Only thing I'll say is that I agree with buying a TV from a local store rather than online, especially if its >50" and has to be taken up stairs. The delivery men who brought my TV up scraped the stand below the screen on my banister and left a tiny mark. I saw them do it though and made them give me like $80 back, which was essentially the price of the shipping. It's worth it just for the piece of mind that if the TV fucked up, or you fuck up the installation, you're not left out in the cold.

9/2/2007 4:07:50 PM

Delivery is delivery, whether it's from a local store or not. The only difference might be the ease in which you can bitch about it.

9/2/2007 4:34:59 PM

Quote :

"why would anyone buy anything from you to begin with?"

Over the last 8 years, more than 5000 people have decided to purchase from me - perhaps ask some of them... The repeat business is probably because I don't know what I'm talking about, I don't do very good work, and I completely take advantage of my clients. Makes 'em feel all warm and fuzzy.

Quote :

"Last time I posted on here, I got blasted for voicing my opinion."

Quote :

"And you deserved every part of it."

Why? Am I not allowed to give my opinion? I don't understand why someone who sells home entertainment equipment for a living (especially one willing to give away advice) is hated so much by the people that are asking questions related to home entertainment. Are you convinced that you, the average consumer, have more experience and knowledge than someone who deals with this stuff day in and day out? I know you two (DoubleDown and Stein) aren't asking the questions that I am responding to, but why take my posts so personally?

[Edited on September 2, 2007 at 4:43 PM. Reason : .]

9/2/2007 4:43:01 PM

Because people come here looking for help and you respond with a sales pitch.

9/2/2007 5:57:01 PM

just to put in my two cents here.

As long as you order from a reputable dealer, buying online is NO different than at a local store. Either way your set is going to be shipped the same way, from likely the same place. Any reputable dealer will allow you to check for shipping damage during delivery and the return costs are absorbed by the shipping company if there is damage (anyone who tries to tell me that they had to pay return shipping on a damaged item is either lying or incredibly stupid).

As for the quality argument, Westinghouse makes amazing panels for their price. And for a lot of people, 300-500 dollars saved is worth much more than better color accuracy and extra features.

But I do agree that people should think about it as a long term thing. I've seen in person the differences between two low end Vizio LCDs (both 42"), several Samsung DLPs (42, 50 and 56"), a couple of Syntax Olevia LCDs (37 and 42"), a couple of Westinghouse LCDs (both 42") and two Sony Bravia LCDs (52" XBR and 40" XBR)

That said, there's a HUGE difference between the Vizio's and everything else. They are pretty shitty. The Westinghouse panels came in 4th, but just barely behind the Syntax panels. About the same image quality, but the syntax models had more I/O and slightly better contrast (at the time, the newer westinghouses with 1:1 pixel mapping are probably considerably better now).
Second were the Samsungs. DLP just has so much better contrast ratio (which DoubleDown is a fucking idiot to suggest that doesnt matter) it makes an enormous difference in percieved image quality.

Then there are the two Sonys. Out of the box they are better than any of the other brands. The 40" i was absolutely stunned by because of the price (it was like 1799 on sale at the time). It's the first LCD I have EVER installed that didn't need at least 20 minutes of calibration and a few weeks of tweaking. Absolutely stunning, color was beautiful and the contrast was waaay more than I expected for a sub 2k screen.

Then the 52" XBR. It was professionally installed and I watched the guys calibrate it while we were working one day (learned a LOT about calibration too, at least on sony models). Hooked up to a Blu-Ray player, I almost saw the point of spending entirely too much money on such a ridiculous piece of equipment. Almost. Flawless is the best word I can give to describe the clarity/color/experience. And the tv itself is beautiful. Everything about it was well thought out, well placed and worked as intended.

9/2/2007 6:09:03 PM

The reason why contrast ratio doesn't matter is there is no universal standard by how it's measured. Company X's 10,000:1 may be considerably worse than Company Y's 5,000:1. The only way to know for sure is to check out measurements done by a neutral party, using the same equipment. In other words, it's a pretty dumb thing to base your choice on if you're just comparing spec sheets.

Also, there is nothing wrong with ordering from a reputable online dealer. But I would still recommend buying something that expensive from a store that will install it for you. A online dealer my reimburse you for shipping damage, but they aren't gonna reimburse you for damage caused by dropping it down the stairs.

9/2/2007 6:42:30 PM

of course contrast ratio matters, but Shrike said exactly what i was trying to convey

Quote :

"The reason why contrast ratio doesn't matter is there is no universal standard by how it's measured. Company X's 10,000:1 may be considerably worse than Company Y's 5,000:1. The only way to know for sure is to check out measurements done by a neutral party, using the same equipment. In other words, it's a pretty dumb thing to base your choice on if you're just comparing spec sheets."

9/2/2007 7:02:48 PM

^ and ^^

There is however a difference between the Vizio/Olevia/Westinghouse typical 1000:1 or 1200:1 and Sony/Sharp/Toshiba/Panasonic sets that have 10000:1. Spec sheet or not, there's a huge difference.

And Contrast Ratio is one of the few things you can see easily in a shitty store setup and compare between sets.

9/2/2007 7:18:03 PM

Quote :

"Because people come here looking for help and you respond with a sales pitch."

I told jaZon to buy the Sharp from Best Buy. That's the shittiest sales pitch I think anyone other than Best Buy could have - wouldn't you agree?

Of course I'm going to recommend the things I sell, I would be an idiot not to. But you completely overlook the reasons I sell them - primarily that I'm an independent, small business, which means that I can't afford to sell items that are more likely (not guaranteed...) to have me visiting my clients' homes repeatedly to address issues. I don't see how that isn't helping anyone looking to spend near $2000 on a television.

9/2/2007 9:07:38 PM

Read the whole thread.

^ This guy knows his stuff. Listen to him if you're concerned at all about quality. There's nothing I can say he hasn't already said.

9/3/2007 9:06:15 PM

go to good home theater stores.. look at them in bright lights, in dark lights and then see which YOU like best.

Thats why i got my sammy cause I liked the looks of it best

9/3/2007 9:09:43 PM

Be sure to adjust the settings to something that you might actually watch a TV at.

9/3/2007 11:59:18 PM

So I'm getting a new TV within the next month or so, probably a 42". Would most of you guys recommend getting a 720p over a 1080p? I know a few people say that less than 50 inches and you can't tell the difference, but I haven't really had a chance to go take a look at some display ones, and like some people said earlier, it will look a lot different in my living room then on display at a shop.

9/4/2007 9:54:00 AM

you're going to want to go for a 1080p - most modern units are going to be 1080p anyway

other than how the tv looks, compare HDMI hookups as well, and make sure they are all capable of 1080p input

9/4/2007 9:56:04 AM

^^yea its worth the 1080p. 42" screens are either going to be 1920*1080 or 1366*768. It's a pretty big difference and having a set with 1:1 pixel mapping makes a huge difference in visual quality.

9/4/2007 3:10:24 PM

yeah my old 27" CRT was busted...now i'm in the market for an LCD or plasma...what's the best deal out there this week.....need to get a replacement asap

9/4/2007 4:07:37 PM

there are several decent 42-47" 1080p LCDs for less than $1500 - take your pick

9/4/2007 4:14:56 PM

links to ads? and recommended models?

9/4/2007 5:31:17 PM

My Personal Choice - simply because I own one, and I like it:

Westinghouse 47" 1080p - TX-47F430S

- (4) HDMI Inputs, VGA / Headphone Input for HTPC, all inputs 1080p
- 1 to 1 pixel mapping
- Digital Tuner
- Autosource sensing
- USB Port for firmware upgrades

$1349 @ Bestbuy (also you get to pricematch 60 days after purchase if price drops & possible 12% off coupon)
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?skuId=8346685&st=westinghouse+47&type=product&id=1175902657231

9/4/2007 6:29:56 PM

^As long as you don't mind black looking like steel grey, it's a good tv. the black levels are terrible, but everything else is pretty good, especially for the price.

9/4/2007 10:10:38 PM

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?_dyncharset=ISO-8859-1&id=pcat17071&type=page&st=lc42d62u&sc=Global&cp=1&nrp=15&sp=&qp=&list=n&iht=y&usc=All+Categories&ks=960

I still think for $1399 that's a hard one to beat. At that price point, you're not really going to find an LCD panel with amazing black levels, but I would venture to guess that Sharp or Sony are going to have the best. I would take the Sharp, but that's just my preference - sexier panel, even when it's off.

[Edited on September 4, 2007 at 10:27 PM. Reason : link]

9/4/2007 10:26:33 PM

Quote :

"^As long as you don't mind black looking like steel grey, it's a good tv. the black levels are terrible, but everything else is pretty good, especially for the price."

feel free to come check out my black levels if you'd like, im in morrisville - ive made some adjustments to the backlight / contrast / brightness that make them not too shabby - but then again you'll never get true blacks on any LCD

9/4/2007 10:58:40 PM

id rather have a 32" 1080p with 5000:1 or better than a 47" with 1000:1. but that's just me.

9/4/2007 11:07:52 PM

oh what a difference a year makes

paid $1200 for a 32" 720p a year ago

9/4/2007 11:12:57 PM

I'd rather have [randomly obtained contrast rating] than [other randomly obtained contrast rating]

9/4/2007 11:29:32 PM

^ nice

9/4/2007 11:38:44 PM

^okay mr numbers.

I'd rather have a set that I can get decent black levels on without having to turn the brightness down to .01 Which so far has been Sony Bravia's and a couple of other panels on the LCD side. Westinghouse/Olevia/Vizio fall into the black=grey category for me.

9/4/2007 11:39:12 PM

If you were looking for decent black levels you wouldn't be wasting time with an LCD anyway

I was more just re-iterating Shrike's post earlier. It's silly to throw around these contrast ratios like they actually mean anything which is what your last post was doing, despite the fact that I know that you know better.

If you were to have said 'I'd rather have a 32" 1080p Sony than a 47" Vizio' no one would say boo. There are differences in both the quality and picture quality of the TVs, but basing it off a "through any means necessary" contrast ratio rating is a poor one.

9/4/2007 11:59:37 PM

^Gotta say, there are several higher end lcd's now that rival DLP for true blacks. Granted I'm still sitting here happily with my 32" SD tube tv from like 1997. But LCD has pretty well caught up

9/5/2007 12:02:58 AM

Since when is rivaling a dlp for black level considered a feat?

Replace DLP with CRT or plasma and then you have an interesting point.

Furthermore, you go to the store to get a general sense of a television but always be aware that signal quality and settings will be subpar. I can make 10000$ 1080p plasma TV's look like they have blander colors then a westinghouse TV with shit settings.

Also note that every product you buy will have a group of people that hate it.

9/5/2007 12:07:10 AM

I could be wrong here, but i've been pretty impressed with the black levels on the two DLP's ive owned, in comparison to the 2 plasmas and 3 lcds. and both the dlp's were comparable to the JVC tube HD my roommate's had for years. The DLPs just had terrible upscaling and ghosting, but the best color/contrast of anything ive personally owned or seen other than the XBR bravia. (im lucky Im not bothered by the dlp rainbows i suppose)

9/5/2007 12:14:37 AM

ROFL - Found this on the Samsung site. Their new top of the line model:

Quote :

"If you are ready for the clearest, brightest LCD picture on the market today, look no further. The LN-T5281F offers full 1080p resolution and reduced motion blur due to its LED Motion Plus™ feature. Samsung's SmartLighting™ technology allows for an amazing 500,000:1 dynamic contrast ratio, and ultra-sharp blacks. The LED backlight also provides more natural color representation. Your home viewing experience has just risen to a new level."

LOL

9/5/2007 11:24:15 AM

looks like circuit city ad this week has a bunch of tvs for sale.
- sharp 42" 1080 LCD for $1299 (though I heard some folks on SD getting this for 899 not too long ago)
- samsung 50" 720 DLP for $1399 (but i don't know much about DLP quality)
- hitachi 50" plasma $1499

then there is this Philips 52" 1080P LCD for $1699.99 posted on slickdeals.

i haven't kept up with tv trends but now i'm desperate for one since i have no tv left

9/5/2007 11:45:03 AM

No one commenting on this crazy ass contrast ratio increase w/ the LED backlighting?

9/7/2007 11:56:11 AM

^Sony has a new high end set with 1,000,000:1 contrast. I haven't seen it in person, but from second-hand accounts, its freaking ultimate awesomeness.

9/7/2007 1:02:49 PM

9/7/2007 1:03:33 PM

Dunno if you're still looking, but I'd recommend the Samsung LN-T4065F. It's a bit more expensive than the LN-T4061F because of some improvements to the dynamic contrast ratio and tweaks to the sound system, but many seem to consider it to be one of the best LCD's in its generation. The price for the 40" units is around $1,500. The picture was beautiful straight out of the box.

Some of the reviews complain about a "shiny screen"; I own one of these units, and it hasn't been a problem for me. I'm assuming that as long as you don't shine a lamp directly at the screen, you should be okay.

9/7/2007 4:56:05 PM

^ that's what i wound up ordering - just waiting for it to get here now

9/7/2007 5:00:46 PM

rofl - the boss just went out and bought a 52 inch samsung

the SD picture on that bitch looks horrible

9/7/2007 9:09:50 PM

Welcome to non-CRT high definition television.

9/8/2007 2:52:00 AM

9/8/2007 1:10:52 PM

Wow, this thing is stunning. Now only to tune it a bit more and get these assholes to actually unlock all the HD channels I ordered

9/11/2007 5:35:21 PM