3

6/17/2008 11:38:02 PM

Quote :

" Do I think an Obama administration, coupled with a Democratic controlled Congress, will be completely draconian in gun right restriction? Not really--the political fallout wouldn't be worth it even if they wanted to do it. Do I think more restriction could be coming down the line with such a political landscape in place? Hell yeah I do, if they think there's any call for it at all."

I agree, we very well may see a restriction on hi-cap mags.....in califor...nvm.

I'm of the mindset that while we may see more limitations on assualt weapons, hi-cap autoloader mags, longer waiting periods ect. get passed in some states under a democratic president and congress, the far right of american politics is more likely to outright strip people of their right to own guns.

6/17/2008 11:53:55 PM

how on earth would that fly in the GOP?

i mean, you don't have to tell me that the Grand Old Party has all but abandoned their Grand Old Principles, but I just don't see the right being the ones to really take away lots of 2nd Amendment freedom.

6/17/2008 11:57:14 PM

I just believe it's more likely we'll lose our gun rights via some far right military suppression of the civilian population. I'm not sure the term constitutionalist applies to too many republicans leaders nowadays. Don't get me wrong, there are some elected democratics with ridiculous views on gun ownership, but they are far outweighed by the ones with a more level headed approach to issue of gun control. I really don't think the rebulican line about democrats taking all of our guns away is anything more than election year bs that, sadly, has gotten many a vote for them in the past. Call me naive, but I just don't think we have any more of a chance of losing our second admendment rights when voting for a liberal than we do when voting for a conservative. You're not going to see any retarded laws affecting responsible gun ownership.....unless you live in california, but then it's your fault for voting in the dumbasses which california always manages to elect.

6/18/2008 12:31:43 AM

I would say this is the equivalent of a ~2007 sign at a gas station that said "Bush Sale"...a business trying to earn an extra buck off of current events and consumer relevance

Go into a gunshop sometime and ask someone who works there what they think would happen to sales, etc if a democrat was elected president

6/18/2008 2:19:44 AM

Quote :

"I would say this is the equivalent of a ~2007 sign at a gas station that said "Bush Sale""

i dont live in the same america as you apparently....thats a rightwing loon kinda comment right there

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 2:25 AM. Reason : .]

6/18/2008 2:25:04 AM

no its not, its an advertising method that would use someone's fear/concern to promote buying their product

6/18/2008 2:28:15 AM

do you have pix?

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 2:45 AM. Reason : never seen this]

6/18/2008 2:45:06 AM

Quote :

"the far right of american politics is more likely to outright strip people of their right to own guns."

This is nonsense.

I can't think of another word to describe it.

6/18/2008 2:54:10 AM

so, without reading the thread, is there really any debate at all against the fact this was a bunch of rednecks having a good laugh over the thought of assassinating obama, and making a profit over it?

it's pretty much plain as day this has nothing to do with obama's stance on gun control, and has everything to do with racist bigots making [hopefully] empty threats.

if you debate this at all, you are either completely delusional or fucking retarded.

6/18/2008 9:10:37 AM

i'm sure jimmy123 has been to plenty of gun shows

is that where you bought the race card that you're pulling?

6/18/2008 11:06:59 AM

^^Yes. Jesus Christ. That's exactly what it was.

You are a goddamned retard.

[Edited on June 18, 2008 at 12:25 PM. Reason : ^^ how in the hell are you idiots coming to this conclusion?]

6/18/2008 12:25:16 PM

Quote :

"I would say this is the equivalent of a ~2007 sign at a gas station that said "Bush Sale"..."

# of leaders assassinated with gas = 0

Quote :

"i'm sure jimmy123 has been to plenty of gun shows"

Maybe not, but I have and I completely agree with him.

Quote :

"is that where you bought the race card that you're pulling?"

1) You're hilarious.

2) You right, no one in america is scared of a black person becoming president.

6/18/2008 4:13:18 PM

Did you ask the guy what the sign meant? Since you were there and all and had the opportunity? Or are you speculating?

Also I love your important stats like "# of leaders assassinated with gas"

When Kennedy and Lincoln and McKinley and Garfield were assassinated, is it because they were black? Maybe because somebody made a "Garfield Sale" sign at a gun show?

btw I've been to plenty of gun shows as well, and I completely disagree with both of you...so there goes that argument

You're just as guilty of pulling the race card yourself it appears...any time anything anti-Obama gets in the news (even if its just a harmless sign to drum up some business off of peoples' fears of a dem president enacting stricter gun laws) its clearly a bunch of racist rednecks who dont like Obama because he's black

6/18/2008 4:19:23 PM

Quote :

"When Kennedy and Lincoln and McKinley and Garfield were assassinated, is it because they were black?"

Quote :

"Booth was a member of the prominent 19th century Booth family of actors from Maryland. He was also a Confederate sympathizer and expressed vehement dissatisfaction with the South's defeat in the Civil War. He opposed Lincoln's proposal to extend voting rights to recently emancipated slaves."

Please to read any 5th grade history book.

Quote :

"Also I love your important stats like "# of leaders assassinated with gas""

Yeah, that was in response to you ridiculously trying to equate a bush sale on GAS PRICES to an Obama sale sign on rifle ammo.

6/18/2008 4:26:20 PM

ok so you've given a half ass excuse for Lincoln (since he wasnt black and you know...stayed alive for a couple years after the emancipation proclamation)...how about Garfield, McKinley or JFK? Were they all killed by former friends of Robert Byrd too? Or are you just continuing to pull the race card? If Hillary were the nominee and that guy made a "Hillary Sale" sign, would it be because he was a bloodthirsty misogynist and he was scared that there might be a woman president?

I'd say its a sign of a pretty weak intellect and a very weak handle on race relations when you can't accept a (half) Black candidate getting any kind of criticism without pointing to race as the cause

6/18/2008 4:28:46 PM

Quote :

"# of leaders assassinated with gas = 0"

So do you have a statistic for the number of leaders assassinated with Winchester White Box rifle ammo

Quote :

"Maybe not, but I have and I completely agree with him. "

You really think this was an assassination joke? Seriously? You think that this guy, who's livelihood relies one 1) him being not in jail and 2) his customers being not in jail and 3) his name not being associated with assassinations, is making an assassination joke, rather than playing off of the (not unreasonable) concerns that a democrat president with a history of voting for gun control and a democrat controlled congress might equal new gun ownership restrictions

Quote :

"You right, no one in america is scared of a black person becoming president."

Probably, but those folks aren't vendors at gun shows, they're too busy building bunkers in their back yard and rehearsing their german.

6/18/2008 10:02:06 PM

not much surprises me anymore, but i still just can't even wrap my brain around how anyone could conceive of or buy into this dumbshit idea that it was a joke about assassination.

6/19/2008 12:22:23 AM

Quote :

"Probably, but those folks aren't vendors at gun shows, they're too busy building bunkers in their back yard and rehearsing their german. "

Racists are far more common and typical than that. Have you forgotten steve###s?

6/19/2008 12:49:34 AM

like all the racists in this thread..."I JUST KNOW THOSE FUCKIN INBRED REDNECK IDIOTS ARE UP TA SUMTHIN"

6/19/2008 1:22:11 AM

What do you expect when you have Obama's name on a box of ammo?

All a black has to do is eat some watermelon and it sets off the racists.

6/19/2008 1:25:29 AM

how about any of these?





do any of these offend you? they're only about 1000x more definitive in their meaning...care to explain these?

6/19/2008 1:33:06 AM

leftwing loons?

6/19/2008 1:34:40 AM

^^ Huh> What's that have to do with racism?

6/19/2008 2:59:17 AM

Quote :

"So do you have a statistic for the number of leaders assassinated with Winchester White Box rifle ammo"

Well how's about we simplify matters some.

Number of presidents assassinated with anything that's not bullets: 0

Number of presidents assassinated with bullets: 4 (off the top of my head, I think that's all...still and all, < 0)

Quote :

"You think that this guy, who's livelihood relies one 1) him being not in jail and 2) his customers being not in jail and 3) his name not being associated with assassinations"

I think that not everyone is led around on such a tight leash by their livelihood as you think. John Wilkes Booth's career didn't depend on the existence of slavery. In fact, his death in the aftermath of Ford's Theater rather put a damper on his career.

I also think that, if he is led around by that concept:

1 dead customer < many other customers who continue to be allowed to purchase firearms because there's no democrat in charge;

and also, that like-minded backwoods illiterate proto-hiterlite fucktards might be more likely to buy guns from a guy that shares their views on negroes in office, thereby promoting his business

Quote :

"ather than playing off of the (not unreasonable) concerns that a democrat president with a history of voting for gun control and a democrat controlled congress might equal new gun ownership restrictions"

Even if all that comes to past, it wouldn't for weeks, more likely months, after he was inaugurated, let alone elected.

Quote :

"Probably, but those folks aren't vendors at gun shows, they're too busy building bunkers in their back yard and rehearsing their german."

You fucking wish. steve9194 isn't the only white-collar fascist who manages to blend in well with society when he's not on a message board. Hang out in the real world for a little while, why don't you. Hell, call me up and we'll take a trip down to Sophia, North Carolina, where I'm from. I'll show you plenty of people who want Obama dead and who don't own bunkers, aren't crazy survivalist, and wouldn't know "ja" from "nein" if you gave them a goddamn kraut phrasebook

Quote :

"they're only about 1000x more definitive in their meaning...care to explain these?"

Those people are assholes, and I don't like them, but they're also not assholes with boxes of bullets sitting in front of them while they talk.

[Edited on June 19, 2008 at 3:14 AM. Reason : ]

6/19/2008 3:13:30 AM

Quote :

"not much surprises me anymore, but i still just can't even wrap my brain around how anyone could conceive of or buy into this dumbshit idea that it was a joke about assassination."

you can't tell me the thought that this would be interpreted by others as an assassination joke did not cross the guy's mind when he wrote it. nobody can prove it either way, but sometimes you just have to use your intuition. if you really can't wrap your brain around that, you're being naive.

6/19/2008 10:23:35 AM

Quote :

"Huh> What's that have to do with racism?"

They're signs that blatantly and unequivocally call for the assassination of the president...the signs cannot possibly be misinterpreted...wheres your outrage? is it ok since Bush is white? seems like as offended as you are at the 'obama sale' sign which many believe is simply playing on peoples fears of democrat enacted gun laws, you'd be more offended when something so literal is on a sign talking about our current President...why the double standard?

Obama sign - possible underlying hate message
Bush sign(s) - definite unequivocal hate message

Quote :

"Those people are assholes, and I don't like them, but they're also not assholes with boxes of bullets sitting in front of them while they talk."

does their sign say "KILL OBAMA" or "DEATH TO WORLDS #1 TERRORIST PIG OBAMA AND HIS SHEEP"? who cares if they are at a gun show selling ammo or not?

sign #1:

"OBAMA SALE"

sign #2:

"KILL BUSH"

according to people in this thread, sign #1 is infinitely more offensive

btw I'd love to hear lafta's take on the Bush signs

6/19/2008 10:30:17 AM

Quote :

"you can't tell me the thought that this would be interpreted by others as an assassination joke did not cross the guy's mind when he wrote it. "

dude

i currently own 3 firearms. I've owned numerous others in the past. I have no idea how many times I've spent an afternoon at a firing range. I've been shooting guns since I was probably 12 or so, and I've probably shot three or four dozen different types of firearms, from .22 revolvers up to fully automatic, belt-fed grenade launchers. I can strip an M-16 or AR-15 down to a pile of parts in about 20-30 seconds. I've disassembled and assembled a 1911, a SIG, a Beretta, several military machine guns, and several hunting rifles. I know all sorts of useless trivia, as well as a lot of "firearms science". By most any measure, I could be classified as a "gun nut", and feel like I have a pretty decent feel for a lot of similar firearm enthusiasts.

The idea that the sign in question was referring to shooting Sen. Obama rather than just saying "buy now before the Democrats restrict the shit more" is something that never even crossed my mind.

The first few times I saw it mentioned in this thread, I thought it was just people trying to be funny. I had no idea that so many people were ridiculous enough to honestly think that. It's the sort of thing that I could maybe envision some really fringe nut-job thinking, with everyone else roling their eyes.

Yes, there are a handful of freakshows out there who also happened to be all about some guns. Those people are a minority, though. Go to a range sometime--it's mostly a bunch of regular people who just like to shoot.

Finally, no, there is no way that I can conclusively prove what the sign was intended to mean, and of course, neither can you or anyone else. However, the assassination thing is a stretch--it's certainly not the most reasonable, logical explanation.

[Edited on June 19, 2008 at 10:54 AM. Reason : asdfasd]

6/19/2008 10:51:49 AM

Quote :

"seems like as offended as you are at the 'obama sale' sign which many believe is simply playing on peoples fears of democrat enacted gun laws, you'd be more offended when something so literal is on a sign talking about our current President...why the double standard?"

Huh? Have you even been reading this thread? Because I said back on page 1:

Quote :

"I initially interpreted the sign the way treetwista did"

- http://www.brentroad.com/message_topic.aspx?topic=529636&page=1#11693003

And in any case, we were talking about racism, not people hating Bush, or hate in general (or at least I wasn't). You might as well have pulled out pictures of Hitler and ask "where's your outrage?"

Quote :

"The idea that the sign in question was referring to shooting Sen. Obama rather than just saying "buy now before the Democrats restrict the shit more" is something that never even crossed my mind."

That implicitly admits though that their boy McCain is a loser, why would someone want to publicly advertise this?

[Edited on June 19, 2008 at 12:41 PM. Reason : ]

6/19/2008 12:40:13 PM

maybe McCain isn't really "their boy"

or maybe they're just being realistic...I think it will be close, but how many people would REALLY expect McCain to beat Obama at this point? Even if you think it's neck and neck, if you think that Obama and a Dem-controlled Congress might restrict firearms more, would it not be prudent to "get while the getting's good"?

in any case, these are more reasonable explanations than "BUY MY BULLETS AND SHOOT OBAMA", even if he was just joking. That's just asinine.


...and EVEN IF you somehow believe that's what the sign meant, you're taking another leap by asserting that it's just because Obama is (half) black.

[Edited on June 19, 2008 at 12:48 PM. Reason : asdfasd]

6/19/2008 12:47:01 PM

Quote :

"we were talking about racism, not people hating Bush"

i brought up the bush signs to show how absurd this topic is...one sign says "OBAMA SALE" and its interpreted by some people as encouraging or making light of murdering Obama...then I post pictures that have people literally talking about murdering Bush with absolutely no possible other meaning, and you just kind of glance over it? An actual sign that definitely DOES talk about murdering the President? Thats no big deal to the people who are so paranoid that this is an attack on Obama because he's black?

the sad thing is all the people screaming racism and pulling the race card are doing so because of their own racism against the guy in the first pictures...OMG HE'S GOT ON A CAMOUFLAGE HAT I BET HE HATES NIGGERS

6/19/2008 12:55:18 PM

Quote :

"i brought up the bush signs to show how absurd this topic is...one sign says "OBAMA SALE" and its interpreted by some people as encouraging or making light of murdering Obama...then I post pictures that have people literally talking about murdering Bush, and you just kind of glance over it?"

That's not how threads work. If you want to see how people feel about the Bush picture, start your own thread. And in any case, if it is racism, hating Obama because he's black is different than hating Bush because you think he's bomb-happy.

Quote :

"the sad thing is all the people screaming racism and pulling the race card are doing so because of their own racism against the guy in the first pictures...OMG HE'S GOT ON A CAMOUFLAGE HAT I BET HE HATES NIGGERS"

Well, considering no one defended him at all as an Obama supporter (except me, jokingly), then you don't really have a point. Or maybe you yourself are racists against the "redneck" race too?

6/19/2008 12:58:14 PM

Quote :

"That's not how threads work. If you want to see how people feel about the Bush picture, start your own thread"

of course not...you're not allowed to point out a glaringly blatant double standard...you must create another thread to do so

Quote :

"Well, considering no one defended him at all as an Obama supporter (except me, jokingly), then you don't really have a point."

what the hell are you talking about? why do so many people think the guy is advocating killing obama? is it because this guy looks like a dumb redneck and rednecks all want to kill black people?

like i said, its sad that all the people pulling the race card are doing so because they themselves are racist against the guy in the first pictures

6/19/2008 1:00:24 PM

Quote :

"And in any case, if it is racism, hating Obama because he's black is different than hating Bush because you think he's bomb-happy. "

Quote :

"and EVEN IF you somehow believe that's what the sign meant, you're taking another leap by asserting that it's just because Obama is (half) black. "

i mean, maybe he doesn't like Obama for policy reasons (starting with gun control, since his fucking job is to sell and work on guns).

6/19/2008 1:07:33 PM

Quote :

"...and EVEN IF you somehow believe that's what the sign meant, you're taking another leap by asserting that it's just because Obama is (half) black."

i pretty much completely hear your point otherwise, maybe i was premature to pull the trigger (pun intended) on this without understanding gun culture, but this part really isn't a leap. everybody knows this guy has a big target on his back for many reasons, which is why Hillary's Kennedy reference created such a stink. people are afraid of change, disagree with his policies, and yes, there are a lot of racists who want the guy dead rather than in the white house just because he is (half) black. this is not a stretch at all.

6/19/2008 6:07:51 PM

kinda sorta.

that part isn't a stretch--it isn't something completely unreasonable to imagine--but it is a leap of faith in that there is no real reason to believe that the man is a racist (even IF you are somehow willing to believe that far-fetched explanation of his sign). I mean, sure, it could be the caes--I am just not spring-loaded to make that accusation of people without at least some indication of it being the case.

Quote :

"yes, there are a lot of racists who want the guy dead rather than in the white house just because he is (half) black."

There definitely is a small handful of people who would rather see him dead than in the White House, simply because of his race. More often, it's less extreme (and sometimes more insidious). There are plenty of people who would be OK with (or would at least get over) having a black President if they agreed with his policies. However, if they already don't like him to begin with (for legitimate reasons), they tack on the racism without thinking twice.

6/20/2008 1:39:50 AM

6/24/2008 9:37:24 PM

looks like at least 5 members of the supreme court are racist whites who are scared of a black man becoming president and want citizens of DC to be able to kill him...

6/26/2008 12:29:29 PM

Quote :

"everybody knows this guy has a big target on his back for many reasons, which is why Hillary's Kennedy reference created such a stink. people are afraid of change, disagree with his policies, and yes, there are a lot of racists who want the guy dead rather than in the white house just because he is (half) black. this is not a stretch at all."

There are crazies who want every president dead for this or that reason.

I've been to gun shows. I've met some pretty out there people. I've met Randy Weaver for crying out loud, and I can't fathom any of them being dumb enough to post a sign with the implication that they were encouraging someone to assassinate a Senator. Couple this with the fact that Barack Obama on numerous occasions has stated his desire to ban all semi-automatic firearms, his desire to ban all "military calibers" and this sign isn't hard to interpret. You don't think BATFE doesn't have undercover agents in these gunshows? They're more than happy to nail you to the wall for a pointless infraction.

Why does Obama have any bigger a target on his back than George Bush? Bush has an international target on his back while Obama only has a few kooks without the organization to pull it off. I'm getting pretty sick of this perpetual drumbeat of victim-hood and danger from the left who seem all to eager to set each of their leaders up as potential martyrs to the cause.

You want ballsy? You want a target? Be a pro-Democracy dissenter in China. Be a pro-western liberal in Saudi Arabia. Crusade against corruption in Russia. But don't give me this shit that a presidential candidate with, by most polls, a 5 - 10% lead on his opponent is in any more danger than any other powerful public figure.

Jebus.

6/26/2008 1:33:00 PM

Redneck racist-ass gun nuts are more likely to shoot someone than a bunch of hippies who might at worst march around in a circle with some signs

And I'm not trying to cry racism on every non-Obama supporter, I'm just saying, you know, the Klan killed a pretty large number of people back in the day

[Edited on June 26, 2008 at 1:44 PM. Reason : .]

6/26/2008 1:42:33 PM

Quote :

"Redneck racist-ass gun nuts...the Klan killed..."

is it the mustache or the camo hat that makes all of you guys 100% positive that this guy is a "redneck racist-ass gun nut" who is in the KKK?

I mean how many racist stereotypes do you guys have to make about someone based on 2 photographs in order to feel secure in pulling the race card yourselves?

6/26/2008 1:48:29 PM

Quote :

"Redneck racist-ass gun nuts are more likely to shoot someone than a bunch of hippies"

Are they?

There hasn't been an effectively organized group of right-wing racist nuts in decades and their focus was largely on controlling their little piece of land, not overthrowing the US government.

The last president to be assassinated was killed by a man who professed to be a communist, the one before that was killed by an anarchist. The one before that was killed by a man who was enraged that he hadn't been given an ambassadorship. Only Booth could have been argued to have been a devout "right-winger".

Now, lets turn to attempts. Hinckley's attempt on Regan was simply bizzare, both of Fords assassins-to-be were leftists, one of Nixon's was a sexually frustrated virgin who wanted to prove his manhood, the other was . . . you guessed it . . . another leftist who had tried to join the Black Panthers, as a white man. The two men who tried to kill Truman were Puerto Rican independence activists and finally, rounding out the last 60 years, the man who tried to kill Roosevelt, Guiseppe Zangara, was a leftist dedicated to the death of all "capitalist presidents and kings."

Watch out for those rednecks though, I'm sure they're due.

6/26/2008 1:59:56 PM

Quote :

"Redneck racist-ass gun nuts are more likely to shoot someone than a bunch of hippies"

depends on whether you consider hippies to be communist, or puerto rican, or a virgin, etc etc etc

6/26/2008 2:04:52 PM

you're missing the point Josh. I wasn't saying that they were hippies, just that they weren't rednecks.

There is this tendency to view the left as a crowd of artsy aesthetic Peace-niks who only want to smoke their medicinal marijuana and organize drum circles. The 60s proved that the left is as capable of violence as the right and the anecdotal evidence I provided was to point out that it wasn't "right-wing nutjobs" who were out there assassinating presidents.

6/26/2008 2:14:01 PM

^ very compelling arguments... Rarity on this board.

6/26/2008 2:32:23 PM

Who ever said anything about highly organized groups? All it takes is one guy with a wild hair up his ass.

Look, all I'm saying is when you have people on Fox News saying that in a perfect world we could have Obama taken out then obviously there are people out there who are thinking about this, and only one of them has to be willing to try it. There's a reason he got security earlier than any other presidential candidate.

[Edited on June 26, 2008 at 4:02 PM. Reason : .]

6/26/2008 3:59:31 PM

Quote :

"Who ever said anything about highly organized groups?"

you're the one who brought up the Klan.

Also, He got security because he specifically asked for it and was entitled to it as a presidential candidate. It isn't like the Secret Service was sitting around saying, "If we don't save that negro, he's gonna die!" HRC already had it as a former first lady. FWIW, John Edwards specifically declined SS protection.

6/26/2008 4:05:09 PM

Quote :

"he got security earlier than any other presidential candidate."

he did? i hadnt heard this, do you have a link?

nm i found it http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18474444/

"Officials said Obama had requested the protection"

6/26/2008 4:06:59 PM

Okay, I didn't know he had requested the protection. I was under the impression whoever's in charge of those things assigned protection to him early because he was receiving a lot of death threats. My bad.

6/26/2008 5:37:42 PM

still though, i think the point is EVERY president and presidential candidate has (had) SOME person or people who want them dead...thats what happens when you have millions of people in a country...i do think the sign is playing off peoples fears...not fears of a black president though, but fears of stricter gun laws...good thing the supreme court sided with the constitution today though

6/26/2008 5:40:44 PM