but my point is in regards to american soccer, not soccer in general

i've already said if rinaldinho was in MLS even I would watch that shit

but there is still some truth to my point about athletes and what sports they go into

you dont think somebody like allen iverson could've been a completely bad ass soccer player if thats the game he played from day 1 instead of basketball and football? instead the best scorer on Team Usa in the last world cup is 5'6" landon donovan...our best scorer who cant even score a goal in the cup

7/18/2007 11:30:06 AM

They don't because there have been many opportunities until recently for young American soccer players (or Canadians for that matter, take Steve Nash for example) to make any money. Their only option was really to go to Europe and in most cases, it was hard to secure a work permit. Now, there is a steady, viable option for younger players to grow up, know there's a steady future for MLS and continue playing soccer, instead of focusing on one of the other major sports.

I'm not saying every Reggie Bush and Jose Reyes in the US will be soccer stars in the next 10 years, but we're already seeing young, great athletes like Jozy Altidore emerge.

7/18/2007 11:50:02 AM

just noticed the error in my first sentence...

They don't because there haven't been many opportunities until recently for young American soccer players (or Canadians for that matter, take Steve Nash for example) to make any money.

7/18/2007 12:45:36 PM

i agree the main resason our best athletes dont hardly even consider soccer is the chance to makey money and the chance to be known..something that doesnt really happen with even the best american soccer players. also, youth soccer in this country requires a little more travel and money than youth basketball/football/baseball on a competitive level from what ive seen growing up...now part of this is catch 22..because there arent as many quality youth soccer teams, more traveling is involved to play other teams in competitive leagues...

and yes i think its 100% true that other countries, their best athletes grow up playing soccer. ive always said that if our best athletes grew up playing soccer i think we would be the best team in the world. maybe thats a bold statement but yea.

this is also important:

i dont know how it is now, but it also has to do with the way we recruit, a lot of our national team recruiting has come from scouting these 'classic'/'select' whatever you call the top tier of youth competitive leagues..the kids in these are usually the ones that had the money to sign up for them (playing on these kind of teams is EXPENSIVE...WAY more than youth football et al). thus we were really cutting down on naturally talented kids that might not be able to afford those kinds of teams. On top of that, the next area that scouting comes from is colleges..well...college soccer doesnt get NEARLY the kinds of scholarships football and basketball do THUS even kids that might be good enough to play D1 college soccer..not all of them can afford to play it because they dont get the scholarships that they might otherwise.

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 12:58 PM. Reason : ]

7/18/2007 12:54:31 PM

maybe i'm incorrectly equivocating soccer to basketball here....but it seems to me like, at least in the last world cup, our defense was pretty good...from goalie to rear and midfielders...but we dont have the pure scorers we need to compete...and obviously soccer isnt a game where you routinely have 20-19 scores, but against italy for example...i watched almost that whole game...i think we lost 1-0..allowing 1 goal by the eventual champs would indicate our defense is pretty good...however our scoring sucks

and again obviously you dont expect a ton of goals...but come on

7/18/2007 1:30:10 PM

we tied italy, but your point still holds up, because our goal was an own goal

7/18/2007 1:49:05 PM

^^^I'm also not convinced Classic/Challenge is a particularly good development system for the US anyway. It places too much emphasis on tricks/footskills rather than defending, developing attacks, and advancing the ball towards the goal. As pretty as that can be to watch, we will never out-Brazilian the Brazilians, who develop that playing countless hours in the streets. A more European approach could work in the US, I think.

Also noteworthy is most American kids grow up playing many different sports, while in other countries they are more likely to stick with soccer.

^^We might not have had elite strikers that have played at the top level, but the formation/gameplan we used was just as big a factor.

7/18/2007 1:54:03 PM

^^haha yeah i do remember that

7/18/2007 1:59:48 PM

the way i look at it is, the classic/select leagues here are a moot point...outside of the bigger cities, the soccer is atrocious. in the super y league national championships it was a casl team vs. a houston team every year it seemed like. when i was playing here in raleigh, we had kids coming in from greenville and other areas to play (the greenville kids are actually playing in the mls now). the soccer talent is so centralized here in the states. when comparing youth development here to how it is in europe, i think the only true comparison that can made is between the bradenton academy in florida and the youth academies in europe. here, we have 1 academy for the entire youth, therefore kids have to move across the country to develop their game. in europe, every single club has a youth academy. the youth club world cup actually takes place this summer and has clubs such as milan, chelsea, man u...there is just no way that talent can be developed in the states just yet

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 2:15 PM. Reason : pdl is just a summer league for college kids so i am not sure that would even qualify]

7/18/2007 2:13:32 PM

id prefer if you arrogant, no attention span, ass kissers didn't get into soccer and try and ruin it like you do everything else, with your fantasy leagues, commercialization, and all around bad taste
just stick to NFL until you've completely ruined like you ruined the NBA
stay out of soccers way, cause we're about to blow up in America, and you're not invited to the party

7/18/2007 5:48:18 PM

Quote :

"wow, I'll never understant the persistent trolling over soccer not just on TWW, but just in general. Why people go out of their way to argue with soccer fans about how un-American it is and how it'll never catch on here is beyond me. "

BECAUSE ITS FORCED UPON US!!!! God damn is it that hard to understand? Everyone other than the small amount of soccer fans in America do.

7/18/2007 6:06:08 PM

could you find a valid argument rather than repeating the same sentence over and over

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 6:09 PM. Reason : ]

7/18/2007 6:09:20 PM

would you please explain how soccer is in any way forced upon america

7/18/2007 6:19:34 PM

^^^ you're such a goddamn tool, stop it.

7/18/2007 6:22:34 PM

Quote :

"wow, I'll never understant the persistent trolling over soccer not just on TWW, but just in general. Why people go out of their way to argue with soccer fans about how un-American it is and how it'll never catch on here is beyond me. "

Because the majority of soccer fans are elitist pricks that never shut up about how soccer is going to be huge in the US. I am at least a casual soccer fan, but that shit gets annoying. Soccer was supposed to be huge after the '94 world cup, the creation of the mls, whenever the women won the world cup, Freddy Adu's arrival in the mls, and now Beckham. Why can't soccer fans just realize that the majority of Americans would rather watch other sports and not whine about it. There is no bias, Americans just prefer the NFL.

7/18/2007 6:43:07 PM

Quote :

" BECAUSE ITS FORCED UPON US!!!! God damn is it that hard to understand? Everyone other than the small amount of soccer fans in America do."

its not forced upon you AT ALL. terrible argument

7/18/2007 7:10:50 PM

I'll watch...he is SEXY

[obligatory girly giggle]

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 9:02 PM. Reason : j/k]

7/18/2007 9:01:54 PM

Quote :

"Soccer was supposed to be huge after the '94 world cup, the creation of the mls, whenever the women won the world cup, Freddy Adu's arrival in the mls, and now Beckham. Why can't soccer fans just realize that the majority of Americans would rather watch other sports and not whine about it. There is no bias, Americans just prefer the NFL."

see, that's where I disagree. I understand your argument, but try looking at it like this. Before the '94 world cup, soccer was NOTHING in the US. But, if it weren't for the World Cup in the US in '94, Freddy Adu's story wouldn't have been newsworthy, the MLS would not even exist (FIFA required us to have a premier soccer league in order to host the Cup). If the MLS doesn't exist, we don't finish as high as we did in Korea/Japan. If the MLS doesn't exist, we don't get Beckham. Each example you provided is really just another rung on the ladder for the popularity of soccer here stateside. It's slowly gaining momentum, and because it's not happening overnight people point and say, "see, soccer will never be popular in the US." Yet, the MLS merely surviving this long should be an indicator of the growing success (measured in baby steps, of course).

I grew up playing soccer. But because of the growth of soccer here in the US, I've grown fond of La Liga, the EPL, the Champions League, and all major international Cups(and as someone mentioned earlier, I have access to watch these games-something unheard of before '94). I still dont' follow the MLS as much, but you gotta admit there's a greater chance that a younger generation will, especially if they have parents who watch European/South American soccer and possibly live in/near an MLS market.

So, really, I hope this thing continues to build momentum. I would love to see "another big soccer story" that is "proof of soccer's irrelevence in the US." You'll probably see that as another example of soccer's failure to win over the US, and I'll continue to view it as another step in the right direction. But maybe thats because i'm just another "soccer fan-elitist prick"

Oh, and whoever mentioned that the reason why the US isn't a powerhouse in soccer because our better athletes play other sports, I totally agree. I could just imagine someone with the athletecism of an NFL cornerback running up and down the field, and I could seriously see the US being the best soccer nation in the world within my lifetime.

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 9:31 PM. Reason : ]

7/18/2007 9:22:57 PM

Quote :

"Because the majority of soccer fans are elitist pricks that never shut up about how soccer is going to be huge in the US. I am at least a casual soccer fan, but that shit gets annoying. Soccer was supposed to be huge after the '94 world cup, the creation of the mls, whenever the women won the world cup, Freddy Adu's arrival in the mls, and now Beckham. Why can't soccer fans just realize that the majority of Americans would rather watch other sports and not whine about it. There is no bias, Americans just prefer the NFL."

Well, most of my friends could care less about soccer so I'm really only aware of what goes on around me. And when I'm on soccer related message boards and stuff, I never read stuff like "NFL, here we come!!" Maybe some people are like that, but I'd like to think it's a small minority who are in a little fantasy world of their own.

7/18/2007 10:38:28 PM

If soccer wasn't being forced upon us, all this Beckham shit wouldn't be big news, and would be relagated to the soccer networks. Yet, its all in our faces, yet the vast majority of America doesn't care or want it. There are commercials telling us to prepare for his debut. People in the MLS talk about how they signed him to bring attention to the league. We dont care about soccer or Beckham and I dont like being forced to hear about it on ESPN etc. If America was at all interested in soccer, we would play it. Which most of us don't. And like I said, 99% of people who write on sports or talk about them on TV have the same opinion that its being forced, just watch Jim Rome, or ATH, PTI, or read any major sports column in a big newspaper. They will back up what I am saying.


I also see the MLS folding within 10 years when this whole Beckham thing fails to bring the MLS to where it thinks it should. At some point, you just have to cut your losses and give up. Hell Arena football is more popular in America than the MLS. It has survived a good bit of time in the US, but I dont think anyone would call it a growing success. And you don't see them trying to force feed Arena Football to us.

[Edited on July 18, 2007 at 11:12 PM. Reason : g]

7/18/2007 11:10:07 PM

THE S IN ESPN STANDS FOR SPORTS AND SOCCER IS A SPORT, JUST FUCKING DEAL WITH IT.

7/19/2007 12:41:13 AM

Nobody in America cares about soccer, yet its force fed into our face to try and make us care. I am showing you proof, hell turn to ESPN, look on any major news paper. There sure is a lot dealing with a sport that this country does not care about. So please show me evidence/proof that its not being forced upon us. Because from where I sit, and most of America sits, it is. We dont give a fuck about soccer, so why in the hell is it all of a sudden everywhere and all in our face? Thats proof enough. Where is yours that its not being foced upon us?

7/19/2007 12:52:56 AM

Quote :

"Nobody in America cares about soccer"

seriously... (and obviously every sport has diehard fans)...if you thought the NBA and NHL got bad ratings (which they do) look at MLS...HORRIBLE

7/19/2007 1:43:24 AM

Has any MLS stadium ever sold out a game? And no, this is not a joke, I really dont think this has ever happened. If it has, you can prolly count them all on one hand. How the MLS has survived this long is beyond me.


Hell you could offer me $1billion to name 5 players in the MLS and I could name 2 now thanks to Beckham arriving. Along with Freddie, Im willing to bet I am not alone, and millions upon millions of other Americans share my joy in not caring.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 2:04 AM. Reason : m]

7/19/2007 1:58:02 AM

Yeah, it's too bad no one is forcing it on you, then you might know more than two.

7/19/2007 2:20:08 AM

pwnt...royalflush is a walking contradiction

7/19/2007 2:27:33 AM

I've given many examples on how it is, as have, like I said, most sports personalities, and anyone having anything to do with sports. So how about you give me some examples on how soccer is not forced upon America? Is it the annoying amount of coverage about a sport we dont care about? Or perhaps the excesive amount of coverage on an athelete most of America doesnt care about, yet we have to hear about over and over on a daily basis, along with his wife that America has long forgotten. Perhaps its the increased covered of MLS thats about to begin, yet, as stated before, America doesnt care about soccer. I could go on and on, so how about you state a few excuses about how soccer isnt being forced upon us. We are listening.....


Oh, and lets refresh this into your mind...

Quote :

"Has any MLS stadium ever sold out a game? And no, this is not a joke, I really dont think this has ever happened. If it has, you can prolly count them all on one hand. How the MLS has survived this long is beyond me. "

And this only goes to further Americas point...

Quote :

"pwnt...royalflush is a walking contradiction pwnt"

The fact that soccer is being forced upon us and we care so little to only know who 2 of its MLS players are, just makes my point even more valid that we dont give a shit about Soccer.


[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 2:33 AM. Reason : n]

7/19/2007 2:30:22 AM

News & Observer has two stories about soccer. They're both about Broughton, one of the best high schools for soccer in the state. The stories are near the bottom, and there's no mention of Beckham anywhere.

There's nothing about soccer on the 850 blog.

All this despite the fact that Cary's pro team just beat an MLS team to advance to the quarterfinals of a soccer tournament that's been held in this country every year since 1914.

That's not to mention, of course, that central NC is one of the more notable centers of soccer activity in the country, hosting the Men's and Women's (one each year) NCAA College Cup since 2003 and hosting the US's World Cup training camps in 2002 and 2006. For the College Cup, they bring in 3,000 portable seats to SAS Stadium and still don't meet the ticket demand.

So here we are, in a place where soccer is fairly popular, and there's not a hint of it in the local sports media.

HMMMM.

The Galaxy had seven sellouts in 2005 alone, so there goes your one hand theory.

7/19/2007 3:37:09 AM

^^ save face and never enter this thread again

7/19/2007 4:20:19 AM

You're right, look at all these foreigners that flew in from Europe to watch the MLS Cup. Americans would never be interested in crap like this.

7/19/2007 7:45:34 AM

Quote :

"I also see the MLS folding within 10 years when this whole Beckham thing fails to bring the MLS to where it thinks it should. "

You fucking idiot.



If the MLS were going to fold, it would've done it within the first 5 years.


The MLS is probably one of the best managed leagues in the US, and they've done it right from the start.

You obviously know dick-all about both business and the inter-relation to sport.


You'd be best serving yourself by never posting here again.

7/19/2007 7:52:21 AM

thanks to RoyalFlush ive been entertained once again this morning at work. keep on keepin on with the SAME incorrect arguments and contradictions within your own arguments.

oh and PS feel free to correct me if im wrong but the average attendance of MLS games is nearly identical to NHL and NBA games and more than arena league football...

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 9:37 AM. Reason : ]

7/19/2007 9:22:41 AM

Quick Google search --

2004 Average WNBA: 8,507

2006-2007 NBA: 17,558

2006-2007 NHL: 16,486

2007 Arena Football: 12,392

Current MLS Attendance (through July 16th): 15,011.9

That's before Beckham has played a game, which will probably draw close to sellouts for pretty much every game.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 9:52 AM. Reason : NHL and Arena Football]

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 9:53 AM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 9:49:43 AM

Quote :

"News & Observer has two stories about soccer. They're both about Broughton, one of the best high schools for soccer in the state. The stories are near the bottom, and there's no mention of Beckham anywhere. There's nothing about soccer on the 850 blog. "

I said major newspapers or radio/TV shows. None of those fall into that category. Wait till Friday when he makes his debut, shit will be everywhere, even though we don't care. Why? Cause they are forcing the shit in our face. And I was a little off on the MLS attendance #s, but its still pathetic that Arena football is hanging with them. And the pic of the MLS cup doesn't look sold out, and of course the championship game is going to have more fans than than regular season games. Find me a regular season game that sold out. Thats what matters.

Quote :

"oh and PS feel free to correct me if im wrong but the average attendance of MLS games is nearly identical to NHL and NBA games and more than arena league football..."

haha, so now you are trying to claim that MLS is very close to being as popular as the NBA. Wow, just fucking wow. Like I said, which you have probably missed, pretty much every major sports show, article, column, has commented on how America does not like soccer, will not like soccer, never has liked soccer, and how its being forced upon us. So once again, I am not the one coming up with this shit, people who know what they are talking about do. I suppose if the crew from Around the Horn or PTI were on here posting the exact same thing, you would tell them they are wrong too? Doubtful.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 2:13 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 2:03:50 PM

I told you the Galaxy had seven sellouts in 2005 alone.

--

PEOPLE ON TV SAID IT, IT MUST BE TRUE! Everything Nancy Grace says is true, too. And Bill O'Reilly. And Larry King, that guy is a fucking news genius.

Television gives people credibility, but that doesn't mean they deserve it.

Just because you don't like soccer and it's low on the American sports hierarchy doesn't mean that America doesn't care, and it doesn't mean that it's being forced upon you. As much as it pains me to say it, soccer is more popular here than hockey is. When Sidney Crosby came into the league and there were stories about him everywhere and he was on the cover of ESPN Magazine, did you think hockey was being forced on you?

7/19/2007 2:11:27 PM

in terms of numbers, to say that arena leauge is hanging with mls, is like saying the wnba is hanging with arena league, im not sure how you can make this statement...

anyway, i highly doubt you will see anymore coverage of the game beckham will be in besides the channel it will be on, its not like you will be watching the discovery channel and all of a sudden they force you to believe that soccer is taking over your life....give me a break

7/19/2007 2:13:13 PM

I enjoy watching soccer and I don't care if they show highlights on ESPN. But in response to the attendance numbers, without illegal immigration from south of the border those numbers would be about half of what they are. I've been to several MLS games. The games I went to were dominated by non-english speaking hispanics who cheared for the guy from their country that was on the field.

The same can be said when our national team plays a south american team. Their fans outnumber ours 2 to 1. In our own country.

People who are in America might care about soccer but legal Americans typically don't.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 2:33 PM. Reason : My 200th post. I'm so proud of myself.]

7/19/2007 2:31:57 PM

@RF:

well you cant be selective... by your last logic you must also mean to say that from a fan standpoint its pathetic that arena football is hanging with NHL, NBA as well. so basically the only sport that deserves to be all over ESPN is football and maybe baseball or what?

every time you make a point, someone proves you wrong and you pull the "well i guess i was off...but..but..but theyre forcing it down my throat and i dont like it WAHHHHHH WAHHHHHH WAHHHHH. Theyre forcing it down my throat 'SOOOO much' yet somehow i still dont know anything about it besides david beckham is coming"

there are promotions on TV and newspapers and radio EVERY DAY for LOTS of things that people do not care about. this is no different than any other sport or movie etc really. i dont care about golf or tennis but i dont complain these things are getting 'shoved down my throat'...i just choose not to watch them.

for someone who is sick of this getting shoved down their throat and wasting their time, youre sure spending a lot of time in here talking about soccer.

oh and PS youre twisting my post. You were saying how bad MLS attendance probably was...i was putting it into perspective with other major sports. then, when you realized you made a fool of yourself once again, you resorted to putting words into my mouth "OMG YOURE TRYING TO SAY SOCCER IS AS POPULAR AS BASKETBALL?" no...altho something tells me even if the MLS was getting 30,000 to games and the NBA was still averaging 17,000 youd still say the NBA was more popular anyways

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 2:40 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2007 2:33:50 PM

haha, you have rarely proven me wrong. And it must be annoying how I am in here talking about how America doesn't care about soccer, almost as annoying as the MLS trying to make us care about soccer. I mean fuck, whats it going to take to show you America doesn't care. Sure you might like soccer, fine, but the majority...overwhelming majority doesn't, hasn't, and once again, never will. By now soccer people should just realize its not going to be big in this country. Perhaps when Beckham fails to make it a big sport you will understand. Soccer has been around for a long time, Americans have known about soccer, we just choose not to care. That why, by now, it hasn't caught on. Sure kids play it here when we are little, usually because its something to do when Baseball and Football aren't going on. But once we get older, we could care less about soccer because we realize just how boring it is to play. And have you ever watched a soccer game? Jesus, I'd rather watch bowling.

7/19/2007 3:45:59 PM

Quote :

"id prefer if you arrogant, no attention span, ass kissers didn't get into soccer and try and ruin it like you do everything else, with your fantasy leagues, commercialization, and all around bad taste just stick to NFL until you've completely ruined like you ruined the NBA stay out of soccers way, cause we're about to blow up in America, and you're not invited to the party"

qft

7/19/2007 3:52:31 PM

its not annoying in the sense that it doesnt change the way i feel about soccer or the amount that i enjoy it. the only annoying thing is how ignorant some people can be. and yes ive watched hundreds of soccer games i suppose its all relative because i hate watching MLB or NBA(at least on TV here). and as far as playing it goes it was definitely the 2nd most fun sport i played. and i played Baseball (10 yrs), Lacrosse (4), soccer (14), Wrestled (12), and Football (2). so sure its not fun to you, but then again did you ever play in a competitive league to make an informed opinion? no just like plenty of other americans im sure.

once again im not trying to say that soccer is anywhere near as popular here as basketball, football, baseball but the fact that 'no one cares' is completely false.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 3:55 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2007 3:54:48 PM

We're wasting our time with this troll, check out this opinions on the Vick situation. He obviously knows everything in the world and won't respond to facts and/or well constructed arguments.

7/19/2007 4:39:00 PM

I don't think soccer is being forced on America

But I do think ESPN and some other sports outlets made an ATTEMPT to force BECKHAM on America

and they realized that nobody new really seemed to care

7/19/2007 4:40:35 PM

Of course there are people who do care, or else there wouldn't be an MLS. The MLS is fine, they have there little niche audience, which as someone pointed out before, is mostly comprised of people not from America who come from countries where soccer is huge. Soccer is what it is, its soccer, a sport that a lot of people play young, but grow out of. Has it grown some? Sure, is it going to get huge in this country? Nope. Why? Because the majority of AMERICANS don't care about it or soccer. Once soccer fans and the MLS realizes this, then everyone will be happy. Just go about your little sport and league, and stop throwing it all in the news like people care. Because most of us don't. Deal with it.

^Ok, perhaps that more of what I am trying to say. However, by bringing Beckham over, the MLS is trying to force soccer upon us. If not, they would have had no reason to bring him over here. Yet they did, thinking people would care, but we don't.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 4:44 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 4:41:54 PM

i'm going to bitch and moan about mls trying to make money. sounds like a plan.

7/19/2007 5:01:16 PM

Quote :

"the MLS is trying to force soccer upon us"

i think i agree with a lot of what you're saying in principle...but i mean what company isnt technically trying to force something on the people? profit based company attempts to force their product on consumers to sell it

i dont think soccer will ever really be big in america unless the NFL, NBA, NHL, PGA, NASCAR, etc all go on strike or something

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 5:18 PM. Reason : .]

7/19/2007 5:17:10 PM

actually i will no longer participate in this thread

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 5:29 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2007 5:17:50 PM

Quote :

"However, by bringing Beckham over, the MLS is trying to force soccer upon us. If not, they would have had no reason to bring him over here. Yet they did, thinking people would care, but we don't."

As stated before, MLS didn't bring Beckham over as a draw. Sure, that's an added benefit for the league, but he's been talking about coming here for ten years because he wants in on the money to be made in the American market.

Beckham has huge endorsement deals all over the world, but none past Adidas in America. He's here to claim some more money, play a little soccer, and maybe increase MLS's visibility in the meantime. It's a Beckham deal, not an MLS deal.

7/19/2007 5:30:05 PM

To say America doesnt care about soccer is retarded, HS sports are seeing surges for soccer participation, when I played there were no cuts, everyone got a spot... now 5 years later there are 150 kids trying out. Its definatly on a surge, maybe it will never pass other sports in popularity here, but there are a ton of younger generation kids that will be watching

7/19/2007 7:01:25 PM

^^ Don't even bother trying to explain, I mentioned Beckham's longtime aspirations already and they were completely ignored.

Quote :

"The MLS is fine, they have there little niche audience, which as someone pointed out before, is mostly comprised of people not from America who come from countries where soccer is huge"

I believe that thing someone pointed out was sarcasm.

[Edited on July 19, 2007 at 7:03 PM. Reason : ]

7/19/2007 7:02:58 PM