Murder, Types of Weapons Used
Percent Distribution by Region, 2006

Total 100.0 67.9 12.2 14.4 5.6
Northeast 100.0 59.6 13.9 22.5 4.0
Midwest 100.0 69.5 10.0 15.3 5.2
South 100.0 69.7 11.3 13.2 5.8
West 100.0 69.2 14.0 10.4 6.4

in order: total: firearms, knives or cutting instruments, unknown, personal weapons (fists, hands, feet,)

http://www.fbi.gov/ucr/cius2006/offenses/expanded_information/data/shrtable_06.html

Quote :

"That's funny, since far more murders are committed without guns than with. Hmmm..."

were all your other proclamations as flat out wrong, I know the one about letting folks own rocket launchers was about as stupid



[Edited on November 2, 2007 at 7:42 PM. Reason : k]

11/2/2007 7:32:07 PM

Quote :

"Just like happened with prohibition, right? No, if you make such guns illegal, the demand for a black market explodes, because there is no legal way to get one!"

Yeah, except people could make alcohol in their bathtubs. I don't know anyone who can make a gun in their house. Guns are different from other black market items in that if you stop the legit market, none are being made and the only way you can get them is to import them from other countries. Since we're already the easiest country to obtain a gun in, the overall number would likely decrease.

Quote :

"DUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR"

Plus, I said I'm not against removing all weapons. But if you're actually arguing that being allowed to own assault rifles and all that shit makes society safer then are a complete idiot. I mean really... Actually take a minute and think about what you just said.

[Edited on November 2, 2007 at 8:04 PM. Reason : ]

11/2/2007 8:02:14 PM

Quote :

"Guns are different from other black market items in that if you stop the legit market, none are being made and the only way you can get them is to import them from other countries."

and do you intend to stop the importation of guns? We can't stop the importation of drugs, for crying out loud! AGAIN, by definition, if you outlaw guns, then ANYONE who wants a gun will HAVE TO GO TO THE BLACK MARKET. How in the world can you argue, then, that making guns illegal will eliminate the black market? I mean jeez.

Quote :

"Yeah, except people could make alcohol in their bathtubs."

The point, however, still stands. Alcohol was prohibited, and the black market for it promptly exploded. People got it no matter what it took. That it could be made in the bathtub didn't matter. If they wanted it, then they got it. So it will be with guns.

Quote :

"But if you're actually arguing that being allowed to own assault rifles and all that shit makes society safer then are a complete idiot. I mean really... Actually take a minute and think about what you just said."

Hey, good job at refuting my points by just calling me an idiot. Good work. Now, go back and address every single point that I made.

11/2/2007 8:17:29 PM

Well jprince totally called you out on your bullshit about violent crimes not being used with guns so I didn't feel I needed to refute all your other bullshit.

Quote :

"The point, however, still stands. Alcohol was prohibited, and the black market for it promptly exploded. People got it no matter what it took. That it could be made in the bathtub didn't matter. If they wanted it, then they got it. So it will be with guns."

This is purely speculation. Alcohol exploded because it was so easy to make. If you make certain guns illegal you completely take them out of the hands of everyone because they stop making them. The people trying to get them in would have them, but that would actually give our police some real crime to fight.

You are an idiot if you think more guns equal less violence. I mean really? How in the hell can you even make that assertion? It doesn't make sense in any context whatsoever.

Also:

Quote :

"Plus, I said I'm not against removing all weapons."

You should be able to have your guns, just not the ones that are used primarily for crime.

11/2/2007 8:29:29 PM

THEY KIN TAKE MY M-1 ABRAMS WHEN THEY PRY THE STEERING WHEEL FROM MAH COLD DEAD FINGERS!!!!1

11/2/2007 8:43:30 PM

this completely turned into bitching about guns

this is one of those stupid arguments, because no matter what you argue about, guns aren't going anywhere........

back to topic!

11/2/2007 11:34:17 PM

^yep that was exactly my point earlier. The amount of energy people waste bitching about things they dont want to happen or exist instead of actually working to make them safer is disappointing.

11/3/2007 9:51:52 AM

Quote :

"Well jprince totally called you out on your bullshit about violent crimes not being used with guns so I didn't feel I needed to refute all your other bullshit."

nice logical fallacy there, fucktard. It's ok, when you are in a battle of wits against someone and all you have is a toothpick, it's understandable to run away.

Quote :

"Alcohol exploded because it was so easy to make."

FALSE! What is SO FUCKING HARD to understand in this? Alcohol was illegal. The only way to get it, then, IS THE BLACK FUCKING MARKET. Please, address that point. By definition, dear, when something is illegal, the only way to get it IS THE BLACK FUCKING MARKET.

Quote :

"You are an idiot if you think more guns equal less violence. I mean really? How in the hell can you even make that assertion?"

Well, if government statistics on crime and gun ownership are any indication, I'd say that my points are well supported.

Quote :

"You should be able to have your guns, just not the ones that are used primarily for crime."

Well, cars are used in crime. Take them all away. Knives are used in crime. Take all knives away. Broomsticks are used in crimes. Take all broomsticks away

11/3/2007 6:44:28 PM

Quote :

"Well, if government statistics on crime and gun ownership are any indication, I'd say that my points are well supported."

What about most Western countries (with much more restrictive gun laws) having 1/10th of the murder and armed robbery rate of the US?

11/3/2007 7:41:38 PM

Quote :

"Nothing you could possibly say will make me change my mind that super-deadly weapons have absolutely no positive purpose for existing."

IMStoned420

Please define "super-deadly weapons."

11/5/2007 6:04:24 AM

^^ yes, because clearly we can equate those countries w/ the US. clearly there are no cultural differences whatsoever between them and us...

11/5/2007 9:07:16 PM

Quote :

"nice logical fallacy there, fucktard. It's ok, when you are in a battle of wits against someone and all you have is a toothpick, it's understandable to run away. "

were your points in reference to illegal firearms only or all firearms in general?

11/5/2007 10:58:13 PM

eh?

11/6/2007 6:01:30 PM

Quote :

"yes, because clearly we can equate those countries w/ the US. clearly there are no cultural differences whatsoever between them and us..."

Because we have a gun culture fed by the easy availability of illegal firearms? Or is this your thinly veiled attempt at saying its because we have blacks.

11/6/2007 6:15:16 PM

actually, race has absolutely nothing to do with it. While race may exacerbate it by increasing tension, the problem certainly can't be linked to any specific race or group of races. Rather, I meant that there is something different about American culture that likely has more effect on our violent crime statistics than simply the availability of guns. If we were somehow able to completely rid our country of guns, I think that violent crime rates would remain unchanged. The only difference would be what weapon was used in the crimes. Personally, I think that our country as a whole has devalued personal responsibility, and that plays a large role in our violent crime statistics, as well as plenty of other things.

Take alcohol, for instance. We have restrictive laws concerning alcohol consumption, and yet we have a lot of people using it irresponsibly. But, if we look at Europe, they have far less restrictive laws, and people are more responsible with alcohol. If we adopted Europe's laws concerning alcohol, though, I don't think our society would end up with the same results, because our culture glorifies drunken debauchery in some respects, especially in the media and entertainment industries.

So it is with guns and violent crime. Something in our culture is different, and it leads us to care more about ourselves than about others, I'd say. The end result is that we have more violent crime, and what implements were available for use in the crime would never effect the incidence of violent crime in any meaningful way.

11/6/2007 8:22:33 PM

aaronburro, lately you've been saying a lot of things that not only make sense, but that I also agree with. WTF man? I dunno if I can handle this. Now I might have to consider a petition to remove you from my designated "batshit crazy" list

In all seriousness, nice post, particularly this:

Quote :

"Personally, I think that our country as a whole has devalued personal responsibility, and that plays a large role in our violent crime statistics, as well as plenty of other things. "

As a liberal it pains me to say this, but I think you're absolutely right. The pendulum historically has swung in favor of punishing the criminal with less to no regard for the circumstances. Now it seems political correctness has shoved the pendulum in the other direction.

Take public schools for example. What happens when too many students fail a course? Everyone assumes it's the teacher's fault. troublemaking kids get Ritalin shoved down their throats. Quiet kids get hopped up on Prozac. As a student teacher I couldn't assign lunch detention (due to the short lunch period), after school detention (kids can't get home), or send them to the office (which had better things to do than deal with kids who were being "disruptive"). I was instead told to "deal with it." I couldn't assign them more HW b/c "too many of them had jobs." I couldn't refuse to give the lesson when they were disruptive b/c I'd gte behind and get yelled at for that. "They have to be prepared for and pass their EOCs, otherwise this school will get shut down by No Child Left Behind." There's a very good reason I'm not currently teaching right now... and that's it...

In short, personal responsibility and consideration of the circumstances have to go hand in hand.

Quote :

"This is purely speculation. Alcohol exploded because it was so easy to make. If you make certain guns illegal you completely take them out of the hands of everyone because they stop making them. The people trying to get them in would have them, but that would actually give our police some real crime to fight."

I've found lately I've completely reversed my stance on guns. Legislating morality is, in general, an exercise in futility. In this case, I find trying to outlaw guns no more effective than trying to stop terrorism by sitting our troops in Iraq and rooting them out village to village. You're attacking the problem the wrong way, and inflaming it in the process.

I'll say more on this later...

[Edited on November 7, 2007 at 6:48 PM. Reason : ed]

11/7/2007 6:44:29 PM