I think that synopsis is but homosexual.

8/18/2007 4:45:45 PM

Couple things.

Quote :

"the "hardcore base" is not the driving force behind the games industry. joe madden is. joe madden owns the cheapest console that lets him buy madden every year and maybe buys an occasional halo/gta/shit movie tie-in every few months."

The hardcore base is not the driving force behind the game industry, but it is the driving force behind the studios pumping out multi-million dollar games like Halo 3, Bioshock, and Heavenly Sword. Madden is popular, yes, but it doesn't cost a whole lot of money and manpower to rehash a football game every year. All it costs is the license to use the names.

Quote :

"parents/grandparents/etc are buying wiis because they are relatively cheap and provide a unique experience. these people are going to want more casual games."

No they are not. There is absolutely no evidence supporting that claim. Parents, grandmothers, wives may be playing the Wii, but they certainly are not going out and buying them in droves, despite what Shigeru Miyamoto would have you believe.

Quote :

"You're asserting that companies will never get a handle on the controls beyond "waggle", I'm merely saying it's a little premature to be say that definitely."

And I'm saying it's a little too early to declare the Wii as a ubiquitous success. Nine months is nothing. Remember Tamagotchis? How popular were those at one point? What ever came of them? A bunch of cheap knock offs and eventual fading into obscurity. That's my whole point behind "casual gaming". It's a fickle market, it's connoisseurs change their minds over what's hot and what's not very frequently, and it would be a gigantic risk for any company to start developing big budget projects such as the aforementioned games with that market in mind. Which is why we're seeing so many low budget waggle games and rehashes. Enjoy the Nintendo 1st parties, I'm sure they'll be excellent, but don't hold your breath waiting for 3rd parties to start releasing AAA quality games for the Wii.

Quote :

"the 'overwhelming majority' doesn't give a shit about "antiquated hardware"."

They will when price is no longer a barrier.

[Edited on August 19, 2007 at 5:15 PM. Reason : :]

8/19/2007 5:10:15 PM

Why does a game need to be AAA?

I don't think anyone really considers Wii Sports a AAA game, but it's probably the most popular game out right now. The games that are moving the Wii off store shelves, the mini-game games, could be produced in a garage by three guys for a couple large pizzas and a case of beer.

You can say there are no AAA games for the Wii made by third-party developers, that there are no epic games like Bioshock or Halo 3, but people aren't buying the Wii right now to play those games. They're buying the Wii right now to play their party games and appealing to a larger audience because of it. Down the line might it need some AAA games to appeal to a small segment, but so long as people think Wii Sports is fun, the console's going to sell.

The Wii is a massive success because it's creating an interest in video games from people who would never be interested in a PS3 or a 360. Sure, they may not all buy the console, but a few will. And those who don't buy it will still talk about it. Instead of pandering to the same market, Nintendo is expanding it and from sales figures, doing a pretty damn good job of it.

Fun facts: Most people in the world don't care about pixel count. They don't care about their video games telling an epic story. They don't care about production budget. They don't care about video game realism. They care about having fun. Bioshock, Halo 3, RE5, etc. etc. may be fun to you and a smaller segment of the populace, but being able to sit down and play multiplayer mini-games with friends appeals to a lot more people.

Quote :

"They will when price is no longer a barrier."

Yeah, and they all have HDTVs in their homes. Oh, and when the 'overwhelming majority' starts to care about video games. Video games aren't about hardware, they're about fun and entertainment.

8/19/2007 10:45:05 PM

Yah, there was a day when I was a hardcore gamer, but now I'd rather just play an hour or two of party games with friends over a couple brewsickles. I'll probably end up getting a wii eventually.

8/19/2007 11:01:01 PM

Quote :

"The Wii is a massive success because it's creating an interest in video games from people who would never be interested in a PS3 or a 360. Sure, they may not all buy the console, but a few will. And those who don't buy it will still talk about it. Instead of pandering to the same market, Nintendo is expanding it and from sales figures, doing a pretty damn good job of it."

Actually, its not creating interest in video games, it has created interest in a specific concept (that failed over a decade ago when it was last tried). The Wii has really good console sales but is not doing shit for games (compared to the 360). The 360 has an attach rate for games over 6 while the Wii and PS3 are just over 3. Microsoft has sold more games than the PS3 and Wii combined just since the launch of those consoles.

The Wii is a nifty and expensive little controller but it sucks as a console. Nintendo better have a replacement quick out the door. Hell, I still think they are better off becoming an accessory and software company.

8/19/2007 11:13:51 PM

Quote :

""What would I do? I'd shut it down and give the money back to the shareholders.""

8/19/2007 11:45:01 PM

Quote :

"Actually, its not creating interest in video games, it has created interest in a specific concept (that failed over a decade ago when it was last tried)."

You may not have noticed, but they tied their video games directly to that concept. How is it not creating an interest when there are all these reports of people who would never in a million years pick up a 360 or PS3 controller being entertained playing the Wii? It's at least having people go "hey, maybe video games aren't just for the nerdy kids living in their parent's basement".

I don't understand how you can say it sucks as a console, when it's selling well and when a lot of people are having a bunch of fun playing it. That's the entire point of the video game industry, isn't it?

8/19/2007 11:45:49 PM

[Edited on August 19, 2007 at 11:52 PM. Reason : Meh]

8/19/2007 11:51:04 PM

Here's a thought, why is the Wii doing so well? It really does come down to price.

Are Americans making any more than they were when xbox/gamecube/ps2 all launched? No.

Who is? Those young gamers (us) who at the time begged and pleaded and sold all our baseball cards to buy 1, only 1, of those consoles at a time.

But now, well shit it looks like most of us on this thread can afford to at least buy 2 of the Next Gens if we wanted too. So what does that do for us as a demographic? It regulates ALL OF US to "bitch" status.

However the typical American family ( 3 kids, 2 dogs, 1,000 pounds total) (I kid!) is what Sony Microsoft and Nintendo market too. Don't fool yourself, Sony loves the kids, not just the 35 yr old fanboys.

Most mothers and fathers I worked with ask me about each console and their pro's and cons. However they normally have their mind made up already. Its on the Wii.
Why?

Price, games, and structure.

The price IS a huge deal. $250 for a legitimate family console and game? Every family can afford this. EVERY ONE. Like furrbies or pokemon, the Wii wins in the minds of parents BUYING these systems hand over fist b/c they are cheap enough while they don't have to break the bank. If Americans we're much more well off than 10 years ago, the PS3 might have had a chance. And the 360 would be outselling the Wii.


But but, what if the PS3 was $250?

Games. The marketing for PS3 family games


Like that sentence doesn't exist. Xbox 360 has got the tried and true casual family games, but still markets damn violent Halo and GoW as their bread and butter. Thats just never going to win over new families with tots. Ever.


Thus leads you to structure of the entire consoles. Wii is geared towards the same crowd the NES was. New non-gaming families. Sony is after the Americans who wish they were Japanese is FF MMDXVI, and older gamers who want the best Lara Croft ass money can buy. While Microsoft has found their own loyal fans, like Nintendo, thanks to Halo, but those same fans will still buy a Nintendo b/c they too are Mario loving freaks. Microsoft's Xbox 360 is like the "iPod" of consoles. Everyone's got one.


And thats my story. Good thread btw bbehe.

[Edited on August 20, 2007 at 12:03 AM. Reason : $$ point]

8/20/2007 12:01:02 AM

Everyone has an xbox 360??? I'm not sure I know one person with one, and I work in a very nerdy environment.

8/20/2007 12:09:56 AM

Quote :

"Nintendo better have a replacement quick out the door."

funniest statement of the thread so far.

8/20/2007 12:10:02 AM

Quote :

"You can say there are no AAA games for the Wii made by third-party developers, that there are no epic games like Bioshock or Halo 3, but people aren't buying the Wii right now to play those games. They're buying the Wii right now to play their party games and appealing to a larger audience because of it. Down the line might it need some AAA games to appeal to a small segment, but so long as people think Wii Sports is fun, the console's going to sell."

Then tell me this, why in the world is Nintendo concentrating their efforts now on getting Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, etc.... out the door? In theory, those games will appeal to a relatively small percentage of Wii owners, correct? Why aren't they working full bore on Wii Sports 2 or Wii Play 2? Those games haven't even been announced. In fact, Nintendo has vehemently denied the existence of Wii Sports 2 all together.

The reason is because Nintendo isn't dumb, and are thinking the same thing I am They can't rely on the casual fan to drive their system forever, because that market is extremely unreliable. Like msb2ncsu said, just look at attach rates. At the end of the day, they have to go back to their base, those gamers who have been playing their games all their life. I question the Wii's ability to compete with the 360 and PS3 in the long term, when it comes to those types of games.

8/20/2007 4:40:08 AM

Yeah, well I think it would help if they'd get third party buy-in and efforts. They (3rd parties) have to know theres enough people with the console out there to check out their games. Ahh well. Nintendo's in-house IP's are unusually strong, always have been. Lots of creativity and just common gaming fun.....sure some of it is nostalgic but it's always quality. Ask any Wii owner and they'll tell you that Mario Kart, Metroid, Mario Galaxy, and Smash Brothers are 'insta-buys'.

But the 3rd party support has to step the fuck up to make Wii more successful for the standard 'video gamer' - although I completely understand and appreciate the new market Wii is going after. They are revolutionizing the art of integrating the casual gamer....most people don't want to learn complex buttton configs and setups of story and other shit for 10 minutes before a game starts.

Shit, the Nintendo DS and Wii are directly responsible for getting my fiancee into gaming so, well, thats an illustration in motion for me. But as a hardcore gamer myself I'll always miss nintendo's bull charge in the 90s with arguably the most rocking' console in history.

8/20/2007 7:28:09 AM

Quote :

"Then tell me this, why in the world is Nintendo concentrating their efforts now on getting Metroid Prime 3, Super Mario Galaxy, Super Smash Brothers, Mario Kart, etc.... out the door?"

Mario Kart and SSB are party games. They have full single player modes, but they're still games that anyone can pick up and play without knowing anything.

Quote :

"Why aren't they working full bore on Wii Sports 2 or Wii Play 2? Those games haven't even been announced. In fact, Nintendo has vehemently denied the existence of Wii Sports 2 all together. "

Oh, sorry, you must have forgotten your earlier post of:

Quote :

"Shrike: And if you'd been paying attention the gaming industry for past, oh, 20 YEARS, you'd know that game developers are notrious LIARS."

Quote :

"The reason is because Nintendo isn't dumb, and are thinking the same thing I am They can't rely on the casual fan to drive their system forever, because that market is extremely unreliable. Like msb2ncsu said, just look at attach rates. At the end of the day, they have to go back to their base, those gamers who have been playing their games all their life. I question the Wii's ability to compete with the 360 and PS3 in the long term, when it comes to those types of games."

Except Nintendo doesn't need to rely on software sales to make money. Sony and MS don't make money unless they move games.

8/20/2007 8:13:34 AM

Where are all the good Wii games?

So far, I'm underwhelmed.

8/20/2007 8:49:10 AM

i don't think anyone will 'win' this round.... sony at this point is on unstable ground it seems...

wii will probably come out on top overall

8/20/2007 8:56:23 AM

Quote :

"The Wii has really good console sales but is not doing shit for games (compared to the 360). The 360 has an attach rate for games over 6 while the Wii and PS3 are just over 3. Microsoft has sold more games than the PS3 and Wii combined just since the launch of those consoles."

Yeah but the 360 has been out for a year longer than the PS3 and Wii. Obviously that extra year has given game developers a little more time to figure things out for the 360 and develop better games. I don't think that argument would be entirely valid until you give the PS3 and Wii another year and see what games they have to offer.

8/20/2007 9:40:16 AM

Attach rates mean crap.

Here's why.

360 probably has about 3 times the number of games (if not more) as Wii, and has sold about the same number of consoles. Put that into perspective, and Wii consumers are actually buying more games.

For the PS3, they have sold extremely few consoles, and are yet equal to the Wii in terms of attach rate, which means gamers bought a heck lot of titles.

Also, attach rates is a pretty simple calculation which doesn't take into consideration the good and the bad games. It's just numbers.

8/20/2007 9:46:08 AM

Quote :

"You may not have noticed, but they tied their video games directly to that concept."

You may have noticed, the Wii isn't selling games. People are enjoying the concept, but not the games.

Quote :

"Yeah but the 360 has been out for a year longer than the PS3 and Wii. Obviously that extra year has given game developers a little more time to figure things out for the 360 and develop better games. I don't think that argument would be entirely valid until you give the PS3 and Wii another year and see what games they have to offer. "

Bullshit. The PS3 was delayed a year which actually gave them an extra year of pre-release development time but the 360 and PS3 dev started at pretty much the same time. The Wii didn't require any strenuous engine work for developers (which is going to take the bulk of the work for a generation change). All they had to do was work with a controller.. too say that they had anywhere near the development investment required of 360 or PS3 is asinine.

8/20/2007 10:58:08 AM

Quote :

" I don't think that argument would be entirely valid until you give the PS3 and Wii another year and see what games they have to offer."

No, the reason attachment rate comparisons between the 360, PS3, and Wii is a dumb thing to look at is because 360 owners have had up to an additional year to buy games. It has nothing to do with development time.

If a console is out twice as long, it makes perfect sense that the amount of crap bought for it would be greater. It's not like people are buying 6 360 games a month, but only 3 Wii/PS3 games a month.

Per Ars:

Quote :

"The game attach rate is defined as the average number of games purchased per game system, calculated by simply dividing the total number of games sold by the total number of consoles sold."

So all the PS3/Wii attachment rate means is that over the span of the additional year that the 360 has been out, people have bought an average of 3 more games for a significantly larger catalog.

[Edited on August 20, 2007 at 11:44 AM. Reason : .]

8/20/2007 11:30:54 AM

^ also over a longer period of time

8/20/2007 1:56:34 PM

Don't forget the Wii's attach rate is skewed by a game that was bundled with a console, a game that was bundled with a Wiimote, and a Gamecube port.

8/20/2007 3:00:44 PM

Quote :

"If a console is out twice as long, it makes perfect sense that the amount of crap bought for it would be greater. It's not like people are buying 6 360 games a month, but only 3 Wii/PS3 games a month."

No console has had a video game attach rate higher than the 360 (at this stage in the market). THe attach rate for the 360 in its first month was at 3.9 at launch (higher than either Wii or PS3). Hell, the attach rate of games in Japan is higher for the 360 (3.57) than either the PS3 (1.67) or Wii (2.54). Considering 360 has yet to unleash the juggernaut that is Halo3 (not to mention Fable 2, Mass Effect, Halo Wars, Assassin's Creed, etc.) I'd say its safe to say they are thoroughly dominating game sales (also have the lead on accessory attach rate, which is amazing considering the party nature of the Wii). ANd its not just attach rate, only counting since the launch of the Ps3/Wii the 360 has still sold more games than the other two combined and has total revenue (games, accessories, consoles) of almost twice the PS3 or Wii in the same time frame.

http://gamerscoreblog.com/photos/photos/images/552249/original.aspx
http://gamerscoreblog.com/photos/photos/images/552247/original.aspx

This doesn't take into account the number of new/original games on Live Arcade so don't bring the lame ass Wii Sports/Play crap into this.

8/20/2007 5:57:21 PM

Wait, do 360 attach rates include those $5-10 Arcade games?

8/20/2007 6:13:40 PM

Quote :

"No console has had a video game attach rate higher than the 360 (at this stage in the market). THe attach rate for the 360 in its first month was at 3.9 at launch (higher than either Wii or PS3). Hell, the attach rate of games in Japan is higher for the 360 (3.57) than either the PS3 (1.67) or Wii (2.54)."

It's like you didn't read my post at all or are too dumb to comprehend it. Attachment rate is a very dumb metric to use to calculate success.

Quote :

"Considering 360 has yet to unleash the juggernaut that is Halo3 (not to mention Fable 2, Mass Effect, Halo Wars, Assassin's Creed, etc.) I'd say its safe to say they are thoroughly dominating game sales"

Yeah, and the PS3 and Wii haven't shot their wad yet either. What's your point?

Quote :

"ANd its not just attach rate, only counting since the launch of the Ps3/Wii the 360 has still sold more games than the other two combined and has total revenue (games, accessories, consoles) of almost twice the PS3 or Wii in the same time frame."

Wait, you mean that something that's more expensive brings in more money even if there's equivalent sales? Shocking.

Quote :

"also have the lead on accessory attach rate, which is amazing considering the party nature of the Wii"

There are probably more 360 accessories (since you know they're probably counting dumb shit like face plates too) and it also wouldn't shock me if they were counting the Premium/Elite hard drives towards the accessory attach rate if Nintendo is going to count Wii Sports towards normal attach rate.

8/20/2007 6:16:19 PM

Quote :

"Wait, do 360 attach rates include those $5-10 Arcade games?"

No, they don't. If they did it would be ugly.

Quote :

"It's like you didn't read my post at all or are too dumb to comprehend it. Attachment rate is a very dumb metric to use to calculate success."

I'm not using it as the metric for absolute success but to say it is not significant is asinine. My point was that the Wii/PS3 is not selling games at a rate comparable to the next generation standard (the 360). The attach rate does show a player base that is not getting disinterested with the console and catalog of games. The Wii is a hot concept but fails to have a lasting draw (the PS3 simply sucks).

Quote :

"Yeah, and the PS3 and Wii haven't shot their wad yet either. What's your point?"

My point was simply that 360 game sales are going nothing but higher. I don't see anything in the PS3's immediate future that can trump what the 360 has on the docket. The Wii does have some big titles lined up but current game sales seem to suggest the player base has grown bored with the offerings (the 360 wasn't suffering this stagnation despite what was considered to be a weak early lineup).

Quote :

"Wait, you mean that something that's more expensive brings in more money even if there's equivalent sales? Shocking."

Revenue is revenue, no matter how you try to ignore it. Generally, people are not going to buy as much if there is a higher pricepoint. The 360 is beating the competition in units and dollars. The bottom line is that there is a strong player base that is active.

Quote :

"There are probably more 360 accessories (since you know they're probably counting dumb shit like face plates too) and it also wouldn't shock me if they were counting the Premium/Elite hard drives towards the accessory attach rate if Nintendo is going to count Wii Sports towards normal attach rate."

These figures are calculated by NPD, not Microsoft. If they are counting faceplates (which I highly doubt) then they would be counting Wii faceplates, storage/cradle trays, controller gloves, etc. that is offered for the Wii. Honestly, I expected the Wii to absolutely trounce the competition is accessory sales because it is geared towards party play and has things like the throwback controllers.

8/20/2007 10:32:39 PM

whats funny is that i summed up this whole thread in the very first reply with on sentence.

8/20/2007 10:43:33 PM

i love how people are arguing the wii's only selling point is the price. for $30 more you can go to any retailer walk past all the wii campers and walk out with a much more powerful xbox 360 core. someone from the "wii sells only bc it's cheap" camp explain why that isn't happening???

8/21/2007 1:25:56 AM

not only that, but a lot of stores dont let you try out the wii since its hard to keep up with wiimotes, so most people are forced to decide whether its worth it or not. with the xbox and ps3, everybody knows what to expect, and you can try em out at any walmart you walk into. i'd think that would cancel out any advantage the wii has in price.

8/21/2007 6:14:28 AM

^^because they already bought a 360 over a year ago?

8/21/2007 7:21:09 AM

Quote :

"I'm not using it as the metric for absolute success but to say it is not significant is asinine. My point was that the Wii/PS3 is not selling games at a rate comparable to the next generation standard (the 360). The attach rate does show a player base that is not getting disinterested with the console and catalog of games. The Wii is a hot concept but fails to have a lasting draw (the PS3 simply sucks)."

You know what, nevermind. You're just a moron.

8/21/2007 8:43:24 AM

8/23/2007 2:08:42 PM

PS3 is getting their hiny handed back to them on a motion sensing controller.

8/23/2007 2:09:40 PM

Check it out, a Wii racing game by Midway to compete with the likes of Forza 2 and Grand Turismo 5, sure the graphics are a little dated, but I'm sure it's fun!!!!

http://kotaku.com/gaming/no-no-no/cruisn-is-the-worst+looking-wii-game-ever-292534.php

This is exactly what I'm talking about. Midway isn't some fly by night game studio. They are large, respectable company with a number of top shelf games in their library. Yet, they come with crap like this for Wii.

8/23/2007 3:26:30 PM

maybe it's for the virtual console. I thought midway was more into that.

8/23/2007 3:31:20 PM

I don't think that game was ever meant to compete with Forza 2 or Gran Turismo 5. If it was, they weren't fooling much of anyone. Cruis'n is based of an arcade-style racer on the N64 and in the arcades.

I'm not gonna deny there's a lot of shovelware on the Wii (and more on the way), but Midway's hardly a respectable game publisher. Glancing at their releases, Blitz and Mortal Kombat are their only halfway-noteworthy games for all 3 systems. Their John Woo game had positive feedback from PA though.

edit: Looking at the previous generation, they seem to have some other noteworthy stuff. Just when I think "of system-selling exclusives", Midway doesn't spring to mind. Capcom, Konami, Square, EA, Activision, and Ubisoft do. *shrug*

(They're also publishing UT 3 for PS3, but that's developed by Epic Games)

[Edited on August 23, 2007 at 3:54 PM. Reason : .]

8/23/2007 3:46:14 PM

Quote :

""

Oh those xenophobic Japs.

8/23/2007 4:31:39 PM

Facebook poll was interesting:
http://ncst.facebook.com/polls.php?poll_id=18825381872&ref=pns
PS3: 21%
XBOX360: 45%
Wii: 34%

Responses by sex:

Female - 160
Male - 840

Breakdown by sex:

PS3:
Female - 18
Male - 21

360:
Female - 26
Male - 49

Wii:
Female - 56
Male - 30

[Edited on August 28, 2007 at 3:20 PM. Reason : www]

8/28/2007 3:20:17 PM

for shrike:

Quote :

"NPD: 'Heavy Gamers' heaviest spenders New report from industry-standard research group dissects US gaming public into six subsets, finds smallest group buys most games. By Tor Thorsen, GameSpot Posted Jul 3, 2007 1:16 pm PT This just in: Hardcore gamers are hardcore spenders. That's the main takeaway from "Gamer Segmentation II," the latest report from the NPD Group. Earlier this year, the industry-research firm interviewed 11,638 gamers aged 6 to 44 and sifted through their responses. The result? A detailed demographic breakdown of how the estimated 191 million gamers in the US buy and play their games. In the report, NPD divided gamers into six different segments. Some 33 percent of US gamers are "Avid PC Gamers," who play an average 13.6 hours per week primarily on a PC or Macintosh. NPD found that members of the group were relatively thrifty, buying an average of 1.4 titles per quarter. The next-largest group is "Secondary Gamers" with 22 percent of the US gaming population. They play just 6.5 hours a week, mainly on a PC or Mac, with only a third owning the nation's most popular console, the PlayStation 2. Secondary Gamers buy an average of only 0.8 games each quarter, the smallest number of any group. The biggest group of non-PC gamers is "Avid Console Gamers," who make up 20 percent of the US gaming population. They play around 10.7 hours per week on at least one console, owning an average of 1.6 consoles and 0.8 portables. Avid Console Gamers buy an average of 1.9 games per quarter, just below the two games bought each quarter by the next-largest group, "Mass Market Gamers." Mass Market Gamers comprise just 15 percent of the US gaming public, and play an average of 8.9 hours each week, mainly on the PS2 and PC. Oddly, the section boasts a higher average console ownership, 1.8 consoles, than Avid Console Gamers. The next-largest group is "Causal Kid Gamers." As the name implies, this is the youngest group, composed almost entirely of children ages 6-12. They own an average of one console and 0.5 portables, primarily the PS2 and Game Boy Advance. Likely due to parental oversight, this group games the least--just 3.6 hours per week--and ties Secondary Gamers' average of 0.8 game purchases per quarter. Last but not least, the smallest section is the most hardcore of all. Although they make up just 2 percent of the gaming public, "Heavy Gamers" own an average of 2.8 consoles and 1.9 portables. They play a whopping 39.3 hours a week, mainly on the Xbox 360 and Nintendo Wii, and buy a budget-busting average of 13.1 games every quarter--or roughly 4.5 games each month. Though small--numbering around 3.8 million--this last group's spending habits make it coveted by publishers and console makers alike. "Heavy gamers have always been a focal segment for the games industry because they're so deeply invested in gaming," said NPD analyst Anita Frazier. "The potential for industry growth lies with the other, larger groups, and getting them increasingly involved in gaming over time." Besides buying in bulk, Heavy Gamers are also the most likely to buy games via digital download. However, they are trumped by Avid PC Gamers, who have the highest number of individuals who have purchased over half their games via online delivery. Three of every five Heavy Gamers buy game content via microtransactions like those on the PlayStation Store, Wii Virtual Console, or Xbox Live Marketplace. Heavy Gamers are also the most likely to play games online, with 83 percent of the group taking on opponents over the Internet. No doubt boosted by the popularity of massively multiplayer online role-playing games, 74 percent of Avid PC Gamers play over the Web. "

8/28/2007 3:23:51 PM

I hate statistics that point out the obvious (the smallest % of gamers buy the most games, who didn't know this). Like I've been saying, in the long run, casual gamers can't be kept interested and don't spend enough money to matter and the hardcore sect will eventually get (or already have gotten) bored with the Wii. This whole casual gaming craze will fade and things will go back to business as usual. Look at what Ubisoft's saying.

http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSL2287657620070822

Essentially, make shovel ware for the Wii to fund real games for the 360/PS3.

8/28/2007 4:15:17 PM

Out of curiosity has this thread cut down on the ps3 thread trolling?

8/28/2007 4:20:55 PM

That NPD data doesn't even mention the idea of casual gaming; namely those who own just a console (like a Wii) and never touch computer games outside of Solitaire.

Quote :

"Essentially, make shovel ware for the Wii to fund real games for the 360/PS3."

REAL GAMES
SERIOUS BUSINESS
SCREW ANYTHING NOT 1080P WITH 7.1 SOUND

You're being elitist about timesinks.

8/28/2007 4:30:10 PM

I'm not being elitist at all. If you can't accept that there is a difference between a game like Rayman Raving Rabids and Bioshock, you're just being block headed.

8/28/2007 4:40:34 PM

there's a definite difference. Although depending on the audience, the preferred'or more marketable product could swing between the two. I don't like the split between 'hardcore' and 'casual' because there truly are people in the middle that can like both. I do admit to being bored with the wii but thats not because I don't like casual more lighthearted games, it's becuase their library is about as deep as a kiddie pool. No depth, not enough quality titles. That and the control scheme is not being realized save all but 1st party IP's or established franchises. RE4 (and that's a remake) and MP3 are the only ones to make the controls feel, like, awesome. (the way they exited us and sold us on the system in the first place).

For my fiancee, Rayman and stuff like Warioware gets high marks. For me, Bioshock takes Rayman and rubs its balls all over it's head. I have both games. So, I dunno.

8/28/2007 5:00:32 PM

Quote :

"I'm not being elitist at all. If you can't accept that there is a difference between a game like Rayman Raving Rabids and Bioshock, you're just being block headed."

Just like theres a difference between Zelda: Twilight Princess (Wii) and Rayman Raving Rabids (360)

Both consoles have shitty games, minigame games, good games, and epic play this game now! games...shocker.

8/28/2007 10:28:42 PM

is the wii circle jerk still going on?

8/28/2007 11:27:22 PM

yeah...11 million person circle jerk.

8/28/2007 11:36:39 PM

Only a couple more milestones for Nintendo...

1. Sell more Wiis than 360s in the US
2. Sell more Wiis than PS2s

9/8/2007 11:26:02 AM

Quote :

"If you can't accept that there is a difference between a game like Rayman Raving Rabids and Bioshock, you're just being block headed."

There sure is a difference. If I'm alone and playing a game, I would prefer Bioshock hands down . If I have friends around, I would prefer Rayman hands down.

But to compare similar games, I'd prefer to play MP3 over Bioshock.

So, as always Shrike, nice try, thanks for playing.

9/9/2007 1:22:07 AM

Meanwhile, two weeks later...

9/9/2007 1:53:21 AM