yep. just like 30 years ago it was TOO LATE for the plan. what is your plan? is it going to provide a billion barrels of oil a day by next month? Or, are you telling me to power my car on tire-gauges and hopes and dreams?

8/5/2008 6:04:01 PM

Quote :

"ok, so i shoulda just left out the environmental factor and left it at "i don't support offshore oil drilling because it would take YEARS to see any of that oil and we should stop being so dependent on it for fuel"??"

So I take it you're another one of those who doesn't understand how speculation works?

8/5/2008 6:04:22 PM

I think the windfall profits idea is a good plan for RIGHT NOW. I think tapping into the emergency reserves is another.

Gas prices have already been ridiculous in most other parts of the world...for years and years and years. Thus -- smart cars were developed. People started biking.

If they can cope with prices, can't we?

[Edited on August 5, 2008 at 6:12 PM. Reason : haha thanks for catching that country/countries thing ]

8/5/2008 6:08:16 PM

Maybe but they rely on public transportation for a lot of their coping and unless you live in a major city good luck with that

EDIT: I read that as "most other countries" so pretend you said that instead ok

[Edited on August 5, 2008 at 6:10 PM. Reason : ,]

8/5/2008 6:09:53 PM

I think it's good to speculate on the far end when considering projects of this magnitude. This wouldn't be something that should be done so quickly that we forgo quality.

8/5/2008 6:10:33 PM

^^Maybe if people in large cities stopped being so selfish and thought of their fellow American citizens in the suburb/rural areas this wouldn't be so bad. What i'm trying to get at is the people of this country have one fucked up mindset.

[Edited on August 5, 2008 at 6:11 PM. Reason : ^]

8/5/2008 6:11:43 PM

The windfall profits idea is an AWFUL plan. If you don't learn from the failures of the past you are doomed to repeat them. Look up what happened last time in the late 70's. It just prolonged the crisis.

Quote :

"Gas prices have already been ridiculous in most other parts of the country...for years and years and years. Thus -- smart cars were developed. People started biking. If they can cope with prices, can't we?"

If you had said "Europe", you might have a point. Gas prices have been high in Southern California for a long time, and yet everybody has a car and nobody uses public transportation. They just spend more. On everything. And poor people get forced further into the margins of society.

8/5/2008 6:12:22 PM

^my point exactly!! selfishness consumes us.

8/5/2008 6:13:11 PM

Quote :

"I think it's good to speculate on the far end when considering projects of this magnitude. This wouldn't be something that should be done so quickly that we forgo quality."

LOL, I was referring to commodities speculators and traders. You know, the guys that Congress likes to blame for high prices whenever oil companies aren't around? Well, those guys bet on future supply and demand of oil. And if they bet that future supplies will be higher, prices go down RIGHT NOW. So guess what? If US oil companies got the approval to start drilling offshore today, prices would go down tomorrow, despite the fact that the oil wouldn't hit the market for several years.

8/5/2008 6:16:24 PM

^^^ Huh. I've heard nearly everyone bikes in parts of northern California. What are gas prices like up there?

Also, what about the land supposedly already approved for drilling?

[Edited on August 5, 2008 at 6:17 PM. Reason : drilling]

8/5/2008 6:17:09 PM

it'd be great. if they could actually fucking drill there.

8/5/2008 6:19:05 PM

to quote myself:

Quote :

"As for the smaller plots and fields they are sitting on, it's tough to drill when everytime you start a project the Sierra Club is up your ass with lawsuits."

8/5/2008 6:19:34 PM

yeah, but only temporarily. like it is now. drop a matter of cents, only to rise back up again sometime soon.

why is everyone so opposed to new inventions and alternative fuels? what's wrong with electric cars? why can't you support these?

8/5/2008 6:20:56 PM

Well as sad as it is, just that's the way things are unfortunately. While Europe based their infrastructure around rail, we based ours around cars. It worked for a while, but now we're starting to see the problems with it. I can't see any way of fixing it besides a complete infrastructure overhaul. Get more electric cars on the road, put up as many renewables as possible and get the power grid supporting them as fast as possible, etc. I know we're still going to be on oil for a while but as global demand increases I just can't see drilling being a priority of having any kind of discernible effect for the mess we're in right now.

8/5/2008 6:21:06 PM

^^ who says he doesn't support those? are those things gonna be here tomorrow? nope

^ unfortunately, nothing is really going to help us right now. that's kind of the whole point. throwing all of your eggs in the "alternatives" route sounds great, until those alternatives take 20 years to come to fruition. meanwhile, we still have no way to put gas in what we have today...

[Edited on August 5, 2008 at 6:23 PM. Reason : ]

8/5/2008 6:21:45 PM

you're the one talking about how we should have planned for the future 20 years ago...what about planning for the 20 years from now future?

I think that should be more important than the mild "suffering" we're enduring right now.

8/5/2008 6:22:51 PM

well, hey, if it's only mild "suffering," then there's no need to worry about it, right?

besides, who is to say that drilling isn't going to help us in the future? are you truly that naive?

8/5/2008 6:24:09 PM

Well I filled up yesterday so unless we ran out today....

8/5/2008 6:25:15 PM

it is only mild suffering. that's why i dont see the reason to start drilling. if we can cope, we should deal with gas prices while providing incentives for cheaper, more efficient cars to be developed. this is something that should be started ASAP. also, planning for nuclear power involvement should further.

oil should die. it's a dying fuel, and there's never going to be enough for future generations. we don't want to be viewed as the ones that fucked that up for them.

8/5/2008 6:29:03 PM

that oil will be dead in 10 years is a naive viewpoint, but, meh, you can have it.

8/5/2008 6:31:45 PM

Oil won't be dead until we can find a way to power semis and planes without it, but gas prices need to be high or everyone will forget all about cutting back and looking for alternative energies.

8/5/2008 6:33:11 PM

Quote :

"oil should die. it's a dying fuel, and there's never going to be enough for future generations."

Im curious your views on social security, medicare, and medicaid.

Jesse you seem to have a microwave generation attitude. What does your car use? Our country is built on oil and it will take time to get off of oil. Hell even Obamas own energy plan to invest in alternative energy is a ten year plan. Why not get more oil, the stuff that actually works, now and still invest in other energy?

We need to get off of foreign oil first, then worry about getting off of it all together.

btw, did you really mean that about carter? (please say no)

8/5/2008 6:34:12 PM

^so keep them high! don't drill. decent scooters cost <$800...and if more of them are on the road, what does it matter what the speed limit is?? Unless your job involves moving freight or the ABSOLUTE NEED for a large vehicle, we should be fine!!

8/5/2008 6:34:40 PM

The economy isn't fine. Construction and manufacturing isn't fine. Poor people aren't doing fine. Get real. This is a SUPPLY and DEMAND problem. Deal with it on both sides.

Quote :

"why is everyone so opposed to new inventions and alternative fuels? what's wrong with electric cars? why can't you support these?"

I support all these, but not at the expense of taxpayers. Why can't you support the use of our natural resources?

[Edited on August 5, 2008 at 6:40 PM. Reason : 2]

8/5/2008 6:38:25 PM

Quote :

"Unless your job involves moving freight or the ABSOLUTE NEED for a large vehicle, we should be fine!! "

Do you realize how all those things in the store get there? Seriously

8/5/2008 6:39:32 PM

Quote :

" Im curious your views on social security, medicare, and medicaid. "

(I'm not even going to discuss SS, it really upsets me seeing old people outliving their assets)

I hate obama's plan for society in general.

I think if people can't afford to go to college, they should take out loans like everyone else. Financial Aid should cease to exist. Because it currently does exist, the value of a bachelor's degree is becoming common place. Our generation almost HAS to go for a graduate degree in order to be "different" and a "better candidate for employment" than others.

I think companies should continue to offer health insurance plans instead of having nationalized health care. Look at SAS. Successful companies should model themselves after them. If companies don't provide it -- so what? Pay for it yourself. I don't want to pay for some illegal immigrant to go see a doctor or lower the quality of my health care as a tax-paying citizen.



[Edited on August 5, 2008 at 6:48 PM. Reason : a]

8/5/2008 6:41:10 PM

^Now you're just jumping all over the place, but I'll bite.

Have you heard the term "brain drain"? Do you realize that the majority of engineers in this country are foreign educated? There is a reason we are pushing so hard for people to go to college in this country.

Your view of healthcare is pretty naive, and this is coming from a guy that hates nationalized health care. I don't know where to start with that... your solution is no solution, just keep the status quo.

8/5/2008 6:45:43 PM

Perhaps some of you will take off the ideological blinders and think for a bit. We are the greatest country in the world and have gotten there with the mixed system we have. Prawn is also right, if we want to let our research and educational systems falter, it will be devastating for the country at large.

Our dependence on foreign workers in engineering shows a fundamental failure to invest in a secondary education system that stresses math and the sciences. Bush's No Child Left Behind is concerned more about highlighting underperforming public schools and focusing on improving HS graduation rates for the lowest performers than investing in the above average students that would be our country's engineers.

8/5/2008 6:55:07 PM

Quote :

"I'm not even going to discuss SS, it really upsets me seeing old people outliving their assets"

The irony would be that SS, itself, is mostly what is causing old people to "outlive their assets."

8/5/2008 10:55:21 PM

Don't you go shooting DNL?!

Mr. HUSSEIN doesn't like that very much. In his state they make sure only gang members can have guns.

8/6/2008 5:22:28 AM

HE'S GONNA GIVE ALL YOUR GUNS TO AL QAEDA

8/6/2008 8:48:12 AM

TroleTacks:

Quote :

" You don't act holier than thou about calling people back from vacation to vote on some some bullshit WHEN YOU COULDN'T EVEN MAKE THE VOTE ON A KEY PIECE OF YOUR VOTE GETTING PANDERING."

eyedrb:

Quote :

"Heaven fucking forbid we interupt the shitty house's 5 week vacation to have a vote on energy independence. If the bitch running things would have just allowed the vote to begin with it wouldnt be necessary. Partisan hackery? STFU"

agentlion:

Quote :

"So we've been arguing about energy independence for 30 years now, and the bill at stake wouldn't do jack shit to lower prices for a good 10 years from now, and all of a sudden the difference in 5 weeks is what's going to make-it or break-it? give me a fucking break."

today -

Quote :

" The Republicans on Capitol Hill are eagerly circulating a late July memo written by pollster John McLaughlin for Virginia Rep. Eric Cantor, the deputy GOP whip. The memo, which has not previously been written about, bluntly states, "Plenty of recent media polls demonstrate that drilling for more American oil, particularly offshore drilling, has the potential to be a very effective wedge issue for Republicans as a way to reduce the price of gas." After tapping a gusher of public polling to buttress his argument, McLaughlin concludes, "For the immediate short term, right now, forcing House Democrats to vote on drilling offshore and in wilderness areas, or exposing their refusal to hold this vote, would be a potentially strong wedge issue that would split the Democrats, win among Independents and excite the Republicans.""

http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2008/08/18/energy_plans

that, sir, is the definition of partisan hackery

8/18/2008 3:34:15 PM

What is your point?

8/18/2008 3:38:31 PM

The entire idea of offshore drilling is so popular with the public right now that the Dems are basically fucked.

8/18/2008 3:45:04 PM

lol you know repubs are in the shitter when some plan that takes 10 years to influence prices is what they consider a wedge issue

8/18/2008 3:45:33 PM

It is a wedge issue.

And it wouldn't take 10 years to affect prices.

Learn how speculation and futures markets work.

8/18/2008 3:51:32 PM

the magic bullet is a piece of garbage blender, but they've sold an assload of them

8/18/2008 3:51:59 PM

Obama's energy plan will take about 10 yrs. Whats the big deal with planning ahead? No one tell the drug industry.

8/18/2008 4:15:48 PM

Quote :

"What is your point?"

my point?

it's that you were acting like this was some kind of noble stand by the republicans in order to actually make a difference in energy policy, and we were arguing that making speeching on the Senate floor while everyone else was on a planned vacation was nothing more than political showmanship.

The memo from McLaughlin shows that yes, it was literally nothing more than political showmanship, meant to make the Dems look bad (not like they need any help with that) instead of actually getting anything done

8/18/2008 4:17:30 PM

I do think they were trying to get things done. You dont need a memo to confirm that energy independence and drilling help repubs and hurt dems.

Anyone have a memo suggesting that having a prochoice policy will help you amongs liberals?

8/18/2008 4:21:03 PM

i'll write one

more dead babies = more oil for me

8/18/2008 4:25:17 PM

dont forget less carbon footprint.

8/18/2008 4:26:43 PM

whatever works

8/18/2008 4:28:36 PM