wait a second i thought there was a minimum speed for highways...isn't it usually 15-20 under the speed limit?

7/2/2008 2:54:37 PM

usually I see 15mph under as the minimum

7/2/2008 3:03:52 PM

so i wonder how they can give him a ticket if he was at or above the min speed

7/2/2008 3:50:14 PM

I dont know what the rule is in all states so I'm not sure. The whole he'll drive 51 from now on thing doesnt make sense to me because that means at 50 he was breaking the law but at 51 he was not? meaning no matter whether the law there is 15 or 20 mph under the speed limit the speed limit was 66 or 71? lol.

I mean its stupid to drive that slow on the highway really but the numbers dont add up for me either. Any state I know of that has the 15mph minimum under the limit usually has signs at some point on the interstate saying "Speed Limit 65 Minimum Speed 50" or something to that effect which to me would mean he is not breaking the law until he is 16 under.

[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 3:55 PM. Reason : ]

7/2/2008 3:52:44 PM

my time is far more valuable to me than whatever savings comes from driving 15 below the speed limit. even if i spend said time doing jack shit, i'd rather do that than drive.

but i guess if your hobby is saving gas and being a douche on the highway, then it's a win-win situation.

7/2/2008 4:00:13 PM

i really dont think that going the speed limit in a far right hand lane is being a douche. And the biggest gains come from city driving anyways, where a lot of times the amount of time I save by driving more aggressively is <5 mins. That small amount of time is easily expendable in exchange for saving money.

7/2/2008 4:05:39 PM

^It's not, it's only when its a highway with 2 lanes in each direction that it starts to suck. If the person is going slow enough then normal traffic can bypass around you, but in essence it's still effectively blocking 50% of the highway. It's when 18 wheelers, construction trucks, or soccer moms feel the need to go the same speed or close to it beside you in the left lane that sucks.

For city traffic in 4 lanes it would improve mpg's probably the most of all scenarious, so long as it isnt on the smaller 2 lane streets. There's been numerous times I've been held up by someone going 20-25 down streets with 35 or 45 mph just to snag the light that I could've easily gone through without speeding. I'm glad they're saving gas and taking their time, but damn lemme get around ya so I can get on with my life. I'm not always in a rush but it makes it a hell of a lot more stressful to wait 4 or 5 minutes at notoriously bad lights, multiple times, because someone has all the time in the world and makes me wait with them.

7/2/2008 4:32:19 PM

right I can understand that. personally Ive only been doing this with city driving. 99% of the time that I am on a highway now (since I moved and dont need the highway hardly at all to get anywhere in town) im going long distance of say 2-4 hours and I pretty much go with traffic because thats too much time to give away

7/2/2008 4:47:25 PM

http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/SavingandDebt/SaveonaCar/Get50MpgInYourOwnCar.aspx

read an article on this earlier this week!

7/2/2008 5:04:21 PM

Quote :

"hypermiling is just a fancy word for driving conservatively.. except for those morons that tailgate or turn their car of while going down hills, effectively losing all the advantages of power steering and power brakes. funny thing is that a lot of fuel injection systems cut fuel all together when in gear/off throttle, so they could just be coasting down in gear and getting the same effect on mileage."

engine braking to a stop makes sense. engine braking to just accelerate again does not.

the prius makes use of engine braking under your proposed idea in a useful way (to charge a battery). Your proposal in a conventional car just slows the car down . The car will then need to accelerate again.

When coming to a stop i engine brake;however, when attempting to maintain a speed I do not. I dont have tons of data on the pro's and con's beyond my crude MPG meter I built. This entire concept was covered a couple pages ago.

Also my car does not have power steering.


I'm baffled by the fact that people think to get decent mileage you're forced to go 15mph under the speed limit. That's absurd.



[Edited on July 2, 2008 at 6:10 PM. Reason : .]

7/2/2008 6:06:42 PM

Quote :

"except for those morons that tailgate "

Reminded me of that Myth Busters episode where they draft the 18-wheeler and it makes a good bit of difference. If anyone has gotten behind a 18-wheeler before you can actually feel the car being sucked into the vortices created by the wake of the truck (not recommending it, just saying).

7/2/2008 11:33:45 PM

wow there's a lot of anger on NC roads.

7/3/2008 4:51:17 AM

how close do you have to be to draft an 18 wheeler?

7/3/2008 10:21:02 AM

http://tinyurl.com/5kx7p9

[Edited on July 3, 2008 at 10:43 AM. Reason : tinyurl]

7/3/2008 10:42:50 AM

Quote :

"To test this myth, the build team procured a car, a big rig, and a device that could measure a car's fuel efficiency. They then drove the car behind a moving big rig at various distances ranging from 100 to 2 feet and measured the amount of fuel the car consumed. The Build Team discovered that the closer the car was to the big rig, the less drag is produced, thus the more fuel saved. At just ten feet, the car managed to increase its fuel efficiency by 40%. Drafting at two feet was slightly lower than the ten foot distance, mainly because Grant had to keep working the car pedal to maintain distance from the truck. However, that did not dispute the fact that drafting actually can increase your car's fuel efficiency. However, the Build Team has warned that drafting is incredibly dangerous because the truck driver may not be able to see you and you may not be able to react in time if the truck were to make a sudden stop."

40% increase in fuel efficiency is pretty good. I think 10 feet would piss some people off though.

7/3/2008 10:46:17 AM

a rig has a lot more inertia than the average person's automobile. i wouldn't think sudden stops would be an issue.

7/3/2008 10:52:53 AM

i think truckers get pissed when youre any closer then 5 car lengths. i wouldnt go any closer in my car because i would fit right under the rear bumper up to my windshield

[Edited on July 3, 2008 at 12:48 PM. Reason : no fly zone!]

7/3/2008 12:47:45 PM

^Agreed. If you are too close then a trucker may also not see you and thus never know you were there. So if you did go to pass them, you might get sideswipped.

^^Stopping distance is based soley on speed and friction coefficient.

[Edited on July 3, 2008 at 1:02 PM. Reason : ]

7/3/2008 1:00:19 PM

the best thing i've done so far is take a 5 speed car and get to the highest gear without lugging the engine.

no effort.

[Edited on July 3, 2008 at 1:04 PM. Reason : drafting is fun though, my MPG guage reads over 100mpg when behind a truck.]

7/3/2008 1:04:11 PM

^nice. So how would someone go about getting one of these MPG meters for cheap? On a 94 5-speed civic?

7/3/2008 1:51:04 PM

jewmiling-

must drive 5mph slower pissing everyone off in order to save 20 cents to buy ramen noodles for dinner!

[Edited on July 3, 2008 at 1:58 PM. Reason : k]

7/3/2008 1:57:58 PM

Are ramen noodles kosher?

7/3/2008 1:59:26 PM

^^better than driving around in some gas guzzling V8 as you stop at every red light in town and dont have room to get it above like 55mph. really making good use of that engine!

and if driving the SPEED LIMIT pisses people off, im glad. that is their own fault really. Unless it is a two lane road and you are holding up a line, or you are sitting in the passing lane, there is nothing wrong with going the speed limit.


Also, my car normally gets about 18mpg in the city. I've only gotten it up to around 25mpg so far..not bad but not as good as some people, even with that im saving about $20 every other week on my city driving which is over $500 a year.

And in response to making fun of people for scrimping on food. I recently (about a month ago) switched from eating lunch in my work cafeteria ($5-6) to bringing my own sandwich or wrap + apple and drink (~$2) and instead of buying fast food or going out for dinner ($6-7) making dinner for about $2 as well (pasta or rice ($0.70) with tuna or some talapia and a drink). Ive saved about $240 in the last month. If I keep this up for a year I'll save close to $3000.

So I mean, you don't have to subscribe to what I am doing. But saying LOL save 20cents! is pretty ignorant here...saving almost $4000 a year isn't too laughable.

[Edited on July 3, 2008 at 2:14 PM. Reason : ]

7/3/2008 2:01:22 PM

Shoot, I thought this thread was about hyphymiling

7/3/2008 2:11:58 PM

Quote :

"jewmiling- must drive 5mph slower pissing everyone off in order to save 20 cents to buy ramen noodles for dinner! "

Quote :

"I'm baffled by the fact that people think to get decent mileage you're forced to go 15mph under the speed limit. That's absurd. "

[Edited on July 3, 2008 at 4:27 PM. Reason : .]

7/3/2008 4:27:29 PM

I followed a hypermiler home from work today. I wanted to kill them.

7/3/2008 4:28:49 PM

So what about "Hypomiling"? How low can you guys go? If i red line every time i'm sure i could get under 20mpg in my civic.

7/3/2008 4:32:48 PM

Quote :

"so i wonder how they can give him a ticket if he was at or above the min speed"

haven't read this page..but if it's a hazard, he can be ticketed. kind of similar to a dumbass driving 55 on icy roads.. sure the speed limit is 65, but he can still be ticketed for going an "unsafe" speed

[Edited on July 3, 2008 at 4:47 PM. Reason : ^bitch i got 12MPG REGULARLY in the tahoe]

7/3/2008 4:47:12 PM

damn i don't know if i could get that low. Maybe with 4 people in the car, AC and subs on.

7/3/2008 4:56:26 PM

Quote :

"jewmiling- must drive 5mph slower pissing everyone off in order to save 20 cents to buy ramen noodles for dinner!"

What the fuck

7/3/2008 6:41:09 PM

i still don't think ramon is kosher.

7/3/2008 10:02:58 PM

These fuckers are everywhere now I just end up w/ road rage and use as much gas as they save, if not more

7/3/2008 10:20:05 PM

it's only going to get worse!

7/3/2008 10:47:25 PM

Quote :

"Stopping distance is based soley on speed and friction coefficient."

I took statics as well. But inertia does play a part. There's theoretical, then there's real world factors.

I'd like to see the distance a loaded, or hell even an empty rig with a trailer, going from 65-0 in an emergency and what my truck or car could do. Pretty damn sure almost every time I'd be able to stop faster and in shorter distance than him, unless he just happened to slam into a wall. Then again if I was behind him I would be travelling a good 20 to 30 feet for more reaction time.

http://www.batesville.k12.in.us/physics/PhyNet/Mechanics/Kinematics/BrakingDistData.html

[Edited on July 4, 2008 at 2:50 AM. Reason : here's an old one, lol 'kinematics of tailgating']

7/4/2008 2:38:31 AM

^you might be surprised, especially with an empty rig that has a braking system designed to stop many tons of additional weight within a reasonable distance. obviously it's going to vary a lot between manufacturers just like autos, but massive air brakes at each hub on the tractor and trailer and 18 healthy contact patches they'll bleed speed in a real hurry. don't forget that most otr rigs have engine (jake) brakes as well.

you've also got to give the big trucks struggling to make a pass in the left lane some patience. 90% of the time, if they could get around whatever they're passing any faster, they would. the fact is most trucks don't have the power to go much over the speed limit, they're loaded heavy and hit a grade, or they're governed to 70mph or so by a fuel cut or gearing. usually it's only the owner/operators or smaller independent companie's rigs that have the balls to really hump it down the highway.

as for drafting, if you want to piss a truck driver off in a real hurry, go for it. most will back you off of them pretty quick hitting the trailer brakes or jake. neither of which activate the brake lights. the nicer ones will just slow to a little under the speed limit so you get bored and go around. the handful real nice ones just say nasty things about you on the cb.

7/4/2008 5:37:46 AM

^

I've never had any of them do that. Well I have had one go slower, but thats the entire goal and puts the OMG GOING UNDER THE SPEEDLIMIT TO AFFORD RAMEN on his shoulders.

I get so far back people get in between me in the truck though. I'm sure im technically drafting, but im not drafting.

7/4/2008 10:28:17 AM

^^^Oh yea I mean there are a ton of factors that will affect the stopping distance, I mean you could put performance brakes on a car and reduce the stopping distance. Just from that link you posted, you can see a 70% increase in stopping distance due to hot brakes. The point is that this kind of driving (drafting, cutting off your ignition, all other dangerous ways etc) could work for you for years and years, but it only takes that one time to make Darwin proud.

7/4/2008 6:06:05 PM

I have yet to encounter a hypermiler on the road, but speaking as someone who occasionally drives an ambulance, I have to say the last thing the general public needs is one more thing to complicate driving. Forget all the potentially unsafe "advanced techniques", I'm sure I will soon come on to the scene of an accident where someone ran into a biker because they were staring intently at their mpg gauge.

[Edited on July 4, 2008 at 10:40 PM. Reason : ]

7/4/2008 10:40:24 PM

I still fail to see how people justify seeing someone driving slower than them on the highway as a personal affront.

If you are in such a hurry you should have left five minutes earlier.

7/5/2008 2:42:25 AM

^^

Unlike their radio, speedometer, or cell phone?

Are you F#&(Ing serious?

I don't get why there is so much negative energy devoted to getting better mileage. Everyone sits here and fucking complains but the moment anyone tries to actively do anything about it it's nothing but complaints.

Let's get them in one place :

1) I'm tired of people driving 15 mph under the speed limit
2) Neutral rolling saves you no gas
3) I would rather pay 10$ a gallon then ride in an ugly car
4) People are distracted and will hit people on bikes
5) It only saves you a marginal amount. Like XXX.XX (make up a random number with no data backing it)
6) Traffic will be caused by a slow driver, which will cause everyone else to use more gas when they mysteriously miss stop lights
7) I will pass you in my evo or the 8.0 liter engine in my truck

Now instead of coming up with your own shitty ideas. You can just post this block. Feel free to add to it.

7/5/2008 8:11:31 AM

It's actually quite LIKE the radio or cell phone. The more things distracting a driver at the same time the greater the risk. Unfortunately, too many people become unsafe drivers when they have their attention focused on the phone, text messaging, or whatever. Not every driver, but too many drivers. I agree if you want to safely change the way you drive to save some gas that is your choice. Most people won't be hugely inconvenienced as long as those who choose to drive slower adhere to general rules of traffic etiquette.

I have to wonder though ... if your reasons are purely economical, the amount of money you save on gas by driving slower, coasting, etc. has to be looked at in relation to how much longer you spend driving. This is just rough numbers off the top of my head and I'm not great at math, but if you just graduated and are making say $50K per year or about $25/hr, then if hypermiling adds 15 minutes to your daily commute you could make about 6 bucks during that extra time spent driving. That is $30 over a work week, or about half of what it takes to fill up my 16 gallon tank at current gas prices. If your hypermiling techniques are increasing your gas mileage to only 1.5 times what you get by driving normally, at a once per week fill-up rate it seems to be a wash. This does leave out driving outside of the daily work commute, but it seems like you could just be at work being more productive.

[Edited on July 5, 2008 at 3:27 PM. Reason : ]

7/5/2008 3:25:55 PM

Quote :

"if you just graduated and are making say $50K per year or about $25/hr, then if hypermiling adds 15 minutes to your daily commute you could make about 6 bucks during that extra time spent driving."

except if like most jobs acquired after college, its salaried.

7/5/2008 4:02:09 PM

Some of the guys in my office were talking about this so I gave it a shot. One problem that I've had is that my car is already fuel-efficient (42mpg highway) and a few times, I've had big trucks floor it just to pass me just to run into a red light. So I may be helping my mpg, but not the overall mpg.

7/5/2008 5:03:33 PM

^^ Very true. I don't know how well that analogy stretches to being 15 minutes more productive per day, as I don't think you would see an equivalent increase in opportunity for advancement, etc. It's more like is an hour of leisure time worth 25 bucks to you.

7/5/2008 5:22:00 PM

Quote :

"I have to wonder though ... if your reasons are purely economical, the amount of money you save on gas by driving slower, coasting, etc. has to be looked at in relation to how much longer you spend driving. This is just rough numbers off the top of my head and I'm not great at math, but if you just graduated and are making say $50K per year or about $25/hr, then if hypermiling adds 15 minutes to your daily commute you could make about 6 bucks during that extra time spent driving. That is $30 over a work week, or about half of what it takes to fill up my 16 gallon tank at current gas prices. If your hypermiling techniques are increasing your gas mileage to only 1.5 times what you get by driving normally, at a once per week fill-up rate it seems to be a wash. This does leave out driving outside of the daily work commute, but it seems like you could just be at work being more productive."

I dont get paid to drive. I dont get paid anymore money to be to work 2 minutes faster. Time isnt money when the time used isnt making me money. I'm not working a second job during that 15 minutes.

Try again?

Are we in general agreement that driving "slower" is the legal speed limit?

[Edited on July 6, 2008 at 11:10 AM. Reason : .]

7/6/2008 11:07:10 AM

i slowed down, started accelerating easier, and started coasting a lot and have increased my mpgs 25%

went from 16 mpg to 20 mpg in my 98 dakota 3.9L

4wd is killer

7/6/2008 11:17:40 AM

Quote :

" It's actually quite LIKE the radio or cell phone. The more things distracting a driver at the same time the greater the risk"

like I said before, I generally consider myself a very conservative/aware driver, but I feel like I am even MORE conscious of my surroundings on the road when I am "hypermiling" simply because it requires the attention to actually carry this out as efficiently as possible. And if driving the speed limit is distracting to other drivers that really isnt my problem unless I am on a 2 way road and people are piling up behind me.

And yea...the example of getting paid less. Maybe if we were in HS working at the mall. Fortunately most of us are not hourly wage employees anymore.

7/7/2008 9:38:01 AM

I think the first rule applies here: just don't be a dumbass.

7/7/2008 3:21:30 PM

http://www.wbaltv.com/money/16815050/detail.html

pretty good article summing up the normal hypermilers and pointing out the unsafe ones.

7/8/2008 7:58:17 AM

set 'em up

7/8/2008 8:12:52 AM