30 is not a run, but a trot. 8-10 miles of trotting is a lot. I don't even think I could do that. Trotting is a lot different from running. It's a lot less efficient, can be worse for joints and tighten your muscles for that length of time.

5/28/2007 3:19:38 PM

yeah, it would break the shit out of YOUR stride, but i'm not sure it would for a fairly poor runner.

[Edited on May 28, 2007 at 3:24 PM. Reason : i'm just guesstimating, of course.]

5/28/2007 3:23:38 PM

if you'd just concede and agree with us duke then i could stop responding and misrepresenting your words.

5/28/2007 3:23:58 PM

haha

don't misunderestimate Noen.




my BMI at my pre-SERE school weight was 29.3...the cutoff between "overweight" and "obese" is 29.9.

even right now, 15 lbs down, i'm in the higher region of "overweight", and you can see my abs, even a little of those "v" definitions just below the waist.

[Edited on May 28, 2007 at 3:28 PM. Reason : retarded ass BMI.]

5/28/2007 3:24:51 PM

Oh, Noen is not lying about what he can do.

He's been training for awhile. I know this for a fact.

5/28/2007 3:27:28 PM

i didnt even see who said it, but ill still feel free to call you all lying fatties.

[Edited on May 28, 2007 at 3:28 PM. Reason : cuz im sexy and thin]

5/28/2007 3:28:20 PM

heh I rock a BMI of 26.7 and run 7 minute miles over 3 miles... Faster if I give a shit on the current day or for a 5k

5/28/2007 4:37:21 PM

im at 18.4

5/28/2007 4:40:58 PM

I am a fattie but it doesn't keep me from being athletic. Doomed is a skinny fucker getting kidney punched, falling off a boulder, or trying to survive outside in winter. Maintenance of the higher brain requires plenty of fat.

5/29/2007 4:18:57 AM

i can drive a mile in a minute...who cares how fast you can run/walk it

5/29/2007 4:31:49 AM

excellent logic

5/29/2007 4:42:25 AM

i can fly a mile in 6 seconds...who cares how fast you can drive it

5/29/2007 5:56:17 AM