of course he shouldn't be allowed inside the construction site, just like you or me. but can't he just lay his wreath outside the fence like everyone else? they can't stop him from doing that can they?

9/21/2007 6:05:15 PM

who knows? but if he were to do that, and someone blew his batshit crazy head off, I wouldn't think bad of that person.

9/22/2007 3:35:18 PM

^people in other countries say the same thing about your president. What has Ahmadinejad done to you or the world to deserve death and this kind of treatment? He is the president of a Islamic country, to successfully rule a nation like that it requires a hard line. Keeping his people happy is a lot harder then an American president keeping his people happy.

Islam governs and rules everything over there which is something you don't understand so you are afraid of it. Arabs and Persians are not to be feared but are to be respected, just like any other culture such as the Chinese. Thats the problem with being at the top, you become too arrogant to see the differences between your culture and someone else's....thats what leads to your downfall.

You would be hard pressed NOT to find dirt on every politician in every country. People in power are easily corrupted. You have no right to point the finger at him when your own President is responsible for far worse atrocities.

[Edited on September 22, 2007 at 7:34 PM. Reason : fda]

9/22/2007 7:33:51 PM

Quote :

"Arabs and Persians are not to be feared but are to be respected, just like any other culture such as the Chinese. Thats the problem with being at the top, you become too arrogant to see the differences between your culture and someone else's....thats what leads to your downfall."

Sure I can see the differences between our culture an theirs. Their culture tells them to subjugate women, suppress basic rights such as free speech and murder civilians in the name of Allah.

They aren't worthy of my respect.

9/22/2007 9:48:44 PM

typical simpleton response.

9/22/2007 9:49:39 PM

haven't read this thread but i'm so freaking excited about him going to columbia university...50 percent of the time is devoted to questions from the audience too....cant wait to see him on 60 minutes...i wish he would come to america more often

9/22/2007 10:28:40 PM

They should send Taser-boy over to this event.

9/22/2007 11:06:36 PM

Quote :

"Their culture tells them to subjugate women, suppress basic rights such as free speech and murder civilians in the name of Allah."

The first two are arguable. They're perhaps legitimate complaints about Iranian culture, though you should note that many Iranians favor freer speech and improving the status of women. The last one, though, is completely ridiculous. Even when it comes to killing Iraqis, we've done about as well as the Iranians did.

9/22/2007 11:53:23 PM

Quote :

"^people in other countries say the same thing about your president. What has Ahmadinejad done to you or the world to deserve death and this kind of treatment? He is the president of a Islamic country, to successfully rule a nation like that it requires a hard line. Keeping his people happy is a lot harder then an American president keeping his people happy. Islam governs and rules everything over there which is something you don't understand so you are afraid of it. Arabs and Persians are not to be feared but are to be respected, just like any other culture such as the Chinese. Thats the problem with being at the top, you become too arrogant to see the differences between your culture and someone else's....thats what leads to your downfall. You would be hard pressed NOT to find dirt on every politician in every country. People in power are easily corrupted. You have no right to point the finger at him when your own President is responsible for far worse atrocities."

hmm, some of that is true. however, the US President does not deny the fact that the holocaust took place, hasn't vowed to wipe israel off the map, and while the intelligence level might not be high, isn't as batshit crazy as iranian pres.

9/23/2007 11:04:44 AM

what's your point?

9/23/2007 11:27:19 AM

Quote :

"hmm, some of that is true. however, the US President does not deny the fact that the holocaust took place, hasn't vowed to wipe israel off the map, and while the intelligence level might not be high, isn't as batshit crazy as iranian pres."

Like I said, he takes a hard line to please his audience, just like Bush makes his audience think every arab is evil and needs to be conquered and 'liberated' (el oh el?). Bush is more crazy then Ahmadinejad. why? Because Actions speak louder then words.

9/23/2007 1:36:13 PM

^thats why I dont hardly ever post in the SB. thats a bat-shit crazy statement right there. its impossible to have a political discussion with a person like you.

9/23/2007 6:19:08 PM

he's coming to rescue warren jeffs

9/23/2007 6:25:49 PM

^^American freedom at its best... Its your way or the highway. Who wants to have any discussions with someone like you anyway.

9/23/2007 9:15:05 PM

There's no "discussion" with you. You've demogogued the issue, hijacked the thread and shifted the focus to Bush. I've asked you several times to stay on the topic of Ahmadinejad, but you refuse in your fervent hatred of all things George Bush.

9/23/2007 9:42:32 PM

call me crazy, but if he really wants to honour the victoms of 9/11, he could stop supporting and sponsoring terrorism. crazy, I know

9/23/2007 10:07:47 PM

^^stop your whining. Both points have been made, that he should be allowed to and that he shouldn't. The whole point I'm making is that you are all basing your reasoning on why he shouldn't be allowed based off of fabrications your government is telling you. How is that not related to this thread?

9/24/2007 1:03:11 AM

i'm inclined to agree with Golvoko on this one.

the US press, as fed by the official administration propaganda, has successfully demonized the President of Iran to the point that we can barely even tolerate the notion that he will come give an open speech at a university, much less be able to lay a freakin' wreath at or about Ground Zero.

IIRC, there wasn't a single Iranian involved in the 9/11 attacks. IIRC, the 9/11 attacks were completely planned and executed by Saudi Arabian nationals.

...

In any event, even if you buy the official safety and security reasons for denying him access to honor victims at the NYC site --- Denying him access to publicly honor US victims will hurt the US more in the long run than it will help. Photos shown around the world of the Iranian President honoring US victims would help the US more in the long run than it would hurt.

Admittedly the effect probably wont be espeically significant one way or the other, but all we're doing is further isolating ourselves from the rest of the world.

America used to engage the world, even our enemies, leading most to admire us, and our enemies to respect us. At least i think we did. I seem to remember it. or was it just a myth my father made up?

9/24/2007 1:26:46 AM

Quote :

"^^American freedom at its best... Its your way or the highway. Who wants to have any discussions with someone like you anyway."

hardly. I havent attacked anyone with names nor have I been unreasonable. Ive done nothing but try to debate a point, you've done nothing but sit and think of the most radical thing you can say to skew the point and take the thread in another direction.

the easiest way to end an argument is to make statements that are radical and not qualifiable. there is no counterpoint to lunacy. for example:

me: the moon is pretty tonight. it must be a full moon.
you: not possible! it is made of stinky cheese and will kill you if you bite it.

end of discussion. see how that works?

9/24/2007 8:27:05 AM

U.S. Focus on Ahmadinejad Puzzles Iranians
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/24/world/middleeast/24iran.html

9/24/2007 9:27:24 AM

Interesting article. "He's not that important, just ignore him and he'll get ripped apart domestically."

9/24/2007 9:35:45 AM

ok first:

Quote :

"me: the moon is pretty tonight. it must be a full moon. you: not possible! it is made of stinky cheese and will kill you if you bite it. "

that right there, is just plain dumb. That is nothing remotely close to anything i've been saying. not even a hint of closeness. gg

Quote :

" hardly. I havent attacked anyone with names nor have I been unreasonable. Ive done nothing but try to debate a point, you've done nothing but sit and think of the most radical thing you can say to skew the point and take the thread in another direction."

I have done nothing but debate the point and tell you WHY you think the way you do, which is based on FACT. One thing you need to get used to is the stinging truth. You aren't always right and certainly not when it comes to the international community. If you want to be a racists prick and buy into everything your administration says then you go ahead and be ignorant. However, some of us know that the rest of the world isn't part of some evil empire.

[Edited on September 24, 2007 at 10:35 AM. Reason : a]

9/24/2007 10:34:37 AM

Ahmadinejad draws a lot of attention from the West because he shares many of the same ideas that Osama Bin Laden does. Regardless of his real power, he is a public figure and represents Iran in some form in the media and globally.

9/24/2007 10:53:04 AM

Quote :

"I have done nothing but debate the point and tell you WHY you think the way you do, which is based on FACT. One thing you need to get used to is the stinging truth. You aren't always right and certainly not when it comes to the international community. If you want to be a racists prick and buy into everything your administration says then you go ahead and be ignorant. However, some of us know that the rest of the world isn't part of some evil empire."

you just proved my point!!!! what did I ever say that was racist??? I guess the idea now is for me to defend myself against that, further skewing the argument in a different direction?

Lets take a look at your argument

You took at debate about Ahmadinejad and whether or not we should allow him to go to GZ and morphed it into a pro-Hezbollah debate (ignoring the hostage part of it) then turned it into an anti-Isreal rant, characterizing Americans as scum, you then move to "bush is crazier than Admadinejad," finally topping it off with "you are a racist prick." notice the trend? you make radical statements to flame and distract from the topic at hand.

GG indeed. fuck yourself.

9/24/2007 11:04:31 AM

^WTF are you smoking? I definitely don't want some of that. I didn't skew anything, everything I've said is related to the topic, if you don't like what I'm saying, get over it and move along.

9/24/2007 11:10:25 AM

Im actually surprised that you havent started linking salisburyboy's posts yet.

9/24/2007 11:48:37 AM

America sucks pretty bad at diplomacy latly.

Quote :

"there wasn't a single Iranian involved in the 9/11 attacks. IIRC, the 9/11 attacks were completely planned and executed by Saudi Arabian nationals. "

Yeah that fact is easily forgotten because Saudi Arabia is our buddies in middle eastern trade and oil imports. A lot easier is it to shift 9/11 blame to someone else say Iraq who is ruled by the evil Saddam who we fought a war against in the 90's.

[Edited on September 24, 2007 at 12:03 PM. Reason : ;]

9/24/2007 12:02:41 PM

Quote :

""Ahmadinejad did not say he was going to wipe Israel off the map because no such idiom exists in Persian," remarked Juan Cole, a Middle East specialist at the University of Michigan and critic of American policy who has argued that the Iranian president was misquoted. "He did say he hoped its regime, i.e., a Jewish-Zionist state occupying Jerusalem, would collapse." Since Iran has not "attacked another country aggressively for over a century," he said in an e-mail exchange, "I smell the whiff of war propaganda." Jonathan Steele, a columnist for the left-leaning Guardian newspaper in London, recently laid out the case this way: "The Iranian president was quoting an ancient statement by Iran's first Islamist leader, the late Ayatollah Khomeini, that 'this regime occupying Jerusalem must vanish from the page of time,' just as the Shah's regime in Iran had vanished. He was not making a military threat. He was calling for an end to the occupation of Jerusalem at some point in the future. The 'page of time' phrase suggests he did not expect it to happen soon.""

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/06/11/weekinreview/11bronner.html?_r=1&ex=1307678400

An interesting discussion of the subtleties of translating the phrase in question from Persian to English.

9/24/2007 12:41:34 PM

DaBird, you are severely misinformed and I pity you.

^I read that a while back, wasn't there a thread on it before? I completely forgot about that whole ordeal.

[Edited on September 24, 2007 at 1:11 PM. Reason : fda]

9/24/2007 1:10:17 PM

Somebody want to tell me why he doesn't just walk down to Ground Zero like thousands of other people do every day if he really wants to pay his respects?

9/24/2007 1:50:17 PM

Since we hate the Iranian Prez so much why don't we just invade and take him out.

oh wait we did that in Iraq and look where it got us

9/24/2007 1:56:13 PM

^^ Get'cha gun get'cha gun ... fuck with the niggas with the Guns and ya might get shot.

9/24/2007 1:58:10 PM

Quote :

"Somebody want to tell me why he doesn't just walk down to Ground Zero like thousands of other people do every day if he really wants to pay his respects?"

When you are a guest in a neighbors house, you don't raid the refrigerator without permission.

9/24/2007 2:06:56 PM

That and he doesn't want to be assaulted by anyone. I'm sure heads of state have to pre-approve any official visits they have otherwise the have absolutely no security.

9/24/2007 2:08:11 PM

i think he smokes a lot of pot.

9/24/2007 2:08:41 PM

Quote :

" Bush is more crazy then Ahmadinejad. why? Because Actions speak louder then words."

At the very least, that's how the rest of the world sees it.

And if you really do analyze Bush's statements from the perspective of a non-American, his axis of evil talk comes off as equally nutty to Ahmadinehad's Israel should be dismantled.

9/24/2007 9:37:59 PM

finally someone who isnt a moron

9/24/2007 10:48:49 PM

^EVERYBODY WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS AN IDIOT!!!

If you wanna be taken seriously, leave the ad hominem behind.

9/25/2007 2:29:33 AM

^dude what? Have you not read anything el nacho, aaronburr, dabird, and the lot have posted? They can no way be taken seriously because not only do they think everyone who disagrees with them is an idiot. But everyone is also a fag, dickwad, assmonkey, bitch, nigger, jew hater, etc...etc...etc...Prove them wrong and they resort to name calling.

2nd....I was just trying to make a simple joke using moron's username.... take a chill pill

9/25/2007 4:26:58 AM

dude you are unbelievable. the only name calling i did was telling you to FUCK YOURSELF and that was in response to you calling me a 'racist prick'

go back and find one post other than that one where i did any of that.

9/25/2007 9:05:46 AM

Iran sounds like a republican paradise you'd think Bush and Ahmadinejad would be buddy buddy...

Quote :

"In Iran, we don't have homosexuals"

Quote :

"His remarks, which lasted about an hour, made several general references to God, religion and science."

Quote :

"enjoy the highest levels of freedom"

- We know how much bush likes to talk about our freedom

9/25/2007 9:57:15 AM

Quote :

"Since Iran has not "attacked another country aggressively for over a century," he said in an e-mail exchange, "I smell the whiff of war propaganda." "

LOLOL because hezbollah isn't an extension of the Iranian regime

9/25/2007 12:02:04 PM

why dont you go to college in Iran then? oh yeah, cause Ahmadinejad would just shut down the university since he doesnt like free speech...BUT COME ON, HE'S A GREAT GUY, MUCH BETTER THAN BUSH

some of you are so pathetic its not even funny

9/25/2007 12:06:25 PM

We all know though that the Iranian leaders we put into power before the Iranian Revolution were a shining light of democracy throughout the middle east spreading freedom to the Iranian people.

Quote :

"In 1953, President Eisenhower authorized Operation Ajax, and the CIA took the lead in overthrowing Mossadegh and supporting a U.S.-friendly monarch"

Quote :

"The operation was successful in triggering a coup, and within days"

Quote :

"Mohammad Reza Pahlavi returned to power greatly strengthened and his rule became increasingly autocratic in the following years"

Quote :

"the Shah further modernized Iranian industry, but simultaneously crushed all forms of political opposition with his intelligence agency, SAVAK"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran

Operation AJAX what is that???

Quote :

"In 1951, a nationalist politician, Dr. Mohammed Mossadegh rose to prominence in Iran and was elected Prime Minister. As Prime Minister, Mossadegh became enormously popular in Iran by nationalizing the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company (later British Petroleum, BP) which controlled the country's oil reserves. In response, Britain embargoed Iranian oil and began plotting to depose Mossadegh. Members of the British Intelligence Service invited the United States to join them, convincing U.S. President Eisenhower that Mossadegh was reliant on the Tudeh (Communist) Party to stay in power. In 1953, President Eisenhower authorized Operation Ajax, and the CIA took the lead in overthrowing Mossadegh and supporting a U.S.-friendly monarch;"

omg so we w/ the help of the UK overthrew a democratically elected leader replacing him w/ a despot

[Edited on September 25, 2007 at 12:21 PM. Reason : l]

9/25/2007 12:18:06 PM

I find it ironic that some leftists in the US are so full of loathing for GW (right or wrong on its own merits), that they're drawn to anyone who stands up to this administration. This would include someone who opposes pretty much everything they stand for. To wit:
- equal protection for homosexuals
- equal protection for women
- freedom of speech (though it is greater in Iran than, say, Saudi Arabia)
- nuclear proliferation
- not to mention the fact that he denys the holocaust which is a touchstone of the left, especially when it comes to the evils of facism.

The other problem is the fact that opposing Ahmadinejad =/= supporting the Bush administration. This sort of nuance is lost on Golovko whose simple-minded ignorance makes him the hooksaw of this thread.

[Edited on September 25, 2007 at 12:33 PM. Reason : ^ again with the "the US fucked up, so AJ can't be bad.]

9/25/2007 12:24:04 PM

Quote :

"I find it ironic that many leftists in the US are so full of loathing for GW (right or wrong on its own merits), that they're drawn to anyone who stands up to this administration."

The issue is not wanting to support someone who is against GW. The issue is the hypocrisy of the administration current and present.

When a gov't comes along that resists our economic & foreign policy we are overly eager to demonize them as "freedom haters", "dictators", "axis of evil", etc. While in many cases these claims do have merit we have shown throughout history to support foreign governments that exhibit similar human rights infractions as Ahmadinejad but will turn a blind eye since they are US business friendly. Let us not forget either that a large part of the "oppressive society" within Iran was popularly supported by a population desiring a theocratic Islamic society.

Quote :

"again with the "the US fucked up, so AJ can't be bad"

I never said that AJ was not a bad leader. I merely was trying to point out that we eagerly like to pick and choose which dictators to demonize and which ones we turn a blind eye to making our happy trading buddies. At the same time trying to portray the spreaders of democracy when this has clearly not been the case throughout the years. btw bush was NOT even mentioned in the post that you "^." operation AJAX occurred under Eisenhower, and the Islamic revolution occurred during the Carter admin



[Edited on September 25, 2007 at 12:38 PM. Reason : l]

[Edited on September 25, 2007 at 12:40 PM. Reason : ;]

9/25/2007 12:34:06 PM

Quote :

"LOLOL because hezbollah isn't an extension of the Iranian regime"

They are as much an extension of Iran as the Talaban was an extension of the US during the cold war....but this is based purely on speculation from the US government.

however, Hezbollah is fighting much like the Afghans fought because a foreign power was oppressing them and invading their lands.

Quote :

"The other problem is the fact that opposing Ahmadinejad =/= supporting the Bush administration. This sort of nuance is lost on Golovko whose simple-minded ignorance makes him the hooksaw of this thread."

Irony, you are calling me simple minded because I can understand and clearly see the difference between one culture and another. If you want to preach freedom, then Iran is FREE to chose whatever leader they want. Just because he doesn't agree with American policy doesn't give you the right to want him removed from power. You are so ignorant and arrogant its annoying.

You sound like a dumbass, uneducated redneck. "Kill all dem A-rabs" Which is hilarious because you also think Iranians are "A-rabs"

[Edited on September 25, 2007 at 12:41 PM. Reason : fda]

9/25/2007 12:37:17 PM

^^ I'll actually buy that as an intelligent response.

^ Iranians are free to choose their president, yes, but any understanding of Iranian politics will inform you that the hard-core religious leaders are the ones who control the government. AJ's current actions are largely a response to his rising unpopularity at home.

I never once called for his removal. Period. And I would be opposed to any removal of him except by the Iranians themselves.

I never once called Iranians Arabs, or even Persians, since they compose only ~ 51% of the population.

You can either quote where I've said this or you can just keep making stuff up based on your prejudicial assumptions of my character.

[Edited on September 25, 2007 at 12:48 PM. Reason : V since he was responding to my post, I complimented him on his intelligent rebuttal]

9/25/2007 12:42:00 PM

Quote :

"^^ I'll actually buy that as an intelligent response."

who designated you post judge?

9/25/2007 12:43:03 PM

Quote :

"If you want to preach freedom, then Iran is FREE to chose whatever leader they want"

too bad they dont have basic human rights

too bad if this messageboard was based out of Iran it wouldve been shut down long ago, like the universities Ahmadinejad shut down

since Iran is so big on freedom

9/25/2007 12:43:32 PM