we also don't pardon every criminal who has been doing his crime for a long enough time simply because he's been doing it so long

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 1:58 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2007 1:58:39 PM

You're right, not simply for that reason, no.

6/5/2007 2:13:44 PM

From the first page"

Quote :

"bbehe: I honestly don't understand the argument of "hey we were all illegal immigrants at one point in time" If you compare the United States during the big immigration booms and now, its a very different scenario. We have problems with overcrowding in areas, providing a proper education to kids, to high of a labor pool in certain areas, we have systems set up that illegal immigrants can abuse, etc. We're not trying to project our manifest destiny any more, we're not trying to expand, we're trying to make sure our citizens get the best lives that they can, and unfortunately, illegal immigrants can hamper that."

Boy is this ever wrong.

In the early 1900's our problems were much much greater. Hell, compared to their historic counterparts, Hispanics are doing a pretty good job at blending in painlessly.

And on the topic of alcohol, please.

6/5/2007 2:19:25 PM

hahaha this motherfucker just posted an illustration that supposedly confirms his point!

6/5/2007 2:48:44 PM

I think the point moron is trying to make is:

They may have broken a law to get into this country, but that doesn't make every illegal Mexican in this country a habitual lawbreaker. Most of us have broken a law at some point in our lives. Yet we don't perpetuate the habit. Plus it is absurd to imply that these people are here to spite us. They're here to make money and not live in the shit-hole where they came from. They seek economic opportunity, hardly a sadist goal.

Yes, there are a metric shit-ton of people in this country illegally. Yes, most of them are probably working some shitty-ass job and not paying taxes on their income. They're taking advantage of the system. However, if you want to take taxes out of their earnings you have to begin by getting them in the system.

We either leave them here in our country and give them legal status so we can tax them like everyone else, or what.... deport them? Again, how do you propose to do this? And at what cost? You honestly believe it will be feasible to find, detain and export EVERY illegal immigrant in the country? Even most of them? What a staggering undertaking. Good luck with that.

As for the border.. again, how? How do you propose to secure 2000 miles of inhospitable terrain? A wall? A fence? History has shown in various places across the world that passive defenses like walls and fences are easily circumvented. You want to put guys in the desert with guns and orders to shoot on sight? How humane.. Clearly the desire for a better life is worthy of a few rounds to the head. Catch and release? We could radio tag the little bastards too, that way we'll know when they're coming back. Oh, and the whole border argument still ignores the blaring problem of what to do with the people already here.

6/5/2007 3:06:34 PM

If I was living in the United States illegally...as someone who entered into the United States illegally...and I was currently not paying taxes (Federal...State...Medicaire...Social Security)...and not only did I illegally come here, but I've been here working illegally and living illegally:

A: This actually is perpetual lawbreaking and is not like when "Most of us have broken a law at some point in our lives"

B: Why would I want to pay $5,000 and start paying taxes when currently I don't have to do any of that?

It seems people are just basing everything off of their emotions and empathy for a "hungry poor person far away from home" and completely ignoring the logical aspect that these people are breaking the law every day...you guys are aware that every day they work tax free, they are breaking laws...and every day they even live in the US without documentation they are breaking laws...I would call that perpetual lawbreakers, but if you'd rather say "aww...they have it so bad" then I guess I can't reason with your emotions

Quote :

"How do you propose to secure 2000 miles of inhospitable terrain?"

Wall/fence with more border patrol...completely feasible

Also its one thing to say ok, we can't deport 12 million people, and simply realize their offspring are American citizens and that the best way to help this problem is to prevent more and more illegals from coming in...its another to say "well they're here, lets make them all legal"

Quote :

"the blaring problem of what to do with the people already here"

I know what NOT to do...reward them for being criminals

6/5/2007 3:22:32 PM

^^^ So I take it you don't want to face the fact that every group of "new" immigrants has had its problems.

6/5/2007 3:43:26 PM

No, I can face that fact... and just because there were problems with other groups does not mean we should accept the problems of the present group.



Oh your parents were alcoholic drug addicted child abusers? WELL GO RIGHT ON AHEAD AND BEAT YOUR OWN LITTLE KID! NO PROBLEM HERE!

6/5/2007 3:47:02 PM

immigrants typically want to come to the US to be apart of the the US, not form an outpost of thier country, then demand things. Much less in the numbers we are speaking. Factor in our social services, then we have a big problem. This isnt the old days of immigration of find work or die.

6/5/2007 3:47:06 PM

^^And all these Germans, Italians, Irish, Chinese, etc...

They all hurt America in the long run?


^What exactly are they demanding? Hospital services? School? All immigrants have wanted this.

Now if we'd only make them pay taxes (as this bill proposes), we wouldn't have this trouble. Hell, we could really, really benefit from all these 2nd generation Hispanic kids paying into social security in a decade or two.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 3:52 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 3:49:40 PM

Quote :

"immigrants typically want to come to the US to be apart of the the US, not form an outpost of thier country"

thats another thing

pretty much ALL immigrants to the US over the past couple centuries have made the effort to learn English, learn the American "culture" in a sense, while still preserving their own culture...it seems the recent latin immigrants don't care about becoming Americans...they just set up "Little Mexico" neighborhoods where they don't even need to learn English or integrate into society

Quote :

"we could really, really benefit from all these 2nd generation Hispanic kids paying into social security in a decade or two."

and we hopefully/probably will regardless of what is done with the current illegals and the border

6/5/2007 3:57:12 PM

Quote :

"it seems the recent latin immigrants don't care about becoming Americans...they just set up "Little Mexico" neighborhoods where they don't even need to learn English or integrate into society"

Kinda like "Chinatown" and "Little Italy?"

Do you think these places were founded as tourist traps?

6/5/2007 4:01:52 PM

no other immigrants have ever set up their own little neighborhoods

ever

little italy? what?

chinatown? huh?

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 4:03 PM. Reason : ^beat me to it]

6/5/2007 4:02:23 PM

maybe i didnt phrase it as clearly as i intended:

there seems to be zero effort to learn english or integrate into "america"...is that something that is just a lost cause for the first generation where we expect their children to integrate and learn english? maybe so

6/5/2007 4:06:09 PM

No, really. Why do you think Chinatown (or any self-sustaining immigrant community) was established?

Could it possibly because the first generation couldn't/didn't learn English?

Could this possibly be a trend amongst all immigrant groups, including Hispanics?

6/5/2007 4:10:29 PM

wow, you are seriously comparing china town and little italy to this issue? Ive been to china town, and amazingly they spoke english. Its a cute little niche. Now, compare that too say, miami. Where its very difficult to go into a subway and find someone who speaks english. Or the other MILLIONS in this country with no desire to ever learn english, and actually think they are going to reclaim parts of the US for mexico... might be a little different than selling won ton soup on the corner.

6/5/2007 4:14:13 PM

its pretty clear you don't belong in this thread. you should leave and never post again

6/5/2007 4:16:29 PM

if I was illegal would you allow me to post on here? LOL

6/5/2007 4:19:59 PM

yes because he'd feel sympathy for you and ignore that you broke laws every single day

6/5/2007 4:21:25 PM

It was good for a laugh, how someone arguing that I dont belong in a message board is arguing for illegals. gotta love the irony.

6/5/2007 4:23:23 PM

Quote :

"wow, you are seriously comparing china town and little italy to this issue? Ive been to china town, and amazingly they spoke english. Its a cute little niche. Now, compare that too say, miami. Where its very difficult to go into a subway and find someone who speaks english. Or the other MILLIONS in this country with no desire to ever learn english, and actually think they are going to reclaim parts of the US for mexico... might be a little different than selling won ton soup on the corner."

You're making a perfect argument against yourself.

100 years ago, Chinatown was certainly not a cute little niche town, and very few people living in it spoke any English.

In fact, Chinese immigration was seen as such a severe problem that Congress basically banned them from immigrating with the Chinese Exclusion Act.

And look at Asian-Americans now.

Crazy how immigration works, eh?

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 4:25 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 4:24:39 PM

^^hey dipshit

perhaps you should read the thread

please show where i "argued for illegals."

thanks in advance.


[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 4:26 PM. Reason : jesus fucking christ you're dumb]

6/5/2007 4:24:43 PM

no speaka english.

6/5/2007 4:26:50 PM

Quote :

"Congress basically banned them from immigrating with the Chinese Exclusion Act. "

Man, if only Congress would pass a Mexican Exclusion Act... we've definately become more stupid as the years have gone by.

Imagine Mexican-Americans years from now.

Crazy how immigration works, eh?

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 4:30 PM. Reason : ]

6/5/2007 4:28:56 PM

I'd like eyedrb to address the fact that he just used the Chinese as examples of model immigrants, yet 120 years ago, Americans viewed them as such a threat to the nation that we banned them from immigrating to the US

^ Not sure where you're going with that. Are you saying Hispanics will be any different from all the other immigrants America has taken in?

I assume you have some sort of evidence that sets them apart from their predecessors?

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 4:32 PM. Reason : ,]

6/5/2007 4:29:32 PM

dey tuk ar railroad laying jerbsssss

6/5/2007 4:31:09 PM

so doesn't it say some where that English is not the official language of America? infact, there is no official language?

6/5/2007 4:31:33 PM

yes, and that really scares the crapout of xenophobes

6/5/2007 4:32:39 PM

Did you know that Chinese is not the official language of China?



... lol, everyone always gets stumped by that.

6/5/2007 4:32:52 PM

mandarin

6/5/2007 4:34:54 PM

seriously, boone the difference is the numbers and the amount of time. Thats whats creating a shitstorm. In fact 100 yrs ago we didnt have our social programs either, which are being overun. Thats the main problem. I dont think any of us against illegals are against immigration, but there are laws and a limit of how much our country can absorb. Thats my point.

Can you imagine the shitstorm if we tried to pass a simliar act today? You could also look at your example a different way. If by limiting the amount coming in, they may receive better quality education, etc, which may have let them be more successful.

I am curious what is the percentage of chinese in this country vs. mexican. And look at the numbers over the last 50 years. It would be interesting.

6/5/2007 4:35:00 PM

if you'd rather speak English while living in America, you must be a xenophobe

6/5/2007 4:39:26 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_States#Immigration_summary_1830_to_2000

1900:

% Foreign Born: 13.6%
% Native Born: 86.4%

2000:

% Foreign Born:11.1%
% Native Born:88.9%

Well there goes that argument, eyedrb, what's next?

And before you make the assumption that the 2000 figure isn't including illegals, it is. And before you make the assertion that the Dept. of Homeland Security Yearbook of Immigration Statistics couldn't do a better job at producing accurate numbers than a 1900 census, think for two seconds.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 4:41:05 PM

jwb, I was having some fun with ya.

I assumed bc you argued the difference between a couple thousand living in chinatown to the millions of illegals that you were defending that thier isnt a difference. So i grouped you in that group. Is that not where you stand? pro illegal?

6/5/2007 4:41:36 PM

^^ weak sauce. They accounted for 20 million illegals? weak sauce...


[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 5:09 PM. Reason : weak becaues you failed to show the other charts that show increase in mexican immigration]

6/5/2007 4:45:53 PM

What the hell are you talking about.

Your last pasts haven't even been coherent.

6/5/2007 4:48:27 PM

^^^not only did you assume a bunch of bullshit, you blatantly missed the point. good going!


[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 4:49 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 4:48:55 PM

thanks for the link boone. I think if you would have linked the other charts, I think it backs my thinking.

It would be hard to find the actualy numbers because of most being illegal and all, but I think looking at the numbers in schools, and the increase from 20-30 yrs ago, would be a good gauge.

6/5/2007 4:49:22 PM

Which chart backs your view? I'm curious.

Quote :

"It would be hard to find the actualy numbers because of most being illegal and all, but I think looking at the numbers in schools, and the increase from 20-30 yrs ago, would be a good gauge."

You should email the Dept. of Homeland Security. I bet it completely slipped their minds to look at such a figure.

6/5/2007 4:55:22 PM

How do left-wingers plan to cut down on our greenhouse gas emissions if they want our population to keep rising?

6/5/2007 5:17:29 PM

Well, all these immigrants moving into our country will be subject to much stricter environmental regulations than they had been in Latin American countries.

You guys can't even come up with a legitimate joke.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 5:21 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 5:21:15 PM

^^ Especially a population that drives Suburbans, F250s, and black smoke puffing beaters.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 5:23 PM. Reason : smokey]

6/5/2007 5:22:51 PM

^^you're a legitimate joke

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 5:23 PM. Reason : ^^]

6/5/2007 5:23:05 PM

So it's come to this, then?

If ya'll don't have any more "points" to make, I'll be ignoring this thread.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 5:26 PM. Reason : victory]

6/5/2007 5:26:25 PM

how bout this point

dont reward people for breaking the law

now i'll await your retort which uses logic rationale facts sympathy and emotion to convey your "point"

6/5/2007 5:27:45 PM

boone, the one talking about the costs of the hispanics and more so in the illegals. And the percentage change in a short period of time, the ten year period of 1990 to 2000. And NC had the biggest increase up 271 percent in just 10 years.


I too agree, that they should not be allowed to cut line simply bc of thier numbers. It spits in the face of legal immigrants, and creates animosity from the beginning. If you followed the rules, paid your money, and became a citizen... and saw them achieve the same thing without going through the exact same thing..it would create tension and resentment towards those people. Thats basic human nature.

[Edited on June 5, 2007 at 5:31 PM. Reason : .]

6/5/2007 5:28:48 PM

Yea, don't reward them since we don't bother to enforce the law!

6/5/2007 5:28:51 PM

Our immigration laws are ridiculous.

I don't care if people disobey ridiculous laws that the US clearly had no intention of enforcing until very recently.

There-- no sympathy involved.

6/5/2007 5:29:42 PM

Quote :

"I don't care if people disobey ridiculous laws "

6/5/2007 5:31:15 PM

Hey Tree,

did you get the artist's permission before embedding that song into your account profile?

6/5/2007 5:44:34 PM